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Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego

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Comments

  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    That appears to be copied from the article at this link: http://www.blueovalnews.com/2004/cars/fivehundred.quality092804.h- tm
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Yes, that is the "Ford Enthusiast site" they are talking about.
  • exalteddragon1exalteddragon1 Member Posts: 729
    Ford deal with the quality concerns inside the factory then through recalls.

    Remember that when toyota started its TQM in Japan, workers were stopping the line many times a day, slowing down production. But eventually they earned a high quality reputation, and the lines were not stopped as frequently anymore.

    Meybe Ford is finally going though some quality improvements on its own.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Same is occuring with the line where the 500/FS/Montego are being built. Slightest problem, and it's stopped to inspect any issues. Those quality concerns are normal for every manufacturer, and addressed by the time the vehicle is shipped out.

    I can add "concerns" to that list as well.

    I'm concerned that maybe the leather is too slippery.
    I'm concerned that maybe the carpet in the trunk shouldn't be as good as it is.
    I'm concerned that maybe there's no enough colors to choose from.
    I'm concerned that they sky might fall.
    I'm concerned about world hunger...

    See what I mean ? There's always concerns, and they are addressed immediately before being shipped. If not, they are parked in a lot and the concern is rectified before being shipped out. Last "concern" dealt with having to reprogram (Flash) the computer software, so a number of units were parked at a lot awaiting.

    Compare this to my initial 2000 LS, which requires a software "re-flash" and had a TSB issued for it, after I took delivery of it.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    This is just a typical factory gossip stuff, some based on fact, a lot based on rumor.

    In good old US UAW plants the shop guys are outspoken and willing to share their opinions.

    The Japanese based US plants hide their dirty laundry better on startup issues is the main difference.

    I'd rather Ford hold the produc to iron out the bugs rather than do it after they've sold a lot of them. Every new auto design is going to have its startup issues, and this being a completely new vehicle for Ford except for the basic engine, you can expect more than with just a freshening.
  • johnijohni Member Posts: 43
    I test drove a 500 limited w/6 speed trans and an Avalon XLS today. We'll probably spend the extra bucks for the Avalon. The Avalon has better feeling leather; the split front dash gives more spacious feeling; ride is softer; it's slightly quieter; the seats are more comfortable to my wife and me; has longer drivetrain warranty (5 yr/60k miles); and excellent reliability reputation. Plus, it has optional skid control.

    The 500 has much larger trunk; folding rear & front passenger seat backs; sits up a little higher; a little more head room. For my needs, the extra cargo space does not offset the other weaknesses versus the Avalon.

    My last 4 vehicles have been Fords - 3 Taurus and an F150 - so I was leaning toward the 500. It's a fine automobile, a lot of car for the money. But I'm concerned about quality/reliability with such a new model.

    Now I'll have to decide whether to wait for the upcoming '05 Avalon or try to get a deal on an '04.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    And the next Avalon will also be a new model, with all the relevant issues and pluses and minuses that come with that.

    As for me, I will take the AWD on the Ford and the CVT and the much larger interior and trunk, larger dealer network and easier availablity of parts and service. You might also want to compare prices of comparably equipped units.
  • corcor Member Posts: 27
    All I can say is that Ford really needs to get it's act together!! As a previous Ford owner and coming from a family who has only had one other Ford [1996 Taurus LX w/the 3.0 Duratec which was quickly replaced after the transmission failed for the 2nd time]; I really hope they have it together with the release of the 500/Montego/FS. The reason was clear why we continued to own Nissan Maxima's. My family has been die hard maxima fans owning 8 since their intro in 1981. After the Taurus and my ZX2, we'll never own another Ford product.

    While the 500 is a very nice vehicle, it's almost as if they took tracing paper and copied the Passat from VW. If they were going so far as to create the "Ford" version of the Passat, they could have at least copied the antenna as well. Is Ford really that cheap to have a front mounted antenna on the 500? It really takes away from what is overall a nicely copied design.

    Buying my VW Passat (v6 w/5spd manual) was overall a very good decision. I did think about another Maxima, but wanted something a bit different. I actually went to my local Ford dealer and parked my Passat next to the 500 and they were a spitting image of each other; with the exception of the 500 having a taller roof line and that unsightly front mounted antenna.

    I will be curious to see how the 500/FS/Montego will hold up, but with Nissan, Toyota and Honda offering better build quality, reliability and resale values; I have my doubts for the Ford/Mercury duo.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    With all due respect, it is too early to know about the Five Hundred's build quality, resale and reliability. It's a risk, admittedly.

    As for resemblance to the Passat, you should know where the chief designer of Ford Motor Company came from. Audi. Controlled by? You guessed it. VW. Still, the resemblance is not quite as strong, TO ME, as it is to you.

    I've owned Maximas. I am not NEARLY as impressed with their reliablity as you are. You see, I can tell transmission stories, too. They are about a Maxima with less than 33,000 miles.

    And, according to the most recent projected residuals, the Five Hundred retains MORE of its value after three years than will either Maxima or Altima (but not Accord).

    Just as you wouldn't buy a Five Hundred, I wouldn't think of buying a Maxima or Altima. But you don't see my posting in the Nissan forums. With all due respect, I must ask you, why are you posting here? Are you trying to warn us? Or are you feeling just a teeny, tiny bit of insecurity at not considering the Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego/Ford Freestyle?
  • mariner7mariner7 Member Posts: 509
    The joke among auto journalists is that J Mays can only draw one car shape.

    johni, next Avalon is a new model, but shouldn't have any start-up production problems. It's virtually identical to the current Camry.

    500 will take a giant leap forward in resale compared with Taurus. but to say it's going to leap over all except Accord is premature. This is what I've read: after 3 years, Accord (55%), Altima (52%), Camry (50%), 500 (48%). But big improvement, 500 is going to be in the playpen of its competitors, Taurus now is in the low 30's.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    After 12 of my friends buying Passat's and Jetta's the past few years and regreted it. If your worried about reliability, VW's are NOT the car to buy. Luckily Ford brought over J.Mays from VW to design vehicles, and improve interior quality/materials spending 3 folds, but they luckily left the the lack of dependability over in Europe.

    http://www.jdpa.com/presspass/pr/images/2004055bfull.gif
  • nedc2nedc2 Member Posts: 192
    I also note that Volvo, and Landrover are down at the bottom. I understand some of the reasons for LR's problems but was curious as to why Volvo ranks so low. I've been trying to find out the reason for Volvo's low ranking and am at a loss, do you have any info on this? Is it their over-reliance on turbocharging? I think that the S80 would be nearly perfect with the Jaguar version of the Duratec 3 litre under its hood and AWD.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    The Volvo issue is mainly the old S40 (not confused with this years newly introduced Euro Focus based S40).. It was built in an alliance with, and on an outdated Mitsubishi Charisma platform over in Belgium plant. The previous S40 was released in Europe years before, and Volvo was apprehensive of bringing over the vehicle because of it's lackluster quality/reliability. Which is evident by that link for example.

    The year prior to the S40 being released, Volvo rated in the top 3 in initial quality, to show an example. And now with the new S40, things should be back to normal.

    Turbos haven't possed an issue with them. They are actually very reliable in the industry. And they have experience with both light, and high pressure turbo's.

    LR issues stem prior to Ford buying them from BMW. Things didn't improve much when BMW aquired them, and redesigned the Range Rover. BMW...same one that has had 13+ recalls on the X5. So the Range Rover has definately received it's fair share of issues. There's a bunch of new products (with new and reliabily tested engineering) that will debut from LR soon enough. BMW didn't have SUV experience, or the resources to improve LR, hence, why they sold it to Ford.

    The S80 with the a 3.0L would require some major sub-frame reconfiguration. Since it uses an I-6, it was built to allow sufficient space for crash protection. And only a 4 speed automatic fits with the I-6 and Turbo... Placing a 3.0L in it, would equal, the 500 (which was engineered to allow for a bigger V6, as oppose to an Inline.

    Plus Ford doesn't wish to interchange engines between them. Volvo is working on a 4.4L V8 that will debut in the Xc90, and will eventually be implemented into the S80.
  • corcor Member Posts: 27
    johnclineii:

    To answer your question as to why I'm posting on here, it's just like everyone else. We're here to talk to about the 500/Montego/FS. Please don't take this as Ford "bashing". I'm simply voicing my distrust of the Ford brand. Personally, I don't see what all the hype is over the car. It’s a new Ford product that is attempting to “win-back” customers who have gone onto foreign brands.

    True, it is a risk when it comes to the quality, resale and reliability of the 500/Montego/FS but given Ford's previous track record with these issues; it's anyone’s guess.

    While the design mimics the Passat, for Ford; it is a clean design given what they currently offer. The only other Ford to actually have some style was the 1996 Taurus. The design did mimic the Infiniti J30, but at that time, there was no other domestic car like it.

    As a current student of the Art Center and in my junior year of auto design, I am aware that J. Mays is currently at FoMoCo. I applaud Ford for bringing him over.

    As far as the previous history w/the Maxima, I still have my 87 and it currently has 237k on it and it's still going. The only thing I've done outside of regular maintenance is have the transmission replaced as a precaution due the amount of miles. In addition to the 87, we also still have the 91 and the 98; both with well over 100k and NO problems along with the 2004.

    When my parents bought my Passat in 2002, the 500 were still in the testing phase so there is NO insecurity at not considering the 500.....I'm very happy with my VW.
  • johnijohni Member Posts: 43
    The interior space in Avalon and 500 are almost the same. Look at the stats. Both have lots of rear seat leg room. The 500 has a little more headroom. But you're right about the trunk, etc. The Avalon is more expensive.
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    Traction control is currently standard on the 500 and Freestyle.

    Mark
  • corcor Member Posts: 27
    I was just browsing over some of your previous post on this forum and was just curious as to where you've acquired your vast amount of knowledge on the 500/Montego? I am in awe of the amount of information you have on this product. Do you work for FoMoCo?
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Even Victoria has her secrets...

    Take a look at a few posts from Future Ford forums if you like reading up on a few future products coming up, like the Fusion, Mark LT, Mariner, etc.
  • corcor Member Posts: 27
    hahahaha.....d@mn that Victoria!!! Thanx!!!!
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Yeah, but she got to wear a Crown. It fit the gracious contours of her head. Or was that the Grand Marquis? I forget, I must focus, before I get escorted out of here...Got to remember the tempo!

    john cline ii, five hundred miles from being responsive?
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Crown Vic, Grand Marquis, TC (Shudder)... They sell well and make a VERY good profit (even after rebates) since their engineering and amortization has been paid for long ago....

    Luckily the name hasn't been changed to Frown Victoria.

    Notice how the 500 is classified as a midsize, whereas it really borders on full size. Guess no one wants to upset the crown jewels....
  • beer4704beer4704 Member Posts: 46
    darn near perfect in size (for me). The Ltd is very comfortable and well laid out. I do not think I will be first in line for the CVT, but, I think the AT6 will suit me fine. Spring/summer will be my time frame if all goes well. 3.0 should be enough as a Hwy cruiser. An Avalon or Accord are proven performers that please many but the size of the Five Hundred seems spot on.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    The other day I was at the Ford Dealer getting my radiator flushed on my 01 Escape. While waiting I ventured out onto the car lot. I noticed about 6 - 8 new 500's on the lot. I walked on over to take a peak. Styling was ok, not breath taking or stand-out. A sales person of course walks up and asks if I want to test drive one. I immediatly explained I was here for service and in no way am I interested in buying a car. He understood but still asked If I would take a test drive and offer my opinion in writing. Off we went. The 500 is a huge improvement over the Taurus. Interior quality is on par with Toyota or Honda. Car is quiet and had a nice solid feel. Overall I would give the 500 a B+. I wish Ford would come out with SHO 500 with its up and coming 3.5 V6. It would need at least 240HP minimum to compete against the Honda V6, Toyota V6, and Altima v6. Ford will not have any problem selling the 500.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Well, they will if they don't start accepting orders. I've had this car on order since late August (not a difficult config, either: SEL with safety package, reverse sensor and AWD. That's all).

    If I don't get a build date soon, I may decide instead to buy a most honorable Subaru 2.5 turbo wagon. I don't want to, but I can only wait so long. After all, the old Impala has 170,000 + miles on it and these 1200 mile round trips that I often take are beginning to worry me just a bit...
  • exalteddragon1exalteddragon1 Member Posts: 729
    Don't do , don't buy the Subaru you'll be making a big mistake!
    I know older Subaru's had defroster and some of you guys can back me up here, i think rust problems too, ala mazda.

    Anywhay, why would you go for a blown 2.5 when you can get a naturally aspirated 3? The Five-Hundred is cooler than any wagon, standing out or not. and would you realy take the Subaru gimmiky interrior over the classy wood paneling and thought out design on the 500?

    And hey, the 500 is a Ford, red white and blue American Sedan that the company needs to sell badly, and is a perfect fit for anyone who needs a practical sedan not interested in going fast.
    I have criticised it myself for not having xenon and nav, but its still way better than a WAGON!

    I bet you'd get some positive comments from anyone you'd take on a ride with you :)

    Guys we can help johnclineii right? Lets find out why Ford can't get the ordering system straight, meybe the moderator here has some input, and ford employees here?

    Its your money, but I'd rather take the bus than drive a wagon, but its just me :) Good luck with your descision but i can tell so far, from what we have seen and read about this car leads me to believe that if your not interested in the latest technology (aside from transmission tech) or drag racing that this car is worth waiting for...

    Hell I'd get it myself if it had RWD, wood paneling on doors, Xenon, Nav and a manumatic (Could you imagine a maual shifting auto with six speeds!)... Oh ya, and at least 250 hp... Sry lol im not in the cars market but like what i see and wish ford luck with sales...
  • n144gn144g Member Posts: 7
    I finally got to test drive a Montego today and was quite impressed. After looking at quite a few family sedans (Lexus, Nissan, Acura, etc.) my wife and i are pretty sure we will probably go with the Montego. I do have a question for those of you with more car savvy than me. On a family type of sedan (as opposed to sports sedan) which choice is better: AWD with traction control? or FWD with traction caontrol AND Stability control?
    Or does it not make much difference in typical driving conditions?
    Thanks for the help.
  • nedc2nedc2 Member Posts: 192
    The Montego doesn't have stability control, yet. Stability control works by integrating the vehicles traction control and ABS systems, with the addition of sensors for yaw, side to side movement, and sometimes pitch and roll, as in Ford's and Volvo's SUVs that reduce the throttle or apply the brakes selectively to keep the vehicle under control. There's more info here:
    http://www.egr.msu.edu/~shreeram/news_items/stability_control.htm- l

    AWD and traction control do help maintain control but it is more useful in situations with reduced traction, ice, snow, sand, and gavel, etc. because they redirect engine power when wheel slippage is detected.
    There are some recent studies which indicate that stability control systems can greatly, I think it's by about 30%, reduce the risk of single vehicle accidents, I'd definitely recommened it if it's an option. but personally I wouldn't make an ultmate decision about whether or not I bought a vehicle based on its availability. The studies compared only cars that are currently equipped with such systems, mostly high performance cars, and from personal experience I'd say that keeping driving speeds within safe limits for the prevailing road conditions and paying attention are far more important. I've unfortunately been in a couple of single vehicle accidents in my life, one involved my car being flipped over, I received only a badly bruised elbow and ego, and I doubt that stability control, per se, would have prevented either one, though in one case ABS would almost certainly have helped.
    Back to your question: AWD with traction control, or FWD and stability control? It depends on your driving style and the sort of weather you are likely to encounter. If you live somewhere very snowy, especially if it's hilly too, I'd get AWD. If you live in the south and like driving fast FWD with stability control is probably going to serve you better, of course AWD with stability control would be the best option.
  • jimlockeyjimlockey Member Posts: 265
    Rather than have an option of a big V6 that only got so, so gas mileage I would pefer a diesel that would have the exta torque and the mileage too
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Stability Control System: Prevents you from making a big boo-boo.

    Traction Control: Opps, be nice, don't do it again.

    AWD: Actively gets you out of a possible boo-boo.
  • z9z9z9z9z9z9z9z9 Member Posts: 101
    I picked up a copy of the Nov. MT today and read their two page article on the Five Hundred. They list an estimated 0-60 time of 7.5 seconds (FWD), and then go on to complain that "[the] engine [is] sadly underspec'd [sic]." Five pages later they list an estimated 0-60 time of 7.5 seconds for the Buick LaCrosse and say they like the "swift quad-cam-six acceleration."

    So is 7.5 seconds slower in a Ford than in a Buick? Has GM developed some new technology that alters the passage of time? Or maybe the guys at MT should quit playing lacrosse and read their own magazine!

    Of course this is MT, so it's probably just a typo...
  • z9z9z9z9z9z9z9z9 Member Posts: 101
    My observations on build quality...

    So far I've seen two samples: one Montego and one Five Hundred, both base models. The Montego had good exterior panel alignment for the most part, especially around the hood and doors. The trunk was average. The Ford was good around the doors as well, but had a misaligned hood. It usually takes a couple months production to get this dialed in, so it may get better. The paint on both cars displayed an average amount of orange peel for a car in this price range.

    The only other issues I noticed are the interior door latch handles (which look like they came from the same parts bin as the '05 Mustang) don't line up in their recesses very well, and the carpet is cut close to the front side of the front seats, especially on the passenger side. The raw edge of the carpet is visible if the seat is pushed all the way back.

    Other than that they look pretty good.
  • quilterquilter Member Posts: 9
    I just saw the Limited at the local dealer. I was impressed with everything, except the front seat. I am 6'2", and need more support under my thighs...I was sorely disappointed in the lack of "seat depth". While there was sufficient head-room, and leg room, I can not see driving long distances in that car. I would really like to buy the 500, but unless they fix the front-seat, I will have to go elsewhere.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Seats are very very important - you spent all you driving time in them. It's kind of item #1 with me.
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    JOHN there is a blue sel on my lot that just got delivered yesterday, maybe we got your car by mistake. Hopefully yours will be in soon.

    Mark
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    I stopped reading MT years ago when their editors started appearing in ads for crappy GM cars. TALK about lack of journalistic integrity...geeze....People that read that magzine always seem to feel MT afterwords.

    Mark
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Although I'm not a regular reader of MT, now that David E. Davis is at the helm (founder and editor emeritus of Automobile) I wouldn't be surprised to see the quality of the writing improve.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Do you think the 500 is big enough to be used for livery service?
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Definately, what type of livery service? It has the largest trunk on it's class, and spacious back seat.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Can it be stretched like a Town Car can?
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Yes, the platform can be stretched in the future, if need be. These platforms are highly fliexbile to do so.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I need to go see one of these I guess. My L/M dealer doesn't have any yet, at least that he admits to. And I don't like to go to the Ford dealer here, they don't know me, so I don't get the treatment I'm used to, you know, throw me the keys, etc. Unfortunately for me, I guess, that Ford dealer just bought my L/M store, so things may change for me in the future anyway... Gotta go drive one of these, see for myself how impressed I can be. If it's built as well as the Monterey and Mountaineer I have, and the Mariner I just drove, I'll be impressed....
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I was thinking in place of Town Cars/Devilles in the executive sedan trade. I've seen Crown Vics/Grand Marquis masquerading in this market and since the 500 is euro-generic it could work well. One large livery service here in Boston once used Volvo S80's. I think they now use S430's.

    Is Ford perhaps working on a heavy duty use 500 ala taxi or police version?
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Ford will be using the 500's platform, as the next Town Car and LS replacements, with AWD.

    This will keep CV for strict rental and police duty...for awhile....
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    The 500 platform can double for cars as small as the LS and as large as the Town Car? I don't see how, but...if you say so. I guess the magic question is - what will YOUR next car be, ANT??? Because I'm completely with you on the current LS. I'm wondering you YOU think a worthy personal replacement for it will be....? I guess, there's always the S-Type, if you want to spend the extra money.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    That platform is flexible. Everything from the smallish S60, to the XC90, Freestyle and 500, it's easily tailored. Although next generation S80 will stem from another C-1 Platform derivative.

    Many goodies debuting in the next few years. Personally I would like to go back to something with 2 doors, not hardcore as Mustang, but Cougar possibility. This whole "OH we want to go in your car" senario is getting annoying.

    Since the LS replacement will run AWD on a P2 platform, I'm content over the AWD issue. I myself have wanted to go into AWD for quite sometime, unfortuantely there's never been an alternative. Also looking at the Volvo C70 replacement, and possible C90 Super Coupe. which should address all my concerns.

    I have around 2 years left on my 2nd LS before I hit 100K mark and trade again, therefore I'm hoping there's better options than last time around.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Thanks for sharing those viewpoints. I'm a lot older than you are, ANT, but I share a lot of the headthoughts you have, I think. It helps me shape my plans for future car acquisitions.

    I doubt a Montego will grace my garage, but I'm very interested in it from a progress in concept perspective. The Freestyle could find its way into my fleet someday. I've about decided that SUVs are perfect for everything, now that they come in so many flavors, I doubt I'll go back to a regular sedan, but who knows. If so, it would be more in the Town Car theme...
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Crossovers will definately be the new wave. And there's numerous cross-overs that will debut from Ford and Volvo overall. Mazda, and Mercury will also receive there's respectively. Mazda will release their Mazda5, which will have 3 rows of seating, yet be a small offering (think Focus C-Max) priced around $18K (minivan sliding rear doors). I'm interested in seeing how the U.S. consumer's accept that vehicle.

    I myself can't deal with an SUV. Mainly because of how aggresive I drive, dislike having extra people in the car, do not wish to carry much cargo, and like to make it known "Single and loving it, no responsibilities for me" hehe...

    Unfortunately sales are dwindling and the market is fragmented, therefore don't be surprised if numerous coupes are built off exsisting modified sedans, longer refreshining cycles, or killed off totally.

    Now, the P2 platform can be modified for a Coupe structure if need be, although it'll add some weight.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Are you saying there may a new Cougar under development? Is the cat coming back for life #5? That's hot news!! I wasn't a big fan of the last version, but I respected it as a small sports car in the affordable range. My preference for a Cougar, would be something more like the 83-88 version, but this is big news, if you're letting it slip here!!
  • frasierdogfrasierdog Member Posts: 128
    Let us hope if a new coup is developed it will be more like the 91 Cougar and not the 83 garbage.

    Starting in 91 we saw a true Cat. Fully independent rear suspension, H type front suspension. Adjustable shocks. But the 91 series did needed a stiffer unibody.

    But we will most likey see a FWD with a 3.5 with sales at about 40k units.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Not exactly, it's still being considered but Mustang based RWD definately.
This discussion has been closed.