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Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego

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Comments

  • jimlockeyjimlockey Member Posts: 265
    Alpha I have traveled all over the US pulling a 5th wheel with a Ford Power Stroke diesel and their is no problem finding diesel fuel...........

    Because of the price of fuel we now travel more in our Passat TDI / w automatic transmission. We average 32.5 mpg overall. The more highway driving we do the higher the mileage.

    What I'm saying Ford, in my opinion, has the best dealer support in the nation and by adding a diesel to the 500 would make a good marriage.

    I have pulled into a number of Ford dealers for oil changes and the like and the Ford dealers have been SUPER.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    If your Hunting for a more fuel efficIent option, instead of diesel, thiNk of a hybrid possibiliTy.
  • jimlockeyjimlockey Member Posts: 265
    No thanks, you can keep your hybrids. I've read eough about them to say no, no, no, plus the cost is going up, up, up.

    Oh, areound town they are fine, but the cost will never pay it in fuel savings.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    I agree, I'm just sharing the future. Takes many years of ownership to offset the initial cost over a comparable ICE model. The uncertainty of resale, battery replacement, etc.etc. Except for the "feeling green" factor, I don't see much more to it.

    Ford does have a diesel team here in the U.S. which is working on the possibility of future diesel applications. Granted, easier on trucks, they are mainly studying the feasibility of implementing them on passenger cars.
  • rl81rl81 Member Posts: 53
    From what I can see they have in Europe driving around, Ford can't really pull any Diesel from there and offer it in the US. The fastest Diesel in the Volvo S80 takes about 10s from 0-60...it will be way more on that heavy 500...

    I don't think we can expect a Diesel on the 500 in this life cycle, unless they have an Ace up their sleeves...Ford is going to wait this one out. *Sleep well*
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    The 2.7L V6 which was a Peugeot/Ford colaboration project would be the possible diesel offering. Then there's a larger diesel which Volvo is working on, which will be used by Jaguar and LR as well. There are a few other diesel engines being studied for Ford NA, moreso, you might see it first on an F-150 first...
  • jimlockeyjimlockey Member Posts: 265
    I have a friend that lives in Scotland who has a Jaguar diesel. Becasue it is a larger diesel engine, the Jaguar doesn't get the mileage of my 05 Passat TDI. This doesn't make complete since because the Merc 320 has a little more hp and gets about the same mileage as the Passat TDI . The Merc 320 will also do the 0 to 60 faster than the TDI. The 0 to 60 is not an issure for me.

    I think Ford as access to diesel engines but they are afraid to import them to the US until the EPA makes the final say on the sulfur content of our fuels here in the US. This is a BIG political issue here. The Oil Industry owns Congress (both houses) through their CAP organizations.

    I would love to have the choices of diesel egines that Europe has. With the newer diesel engines and particale catchers, diesels, can burn as clean as a gas car....
  • rl81rl81 Member Posts: 53
    The point I was trying to make is that other carmakers are more advanced than Ford in that area. I believe that the best Diesel engines are not going to come from Ford for some time. Volvo and Jaguar are late-starters in Diesel as well (comparably). VW was the first one, when they introduced their TDI engine, to make decend Diesel passenger cars. MB and their Common-Rail brought fuel efficiency and power up. And finally BMW brought the sport element into that equation

    I think you hit the nail on the head with the Oil Industry. For them, increased fuel efficiency is simply a loss in revenue. It is not my intent to make them evil, but let's see the facts. If I would be threatened with lower revenues by a "new" technology, then I would try to find ways to limit it as much as possible. Hybrid to that effect is too young and unpredictable, yet. But we know what Diesel technology is able to do...
  • jimlockeyjimlockey Member Posts: 265
    Didn't Ford try to merge with or buy out VW?

    If the two only knew that it could be a wonderful merger. Ford with one of the best, if not the best, dealer base in the US and VW with their superb simple enginering.

    Yes the German's, French and Italians do rather well when it comes to diesel engines.
  • tkfitztkfitz Member Posts: 95
    really ought to be raised from an also- run in the list of consumer demands to the top of the list. Along with safety,reliability, performance etc...I have no idea how this will take effect, but looking around on the highway it is fairly clear we are not quite at that point.
    If a car the size of the 500 can get about 30 mpg it seems to me that something like the Focus should be 40+.
    If fuel efficiency sold vehicles........who knows what options we would get. It now costs $50+ to gas up my F150. I see a lot of them out there, driving everyday.
    For many of us in the country (rural) a more efficient gas ICE drive line is still the best choice. The few diesels available are way too costly to ever recover their initial costs in fuel economy. Same for hybrids at todays prices.
    Auto makers sell cars to make profits, it is us consumers that that dictate the market. Reference this forum, the most anticipated event is the 3.5 engine.
    How about some interest in a flex-fuel 3.0? Greenest option I can see out there.
  • mrlizzzardmrlizzzard Member Posts: 31
    Weigh your vehicle and compare the weight to other brands and mostly you will see about the same MPG.Even conservative manufacturers like Honda lag in the MPG department.Do you think if OPEC wasn't a major share holder in GM and other car makers they would actually compete for better MPG?I do.
    lizzzard
  • jimlockeyjimlockey Member Posts: 265
    The US auto industry and younger drivers are still stuck on the 0 to 60 and auto racing mentality. If the fuel prices stay as high as they have been for the past year there could be a change, but I doubt it.
  • wep68wep68 Member Posts: 18
    I live about 30 miles south of SF. Import car capital of america.

    I am interested in the 500, so I keep my eyes open for them. I have seen exactly one (1).

    Meanwhile, I saw 5 Toyota prius' today. In fact I see a prius every day.

    I wonder what Fords market share for cars in the Bay Area -- amazingly low.
  • mnfmnf Member Posts: 405
    Any comments on what the warranty's are going for on the 500 or Montego as we all know they are open for bargaining when buying. Any help would be great.... Thanks M/F
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    I saw 500s and Montegos - both privately own and rentals, on the roads and parking lots of Bay area. The problem with 500 is its not easily noticeable. Because of bland design and Mercedes rear end you need extra effort to notice these cars. They just blend into crowd. Sometimes I see Mercedes and think it is 500, and vice versa.

    Honda Odysseys are already all over place. Yeah, but it is Bay area.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    How unusual they would have so many minivans in the bay area, since SanFran has the lowest children population of any major city in the U.S.
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    Its not babies, its Bay area engineers. They have extended families - dads, moms, gran’dads, gran’moms - all live together. But most drive Corollas and Civics. Those who want more comfort - drive Camries and Accords. Those with extended families drive Siennas and Oddies. Those who are rich drive BMWs, Acuras and Lexuses. So you got a picture. There is no place for Ford, GM and Chrysler. Non-engineers though drive all kind of vehicles.
  • wep68wep68 Member Posts: 18
    Ant - I live in the burbs, 30 miles south of SF. I have a mini van. Everyone has a minivan or SVU

    SavetheLand -- I know what 500s look like, and I look for them. In San Carlos I have still only seen one.
  • smithedsmithed Member Posts: 444
    I don't know, that HEMI is mighty enticing. :shades:
  • garandmangarandman Member Posts: 524
    Its not babies, its Bay area engineers. They have extended families - dads, moms, gran’dads, gran’moms - all live together. But most drive Corollas and Civics. Those who want more comfort - drive Camries and Accords. Those with extended families drive Siennas and Oddies. Those who are rich drive BMWs, Acuras and Lexuses. So you got a picture. There is no place for Ford, GM and Chrysler. Non-engineers though drive all kind of vehicles

    Umm, want to back that up with some identifiable market share data? That sounds like a big fat stereotype to me. I know a lot of Bay Area engineers and they mostly drive SUV's.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,204
    i saw a car driving through a grassy parking area about 150 ft way. the first thing that caught my eye were the wheels. took a little closer look wondering what kind of car is that? it was a black 500 liminted. it looked really good. they should have put the exhaust straight out the back, with a polished tip. it would have made the back look less narrow. that the weakest view of the car. you can tell it was designed to have a straight exhaust exit, but it got cut because of cost.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • frasierdogfrasierdog Member Posts: 128
    Why is Ford only offering the CVT in the Freestyle? I want the 6 sp.

    After several visits to the dealer, I really have become to like the Freestyle, 3.0L and all.

    Yet, I can not get past the CVT. While it's performance is fine, I have no confidence that it will make 150K miles as my previous Ford vehicles.

    The dealer did not want to through in a warrantee to cover the transmission to 150K miles.

    Whatever the merits of the CVT may be, it's reliability is not proven. With that in mind, I must consider the Freestyle price with an added cost of $2k for a tranny replacement down the road.

    If in 3 years, the CVT reliability has been shown to be quite low, trade-in values will reflect it.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Ford doesn't only offer the CVT in the Freestyle. It's also available in the Five Hundred. I have one, and love it. I usually put 150,000 to 170,000 miles on my cars, so you can see I was not concerned about durability on the CVT.

    Now, if you meant why does Ford offer only the CVT in the Freestyle, that group is over there on Edmunds, too; though I bet ANT will answer that here. The CVT DOES get better fuel economy in the same configuration (but EPA figures say otherwise). It also handles acceleration better, and the Freestyle is a larger, heavier vehicle than the Five Hundred.

    Good fortune on whatever you decide!
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    The added complexity and weight of AWD is better suited with the CVT, rather than the 6Speed. Also, while the CVT is a Ford owned collaboration, while the 6speed units need to be bought from Aisin.

    The CVT has undergone extensive testing, and has been used in a few European vehicles as well, where it's initial design debuted and hasn't been a cause of concern. Unfortunately there's always going to be a few that will fail like any component. Some dealers probably didn't reflash it's computers upon their acceptance provided a TSB was issued.

    The Aisin 6 Speed unit can only take so much of a load, therefore the new GM/Ford JV transmission will debut along with the new Duratec35 for it's increased power.
  • frasierdogfrasierdog Member Posts: 128
    "The CVT has undergone extensive testing, and has been used in a few European vehicles as well"

    While this may give a Ford engineer a warm fuzzy feeling. The warrantee only covers 36k miles. That only gives me a cold, wrinkled feeling.

    If Ford really believes that this new transmission is just as reliable as a traditional unit, cover it with a 100K mile warrantee. In my mind the CVT is an unknown risk factor.

    I am wondering what the cost difference would be to overhaul a 6sp vs. CVT?

    If I only kept my cars 3 or 4 years I would not care, but I usually drive my cars into the grave.

    My Cougar, MGM and Expedition transmissions have set the bar at 165k trouble free miles. So guess what I expect out of the CVT?
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,204
    ant14 can't guarantee the longevity of any component. does any manufacturer guarantee anything for 150k? it would be great if they would.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • frasierdogfrasierdog Member Posts: 128
    In this case I would consider the true total cost ownership to be the purchase price + $2k for a new tranny to make the 150k total vehicle mileage.

    Fords have typically had good trannys, this is just new unproven technology in the US market. Keep in mind, if someone really likes a vehicle, they will overlook almost all the negatives.

    But at $2k extra, the car is less appealing.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    So just as Ford can't guarantee a component for 150,000 miles, in your mind you are going to automatically assume it will fail. Whatever....I will happily drive my CVT and let you know when I have 150,000 miles on it. I already have 28,400. My 00 Impala (bought during its first year of production) had virtually ZERO problems the entire time I owned it--five years and 173.000 miles...

    Remember, Ford can't assume you will properly maintain the vehicle and operate it in a reasonable fashion, either. Many owners don't, including modifying their vehicles, then expect FOMOCO to make them whole when their actions or inactions cause the vehicle to fail....
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    The Escape Hybrid when purchased in a Green State comes with a 10 year 150,000 warranty from Ford on unique hybrid components, including the eCVT transmission.

    Mark
  • navigator89navigator89 Member Posts: 1,080
    The Ford Five Hundred just placed fourth out of six cars in a recent Car and Driver comparison test. The cars featured were the Buick Lacrosse, Chrysler 300, Kia Amanti, Nissan Maxima and Toyota Avalon.
  • navigator89navigator89 Member Posts: 1,080
    Here's the link to the C&D comparison test.

    http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=9639
  • chuck1chuck1 Member Posts: 1,405
    www.fordwarrantys.com

    Bought mine there for the Explorer I own. Very pleasant buying experience. I saved over $600.00 vs. buying in Southern California! :)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,204
    i have actually been to that dealership. they usually have a good selection of the better fords.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • tacoboytacoboy Member Posts: 25
    I have just read (Autoweek) that Volvo is working on 3 new I6 engines for use across the ford family. An N/A 3.2L ~230hp, and two turbocharged 3.0L engines. I wonder what the odds are that one or more of these will end up in the 500 line? Makes sense considering it's S80 roots.
  • ehaaseehaase Member Posts: 328
    Since the Five Hundred will be receiving a new 3.5L V6 within 2 years, it is highly unlikely that it will ever get the new Volvo inline six.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    The Volvo engines will not be shared with Ford anytime soon. The new I-6's are to be used on Volvo's, Jaguars, and LR's. The Yamaha V8 will be shared with one Lincoln. Ford will use the Duratec35. F/L/M must use their own engines, to allow for V/J/LR to differentiate itself from them a bit. Plus, Inline engines are something well known to Volvo's, it's proper that they continue that tradition.
  • danielj6danielj6 Member Posts: 285
    Two questions:
    Did the IIHS test bumper strength on the 500 and Montego?? I mean low speed crashes.

    Do these results also include the Freestyle too?
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Not yet, the bumper bashing tests might take place later this year.
  • frizz2112frizz2112 Member Posts: 84
    Is it just me or does Ford have a wee bit of a problem on it's hands offering the Fusion with a 221 HP V6 and the 500 with only a 203 HP V6? Perhaps it's not the biggest deal in the world, but I can't imagine this will help with 500 sales. I suppose they will upgrade the 3.0 in the 500 to the 221 HP version when the 3.5 is added in a year or so?
  • micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    Check the torque figures, torque is more important (a car can have high peak horsepower, but if it only comes in at 6,000 rpm, it isn't very useful). It is very common for manufacturers to drop the horsepower, increase the torque when an engine is dropped into a larger, heavier car (or when it moves from a standard transmission to an automatic, for example). For example, the 2.2 Ecotec loses horsepower but gains torque when it is retuned for the heavier Malibu from the lighter Cobalt.

    But this begs the question. Do most of us think the Five Hundred should have a bigger, stronger engine? Yes, despite Ford's arguments about good gas mileage and making back performance by using 6 speed automatics or a CVT transmission.
  • frizz2112frizz2112 Member Posts: 84
    Micweb, I agree with your point regarding torque, and it would not surprise me if the engines were hard to tell apart in real world driving. I was thinking more from a marketing perspective. Asking someone to pay more for a car with a less powerful (on paper) engine puts Ford at a disadvantage. Perhaps it's not one that matters to the majority of customers, but it's there just the same.

    I also agree that the 500 needs a more powerful engine, period. Again the marketing reasons are just as important as the practical ones. For all the pre-release hype about the CVT and 6 speed making up the difference, the 500 consistently gets beaten by significant margins by the Chrysler 300 with the 3.5 V6; which Ford showed in some early literature as being about on par with the 500 performance wise. It's less about what you need that what you get for your dollar. I've driven a 500 with the CVT, and I found the power to be adequate, but if a rival gets me noticeably more power for the money, that's a significant advantage.
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    I have said this before but the topic keeps coming up.

    The Ford Escape uses a different CVT that Ford calls an eCVT and its my understanding that its planetary gear based rather than chain based. Not withstanding same, the Escape Hybrid receives a 150k warranty on unique hybrid components, including the eCVT, in green states such as CA, PA, NY,NJ, DE, CT, MA.

    Mark
  • exalteddragon1exalteddragon1 Member Posts: 729
    Yes I agree about the power too, glad ford will be addressing this issue soon. I thought because the updated 3.0L uses VCT, the torque has remained the same?

    Remember one thing, though. Today this car's strength is the interrior room and comfort, along with an exellent trunk. This car is also ellegant, more so than the new Avalon.

    So what is the deal with the new 3.0 VCT?
  • gmctruckgmctruck Member Posts: 186
    Last week I went to a Ford dealer to look at the 500 Limited. After a short test drive, the salesman offered to let me take the car home for the night, which I accepted. I liked the exterior styling and the interior space of the car. What I didn't like was the rear view mirror is mounted too high and too close to the map lights which obstructs the view. My son didn't like the fact that the rear doors do not unlock when the engine is turned off like the front doors do. I had trouble finding my comfort zone between leg room and the steering wheel. By that I mean when I adjusted the seat to give me enough leg room, the steering wheel felt too far away and my arms were uncomfortable reaching so far forward. The memory seats are nice for when the wife changes everything when she drives. The dash mounted clock looks nice, but it seemed kind of a waste since the radio has a digital clock. The trunk lid on this car did not open and close very well. When you hit the trunk button, the trunk unlocks, but the lid does not move or open. Also the lid did not close with a smooth motion. It was more like a slam shut even though I was not slamming the lid down at all. The car cruised well on the highway and does have a nice ride, but the engine is underpowered and the interior noise level could have been better. I did like the big tires and the car handled very well. The rear backup sensors are a nice safety feature. I also liked the dual climate control and the heated seats. The sound system was adequate for most drivers, but not spectacular compared with GM. With a few tweaks, I think Ford will have a winner with the 500 Limited, but not yet... I do credit the dealer for the way they treated me even though I didn't buy the car. If I do buy a Ford, they are tops on my choice list of dealers.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    You probably just did not pull the rearview mirror down. It has two pivots, one at the roof, one behind the mirror and it is likely it just was pushed up too far close to the roof.

    The trunk doesn't pop open because it has a linkage and gas strut design and this design means there is little force initially due to the lack of mechanical advantage of the gas struts until the trunk gets open further. On the plus side, you will not have the gooseneck hinges intruding on trunk space like you did with older designs, like my Taurus. So the tradeoff here is more trunk space but no pop open trunk. I think the no trunk intrusion is more valuable than the pop open trunk. Also the gas struts act as dampers when closing, so the faster you try to slam it, the resistance goes up, unlike the torsion bar springs and gooseneck hinges of old.

    The fact the rear doors do not unlock is more of a safety feature for keeping young children from getting out on their own. Note also, if the front doors are like my Taurus, they do not "unlock themselves" but they do allow opening the door from the inside without pressing the unlock button, as the inside door latch overides the locks. A quick press of the unlock button lets the rear passengers out, but I suppose this is a little less convenient.

    As far as power and noise level, this has been noted many times, with most people claiming the power levels are adequate, if not earth shattering, and engine noise levels are only noticeable during hard acceleration. Once under way, it quiets down nicely.

    Did your test Five hundred have adjustable pedals? If so, you may have been able to adjust those to get you closer to the steering wheel.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    The front doors do NOT unlock themselves, they act just like your Taurus does.

    I would be curious as to whether gmctruck test drove a 6 speed or a CVT. I own an AWD SEL and I have not had any problems with lack of power....that is not to say I would not be interested in a more powerful engine, I would be...

    Automatic unlocking of all doors is a safety hazard in this day and age. It is NOT that difficult to open a door...sheesh, the switch is on the door or just pull up the button....This is just a difference from your current vehicle(s), and you will quickly adapt. Note the useful numerical keyless entry on the exterior of the driver's door. You will be amazed how handy that is and how quickly one becomes used to that!

    Noise levels are MUCH lower on the SEL and SE, which do not come with the low profile 18 inch tires that the Limited does....
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    One thing about the CVT is there is a switch that gets pressed when you floor the gas pedal. This switch tells the CVT that hard acceleration is required and the CVT steps immediately down to the tallest gear ratio available.

    If you don't floor the pedal than you may experience "poor midrange acceleration". This takes some getting use to because most people who drive this type of car don't go around flooring them. However because of the electronic throttle, there is no way to hurt the engine.

    If you have a CVT and don't think you are getting good acceleration, try flooring it.

    Mark
  • gmctruckgmctruck Member Posts: 186
    The 500 Limited only comes with the 6-speed (no CVT). The one I drove was not AWD though. The front doors did unlock when the engine was turned off, but the rear doors did not. I understand it may be a safety feature, but to an 11 year old boy, it's a PITA when dad always forgets to unlock the rear doors... :D
  • gmctruckgmctruck Member Posts: 186
    Ahhh.... you have explained many things.... Thank You! I did adjust the pedals and the seat, but never found my comfort zone. If the steering wheel could be adjusted out, then I would be good to go. Maybe it did and I just didn't know about it like the other stuff. When I told the dealer about the mirror, they didn't explain things the way you have. I did try to adjust the mirror, but didn't want to force anything too hard since it wasn't my car.

    Ford did have good incentives on the 500... plus I would get the X-plan discount. It was tempting, but I'm not ready to pull the trigger just yet. I've always been a GM man, so it's hard to make the switch to unfamiliar territory :shades: ... but I do have a Volvo.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    gmctruck: The 500 Limited IS AVAILABLE with a CVT...I have many friends who have one....and I just rode in one of their cars last week....The CVT comes with AWD....and originally was only available on FWD cars with the SE, but now doesn't come with FWD at all, I believe...
This discussion has been closed.