Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego

nvbanker · July 2004

"one post long ago I mentioned that the Navigator may feel far faster than it is, but did not mean to say anything negative about another member who owns one."

Oh, no problem here - you might be right. Until I can do a jackrabbit at a light with another vehicle - never know for sure. I had a 6 cylinder Continental 10 years ago, and my buddy had a V-8 DeVille, same size, the FWD small one. He was always bragging about how fast his Caddy was, so I challenged him. Blew his doors off. Humbled him but good, and frankly, I was surprised! So, this time, I could be wrong. But I have raced a Tahoe and killed it badly, so the Nav's not THAT slow.

fdcapt2 · July 2004

Today I test drove the Chrysler 300C. That's the one with the HEMI. I gotta say it was unreal. Very quiet, even at high speeds, hugged the road like it was on rails, the interior is excellent, comfort as well as looks. I could order one tomorrow with the whole 9 yards and probably be ecstatic for a long time to come, But I came home and went to all my 500/Montego sites to check things out again. My life long love of the Oval is keeping me from jumping now. I hope they get these cars to the dealers really soon before many people that aren't sure of their next car, might not want to wait. Here on Long Island I'm seeing more and more of the 300's and the Dodge Magnum, which also is sweet. Ant, any behind closed door type info??

johnclineii · July 2004

Yeah, it's been another two weeks!

Just got my Motor Trend. Not a word about the Five Hundred...

sigh

alpha01 · July 2004

Even with its Six Speed auto, there is NO WAY that Five Hundred's performance is going to come close to that of the Hemi's. To give you a better perspective, you should really try a 300 Touring or Limited, with the 3.5L engine.... I suspect that will still outaccelerate the Five Hundred, but at least its a fair comparison.

I think the 300 is hideous, and so do most of my friends. (The Five Hundred has class to its style, even if it will be knocked for being plain) The 300's popularity seems to be heavily tied to several demographics, and because of that, I wonder if it will sustain. Chrysler has seen this before- the PT Cruiser now carries nearly as substantial a rebate as the rest of its product line, for example.

my .02
~alpha

ANT14 · July 2004

"Just got my Motor Trend. Not a word about the Five Hundred..."

Not the one coming out this week (I received mine days ago)...The one's coming out next month. They are usually a month or 2 ahead in issue.

The 500's acceleration will be under/around 8 seconds.

alpha01 · July 2004

I dont believe it. I think under 9 seconds is a question mark, let alone under 8 seconds. The most recent issue of Business Week states of the Five Hundred, Freestyle, and Montego:

Page 34 Aug 9 2004

"..the cars, based on the chassis made by partner Volvo, gets high marks for smooth handling, comfortable ride, and roomy, easily reconfigured interiors. Yet their heavy weight makes them feel sluggish, say those who have driven the cars. Ford takes issue with the characterization. 'We deliver better acceleration, better fuel economy, and half the emissions of some of our competitors, says a company spokesman'"

Those competitors are probably the Kia Amanti (terrible fuel consumption and an 8.9 second run to 60), and the Chrysler 300 2.7, (slightly better economy than Amanti, but even slower, at 9.5+ seconds to 60).

For has a problem, in my opinion, in that the Avalon is going to be redesigned by Spring of 2005, and the 300 offers something truly different. GMs full size cars will also be redesigned in the next 1.5 calendar years.

~alpha

buckwheat · July 2004

http://autodeadline.com/Photos?Source=Ford&kw=five%20hundred

http://autodeadline.com/Photos?source=mercury&model=Montego

ANT14 · July 2004

Transmissions will help make up for the low horsepower. We've discussed this in the past.

alpha01 · July 2004

"help" being the operative word. The six speed and CVT are not going to fully compensate for the pronouced mismatch between weight and hp, or weight and torque. I will be the first to admit Im wrong, but even with the advanced transmissions, I cant imagine these cars will feel strong or post class-average (8 flat, say, to 60) times.

~alpha

ANT14 · July 2004

According to typical calculations (transmission gearing not taken into account) these vehicles would be doing 11 seconds. Obviously that wouldn't be the case. The vehicles are quite quick overall considering just having 203HP. It surely won't be anything in the 9's range.

ehaase · July 2004

The Five Hundred's success will be based upon its amazingly roomy interior and the strength of Ford's dealer network, not its acceleration.

However, in future years, Ford is probably going to have to do some de-contenting to make the Five Hundred competitive with the base Impala in price. I can't see very many people being interested in paying over $25,000 for a Five Hundred.

samnoe · July 2004

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6264

johnclineii · August 2004

http://www.thetimesonline.com/articles/2004/08/01/business/busine- ss/05f4ba3df961d2ce86256ee1005d6d5c.txt

or

http://tinyurl.com/5vb4t

a_l_hubcaps · August 2004

ehaase-

Yeah, I read something awhile ago indicating that the initial planning for the Five Hundred and Montego was done during the Jac Nasser era, when Ford was having delusions of grandeur. I think that's why the cars are so well-equipped (and, presumably, pricey). I wouldn't be surprised if we see a cheaper model in a year or two. Considering that you can pick up a base Impala for around $18K with all the discounts, I don't think it's really in the same league as the Five Hundred as it currently exists. I would expect to see starting MSRP in the $23K range for the Five Hundred...I know the Impala starts around there too, but its MSRP is a bad joke, whereas I expect that Ford will not substantially discount the Five Hundred. At any rate, it will be interesting to see what happens.

-Andrew L

307web · August 2004

They will discount them if they need to discount them. We will see how they turn out and how the public reacts to the MSRP.

johnclineii · August 2004

Back in the fall of 1995, Ford was VERY happy with the newest, 1996 all ovally Taurus. Mr. Trotman, then the head honcho at Ford, announced that the cars were more expensive and that the public had no choice but to buy them. This appeared in a Business Week article at the time. The price, he said, was the price.

The vehicles came out. Sales fell.

Alex is gone.

rcf8000 · August 2004

I don't understand where Ford thinks they are positioning the Five Hundred and Montego in the marketplace. I guess they will be at the top of the Ford and Mercury lines, yet they lack many of the optional features offerred by the Toyota Camry and Avalon and the Honda Accord. (The most glaring omission is a nav system, but there are many other missing options, judging from the information I've seen.) Of course, the Ford models offer greater passenger room and trunk space, but they're deficient in many other important areas, like horsepower. Why didn't they go for the knockout? (Yes, I know the 3.5L is coming eventually.)

ANT14 · August 2004

So instead of the 3.0L Duratec V6, what other engine in Ford's portfolio you would you use instead ?

BTW, the NAV system wasn't something that most people in consumer groups were begging for... Hence, you might see it implemented next year (not a priority).

nvbanker · August 2004

I realize, it's been many years since I was a target for a new Ford, but sometimes I really wonder who they invite in for these consumer groups. Because, NAV needs to be available, soon, if not out of the gate. It just denigrates the "perception" of the new car not to have it available, IMO. The group may not have demanded it, but when was this group put together? 3-4 years ago? Now, EVERYBODY has NAV.

andyman73 · August 2004

I'm just curious as to why the new line up comes ahead of the new engine? Would it not be better to introduce a whole new line up with the new engine, instead of the same underpowered, behind the powercurve, engine? Personally I will be shopping for the Freestyle with the 3.5, for my wife. BTW, I have been anxiously waiting for the new line up ever since the Contour went away. I hope this engine can find its way into the Ranger, also.

Do they plan on releasing special models maybe named Galaxy, and Fairlane? That would be okay by me. Maybe make a convertable 500 and call it the Skyliner.

One more thing, I would like to offer my gratitude for your willingness to answer so many questions. Seems that you have the insiders knowledge, and yet don't outright spill the beans, either.

Andy

ANT14 · August 2004

Acutally, if I could... I wouldn't... Then again in Miami it's all grid streets with numbers, and one of the simplest. I say, if you have no idea where your going, get off the road... Although it's quite helpful for those cities where it's named streets.

I agree, some of these consumer groups I would be rid of, and concentrate on more of "what the competition is doing" but doesn't work that way. But sometimes holding out for a year for such complicated option to be available, can help simplify, and shorten the production and introduction time of a vehicle.

Stability Control Systems are also one of those items that are commonly late availabilities for the above reason.

Andy: I think I answered this earlier when the forum was started... Main reason the engine wasn't able to make an entrance at the same time as the vehicle... is because of plant consolidation, updating the Chicago Assembly Plant to flexible manufacturing, having to kill some other production (Taurus/Sable) to consolidate it to ATL only, and the engine plant itself can't be shut down completely to introduce a new engine, when current production is needed for other vehicles.

So many factor's to take into consideration that makes it virtually impossible. And no other engines could be implemented either. Closest relative (in power) would be the Cologne 4.0L SOHC V6 from the Explorer, but that's only mounted Longitudely for RWD vehicles. Anything else (like the Vulcan 3.9, 4.2L are unrefined OHV engines found in the Freestar, not suitable for this vehicle). So this is really the only possible senario.

Yes a higher output version of the 3.0L Duratec would have been possible, as found in the Lincoln LS at 232HP. But that version requires premium gas (not something to aim for at this time in our economy), it's a bit costlier to manufacturer, and it's a bit peaky for it to attain it's power.... while this approx. 3800LBS requires torque from down low, which the simple 3.0L can furnish.

johnclineii · August 2004

As to whether Ford will be able to hold the line on pricing and not putting incentives on these cars, even Honda is now putting incentives on Accords, which had previously been a huge no-no for them:

http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0408/02/a01-229485.htm

frasierdog · August 2004

I would say that I am probably one of those people in the focus groups. I know my way to work. A $2k map is not even a thought in my dreams.

As for the engine, 3.0 will work today. A 3.5L is going to add most likely $900 to the cost and subtract 2 mpg.

And ab-so-freaking-lutly nothing will matter if the car is not reliable. I will not beta test for any manufacturer. (PERIOD)

mschmal · August 2004

Hey ANT, whats different about the Duratec 30 in the Mazda6 and why can't Ford do that in the 500? Is it just varible valve timing?

Mark

mschmal · August 2004

Not all the navigation systems are the same. The one Ford is using in the Expedition is CD-Rom based, not DVD, and its not easy to use. Also i'm told that the CDs are outragiously expensive to replace if you damage one...like aroud $1000 for the set. I really don't see why navigation systems are so great, especially as we move more toward wireless/cellular internet. I can easily see that the current idea of a Navigation system be completely obsolete with in 5 to 10 years.

Mark

badgerfan · August 2004

I posted this back in April, looks like it might be of interest to you, as I quote myself:

"Just for kicks I went back and looked at CR's acceleration data for the 3.0 Duratec in Taurus vs 3.0 Duratec modified and with 5 speed automatic in Mazda 6.

Taurus 0-60 in 8.3 seconds. 45-65 in 4.9 seconds. 1/4 mile in 16.4 seconds. Curb weight 3325 lbs. CR mileage test: 15 city, 31 highway, 22 overall

Mazda 6: 0-60 in 8.1 seconds. 45-65 in 5.3 seconds. 1/4 mile in 16.5 seconds. Curb weight 3355 lbs. Cr mileage test: 14 city, 30 highway, 20 overall.

Seems all that tweaking Mazda did with variable valve timing and a 5 speed automatic did nearly nothing but allow Mazda to publish a 10% higher horsepower rating, but with worse mileage, and in only one acceleration test did it beat the Taurus.

My point, wait until you drive the 500 with the 3.0 Duratec before you pass judgement on its inadequate engine, and if you think it is inadequate, then buy something else or wait for the 3.5. I'd certainly rather Ford release 500 this fall than wait a year for another engine option."

With the 3.0 Duratech in the 500 and new transmissions, I would expect it to have nearly the same or slightly less acceleration capabilities than the lighter weight Taurus with a 4 speed automatic, certainly adequate for the market this car is shooting for. And, if after it is on the market and you don't think it is adequate, buy something else or wait for the larger Duratech a year or so later.

ehaase · August 2004

This week's Automotive News said that the Five Hundred probably won't get the 3.5 until the 2008 model year. The 3.5 will probably debut on the 2007 Lincoln Aviator.

ANT14 · August 2004

"Hey ANT, whats different about the Duratec 30 in the Mazda6 and why can't Ford do that in the 500? Is it just varible valve timing?"

Mazda designed/developed, their heads specifically to produce a bit more horsepower, 220HP....BUT, that isn't much of an issue since the vehicle weights around 3100-3200lbs.... So it's ok for that engine to rev higher to produce those 220HP. Whereas the normal Duratec 30 found in the Taurus, acheives it's power lower in the rev range, where it'll be beneficial for this @ 3800lbs vehicle.

Example: At 2000RPM, the Taurus 3.0L could be pumping out let's say a good 180LBS of TQ, whereas the Mazda6 version would be producing 130lbs at that same level. (This is an example, not actual data).

So yes the Mazda6 overall produces more HP, but is it really useable when you need to swing up to 6000RPM to attain it ? Hence, I rather have the Taurus version.

99tcamry · August 2004

Is the Five Hundred coming out soon? I saw a promotion in the newspaper saying that August 7th there was going to be a preview of the Five Hundred, Mustang and Freestyle. This was all to be held at a local Ford dealer. Has anyone else heard anything?

ANT14 · August 2004

Yes scroll back about 50 messages... Ford is holding some test drive's on 4 cities, to give customer's an experience to test them out.

johnclineii · August 2004

Apparently, August 10 is the end of the embargo and the beginning of official production for the Five Hundred/Montego/Freestyle.

And there is an article in Business Week this week about the manufacturing process for these vehicles which says, in passing, some less than complimentary things about the cars. It can be found at:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_32/b3895056_mz011- .htm

A representative quote follows:

***It doesn't help that the three new cars are generating yawns. Sure, the cars, based on chasis made by partner Volvo, get high marks for smooth handling, comfortable ride, and roomy, easily reconfigured interiors. Yet their heavy weight makes them feel sluggish, say those who have driven the cars. Ford takes issue with the characterization. "We deliver better acceleration, better fuel economy, and half the emissions of some of our competitors," says a company spokesman.

Still, at a time when Chrysler Group (DCX ) is wowing buyers with its brashly styled, 300C sedan, Ford is bringing out a crop of bland cars. Ford execs point out that the Honda (HMC ) Accord and Toyota (TM ) Camry, both top rivals, aren't exactly sexy. But they are well-established contenders. To lure buyers away from Accords or Camrys, says Wesley R. Brown, an analyst at consultants Iceology, "you have to do something extraordinary."*****

spidermonkey · August 2004

When I look at the Five Hundred and its total package, I think Ford got it about right. I imagine that this car is positioned for older buyers (40+) who regularly carry teenagers or adults in the back seat. The back seat and the trunk are where the Five Hundred differentiates itself. I see the Camry and Malibu as its competition, and the Five Hundred is much more attractive than either of those two cars. I think Ford is leaving the Mazda 6 to compete with more performance oriented cars like the Altima or Accord. I'm not sure where I'd put the Passat in here.

Anyway, I used to have a Maxima with ~180 hp and 180 ft-lbs of torque. That car weighed about 3300 lbs. and it more than met my acceleration needs. Personally, I would gladly give up 0.5 seconds on my 0-60 time for 5-10% better fuel economy. I try and avoid drag race situations, so I'd only benefit from acceleration every so often. However, I benefit from better fuel economy every time I drive.

mrmoose000 · August 2004

When I look at the 300C I see the short man's car(no offense to anyone). Its the car that says look at me, i'm cooler than you because everything is chrome. It seems to be the car for the people who need to make a statement. It is too bold. Big engine because I have to prove that I am better than you. Just because it is different doesn't mean it will succeed. I look at that car and say some of it is cool but other than that...

IT LOOKS LIKE A SHOEBOX

We have seen this before with the Hummer 2...lots of buzz about something different...heck i even thought it was cool at the beginning but now I wonder why anyone would buy one...the buzz is gone...

The Five-Hundred will not shoot off the lots in epic fashion like the 300C fell prey to bald, 5'5", divorced, 42 year old men. It will find the people who want the elegant smooth ride...Normal people who don't need 6,000 horsepower to go buy a gallon of milk. It is best to make a car that fits in the middle of the pack, where most people fit in. I don't care if people think it is bland, I think this car screams "Yeah, I know what I'm doing." It has a silent "James Bond-Like" confidence about it. This car will take everyone by surprise.

Classy.

exalteddragon1 · August 2004

That they put the wood trim on the door sides as well as the dash. If your gonna do a good interrior, do it right...

dave2222 · August 2004

The interiors beautiful. Look at how high quality the materials are.
[img]http://www.fordvehicles.com/fivehundred/images/pho/popups/fv- h05_inpho_popup_4.jpg[/img]

a_l_hubcaps · August 2004

Wow, that is a very boring door panel. It doesn't look cheap, but there's not much there to look at period.

-Andrew L

307web · August 2004

Well, the wood trim is fake and cheesy, so I don't know if it would have helped much. At least it looks super-clean, if yawn-inducing.
Of course, those pics could of pre-production models, so maybe they will add something like more chrome trim, accent colors or carpeted lower section to break the monotony.

ANT14 · August 2004

Not much you can do with side door panels. Just make them efficient, friendly on your elbow, easy to find buttons (lighted unlike many other manufacturer's), and easy to remove in case power windows need repair or such.

alpha01 · August 2004

I beg to differ. The ES330 and even the Camry XLE have very nicely appointed door panels.

~alpha

ANT14 · August 2004

Maybe a strip of wood, or some metallic looking piece might help, but I still find all door panels sort of bland. Last time I got excited over a door panel was the last generation Lincoln Mark8's...Maybe a Ford Probe, how they had the side air register's thru the door panel (different, but stupid since you opened a door and the air would shoot out from the side directly).

I myself have an issue with these "canted towards the world" center dashboard consoles. Again, Mark8 had it canted towards the driver, Probe, Aurora (all dead now- hmmm link ?)...While dashboards now are canted centrally for passenger involvement ( I want them to have NO CONTROL over the buttons ), but obviously, different tastes...

mschmal · August 2004

FINALLY, ford has given up on those stupid window switches where you push the top half of the switch for down and the bottom half of the switch for up...you almost have to look at the switch to hit the correct part.

On these japanese style (i call it that because its same as in mazdas handas and toyotas.) you push down on the switch to lower and pull on the switch for close the window.

Its good to know that even Ford is still willing to change for the better even if it means abandoning long held methods...

Now if only we can get the government in on change for the better........

Mark

ANT14 · August 2004

Yes, Ford will be implementing 'idiot proof' window switches. These will help with a rash of irrespinsible parents who leave their kids inside the vehicles unattended, and prevents kids from accidentally catching their heads on it.

frasierdog · August 2004

MGM doors have a safety light on the edge of the door. On coming traffic can see when the door is open. The light is also useful for providing more interior light.

This is not nitpicking this is cheap!

Cheap cheap cheap. I though someone fired ol' Jack N. the cheap a**.

exalteddragon1 · August 2004

THe government is doing just fine, with our new tax cits we can actually afford to buy a 500 lol.

But would we want to? How dare you have a car that is called your flagship, and not have features that are available within your own family of vehicles in the lowest ranges?

For example, the Mazda 3 has a nav system option, and i think Xenon headlamps. Wre are they ford? And I don't think the wood is cheasy, i agree with other posts that said it could be on the door panel to brighten it up a bit.

If its a mistake not having Nav in the 500, not having it in the montego is a disaster. Montego should have everything standard if they want to differentiate themselves from ford. the nav, the xenon, and the LED headlamps. I'll pay a premium for that.

The engine, look we can ague about the 300's design which i like even though its german owned, the point is that powerful engines mean powerful sales, all else equal (quality, price, etc).

I heared they are going to make over 100,000 of them this year alone.

http://www.allpar.com/news/index.php?action=fullnews&id=117

about 12000 last month, if it continues growint the way it is...

badgerfan · August 2004

Ford introduces a six speed or CVT transmission, optional all wheel drive, a whole host of new features like the biggest trunk in its class, fold flat rear and front passenger seats, world class safety structure, all kinds of other goodies, and they are labeled "cheap" for having a relatively plain door panel and no side marker lamps on the doors.

Sometimes you just can't win. This is not a luxury sedan folks, it is still meant to be a fairly high volume sedan that is affordable to a relatively large demographic.

I guess this proves some people will never be satisfied. Heck, some people have been complaining in the Honda Accord discussions about elimination of the glove box light and the passenger side key lock (not to mention their V-6 transmission recall) You can nitpick just about any car on the market, from a lowly Kia to a six figure luxury yacht.

ANT14 · August 2004

I have yet to own/or know, the perfect vehicle...No matter how expensive or how powerful, it's my job to nitepick pros/cons. But as everything in life, people will complain more than credit, and to think, the vehicle isn't out yet and people are killing it, heh...find it amusing.

badgerfan · August 2004

Not to nitpick, but will the 500 have dual sunvisors and childproof rear door locks? My 2000 Taurus SES has both. GM is slowly eliminating child proof locks. This a mistake I believe from a legal liability standpoint.

I really like the dual visors, they come in very handy at certain times in my daily commute when the sun is low.

The Taurus, by the way is rock solid, now at four years old and about to turn over 40k miles. Not single a squeak or rattle, which would be major nitpick issues on any car I would own, if they showed up.

buckwheat · August 2004

The AWD you spoke of is only available with the the CVT, NO AWD with the 6speed, the 6speed is made by "Aisin" which is 41% owned by Toyota. The CVT is entirely a Ford product, Ford had some guidance from German tranny maker "ZF", nonetheless quality becomes an issue because it's all new and made by Ford. The Duratec35 is another issue and won't make it into the first years of the Five Hundred/Montego unless and until they can make a CVT to handle it. There is a poster here that says they will get them from "Jatco" 82% owned by Nissan, the same used in the Murano that is able to handle the higher torque of the Duratec35, but officials at Nissan have publically denied any contemplation of such an arrangement with Ford.

grega · August 2004

I've been following this forum for a little while, find it amuzing and noted a "Global" door panel, identical on the European Ford Mondeo at:
http://autodeadline.com/detail?source=Ford&mid=WKA20040728389- 88&mime=JPG

Just another example of cost cutting by leveraging all parts of the auto.

On another note, I'm in Chicago and registered for Ford's Innovation Test Drive on Saturday. We'll get to "Drive" the 500, Freestyle and SuperDuties, plus get a close-up look at the 05 Mustang and awesome GT (wish I could drive that :-)

I'll send you my thoughts on the test drive this weekend, including the wife's view.

dave2222 · August 2004

In regards to the Navigation System it'll proably come either in 2006 or 2007. The five hundred will be getting a exterior redesign to look more like the Ford 427 concept. The Ford fusion will be the first car to embody the 427 styling. The 3.5L will also be introduced next year as another engine option as well as different interior and exterior colors and other minor changes. The montego will get a different styling from the five hundred in 2008 to further the differences between Mercury and Ford. Both the Five hundred and montego were designed at relatively the same time in 1999 before the rebuilding of mercury project had started. The design had already been laid out etc.. so for 2008 the new designs they have been working on will finally be executed. Glad this clears up any misconceptions. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles