Toyota Highlander Hybrid MPG-Real World Numbers

ulev · July 2005

I just filled my tank, just to track my MPG @ what I thought, from looking at the fuel gauge, was 1/2 full...
I pumped in 9.453 Gal. which scewed my MPG which @ 222.3 miles gave me 23.516 MPG ???? :mad:
HECK, my 1990 4 runner 3.0 V6 (which I still have) gave consistent 22 MPG avg...
The manual states that the HH has 17.2 Gal tank, so theoretically 1/2 tank should be 8.6 Gal. and an MPG of 25.84 MPG. :confuse: :confuse:

I am running both Odo A + B till I run on fumes to check out 'true' mileage figures...

nimhrod · July 2005

Ulev,

Unfortunately, most gas gauges are not calibrated. Meaning, that 1/2 tank on the gauge does not translate into 1/2 tank. That's why some cars seems to stay on "Full" for an eternity, then take a nose dive to the bottom of the pool after hitting 1/2 tank.

I'm sure some Detroit marketing genius came up with that idea.

Nimhrod

sbgirl · July 2005

Well, with my 3rd fill up it was 357 miles for 15 gallons = 23.8 mpg. I'm still trying to nail down on how I can make it switch to electric more often.

It seems like if I start off strong then ease off until it switches to electric and then keep a light foot on the gas pedal rather then slowly build up speed which will keep the gas going for a longer amount of time. Anybody have any other ideas?

bouvsrus · July 2005

Glad to reply; my family thinks I'm nuts because of my interest (they say obsession) with figuring out how to maximize mpg. Its my wife's car but I'm enjoying myself. Here are my best tips so far and would be great to hear from others.

First, I've read here and it appears to be true that passing 1000 miles and upwards will lead to gradual improvement in mpg. At 1300 miles that has been the case. (I've posted numbers in earlier posts so won't repeat here).

Second, take the car out on country roads where you are likely to encounter no traffic. I went out for an hour in rural area - - no one around, no cars behind you, you can vary speed, experiment. While not real world conditions its a good way to experiment and figure out how to maximize the electrice motor's use.

Third, I've found gradual acceleration is best as quick acceleration from start will always use more gas, hybrid or regular car. Yes, I can see where it would feel like you get to the electric motor quicker when you ease off the gas once you are at speed but still using more gas on fast start I suspect.

Fourth, maintain steady speed. Its hard to do in city driving, but on country roads I was amazed that I could hold at 40 mph and stay on electric for miles.

Last, cruise control. Early frustration with my seeming inability to find the "sweet spot" for maximizing the electric motor, I noticed on highway with cruise control on that the car itself seems to maximize electric (and better than my attempts at it manually/my foot). I normally never use cruise control, but perhaps a good reason to start.

By the way...on the country roads driving solely for purpose of hitting good mpg #'s, with occasional stop signs and slowing for turns, I hit 31 mpg over about 75 miles. Not real world conditions but nice to know the car can do that well.

One downside to trying to maximize mpg...it feels really, really good hitting the gas and feeling our HH take off like a shot. Its also amazing (although not gas efficient) zipping up entrance ramps and changing lanes in highway traffic. The HH is so responsive and so much torque. Something for everyone.

It would be great to hit closer to 30 than 25-27 mpg but our Expedition avg. 10 mpg (satisfaction depends in part, I think, on where you start from) and if I had to choose between 2-4 mpg vs. 6 cyl and plenty of power, for me, the ability to step on the gas and have the car move when you want outweighs chance for even better mileage.

Good luck.

darmock · July 2005

My experience directly supports bouvrus in post 943. My mpg has improved as I have tried to be more aware of the terrain and generally not to be in a hurry, either to start or stop. Cruise control seems to be a good tool. I have found the "current MPG" gauge in the multi-information display directly above the steering wheel to be the most useful. I try to maximize the instantaneous mpg in that display. I had been using the gas/elect 'arrow' icons there but found that to be less helpful. I have 1006 miles in and have gotten 28.9, 30.4 and 32.5 calculated MPG for each of the three tanks of gas I have used. The first tank was from the dealer. The second had a lot of highway miles and the third was about 25% highway. Interestingly, the NAV screen is reporting 30.5 cumlative mpg over the 1000 miles. This is exactly the same result I get from calculating the mpg myself. Now that I believe the computer (I think), I can reset the NAV and get more immediate feedback on how to best drive the HH for max MPG.

Toyota could really help this effort by providing more data and readouts, perhaps in the area occupied by the power meter.

I have an AWD limited, a light foot, use AC very sparingly.

Good luck.

sbgirl · July 2005

Well, I just passed 1000 miles so I'll keep an eye on it. Thanks for the tips, I've been following some of them since I drove it home. I'll have to try taking it out on the back roads and see what I can learn.

ulev · July 2005

Well I finally filled up the tank, in of all places, the near west side of Chicago...@ $2.759/gal Reg...

As I was INTENT on running on fumes, before I filled up in order to assess 'true' gas mileage.

I noted that at the 'bottom' of the fuel indicator, with low gas light glowing, I still had approx. 2+ gallons left in reserve, or approx 50 miles.

I 'filled up' with 15.006 gals. and drove 392.5 miles...for an MPG of 26.156 !
This was mostly highway driving 60-70 mph, with the air on almost constantly during this 90+ period.

I think that is pretty da_n good ! for the first tank full and encountered conditions.

My only gripe, is that I have a 'normal' (15 gal) range of 400 miles...same as with my Tundra, although I am getting approx 10 mpg MORE.

But my fill-ups are still the same, in terms of frequency...

Technically, if I ran the 17.2 gal tank 'dry' I would have 449.88 total miles driven
VS. my Tundra @ 16.8 mpg @ 26.4 gals = 443.52 miles OR 6.36 miles LESS than the HH.... :surprise:

I was, frankly, hoping for more range...maybe it will improve after it hits the 1K mark, but I don't think it will do so by much more.

In favor of the HH, it does have more 'horsepower' than my Tundra, is much smoother with the CVT and is quicker than the 4.7 L V-8...

spencer327 · July 2005

Hi Ulev
Thanks for the info.
My HL(no H) regularly gets 25-26 MPG on the hwy between NY and Fla.However around town gets 14 to 15. My thought is if you drive mostly on hwys why spend the extra money. However around town when the battery really get used is the forte of these vehicles. Do you have a MPG # with mostly around town driving. I think that would convince me the extra money, complexity is worth it.
Thanks

tomslyck · July 2005

We're almost to 3,000 miles. My wife is a teacher and she was driving it for a few weeks on her 90 mile daily commute. The freeway went pretty fast on her morning drive but the evening commute was a 90 minute grind. She was getting 28.7 mpg. When her school year ended, I got the HH for my 9 mile stop-and-go daily commute. I had been getting 12 mpg in our Envoy, and I'm now getting 25.3 mpg in the HH. The mileage gets better after it warms up.

spencer327 · July 2005

Are you AWD 6cyl?
cranking out the #s for my driving.
10000 mpyear 3000 hwy, 7000 local sts using your #s
looks like a savings of $665/ year @$3.00 /gal
$3325 over a 5 year car loan.
Unknowns are added repairs/servicability, resale values, price of gas.change in driving, being green.This is not an easy decision.
It looks like the Toyota pricing has also done the math and priced these vehicles at a crossover point.
Your thoughts?

tomslyck · July 2005

We originally asked for the AWD, but the FWD was what came in so we took it. (From what I've read, Toyota sent most of the AWDs to cold climates, not Los Angeles.) Ours is a 6 cyl, Limited.

The numbers you worked up may only take commuting into account. We're driving the HH everywhere, while leaving our other car in the garage on the weekends and evenings. So we have almost 3,000 miles on it already in about a month and a half. So that's 24,000 per year.

I think the reality will be somewhere between our two numbers.

We went for the 100,000 mile extended warranty so I don't think repairs are going to be a big issue. I'm counting on the resale value to be pretty good in a few years. By then, gas prices could be in the $3-$3.50 range or higher and my HH will be even more of a value for a used car buyer.

The bottom line is that I enjoy taking the next step in the direction that the automotive industry is going. When we see a Hummer H3 or Land Rover LR3 driving down the street, all I can think is "That's soooooo 20th century."

fizban · July 2005

I 'filled up' with 15.006 gals. and drove 392.5 miles...for an MPG of 26.156 !
This was mostly highway driving 60-70 mph, with the air on almost constantly during this 90+ period.

I'm far west side Chicago (gas is currently 2.25/gal out here). I experienced exactly the same mpg as you did under the same conditions (26.1 mpg traveling the interstate with the air on). The computed and the actual came out identical. I'm anxious to see how well it does just beatin' around town. I wonder how much the FWD option knocks one down?

danomighty · July 2005

I live in a very hilly area. I get between 22.5 and 24 MPG if the car is used only in our area. I have to drive very slowly (not practical with traffic) to get the higher mileage with lots of up and down hills. Anyone else have experience in a hilly area. What would the mileage on the regular Highlander be in the same type of area?
For comparison, on the highway I generally can get over 25mpg and once got 30mpg for a 60 mile trip (according to the computer). Generally I'm in cruse control at about 65mph on the highway.

phoebeisis · July 2005

danomighty.What was the mileage of your previous vehicle?Current other vehicles if you have another car?Hills kill mpg,no doubt about it,even coasting down the hills doesn't give you back what you lost going up because of drag,rolling resistance.Heck,you will rarely use your brakes going uphill,and most folks coast down,so not much recaptured energy saved.The electric motor just doesn't have the power to pull a 4400 lb vehicle uphill at speed,so you are usually on the gasoline motor.
Let us know what you other prior vehicle got.Yes,your mpg seems right-all vehicles suffer mpg on hills.Thanks.Charlie

phoebeisis · July 2005

There are some mpg fanatics spread all over the web-some of them getting 90-100 mpg for full fillups with the Prius.Obviouslt they can't be driving normally,but it might make sense to hunt up one of their discussions to see what they do on hills.
I haven't gotten my Hybrid yet,so I don't have a dash in front of me to really verify that riding the brakes slightly while going downhill will work.You would want to apply them very lightly so most of the braking is from the little generator-coil-alternator(or whatever it actually is) being spun through the mag field.You don't want much actual pad to rotor pressure.I would guess you have some sort of charging readout;if this works,it should show electrical energy being stored.If you wait untill the bottom of the hill to brake,and have to suddenly brake them the "real" brakes will come into play more than you want-you want as much braking as possible to be "generator" braking. Luck.Charlie

ulev · July 2005

I also reside in a somewhat 'hilly' area and I am pleasantly surprised that my current mileage indicator does not 'dip' at all when returning home from a longer trip. i.e. no ICE participation...

I have two steep hills prior to my driveway, and I watch the (non-Ltd) gauge max ou, and stay that way as I reach the top. Granted, I do this with no traffic behind me and I do slow appreciably, but I do not stop.
The ICE does kick in when I reach my driveway, but only for a moment.

It has cooled considerably here with heavy rain fall, the HH seems to prefer this type of weather over the high heat (97+) that we experienced this weekend.

Driving home today it seemed to have more 'pep'...maybe it's
just me....

danomighty · July 2005

When I go down the longer hills mostly coasting with some braking I end up with a fully charged battery. I even see it go from blue to green (fully charged). I have tried to use the battery as much as possible but find that I can easily totally discharge the battery if I do everything right to manage the acceleration. So essentially, the battery can't hold enough of the down hill charge that I could regenerate if it had more capacity. If I drive unacceptably slow for the traffic patterns I can increase the mileage to the mid 20's in my area. It much easier to run slower than traffic on highways....however many say that is dangerous to drive way bellow traffic speeds. Driving at 65 on the highways seems to work ok. Does any find mileage go up if you drive slower than that?

danomighty · July 2005

I previously drove a subaru outback AWD in the same area and got similar milleage as the Highlander. The Highlander is obviously heavier so I'm ok with the milleage. I was hoping to see more of the improvement of city milleage.

Has anyone done much driving in traffic and see the increase in milleage into the 30's mpg? I'm actually driving into the city tomorrow and will see what results I get.

phoebeisis · July 2005

danomighty,I have been collecting results(about 30 now) of mpg results from folks on this forum.I last posted maybe a week or so ago with maybe 15 results.The average is ~26 mpg.I think there have been 1-2 reports of 30+mpg fillups.Most folks report 25+ with the middle result being about the same as the average-say (26-27mpg).Results lately have trended very slightly downward(early buyers are probably more mpg fanatic than later buyers).The running average in several months is probably not going to much less than the current average.
Once-if-folks find the sweet spots on the HH,and the best way to optimize their commute route mpg,we might see more "high" results.I'm guessing there is a little learning curve for the humans.The Prius fanatics have developed some techniques to increase mpg,but I haven't spent enought time there to decipher their jargon(reboot in respect to car for example?).Some of what they are doing might be warranty voiding"stuff"(and I bet these vehicles keep a record of such things),but I'm just guessing in that respect.Thanks.Charlie PS Let us know about your trip mpg.

hongcho · July 2005

As for the keeping track of mileages, maybe people should try http://www.greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/ and log their results.

Hong.

longislandhh · July 2005

OK here goes about 4 cars back (different makes and models) the Odometer reading on my new car read about 25 miles higher on a trip to Boston than the same trip in my old car or my friends car. Since this would drastically shorten the cars warranty I took the car back to the dealer who agreed that it was off and installed a new speedometer/odometer.

Since then I check each new car I buy(or when I replace the tires) by comparing the Odometer/Trip meter to the road side mileage markers on 3 different interstate highways over a distance of 100 miles. In all cases while the distance on the
Trip meter read the same for each highway they always differed from the 100 miles by about 1% high to 3% low. Being low doesnt bother me since this extends the warranty.

Now when I calculate the MPG on my cars I always do it after a fill up (to the brim) from the same pump. What I found on my HH is that when I went 100 miles both the Odometer/Trip meter incorporated in the speedometer module and the Trip meter in the navigation system both showed 97 miles. To adjust for this in my MPG readings and/or calculation of my MPG I multiply the results by 1.0309 (for my HH) to get a more accurate MPG value.

I currently have 1,400 miles on my HH and am getting 28 MPG for both highway and suburban driving.

I was wondering if anyone else out there ever bothered to check the accuracy of their Odometer/Trip meter readings.

ameredith · July 2005

All I have read all the posts, and not one compares either the HH or the 400h to a vehicle I feels to which it needs to be compared. Its MPG SHOULD be compared to a V8 suv. You have all the power of a V8, but can ANYONE here that has had a V8 suv gotten 25+ mpg. Instead of comparing this vehicle to another V6 model compare it to a V8 because that it the performance your getting.

gagrice · July 2005

There have been several comparisons to V8 Midsize SUVs. Especially the RX400h to BMW, MB & Porsche Cayenne. The bottom line is it is still a V6 and there are Midsize V6 SUVs that will out run and outperform the hybrids. So comparisons leave a lot of unanswered questions. If you like the hybrid SUV, buy it. Don't expect to recoup the premium in gas savings. It ain't gonna happen. You get a nice quiet ride and a green glow will surround you. My major complaint is that the dealers are gouging those that would be the first to set an example for the rest. And Toyota goes along with it.

phoebeisis · July 2005

gagrice,you are right of course,the dealer gouging is the worst aspect of buying any hybrid.Ford dealers are even spinning that tale for the Escape Hybrid-which isn't in any great demand that I can see(it really could be if it were a 4cyl high-H or Rav 4-but Ford has to prove itself first).
The Prius can finally be bought most places for MSRP and a bit less.The dealers were regularly sticking folks for $5000= over MSRP which meant they would NEVER recoup relative to say a Corolla or Civic.Really too bad,but Toyota doesn't have much control over dealers.They can't withhold vehicles from rapacious dealers-against their contract with the dealers.Of course this is capitalism,so we really can't beef-just don't buy,and remember who the bad boys were-spread the word and name names.Folks seem to be reluctant to reveal dealers names-good and bad-online.
I checked Consumer Reports for data on various midsized Lux SUV's and the only one that I would guess(CR hasn't tested the HH or RX400 yet,so I have to use other folks acceleration data and extrapolate-guess-what it would get in CR's mpg tests)outperforms the the HH is the various Turbo versions of the Cayenne(450 and 500 hp).I think that the non turbo Cayenne 300+hp will accelerate about as fast as the much lighter(4400 lbs vs >5000lbs) HH or RX400.The V-6 Toureg $37000-44000 is a miserable performer acceleration and mpg wise-11.9-0-60 and 15 mpg mixed mpg vs RX330 8.8 18 MPG MIXED.
Pretty much the same story for the MB V8(302 HP,but 4800+ lbs).
All these other lux SUVs are more expensive to much more expensive than the HH or RX400.None of them that match the RX400 price ,match it's acceleration or mpg (my guess of mpg-I think CR will get 21mpg mixed-3 mpg better than the RX330-my guess of course,but reasonable-I think).CR's.Most of these lux SUV's get 12-13 mpg in CR's city loop.I'm guessing the HH will get about 14-15 mpg on CR's city loop which is very good.For example a 4 cyl Accord get 16 mpg on CR's city loop.The Accord Hybrid gets 18 mpg on the city loop.The Accord V-6 gets 15 mpg city loop.My2- 3mpg better than the V-6 RX330 comes from the Accord V-6 vs Accord Hybrid. 3 mpg difference.The heavy HH might benefit more than the Accord in the city,and Toyota's Hybrids do a bit better than Honda's in general.
Well,just a guess,but the numbers I see favor the HH -RX400 vs other midsized lux SUVs in acceleration-price and mpg.Safety is a wash,and reliability is all Toyota-Lexus-;the MB-Volks-BMW aren't very good reliability wise.Thanks.Charlie

tomslyck · July 2005

I never expected to get the EPA 33 mpg city, but I figured it wouldn't take much to improve on the 12 mpg I was getting in a 2002 Envoy (vs. EPA of 16 mpg city). The 25 mpg that I'm getting on my HH FWD is more than twice the Envoy's. That means I'm going to the gas station every two weeks instead of every week. Of course, I tend to have a heavy foot.

I don't understand how the NYT writer only got in the 21 range. My commute has to be the worst for mileage. It's only 4.5 miles each way and it averages a stop sign every two blocks.

But mileage was only one reason I bought mine. There's the geopolitics, the environment, and the gee-whiz factor. And I'm also counting on a decent resale value when I go to sell the HH in five years (especially compared to those 12 mpg SUVs I'll be competing with).

skip1 · August 2005

When the light for the fuel came on, I ended up putting 15.2 gals in the tank. This was also my first fill up and I wanted to see how much I would have left. I also had 30.3 mpg on the computer for that tank. Currently I have 29.9 mpg for about 225 miles. We also have a Prius that we have driven for the last 5 years. This may help our skills in driving the HH limited awd for the mileage we have had so far.

I wont see what the final for this tank will be:. Since I will be giving it along one day trip from Milwaukee to NYC, Which is about 900 miles on Wed. for a vacation to see our grandchildren. We alway drive straight through. And travel at about 70~75. I plan on not reseting the computer to see what the mpg will be for the trip out there. Flat land and mountain driving.

I will post my results when I return on Aug 15th or 16th when I get back

gazguzler · August 2005

You putting in 15.2 when the light came on may not tell us how much was left in the tank . . . when you consider that my experience with getting another 2 gallons in after pump cut-off. Maybe you were about to run out?

My salesman is über knowledgeable and he says, based on the ordinary Highlander, there should be 1.5 gallons at the first sign of a light.

But radios Click and Clack Bro.s long ago got this theory right. Theres only one way to tell. Have a can of fuel in the back and go till you run out. Put the 5 gallons in and then straight to a pump and fill and then youll know. Ill be doing that and reporting the result. Though, with this rubberized tank, maybe theyre not all the same size?

Like many others, Im finding the 12v batterys too small. I wonder if anyones replaced it yet and how big can you go? Looks like you can move the wiper fluid filler tube and get a reasonably large battery in there.

toyotaken · August 2005

Just a suggestion, but on ANY vehicle, it is very rough on the fuel pump and engine components when you run out of gas. Secondly, before you run your vehicle out of gas entirely, check with the service department. I haven't had any experience with the HH yet, but with customers who own Prius's, when running out of gas, it is a quite a bit more involved than just putting a can of gas into the tank and taking off again. I honestly can't recall what the difficulties are, but they necessitate a trip to the dealer to get certain things reset or the such from what I recall. Just a suggestion before you run it out of gas.

Ken

badboy99 · August 2005

Ken I have run out of gas twice! It ONLY requires a can of gas to get going...

The thing is when someone or yourself is driving and not used to your car they will try and keep going on fuel light because you have a Hybrid and they think they can drive for ever!

toyotaken · August 2005

That was exactly what happeded with one of our customers. It was an older lady who had just picked up her Prius and didn't know that you had to actually fill it at the gas station.

Just as a question, did you run your HH out of gas or just your normal ICE vehicle out? The reason I ask is that I have known several owners of Prius's who have and it was a bit of a chore to get it up and going again, not just getting gas in the tank.

Thanks

Ken

ulev · August 2005

Well I finally filled up the tank, in of all places, the near west side of Chicago... $2.759/gal Reg...

As I was INTENT on running on fumes, before I filled up in order to assess 'true' gas mileage.

I noted that at the 'bottom' of the fuel indicator, with low gas light glowing, I still had approx. 2+ gallons left in reserve, or approx 50 miles.

I 'filled up' with 15.006 gals. and drove 392.5 miles...for an MPG of 26.156 !
This was mostly highway driving 60-70 mph, with the air on almost constantly during this 90+ period.

I think that is pretty da_n good ! for the first tank full and encountered conditions.

My only gripe, is that I have a 'normal' (15 gal) range of 400 miles...same as with my Tundra, although I am getting approx 10 mpg MORE.

But my fill-ups are still the same, in terms of frequency...

Technically, if I ran the 17.2 gal tank 'dry' I would have 449.88 total miles driven
VS. my Tundra 16.8 mpg 26.4 gals = 443.52 miles OR 6.36 miles LESS than the HH....

I was, frankly, hoping for more range...maybe it will improve after it hits the 1K mark, but I don't think it will do so by much more.

In favor of the HH, it does have more 'horsepower' than my Tundra, is much smoother with the CVT and is quicker than the 4.7 L V-8...

My MPG since I posted this actually has gone DOWN....possibly due to the heat.
However, I must concur with others on this board that this vehicle does better in a 'commuter' type environment, 'rubber-banding' down the freeway, instead of continious highway driving @ 65-70 mph.

One consolation is the V8 pickup with a V6...surprised an Audi A4 driver who thought he'd 'scoot round 'me today on LSD (Lake Shore Drive)

ssachnoff · August 2005

I'm an HH driver who also lives in Chicago. (I started this board long ago; I'm the one who drove up to Madison, WI to get the FWD w/option (no NAV, natch.))

I just finished a "whirlwind" tour to Canton and Columbus, OH and back in 5 days to visit the in-laws. Averaging 70, closer to 75 mph with the AC blasting, I got about 26.5 mpg the first tank and then a little lower the second tank. I, too, drove my HH for a couple Hyde Park to Evanston trips after the low fuel light came on. Scary but filled up to about 15 1/2 gallons. All in all, I love the car. I am, however, seriously thinking about replacing the 12 volt battery because of need to power multiple accessories (laptop, CB radio, etc.) on long trips. Also worried about cranking power come next January when the "hawk" is blowing.

phoebeisis · August 2005

ssachoff,good mpg.I will eventually repost the 30+ mpg entries we have all in one bunch.The bottom line is a 25-26 mpg average(average of entries not actual average because most folks don't give miles and gallons.It wouldn't matter-it would be the same 25-26-closer to 26mpg) and the middle mpg number(median??) is the same 25-26.This is pretty spectacular mpg for mixed driving.
I visited the CRV forum;it is a SUV that is close in size,but has a 4 cyl,so it might challenge the HH on MPG.There were about 6 postings for the 2005 CRV-some 4x4 most auto.The CRV has the same 22-27 rating for the 4x2 and 4x4-pretty remarkable.But.... their entries averaged about -23 mpg.The best was 27.5 worst was 20.?forget what the 1/10th was).So,the CRV won't beat the HH mpg wise,it is a pile slower(10.5 vs 7.3) and a bit smaller.I would expect similar results from a 4 cyl Highlander.The 4 cyl should be very close to the HH on pure hy MPG,but city mpg will be all HH.
Now is it worth $10,000 more??Up to you.Charlie

darmock · August 2005

Charlie, Great points. I have a 2002 CRV and a 2006 HH. IMO, there is no comparison between the CRV and the HH. I had 45,000 great miles in the CRV and then I drove my HH. The HH does cost between 10-15K more but they are wolrlds apart. As you have well said, "Is the difference worth it?" - that is a personal decision. Both are designed to realize a goal. I submit that the goals are different. I love the HH. My kids love the CRV.

Larry

phoebeisis · August 2005

Larry,the CRV is very nice,good handling,good mpg,good resale,very relaible-a typical Honda.I like Hondas-I have a Pilot and have had others.The HH is all that with a bit more interior room,and a lot more acceleration .It is all but a RX400 with more interior room.I don't know what possible options they could put in the RX400 to make it worth $10000-$15000 more than a HH???
HH buyers are getting a bit of a free lunch($38000 free,ha,ha) at the expense of the RX400 owners.They pay $10000-$15000 to get less interior room,but the exact same drivetrain??Now I would really feel taken if I paid the $55000 some early RX400 buyers paid.
If I trade the Pilot,I'll miss it,but I won't miss 12-15 mpg city.Charlie

johnny_5 · August 2005

Just bought my hybrid. Damn the thing takes off! I shouldn't have walked into the Toyota Dealership that day, but I had to check these puppies out. After I did, I traded in my '03 highlander (did i do the right thing?) for the HH. Right now, things are great. I got 433 miles off a tank of gas for my first refill. (About 100 miles more than my '03, and 31 MPG AVG) Supposedly it is a 17 gallon tank. I only filled up 13 gallons and some change, and I was less than a quarter tank. How is everyone else doing?

falconone · August 2005

You made the right move because it made you happy. Financially, it is NOT the best move. Most people here are passionate about cars so we tend to let our judgment get clouded. Enjoy the car!!

johnny_5 · August 2005

You are right. My urge to take one home overrode everything else. Financially not a smart move though. I bought my '03 with a thousand miles on it, and got a big price drop that year. I was hoping to get the same thing with a hybrid. But I think people will tend to embrace these vehicles a little tighter than their gas-only cousins. I figured on taking a gamble with a lease to own. It was the only way to drop the payments on these babies to a down to earth figure that some normal people can pay.Hopefully, the resale value will be more than what I owe after the lease is up. But like many other Toyota owners, I plan on taking this car to the grave.

phoebeisis · August 2005

Johnny 5 what sort of mpg were you getting with your 03 Highlander?Was it a 4 cyl or a V-6?
You might come out alright over the life of your HH ,if you keep it a long time and plenty of miles-I'm assuming you were killed on trade etc.Still your break even could be a possible 150,000-175,000 miles-you would have never broken even if you traded your 03 High for a regular v-6 Highlander-with the HH there is that possibility.
I still think(but when CR come in with their numbers it will be more or less than"thought")that the HH will break even relative(now ignoring tax benefits and assuming a $6000 difference) to a V-6 highlander if you live in a city-suburban traffic area and keep it for 120,000 miles.You wil also have a "better" cleaner car for all those miles.Of course this is just my doodling until CR comes with real world numbers(unless you want to concede EPA numbers??)Charlie

phoebeisis · August 2005

Thanks Wes,appreciate your understanding-my big goof.Other business
HAS ANYONE OUT THERE GOTTEN A 20 MPG-OR LESS-FILLUP???
I have been tracking "fillups" on you folks.I have about 40 and the average is ~26mpg.The middle number is about that also.Now you early buyers are probably fairly mpg conscious,so maybe I'm getting biased numbers.Maybe folks who are getting poor numbers-like the NYT poison pen article-just are so disgusted they aren't inclined to post their numbers??
Give us you bad numbers!!??Please?!Now,we don't want instantenous low readings,just full fillup readings.
Frankly,I think the 26 mpg average isn't a bit biased.HH buyers are all going to be mpg conscious,and if early buyers are more so,it will be balanced out by even better mpg as they get more adept at maxing mpg .I think most of the buyers are new to Hybrids,so there must be a learning curve.I also don't picture anyone here being shy about complaining about poor mpg.
26 MPG is probably a very representative number.It certainly is in keeping with the Prius numbers which are about 48 mpg in mixed driving,or about 80% of EPA city.25 mpg would be 80% of 31 and 26.5 would be 80% of 33 mpg.
Any poor fillups out there in HH land.?Thanks.Charlie PS Still no CR numbers on the RX400 or HH.

gagrice · August 2005

HAS ANYONE OUT THERE GOTTEN A 20 MPG-OR LESS-FILLUP???

At least a couple people reported those kind of numbers on the RX400h thread. They were treated like misfits and I have not seen them post again. These threads are dominated by pro hybrid posters. Anyone that does not fall into line is ostracized. So you will have a hard time finding posters that will admit to low mileage.

johnny_5 · August 2005

Charlie,
I would get about 325 miles to the tank of my old '03 highlander. (and that was almost pushing the red line!) Thankfully, I had made equity already on my 03, making about $3000 on the trade in. The resale value for my old Highlander was $19,500. Not bad, making out only after a couple years of payments!

carz89 · August 2005

I bought my HH 2-1/2 weeks ago, FWD base model. Just had first fill-up, 318 miles, 15.5 gallons. I was shocked at the poor 20.5 mpg. Not much better than the regular V6 highlander at 19 mpg (city). I've done nothing but San Diego city driving, short commutes to work or local errands. Average 5 miles commute to work, lots of stoplights. A/C off in the morning, continuously running in the afternoon.

Is this to be expected based on my short commute (I heard the engine needs to run a lot to get the catalytic converter up to temperature)? I also think that the A/C is killing my mileage.

I've been reading pieces about "pulse and glide" method. Will try this method as much as possible when I drive, but there's no way I'm going to convince my wife to do the same (she and I alternate driving our "nice car" to work). She's not technically-minded like me and just wants a car she can drive the "normal way" without thinking about it.

I'm still getting better mileage than I did in my 96 RAV4 2wd 5speed. Much smaller, lighter car, smaller engine, yet I was getting 16-18 mpg in the same exact driving conditions.

johnny_5 · August 2005

:P I hope this helps at least a little to those looking to purchase a HH.

1st tank of gas got me 433 miles
2nd tank only 348, and the fuel light came on. Filled 14.4 Gal at the pump (Let the wife drive it for a few days alone)

Right now, I am trying to ease a little more from my current driving habits to maximize MPG. I am using cruise control a little more, and trying to coast on the road when I can. My goal is to beat my 1st fillup.

rspro · August 2005

My new HH LTD 4WD is getting great mileage. My commute is 20 miles, mostly stretches of about a mile between stops, speeds between 30 - 45. The speed limit varies between 30 - 45 and the prevailing traffic flows at this speed. I have no problems doing long stretches on battery alone at about 35. After getting up to speed, feather back the throttle and the car will alternate running on battery and regenerating. The weather has been 90s, AC on auto and 75 degrees. Off the in-car meter I'm currently at 29.2 MPG, my calculated at fillups have been at 26.2, 28 and 28. For all of you disappointed after first tank, be aware that the FULL TANK you get from the dealership my not be "filled the brim". I would discard any first tank measurement unless you pumped it yourself.

gazguzler · August 2005

The car's better than it seems, at first. Either it gets more efficient or you learn how to drive it better. AC's a big issue but I see that they say the winter's even worse for consumption (according to Pruis manual).

3000 miles ago, I was complaining like everyone else.

The tank is a big issue, too. I've now been able to get 3 gallons in after auto cut off. Other times one gallon and plenty of two extras. I see the Highlander groups talk about a 19.5 gallon tank. So, the cut off can vary . . . how can you measure that? I now fill till I can see the gasoline and I'm getting accurate readings.

And it's getting 29.5 without me trying with mainly hwy miles. I'm going fast (today 100mph for stretches because we were running late) and not trying to get good mileage but I am watching the computer to see when the engines kicking in and, when possible, backing off to keep it electric a minute longer, which doesnt alter speed.

If I tried I could get better than EPA numbers. All you need is professional interior sound insulation, duct tape for the mirrors and extra dark window tint. Then you can drive it at the speed of a golf cart and you wont hear the honking or see the obscene signs of other drivers.

:-)

Again, it could be so much better if theyd done this on the 4cyl engine they had in the Highlander and if theyd designed the electric motors for consumption, instead of quick acceleration (it always keeps a reserve incase you need to overtake a Ferrari).

But I am nearly convinced that it doesn't, in fact, get better mileage in city than hwy. I think they're the same and maybe hwy's better. Which is counter-counterintuitive.

rspro · August 2005

I am convinced that people jump to conclusions prematurely on the MPG. Depending on where you decide to stop pumping after the auto cutoff, you may be 1-2 gallons different in the tank. If you drove 390 miles and fill up with 14 gallons at cutoff, your calculated MPG is 26. If you were able to squeeze in another gallon, mpg is at 24.3, yet another gallon yields 22.75. Only a long term trend will be the true measure. I am very pleased with my results so far, glad to hear that the car improves with age.

nsxwes · August 2005

I just drove round trip from Sacramento to San Diego on Interstate 5 - 1,075 miles. I spent most of the time in the fast lane where traffic was travelling between 75 and 80 mph. Traffic was heavy as usual in the LA and San Diego region where the average speed was much slower. The gas mileage for the total trip came in at a respectable 27.8 mpg. As you can imagine, the HH hardly even noticed the Grapevine

My appreciation for what Toyota has done with this vehicle increases as the miles stack up. There may not be a lot of people that agree with me, but I would purchase a Highlander Hybrid over a standard Highlander regardless of gas mileage. I bought it for the gas mileage, but have come to enjoy the performance even more. The combination of the two is fantastic.

Wes

sbgirl · August 2005

I completely agree with the last couple of sentences. I absolutely love the performance and its a huge plus in my commute as the freeway onramp is very short and I need to conquer a steep hill.
On the Grapevine, that was the first time ever where I felt that I didn't need to be concerned with people on my bumper. I drive that route typically once a year so from now on, I'm looking forward to it.

stevedebi · August 2005

"I'm still getting better mileage than I did in my 96 RAV4 2wd 5speed. Much smaller, lighter car, smaller engine, yet I was getting 16-18 mpg in the same exact driving conditions."

Unfortunately, you have hit on one of the problems with hybrid technology. The engine needs to warm up to get it's best mileage, so on short trips it can be pretty bad. A medium length commute would be far better. I suggest you check out the "driving tips" for optimizing mileage and see if you can't adjust your driving patterns to get better MPG.

BTW, I'm shocked at the 96 RAV4, my 2003 CR-V (a larger and heavier vehicle) gets 21-22 in driving such as you describe.

Toyota Highlander Hybrid MPG-Real World Numbers

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles