Cadillac CTS/CTS-V

johnnylinc · October 2002

You're confusing production figures with sales figures; the AutoNews site reports the number of vehicles built, not the number sold. In August, LS sales were 4,134 units & CTS sales were 3,419 units. In September, LS sales were 3,547 units, and CTS sales were 3,277 units. These figures are from Ford and GM press releases.

You're correct about the R&T comparison test. For some reason, R&T chose to include an '01 LS V6 manual in this test rather than the '02 model that had a horsepower & torque upgrade. I don't think the LS was given a fair shake in the article, but they didn't say it was a bad car, either.

You say that legroom is still painfully cramped, but you can't really know that for sure until you sit in an '03 LS, and they're not on sale yet. You're correct in saying that the manual transmission has been dropped from the LS for '03; the problem was that sales volume didn't justify keeping it in production. It's a shame; the reluctance of dealers to stock the manual LS probably hastened its demise.

Like cadillac1, I want the LS AND the CTS to succeed; it's high time that American manufacturers started getting the respect they deserve for building cars that are world-class competitive. I'm also anxious to see a comparison test that includes the '03 LS and the '03 CTS; it only seems fair that the same year model be used if a reasonable assessment is to be made.

This discussion should really be taking place in the comparison forum, but I wanted to set the record straight; the Detroit News article is accurate regarding sales figures.

cdnpinhead · October 2002

Lincoln is trying to burn inventory of the '02 (and, God forbid '01's and prior) before they make a splash with the '03. The '03 is enough better than the '02's that the Lincoln brain trust (forgive the oximoron) figured that they'd better clean the shelves.

And so they are, with 0% financing and God-knows what else. Lots of LS's are being sold. Even more may be when the '03 is released . . . or not.

I won't buy another until they re-introduce the manual. If they don't, I'll be taking a hard look at the Cadillac, along with the cars the LS & CTS were designed to compete with.

Last we heard in LS-land, Lincoln is only interested in competing with Cadillac -- they've given up completely competing with BMW, Infiniti & Lexus. You gotta love it when the initial vision of a new vehicle (sold in Europe, manual trans capable of running the autobahns all day at 120+ mph, with a diesel to follow) is completely derailed. I hope you folks don't have to endure this. If you stay focused (as the LS hasn't), you may carry the day.

fav002 · October 2002

Glad you like the pictures. The digital camera I'm using is a Canon Powershot S100 very similar to this S200. It has a 2x optical zoom which takes great pictures like 1st one in front of the track, but the 4x digital zoom loses some clarity and makes images a bit pixelated like the pictures 2 , and 3, taken from a distance with the digital zoom. Overall, I really like it for it's great clarity given it's size; it fits in my pocket and doesn't need a case. I highly recommend this Canon Powershot line for anyone who's in the market for a compact digital camera.

-FAV002

fav002 · October 2002

The problem I had on the road course was that on parts of the track the car was climbing past the redline in 2nd and wanted to be in 3rd. As soon as I slammed 3rd, I was too low in the powerband to effectively maneuver through certain corners. The same thing happened in 3rd at certain points on the course, where I was redlining and as soon as I hit 4th my RPMs were a bit too low. I'm sure with more practice I'll become familiar with the optimal shift points as a function of position on the track.

I ran my first lap with traction control on and could feel the system restrain the car during excessive maneuvers. During the second and third laps, I had traction control off, but Stabilitrac on. Stabilitrac was barely noticeable, except under really hard cornering combined with overly abrupt braking when it felt like a big hand was coaxing the car in a different direction than my inputs directed it to go. Stabilitrac really saved my @$$ once when I went into the 90-degree sweeper way too hot after the high speed of the back straightaway! My last two laps with run with both systems off and I felt that I had to be much more mindful of my driving inputs since the electonric "hand of god" was no longer my co-pilot.

If you really want to improve your autocross times and handling of the car, get a second set of slightly wider 17" rims and bolt on a set of super-sticky 245-45 race tires like the Hoosier Autocrossers to use on the track only. They are DOT approved, but will wear out way too fast on the street. They stick like glue on the track and have the consistency of the bottom of a sneaker - you can actually dig your nails into them, they're that soft. I used to run BF Goodrich autocross tires on my Z28 and the difference in lateral grip and overall race handling was like night and day.

Racing the CTS is such an adrenaline rush isn't it?! When are you hitting the track again?

-FAV002

akirby · October 2002

The 2003 LS is just now becoming available to the press for testing (late release). But the biggest problem is that the LS is too big to compete against the 3 series and A4. The CTS is bigger than all of them and the LS is bigger than the CTS. The LS should be competing against the E class, 5/7 series and A6. Now that the manual is no longer available maybe they'll stop comparing it to the wrong vehicles. Initial sales of the manual were good but dropped like a rock - only something like 1500 were actually sold over 3 years. It remains to be seen whether the CTS manual sales will be sustained once the initial rush is over.

As for sales vs. production figures, the only one that counts is sales. Sales will ultimately dictate production volume. If you can't sell 'em you can't keep building 'em. Yes, there are great incentives on the 2002 LS right now, but if you look at the first 2 years of LS production it sold over 50K each year. 2002 was a bad year all around for Ford/Lincoln. The 2003 should get the sales back near that figure. Remember that, unlike the CTS, the LS also appeals to Town Car buyers who may want a smaller vehicle. I'm sure a few DeVille buyers may cross over to the CTS but I bet it's a lot less than the TC-LS conversion due to the styling differences.

richw5 · October 2002

Cadillac and Lincoln are the two last Great American Luxury Automobiles. During the past two decades,GM and Ford made a lot of mistakes,which allowed the foreign companies to come in and take over the luxury market in this country.

It's time for that to stop, so I won't engage in any CTS, LS argument (OK, I will, with my Ford truck driving step-son). Both cars serve different markets. The CTS was designed more as a "sport sedan" than the LS. It's a shame, since the LS could be a great "sport sedan" with a little work from Ford. I believe that Ford originally intended the LS to be competition for the Seville. They turned out a car with beautiful lines that isn't sure whether it's a luxury sedan or sport sedan.

Akirby is right. Ford needs to reposition the LS, and Cadillac needs to come through with a CTS-V that meets and beats the competition. I'd be proud to have a CTS-V and a Lincoln LS-SVT side by side in my driveway some day. I guess that won't happen, so I'll have settle for a CTS-V and my old STS.

Necros and Fav002. Have fun! I remember racing corvettes on the dirt tracks down in Texas when I was in my 20's. The biggest mistake I made in buying my '98 Vette, was being afraid to drive it as it was designed to be driven, fast with gusto. The Vette sat in the garage if it was too hot or too cold; especially if I had to park where it could be stolen. My wife said,"drive it or get rid of it". I did and replaced it with the CTS which is now driven "fast with gusto".

Since my reaction time at 60 isn't as quick as it was at 25, I should say that I drive "fast with gusto and caution". Still, there's nothing as enjoyable as taking the CTS out on a winding country road and driving it as it was designed to be driven.

I look forward to seeing regular racing reports from you two (Fav002 and Nceros) and any others, as the CTS owners group grows.

Rich

necros · October 2002

Actually, I'm racing on Sunday (Sunday! Sunday! Sunday!) at a BMW Car Club autocross that ajvdh on this board invited me to. From what I hear, they do a lot more runs than the SCCA people, simply because they have fewer racers. I'm really looking forward to it.

As far as tires go, from what I can see SCCA regs for the stock class only allow OEM-size wheels and tires, so I don't think going wider in a wheel is an option for me. I would have loved to pick up some Kumho/Hoosier/Falken race tires, but they don't make them in stock size for the CTS. I picked up a set of these: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Yokohama&tireModel=AVS+ES100

But for this weekend, I'm still racing on the stock Goodyears. I have to put snow tires on, anyway, and next year the car will get summer tires for normal use, so the RS-As are really disposable tires for me.

bigdaddycoats · October 2002

I think manual sales will continue to be about 10% for the CTS. Especially with the new V6 and the V series coming out next year. I certainly hope the CTS does not follow Lincoln and will continue to offer a manual.

cartesio · October 2002

I think your point of view about CTS and Lincoln LS is on the mark. However, Ford offers a couple of "real" sports cars under the Jaguar label. The XK8 and the S-type "R" are both estimable cars. Of course, price is a consideration.

sevenfeet0 · October 2002

Actually, I made pains to make sure I was referring to production numbers and not sales figures in my earlier email. It struck me as odd that Lincoln was outselling Cadillac in this segment, yet Cadillac was outproducing Lincoln at the factory by a wide margin. That means that either Lincoln dealers are doing well at clearing existing dealer stock, or Cadillac is stuffing the channel, or both. I don't see a lot of CTS's sitting on dealer lots these days and my dealer says that most of theirs don't last longer than 2 weeks. But my observations are just in one city.

Also, the Lincoln LS is a fine vehicle and yes, I haven't sat in an '03. But I haven't heard anything in the news about the '03 from a layout or chassis redesign that would say to me that the interior room layout is any different. This is a problem that all the cars based on this platform share (LS, S-Type, Thunderbird). You must remember that with a pants inseam of 40 inches, I'm on the outer fringe of buyers anyway. I got lucky with the CTS as far as legroom goes. But the LS in all previous forms was physically impossible for me to drive because of the interior layout.

1997montez34 · October 2002

I got my latest copy of AutoWeek yesterday and they had an AutoFile on the CTS. The owners who actually spent their money on the CTS were thrilled with the car! The magazine was a bit lackluster in theor praise for the CTS.

oldsman01 · October 2002

Anybody know what type of lease offers Cadillac is offering on the CTS?

sweetjeldorado · October 2002

I don't think the 2003 LSs will reach near 50,000 next year since most cars that get a face lift in the 3rd. or 4th. production run normally don't sell as well or better like the first year production models of the production cycle. I think it will be slightly better than this year but not by a major slide. However, if the car was unchange from last year, sales could drop drastically on the car.

However, keep in mind that the LS has more engine options over the CTS and that the LS is currently being offered with discounts and incentives for the reason it outsells the CTS. The CTS is being offered with discounts but not as enormous like the LS and most people are waiting for the revised model for later part of next year.

Personally, the LS is a fine car. However, I find its luxury offering more tempting than the CTS however, the CTS is a raw luxury sports sedan and the LS is a sports luxury car. I think the styling of the LS is plain Jane and dull while the CTS is exciting and gorgeous but both are excellent (more so the '03 LS, not prior models) cars catered to different mindsets.

J "CaddyLac"

regfootball · October 2002

seen ads for a 399 a month lease on tv for the new cts.

mcgreenx · October 2002

You really have to read the fine print in those ads because they invariably have conditions and limitations, such as "money due at signing." Each $1000 down reduces the monthly payment by about $30. The monthly lease rate, as an abstract figure, is usually meaningless. Look carefully at how many miles per year are included. The only way to evaluate a lease is to know the capitalized cost, the money rate and the residual value. Lease Wizard is a good program with which to evaluate leases, I think. There may be other good ones, of course, and probably are.

eaton53 · October 2002

One of the dark red ones... looked very good.

The dealership where I saw the car has 3 used BMW's now. I'd never seen a Bimmer in their lot before, so I asked the sales guy about them and he said they were all CTS trades.

CTS moves off the lot quickly there. I go by there daily and none seem to stay there more than a week, maybe two at the most

macguy · October 2002

Hi,
I the CTS landed here at Saudi Arabia for the first time last week (2003 model). The main difference here is that a 2.6L 168hp version of the engine is availabe to bring the cost down to that similar to the US entery level cost of $29 grand, but it is all automatic transmission hete, you can not get a stick shift. The 3.2L engine is also available in all its glory. I am planning on getting a top of the line 3.2L fully loaded up to the sun roof CTS and sport luxry package with the 17 in wheels (the on star GPS navigation is not available here). This set up here costs $38,400, (consider that this cost also covers shipping and 5% customs. We do not pay sales tax here).

I could not go through all the above 1117 messages, so can someone highlight the main problems that are common to the CTS, any last minute warning. I really like the car and am going for a test drive tomorrow and if all went ok I may very well put the down payment. Any thing I should know (weak spots, pron to break trim areas, vragil items, etc.)

And one other question, since the only option available is the automatic, will the automatic CTS accelerate all the same at 6.9 sec. Did any one of you guys actually clocked teh acceleration of the CTS.

trichard2 · October 2002

Go to post #915 on this board. It's answers some of your questions.

okidokie · October 2002

Based on what I have heard, the engine of the CTS is based on Opel's modified 3.0L engine. It is DOHC with 2 stage variable intake manifold. It doesn't have a VVT though. But I think it outshines the Mercedes's V6 in terms of performance/torque.
It is a very appealing engine to me, as it is high revving and smooth. I think it is as smooth as the BMW's 6s.
But one, the only one, disappointment I have with this engine is it doesn't have a timing chain; it uses a timing belt instead, which is not life-long durable.

wwhite2 · October 2002

in today's Boston Herald a Portsmouth NH Cadillac dealer listed a NEW CTS MSRP 36265 Sale price 32999.

okidokie · October 2002

In terms of styling, the car is certainly none I have seen before. I have driven a Bimmer 525i and I think CTS's is quite unique. I don't really love the way the center console look, but I love the kind of thing that it has, especially the Driver's Info center. It gives me info on various engine parts. I like this a lot. However, one thing I don't like about the styling of car is the way the door handles look. They look too dull.

Some people say this car looks ugly (or from certain angles).
I partially agree; but I think the car looks much better and appealing to me in dark colors. I love the way the car looks in black or dark blue.
I think this car really gives people many different feelings with different colors. I prefer black, and I think the car looks perfect in blac.

sevenfeet0 · October 2002

Of all the regulars on this board, I think all of us are in North America. A CTS in Saudi Arabia would be unique indeed.

The pricing of the CTS with the 3.2L V6 sounds very similar to stateside. It sounds like a good deal.

I own a similar CTS to the one you are looking at (LuxSport, automatic, sunroof, black with dark pewter leather). I've only had the car for about 3 weeks but my wife and I had done a mix of driving plus one long trip. So far, we love this car. In fact, I just got finished doing a quick detailing of it.

Most of the early problems of this car that people have been reporting have long since been ironed out. These include:

1. A kinky fuel hose that limits your ability to quickly fuel up the car.

2. A puddle that accumulates under the drivers seat from one of the AC vents.

3. One owner had a bad piston that required the replacement of the entire engine. This is a rare problem for any car.

Other than that, I haven't heard of any other major or minor issues with this vehicle. Most people comment on how the car compares to the competition, or what about the car they'd change (lack of gauges, bigger glovebox, more power).

None of these issues stopped people on this board from buying the car. My car is tight as a tick and handles wonderfully. The only loose bit on my car is the Bose logo on the left hand tweeter.

It's too bad you can't get OnStar but I doubt that the OnStar operators know the way to Mecca ;-)

Bottom line: if the car appeals to you, buy it. You won't be sorry. Virtually all of us here are having a lot of fun with our cars.

eaton53 · October 2002

I was on Auto Trader today and CTS are just starting to get there in numbers. There were several lightly used CTS in the high $20K's, including one for $26xxx.

It'll be a couple of years before I know what I'm going to have to give for one, but right now I'm thinking (hoping?) low $20's for a 2 year old (base car, not Lux/Sport).

mcgreenx · October 2002

I was touted onto an HBO comedy show, Curb Your Enthusiasm, that I hadn't seen before, so I Tivoed it and watch the episode tonight (about a rumored terrorist attack that never comes off). A character by the name of Stu Braude is late for a dinner reservation because he spent time looking for a parking spot. He says "It's a new Cadillac CTS, drives like a dream, I wouldn't give it to a freakin' valet." Later there are shots of him driving his Sterling CTS (same as mine, beautiful automobile) around LA, the car parked in front of his house, and then being hit by what looked like a Bimmer convertible (but you couldn't see any damage to either car). How much do you think that cost Cadillac?

BTW and FYI, "Bimmer" is in the spell check dictionary!!!

mannytranny · October 2002

I was hopeing to get the ET down lower but my chance in October was rained out. I think this year there is only one more chance in November.

I don't know if I can qualify for the hill climb in the spring. It's the one that the original Fleetwood Cadillacs were tested on way, way back when.

I'll only hope that I can get one more chance this year to race this car.

I was at a Corvette restoration company on Saturday and a lot of people came over to check out the CTS. I said that it was a manual trans and most were so surprised that they wanted to see the 3 pedals. I really feel that Cadillac should do commercials or more advertising about this fact. The interest in the whole car seems to grow even more when this is pointed out. Even the business owner asked why Cadillac wasn't agressively advertising this to at least get people aware of the manual trans.

I know what happened to the LS and don't want this to happen to the CTS.

eaton53 · October 2002

Not nearly as much as it cost 'em to get it a high profile part in Matrix II.

sevenfeet0 · October 2002

Has anyone had any luck burning CD-RWs for the Bose Radio in the CTS? I had one brand that worked in the Mercury Grand Marquis's I rent for work, but not in my new CTS. Granted, the CD-RWs were the cheap CompUSA brand. I was wondering if anyone else had better luck getting them to read.

And I guess it's really wishfull thinking if the CD player understood MP3 CDs....

bingoman · October 2002

Although there is nothing in the owners manual about the use of CD-RW's, I seem to recall reading something in a computer magazine that some CD's can not read them. You might try burning a non-rewriteable CD. They seem to function slightly differently in the reader.

oldsman01 · October 2002

The cd player in my Intrigue will play CDRs just fine, but will not play CD RWs. The manual doesn't say anything about it, but I've tried it and CD-RWs will not play. I'm not sure on the CTS though since it has a totally different stereo head unit than my car. Maybe when they go to a DVD navigation system it will play CDRs, CD-RWs, and MP3 CDs just like most DVD players now do.

b4z · October 2002

Seems to be building at my dealer.
They now have 5 cars.
There is a sunburst orange car there that will be a hard sell.
Also a diamond white. pearlescent paints are incredibly hard to do properly. I have yet to see a CTS with it done right. Very mottled looking with the metallics clumped together.
If I paid $750 extra for diamond white i would expect a better job than that.

a98gibson · October 2002

I seriously considered the LS when doing my research, but couldn't find a Lincoln dealer in the Tri-State area (OH-KY-IN)with an LS w/manual transmission in stock; no used vehicles either. More than one dealer told me that the only way to test drive the LS with a manual transmission was to buy one.

Cadillac did it right. They introduced the CTS and provided demo units equipped with manual and automatic transmissions. I was able to drive the Luxury and Luxury/Sport models with manual gear boxes. Cadillac wants me as a customer, Lincoln wants my Grandfather.

Good luck with lowering your E.T.

oldsman01 · October 2002

At one time early last summer, my local dealer had two copper sunburst CTSs. One of them was gone pretty quickly and the other lingered for several weeks then was gone. BTW, that was the first CTS I ever test drove. I have yet to see another in that color at the dealer. I've also only seen one Midnight Blue. For me, the darker colors are better, but I will say the Copper Sunburst has unique appeal. And it sure was interesting test driving the car. Car wise, this area is more conservative than Strom Thurmond. Needless to say, the car got lots of looks. Or else it was the attractive young sales woman who was in the car with me:)

mcgreenx · October 2002

The October 18-20 issue of USA Weekend, a supplement that comes with the Chicago Sun-Times, has an article about what the type of car you drive, and its color, tells people. Here's what it says about color:

Red: You're assertive (or aggressive) and strong.

Silver: You ooze class. (So true; I have a Sterling CTS, of course.) Silver represents speed, power and success---which why it's the favorite color of baby boomers (ages 38 to 50)---passing white and becoming the No. 1 car color for the first time in 2001.

White: Longtime favorite and the color of rental cars. People under 65 drive white to blend in. For the elderly, white harks back to the elegance and wealth of the 1920s.

Yellow: It screams "Look at me!"--which is why you don't see it on family sedans. It's for sporty SUVs and expensive sports cars, in which it also says, "I'm so rich I don't care what you think" (example, a $50,370 Corvette sports coupe.)

Black: Power/aggression sums it up. The top choice for ages 24 to 37 and one of the top colors targeted by thieves (along with red).

Blue (medium or dark): You're conservative, middle of the road. Blue always seems to be No. 5 or 6 on list of the top 10 car colors.

Green (medium or dark): See blue, above, and add a touch of environmentalism.

AND LAST (and perhaps least):

Orange: You're on top of the trends. Orange (in many variations) is a key new color in 2003. GM has "sunset orange metallic" pickups (NOTE: no mention of the CTS); Mercedes-Benz offers a "paprika metallic" C-Class sports coupe.

So, waddaya think? Some sounds right to me, especially the part about silver drivers oozing class, but green for environmentalism seems to be a push.

sevenfeet0 · October 2002

Mine's black. I'm 37, my wife is 34, and we like going fast. I think we match our color nicely. Of course, keeping the darned thing clean is not easy...

And speaking of copper sunburst, my dealer said that its the hardest color to sell, but for the hyper-extroverts who buy it, it's the perfect color. Come to think of it, orange colored products generally don't sell well period. I remember a few years back when Apple was selling iMacs in five different colors. The orange iMac was always the slowest selling. I think the most sales of the orange iMac was in Colorado (Go Broncos) and east Tennessee (Go Vols).

automole · October 2002

sevenfeet0,

I've had good luck using the "SmartBuy" brand of CD-RW's. They come in a 5 pack w/ the thin jewel cases in a pink/red colored packaging. I think I bought them at CompUSA. They were dirt cheap $$.

I'm sure you probably know this already...but you have to burn the discs as an "audio disc" and close the session in order for the CTS's stereo to read them.

-hope that helps

As for color, I originally wanted the copper sunburst but ended up with black (couldn't find copper on a dealer's lot w/ the auto tranny). I'm glad I got the black because IMO it's the best looking color for the CTS...as you said though, it's also the hardest to care for. I'm getting used to it though since this is the 3rd black car in a row that I've owned...

On an added note, when I visited the dealer to get my license plates the salesperson told me that copper sunburst had been discontinued. I don't know if it's true or not, but that's the rumour as I heard it.

sevenfeet0 · October 2002

The little price increases continue. GM Buypower and Edmunds' web sites have caught up to the current state of affairs with the CTS option list. The LuxSport package has increased $50 and I think the Luxury package costs more too. The 17 inch polished wheels are now a $550 seperate item. My car as configured would have cost another $600 MSRP.

Curiously, the DVD navigation system or the new Bose 6-CD in-dash changer with Bose noise-cancelling technology aren't being offered yet, despite the fact that both have been listed in the product slicks and the web site for over a month.

As of this date, color options haven't changed either (no ebony leather replacing dark pewter, no Platinum paint replacing Sterling, etc).

necros · October 2002

http://www.rmcbmwcca.org/autoxresults102002.htm

I'll post more later, but for the first time, I wasn't last. Check out "O" class.

mannytranny · October 2002

Wow! The article is pretty good. I had a silver car and never raced it although it had the speed. The only cars that I took to the drag strip were a red one and now the black CTS. I'm not so sure about the age group though.Black is so hard to keep clean but I carry my California duster and some wipes just in case (great for removing deposits from above). I think people with a well cared for black car get respect from others because they know what it means to keep it clean.

mannytranny · October 2002

You are so correct about the LS. I tried to test drive a manual trans LS but there were none in the area. I was also told to test drive one before buying it. There was only one found found on a dealer search two states away. I guess that the LS dealers stopped the sales of the manuals just by not having any.
I was asked yesterday why Cadillac would do such a thing as putting a manual trans in this car. They thought that it would hurt the reputation of the whole line. These people were both retired and about 70+. The man said that Lincoln got the word early and dropped the manual for 2003.

b4z · October 2002

I guess the guy in the Boxster wasn't expecting to be slower than a Caddy.
WRX wasn't that much faster.

ajvdh · October 2002

Those are "indexed" (adjusted for the car) rather than the raw times. They did that for the "X", "R", "O" and "S" classes because there was such a wide range of cars. Us Bimmer guys had our raw times posted. I believe both Boxsters turned in better raw times than Dave, but they were penalized for having fast cars. One of them was running on snow tires. I'll shoot the organizers an e-mail, and see if they can't put the raw times out there as well.

I did tech for Dave's run group, and it's interesting to see how much room there is in front of the CTS's engine. I'm curious as to what dropping in a V8 will do for weight distribution. Not so much because of the weight difference, but because of how much farther forward the engine will be. As it is, the front of the V6's block is just about at the front wheel centerline - very nice.

dindak · October 2002

Cadillac should never drop the manual transmission. Even if it's a small percentage of sales it's worth building for no reason other than image and perception of the car to enthusiasts.

a98gibson · October 2002

I agree. The CTS with a manual gearbox is the only reason I considered an American vehicle for purchase. I started my new vehicle search with three simple requirements: Four doors, six cylinders, and a manual transmission. The car that met the requirements and provided the most grins per dollar would be declared the winner.

The European makers had plenty of choices, the Japanese offered some, but US car makers had nothing until the CTS arrived. (We won't even mention the mythical Lincoln LS w/manual transmission). I drove everything out there (under $40K) and the CTS won!

I may be in the minority, but a true sporting sedan needs to have a manual transmission to make me smile.

akirby · October 2002

You are correct - the Lincoln dealers did not want or think the buying public wanted a manual transmission LS, so they refused to stock one. We asked the marketing VP for Lincoln if they could somehow force the dealers to stock one for test drives and he said if he tried that he'd end up in jail. If the dealers won't order it, the public won't buy it. This proves that dealers have far too much power.

If the CTS manual sales drop below 5% you may see Caddy do the same. It's hard to justify the expense of a separate powertrain for such low sales. BMW's whole reputation is built around performance so they have to offer them. For Caddy and Lincoln it's a different story. It's also questionable how viable regular manuals will be long term with SMGs and CVTs on the way that can offer the best of both worlds (crisp, manual shifting with minimal power loss PLUS an automatic mode for rush hour driving).

dindak · October 2002

I doubt that even if sales fall off that Cadillac will can the manual. Mr. Lutz and the boys seem pretty serious about revamping Cadillac and having only automatics would concede the Cadillac failed again in the entry level sedan department.

Unfortunately I would personally have to go with an auto as traffic congestion around Toronto with a manual would kill me.

mannytranny · October 2002

A used CTS with only 178 miles on, auto, fully loaded MSRP of $39,290 just sold for $33.000. There were others listed the other day but they never sold as the reserve price was not met. Someone bought this one with a buy it now instant purchase. The car was from Buffalo, NY area. The ebay # was 1868795501. You can still see it with this number.

dindak · October 2002

Ack! Something is wrong there. Why would they be selling so cheap.

I'm very suspicious.

oldsman01 · October 2002

Other than in car magazines, I have yet to see an LS with a manual. Every time I see on in a parking lot, I peer in the window as I walk by to see if it has a manual. Too bad they never offered that manual with the V8, that would have been a very interesting(and probably even more rare) combo.

a98gibson · October 2002

I thought that I was the only person in the world who looked inside parked LS's to see if they could find one with a manual transmission. There should be some sort of prize to the lucky enthusiast who locates one first.

My last discussion with an LS owner went something like this: I saw him pull into the restaurant parking lot as I was walking out. We passed each other in front of his shiny green 2001 LS. I asked how he liked the car, he loved it. Then, I said "Is it a manual or automatic transmission?" His reply, "Both."

I thanked him and slowly backed away...

akirby · October 2002

Technically he was correct about the transmission. The SST tranny allows the automatic to be manually shifted (no, it's not a substitute for a real manual so don't start). Sounds like he knew more about the car than you did!

Cadillac CTS/CTS-V

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