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Cadillac CTS/CTS-V

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  • ajvdhajvdh Posts: 223
    Those are "indexed" (adjusted for the car) rather than the raw times. They did that for the "X", "R", "O" and "S" classes because there was such a wide range of cars. Us Bimmer guys had our raw times posted. I believe both Boxsters turned in better raw times than Dave, but they were penalized for having fast cars. One of them was running on snow tires. I'll shoot the organizers an e-mail, and see if they can't put the raw times out there as well.

    I did tech for Dave's run group, and it's interesting to see how much room there is in front of the CTS's engine. I'm curious as to what dropping in a V8 will do for weight distribution. Not so much because of the weight difference, but because of how much farther forward the engine will be. As it is, the front of the V6's block is just about at the front wheel centerline - very nice.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    Cadillac should never drop the manual transmission. Even if it's a small percentage of sales it's worth building for no reason other than image and perception of the car to enthusiasts.
  • I agree. The CTS with a manual gearbox is the only reason I considered an American vehicle for purchase. I started my new vehicle search with three simple requirements: Four doors, six cylinders, and a manual transmission. The car that met the requirements and provided the most grins per dollar would be declared the winner.

    The European makers had plenty of choices, the Japanese offered some, but US car makers had nothing until the CTS arrived. (We won't even mention the mythical Lincoln LS w/manual transmission). I drove everything out there (under $40K) and the CTS won!

    I may be in the minority, but a true sporting sedan needs to have a manual transmission to make me smile.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,690
    You are correct - the Lincoln dealers did not want or think the buying public wanted a manual transmission LS, so they refused to stock one. We asked the marketing VP for Lincoln if they could somehow force the dealers to stock one for test drives and he said if he tried that he'd end up in jail. If the dealers won't order it, the public won't buy it. This proves that dealers have far too much power.

    If the CTS manual sales drop below 5% you may see Caddy do the same. It's hard to justify the expense of a separate powertrain for such low sales. BMW's whole reputation is built around performance so they have to offer them. For Caddy and Lincoln it's a different story. It's also questionable how viable regular manuals will be long term with SMGs and CVTs on the way that can offer the best of both worlds (crisp, manual shifting with minimal power loss PLUS an automatic mode for rush hour driving).
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    I doubt that even if sales fall off that Cadillac will can the manual. Mr. Lutz and the boys seem pretty serious about revamping Cadillac and having only automatics would concede the Cadillac failed again in the entry level sedan department.

    Unfortunately I would personally have to go with an auto as traffic congestion around Toronto with a manual would kill me.
  • A used CTS with only 178 miles on, auto, fully loaded MSRP of $39,290 just sold for $33.000. There were others listed the other day but they never sold as the reserve price was not met. Someone bought this one with a buy it now instant purchase. The car was from Buffalo, NY area. The ebay # was 1868795501. You can still see it with this number.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    Ack! Something is wrong there. Why would they be selling so cheap.

    I'm very suspicious.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Posts: 1,203
    Other than in car magazines, I have yet to see an LS with a manual. Every time I see on in a parking lot, I peer in the window as I walk by to see if it has a manual. Too bad they never offered that manual with the V8, that would have been a very interesting(and probably even more rare) combo.
  • I thought that I was the only person in the world who looked inside parked LS's to see if they could find one with a manual transmission. There should be some sort of prize to the lucky enthusiast who locates one first.

    My last discussion with an LS owner went something like this: I saw him pull into the restaurant parking lot as I was walking out. We passed each other in front of his shiny green 2001 LS. I asked how he liked the car, he loved it. Then, I said "Is it a manual or automatic transmission?" His reply, "Both."

    I thanked him and slowly backed away...
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,690
    Technically he was correct about the transmission. The SST tranny allows the automatic to be manually shifted (no, it's not a substitute for a real manual so don't start). Sounds like he knew more about the car than you did!
  • Maybe Lincoln knows something Cadillac does not by incorporating state of the art transmissions. The F1 circuit in Europe has abandoned the old fashioned manual and switched to sequential clutch less gear shifting. By comparison CART is still on regular manuals. I've always loved manuals, but It just may be that three pedals on the floor will be a thing of the past and dead on arrival. Just my opinionnnnn.
  • babyloubabylou Posts: 31
    g1994sts,

    You are totally incorrect!

    Racing cars and street cars do not have to meet the same needs, tranny and all. An auto tranny for the street uses a torque converter. No top level race vehicle has a torque converter. Top level race cars (F1 & Champ cars included) use clutches but no clutch pedal.

    Also a CART Champ car uses a sequential manual gearbox that has no clutch pedal but has an electro-hydraulically actuated clutch and a stick that you move forwards for a downshift and rearwards for an upshift. Makes it impossible to miss a shift. An F1 car has the same thing except the shifter is also operated electro-hydraulically and both are microprocessor controlled.
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    I am pretty sure that Champ cars still have clutch pedals.
    The clutch pedal does not need to be used for downshifts and upshifts like you said.

    Of course it is also possible to shift gears in a normal car without using the clutch.
    Something I like to do when I am bored.
    Not something I like to hear when I do it wrong. LOL.
  • mcgreenxmcgreenx Posts: 179
    Article about GM falling short of its 29% market share target, and why incentives were offered on the CTS:


    http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/22/business/22CARS.html?todaysheadlines


    "...Mr. Smith, architect of a plan to remake Cadillac when he ran the division during the late 1990's, defended G.M.'s decision to offer the loans across its entire car and truck lineup, excluding Hummer, even as it was trying to improve its vehicles' images.


    The deals are available even on the trendy Cadillac CTS sedan, which G.M. sees as a landmark in its quest to capture buyers of upscale imports. "We wanted to be able to say, `Every Buick, every Oldsmobile, every Cadillac,' " because such simplicity gets buyers' attention, Mr. Smith said...."

  • The article was very good and it mirrored a similar article on thecarconnection.com this morning. GM is trying to poach market share in any way it can, even with the CTS. But incentive sales have a tendency of reducing the je-ne-sais-quoi of a luxury vehicle.

    In my case, the incentives did make sense because it made the car cheaper than the Volvo S80 that my wife and I were also looking at. If Cadillac changes the interest rates to better mirror the luxury competition, they may have to look at their pricing since the Infiniti G35 and Acura TL-typeS are far cheaper for a comperatively priced automobile.

    One thing I have noticed about the current incentives regime: it is getting noticed by the competition. Has anyone noticed that Toyota has started to offer similar incentives for their cars through October?
  • This is a fascinating article on autoweek.com about the upcoming Cadillac V12, and why it almost didn't happen. It's amazing that some bean counters nearly killed this engine over the paltry $3 million it cost to develop it.


    http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=09984489

  • This is the worst car I have ever owned. The transmission went twice and I was told that pre 1996 the trans case was too thin and 4th gear servo's were likely to go with 50 plus thousand miles on it. When I called the factory they suggested I replace it with a newer unit ay a cost of 3000.00. This is about half of what the car is worth. The car has 59000 miles on it and I am into two transmissions. Oh, buy the way they,Cadillac, said they were not going to stand behind it even though they said it was a bad design flaw. "THE NERVE"of them. Well I just owned the last Cadillac I will ever own. G.M.Sucks.
  • Anyone out there entering their CTS in competition (necros, et al) can you please post your tire and wheel combos (with air pressure), any other car mods, track conditions, weather, etc., and your impression of the net effect on your times. Hoping that by sharing we all can learn.

    Also, if anyone has, or is planning to, change wheels and tires, please share your fitment experience.

    I read that the Boundurant CTS's will have suspension mods. I'll try to find out what exactly those mods are and will post if successful.

    Thanks in advance!

    Oh and ccxarch...thanks for sharing, buh-bye now, this is a CTS board.
  • mcgreenxmcgreenx Posts: 179
    Just bought a third ignition key for my CTS. Can't get used to paying $55 for a KEY. At least there was no cost to program the key, as I've encountered with other makes in the past. All that was necessary was starting up with the old key and letting the computer sequence complete, then starting with the new key and letting the system program it.

    BTW, why post the "Cadillac 1994 seville" note here? This is for CTS stuff. Or are you simply trying to dirty up GM? It's an eight year old car. If you don't like it, get rid of it.
  • I noticed that you live in the Atlanta metro. Is your CTS one of the 3 or 4 that I see everyday during my commute northbound on GA400, as they are commuting southbound? Each day I see at least 2 and sometimes 5... I notice their daytime running lights from a distance and then confirm that they are CTS's once I get closer. They are so distinct that I notice them from across the expressway.
  • richw5richw5 Posts: 152
    I usually see at least one CTS on the road every day. The local dealer just got a new shipment and is up to 14 on his car lot. They have one each of copper, blue and red, four each white and black and three sterling. Only two of the fourteen had a manual trannys, with a fairly even split between "Luxury" and "Sport Luxury" models and two basic cars.

    The sales people are really happy as the CTS doesn't stay on the lot very long. I was surprised at their level of knowledge. If they didn't know an answer, they were willing to call another salesman over to answer my questions. I was just in for an oil change on the other car, but they were eager to talk CTS. What a change.

    Mcgreenx - My wife co-signed for a used Explorer for her son, when our grandson was born. An extra key at the local Ford dealer (stepson is good at loosing keys) is $75. Also, do you have an uncle (cousin) Aaron that had a sailboat on Lake Michigan? I used to crew on sailboats with an Aaron Greenfield.

    Rich
  • mcgreenxmcgreenx Posts: 179
    No, Rich, no uncle or cousin (or any other family member, to my knowledge) named Aaron.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Posts: 1,203
    Your point? This is a CTS forum. Gripe about the problems with your 8 year old Seville in the Seville forum.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Posts: 1,203
    FINALLY got the recent issue of Autoweek which has the autofile report on the CTS. Very interesting how owners seemed very satisfied with the car. I'd be curious to see how many respondants they got. It almost seemed that the editors were baffled that owners liked the car more than they did. Glad to see that Cadillac is finally building a car to impress us(those who actually buy the car) and not simply trying to win magazine reviews and "editor's best" lists.
  • I stopped by my Caddy dealer yesterday. They had a black CTS base model with the stick. This car is the one I think I would want. Does the sport package really make a big difference in handling? I hate the idea of having to pay for a luxury package if I want the "sport" package.
  • beach15beach15 Posts: 1,305
    Basically, the firm ride and amazing handling are just a little stiffer still, and Stabilitrack is included. I'd say to drive this black base with stick you found, and if you like, buy it! There's no way that the "base" suspension is anything less than outstanding already, no Buick floating here!
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    CTS article is on the autoweek.com web site now also.
  • mcgreenxmcgreenx Posts: 179
    It's a very subjective thing. I assume the Lux handling is the same as the Base; the LuxSport is noticeably stiffer. I drove both the Lux and LuxSport several times before buying the Sport, primarily because I wanted StabTrak and several other Sport goodies. But the Lux and Base have a more comfortable ride over less than satin pavement. If very precise handling is your thing, you might be happier with the Sport, but the Base/Lux is not at all bad. Question for you is one of cost vs. features. I think both are excellent values.
  • Although I do live in Atlanta and my office is in Alpharetta off GA 400, I'm not usually in the morning commute. I go up there about once every two weeks or so. I spend most of my time travelling to customers in other cities.

    But it you do see a black CTS on GA400 and the driver has a big grin on his face, keep me in mind. :-)
  • I've driven both and the LuxSport is a firmer and communicates the road better. But the Lux (or base) is no floating land cruiser. It is probably fine for most drivers. I wanted Stabilitrak and the load levelling feature you only get with the LuxSport.

    BTW, its funny how many of the magazine reviewers knock electronic stability control systems like Stabilitrak, but it seems that for the most part, the only place you wouldn't want to use it is weekend racing, or magazine slalom tests. Most of the rest of us in the real world like to know that these systems are there to potentially "save our bacon" if we get into trouble.
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