Cadillac CTS/CTS-V

g1994sts · October 2002

Maybe Lincoln knows something Cadillac does not by incorporating state of the art transmissions. The F1 circuit in Europe has abandoned the old fashioned manual and switched to sequential clutch less gear shifting. By comparison CART is still on regular manuals. I've always loved manuals, but It just may be that three pedals on the floor will be a thing of the past and dead on arrival. Just my opinionnnnn.

babylou · October 2002

g1994sts,

You are totally incorrect!

Racing cars and street cars do not have to meet the same needs, tranny and all. An auto tranny for the street uses a torque converter. No top level race vehicle has a torque converter. Top level race cars (F1 & Champ cars included) use clutches but no clutch pedal.

Also a CART Champ car uses a sequential manual gearbox that has no clutch pedal but has an electro-hydraulically actuated clutch and a stick that you move forwards for a downshift and rearwards for an upshift. Makes it impossible to miss a shift. An F1 car has the same thing except the shifter is also operated electro-hydraulically and both are microprocessor controlled.

b4z · October 2002

I am pretty sure that Champ cars still have clutch pedals.
The clutch pedal does not need to be used for downshifts and upshifts like you said.

Of course it is also possible to shift gears in a normal car without using the clutch.
Something I like to do when I am bored.
Not something I like to hear when I do it wrong. LOL.

mcgreenx · October 2002

Article about GM falling short of its 29% market share target, and why incentives were offered on the CTS:

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/22/business/22CARS.html?todaysheadlines

"...Mr. Smith, architect of a plan to remake Cadillac when he ran the division during the late 1990's, defended G.M.'s decision to offer the loans across its entire car and truck lineup, excluding Hummer, even as it was trying to improve its vehicles' images.

The deals are available even on the trendy Cadillac CTS sedan, which G.M. sees as a landmark in its quest to capture buyers of upscale imports. "We wanted to be able to say, `Every Buick, every Oldsmobile, every Cadillac,' " because such simplicity gets buyers' attention, Mr. Smith said...."

sevenfeet0 · October 2002

The article was very good and it mirrored a similar article on thecarconnection.com this morning. GM is trying to poach market share in any way it can, even with the CTS. But incentive sales have a tendency of reducing the je-ne-sais-quoi of a luxury vehicle.

In my case, the incentives did make sense because it made the car cheaper than the Volvo S80 that my wife and I were also looking at. If Cadillac changes the interest rates to better mirror the luxury competition, they may have to look at their pricing since the Infiniti G35 and Acura TL-typeS are far cheaper for a comperatively priced automobile.

One thing I have noticed about the current incentives regime: it is getting noticed by the competition. Has anyone noticed that Toyota has started to offer similar incentives for their cars through October?

sevenfeet0 · October 2002

This is a fascinating article on autoweek.com about the upcoming Cadillac V12, and why it almost didn't happen. It's amazing that some bean counters nearly killed this engine over the paltry $3 million it cost to develop it.

http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=09984489

ccxarch · October 2002

This is the worst car I have ever owned. The transmission went twice and I was told that pre 1996 the trans case was too thin and 4th gear servo's were likely to go with 50 plus thousand miles on it. When I called the factory they suggested I replace it with a newer unit ay a cost of 3000.00. This is about half of what the car is worth. The car has 59000 miles on it and I am into two transmissions. Oh, buy the way they,Cadillac, said they were not going to stand behind it even though they said it was a bad design flaw. "THE NERVE"of them. Well I just owned the last Cadillac I will ever own. G.M.Sucks.

calicadi · October 2002

Anyone out there entering their CTS in competition (necros, et al) can you please post your tire and wheel combos (with air pressure), any other car mods, track conditions, weather, etc., and your impression of the net effect on your times. Hoping that by sharing we all can learn.

Also, if anyone has, or is planning to, change wheels and tires, please share your fitment experience.

I read that the Boundurant CTS's will have suspension mods. I'll try to find out what exactly those mods are and will post if successful.

Thanks in advance!

Oh and ccxarch...thanks for sharing, buh-bye now, this is a CTS board.

mcgreenx · October 2002

Just bought a third ignition key for my CTS. Can't get used to paying $55 for a KEY. At least there was no cost to program the key, as I've encountered with other makes in the past. All that was necessary was starting up with the old key and letting the computer sequence complete, then starting with the new key and letting the system program it.

BTW, why post the "Cadillac 1994 seville" note here? This is for CTS stuff. Or are you simply trying to dirty up GM? It's an eight year old car. If you don't like it, get rid of it.

d2000one1 · October 2002

I noticed that you live in the Atlanta metro. Is your CTS one of the 3 or 4 that I see everyday during my commute northbound on GA400, as they are commuting southbound? Each day I see at least 2 and sometimes 5... I notice their daytime running lights from a distance and then confirm that they are CTS's once I get closer. They are so distinct that I notice them from across the expressway.

richw5 · October 2002

I usually see at least one CTS on the road every day. The local dealer just got a new shipment and is up to 14 on his car lot. They have one each of copper, blue and red, four each white and black and three sterling. Only two of the fourteen had a manual trannys, with a fairly even split between "Luxury" and "Sport Luxury" models and two basic cars.

The sales people are really happy as the CTS doesn't stay on the lot very long. I was surprised at their level of knowledge. If they didn't know an answer, they were willing to call another salesman over to answer my questions. I was just in for an oil change on the other car, but they were eager to talk CTS. What a change.

Mcgreenx - My wife co-signed for a used Explorer for her son, when our grandson was born. An extra key at the local Ford dealer (stepson is good at loosing keys) is $75. Also, do you have an uncle (cousin) Aaron that had a sailboat on Lake Michigan? I used to crew on sailboats with an Aaron Greenfield.

Rich

mcgreenx · October 2002

No, Rich, no uncle or cousin (or any other family member, to my knowledge) named Aaron.

oldsman01 · October 2002

Your point? This is a CTS forum. Gripe about the problems with your 8 year old Seville in the Seville forum.

oldsman01 · October 2002

FINALLY got the recent issue of Autoweek which has the autofile report on the CTS. Very interesting how owners seemed very satisfied with the car. I'd be curious to see how many respondants they got. It almost seemed that the editors were baffled that owners liked the car more than they did. Glad to see that Cadillac is finally building a car to impress us(those who actually buy the car) and not simply trying to win magazine reviews and "editor's best" lists.

1997montez34 · October 2002

I stopped by my Caddy dealer yesterday. They had a black CTS base model with the stick. This car is the one I think I would want. Does the sport package really make a big difference in handling? I hate the idea of having to pay for a luxury package if I want the "sport" package.

beach15 · October 2002

Basically, the firm ride and amazing handling are just a little stiffer still, and Stabilitrack is included. I'd say to drive this black base with stick you found, and if you like, buy it! There's no way that the "base" suspension is anything less than outstanding already, no Buick floating here!

dindak · October 2002

CTS article is on the autoweek.com web site now also.

mcgreenx · October 2002

It's a very subjective thing. I assume the Lux handling is the same as the Base; the LuxSport is noticeably stiffer. I drove both the Lux and LuxSport several times before buying the Sport, primarily because I wanted StabTrak and several other Sport goodies. But the Lux and Base have a more comfortable ride over less than satin pavement. If very precise handling is your thing, you might be happier with the Sport, but the Base/Lux is not at all bad. Question for you is one of cost vs. features. I think both are excellent values.

sevenfeet0 · October 2002

Although I do live in Atlanta and my office is in Alpharetta off GA 400, I'm not usually in the morning commute. I go up there about once every two weeks or so. I spend most of my time travelling to customers in other cities.

But it you do see a black CTS on GA400 and the driver has a big grin on his face, keep me in mind. :-)

sevenfeet0 · October 2002

I've driven both and the LuxSport is a firmer and communicates the road better. But the Lux (or base) is no floating land cruiser. It is probably fine for most drivers. I wanted Stabilitrak and the load levelling feature you only get with the LuxSport.

BTW, its funny how many of the magazine reviewers knock electronic stability control systems like Stabilitrak, but it seems that for the most part, the only place you wouldn't want to use it is weekend racing, or magazine slalom tests. Most of the rest of us in the real world like to know that these systems are there to potentially "save our bacon" if we get into trouble.

akirby · October 2002

Hey - MY office is in Alpharetta off GA. 400 (N. Point Parkway)! Small world!

pmdriver2 · October 2002

Hi guys, just some background on the chassis differences between the FE1 (Lux) and FE3 (LuxSport) chassis. The FE3 has the obvious larger tires/wheels, but also receives more sport oriented brake linings, a larger rear stab bar (18mm vs 16mm), shorter rear jounce bumpers and more rear negative camber. It also receives speed sensitive steering (Speedpro from TRW)and more aggressive damper tuning. In the end, during everyday driving, both cars were developed to have the same level of poise. The FE3 package was developed for the farther ends of the "fun" zone! I've seen a couple of questions about tire pressures for autocrossing. We developed the 225/50R17's at 30 psi for optimum grip. With lower aspect ratio tires developed at a certain pressure, you can actually hurt grip by increasing pressure because the contact patch gets smaller. I'd recommend 30 psi for your competitions. We're proud of you guys heading out to the strips and autocrosses!

necros · October 2002

pmdriver: 30 psi? Really? Huh. I've been testing out pressures between 40 and 42 psi. I never even thought to go lower. I may do just that next time.

calicadi: As I said above, I've been moving around between 40 and 42 psi. I like 40 better, so maybe I'll go lower per pmdriver's suggestion. As far as mods go, my car is a bone stock base model. Except for the shift knob. I have a new shift knob.

I'm not really a good enough driver yet to give you impressions of how tweaking the car improves my times. I'm still working on tweaking my driving!

I still owe you guys some pics from the last autocross event. I've been a little busy hunting don a prospect for the rally car I'll be building. If anyone has a 1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD or 1988 Toyota Celica AllTrac they want to get rid of for $2000 or so, let me know.

Also, read that AutoWeek article, and was shocked. I think I, poor driver that I am, can get through the slalom at faster than 42 mph and 0-60 in under 7.5. What was it, intern test day at the mag?

ajvdh · October 2002

I suspect that if you tried to auto-x at 30 psi, you'd buff all the lettering off of your sidewalls. Is 42 your "cold" pressure? If so, that's probably too high. Sunday, I started off running my Hoosierdaddies at 38/F 37/R, and I wound up taking 1.5 psi out.

I never auto-x'd on street tires, but the first couple of years I did open track events, I did them all on street rubber. I'd run 37-38F (since 2nd creek is typically murder on your left front tire I'd run it 1 lb. higher) 36 R. These were cold pressures for 235/40x17 tires.

Here's a suggestion: Start out with stock + 1 or 2 psi all around. If you're getting a lot of rollover onto the sidewalls in front, bump 'em up a lb. If not, leave 'em alone. At that point, if you want to get rid of some understeer, drop the rear pressure a little at a time, and keep an eye on rear rollover. Remember what Bob said in the rookie walk: "Sometimes you have to sacrifice a little grip for better balance." Believe him, he's probably one of the best solo drivers in the country.

If you're serious about hunting down a cheap Talon for a beater/project, join the Club DSM mailing list. I'm friends with a few of those guys, and FWIU, there're always cars out there.

jemiller · October 2002

30psi is surprisingly low, but then a lot depends on tire design.

More rear negative camber, and more rear anti-roll bar, sounds like you're setting up for higher-speed corners and best use of rear wheel grip. Autocrossers might be able to use more turn-in grip, what's the OEM front camber setting and adjustment range?

necros · October 2002

I was running a little under 40 cold all around, and definitely not getting any rollover. In fact, I could see the line where the RS-As had been "aggressively heat-cycled" during competition.

I think I will maybe start out at 36 or so, and mess around there. I need to get myself some chalk for my tires...

I will check out Club DSM; thanks for the tip.

sevenfeet0 · October 2002

You're right between exit 8 and 9? My office is off exit 9 (Haynes Bridge Rd) to the west. What's your car's color? I've have to beep at you if I see you on the highway! :-)

ajvdh · October 2002

Oh yeah, chalk marks! Good call, I knew I forgot something. I personally use white shoe polish, but you gotta let it dry thoroughly, otherwise it makes a biiig mess. Don't ask.

And jemiller has a good point. Can you add more front camber?

mcgreenx · October 2002

What does "the same level of poise" means? I've never heard the term (but I've never been involved in car design).

mcgreenx · October 2002

Let me make an unsolicited suggestion about taking photos of cars moving at high speeds. When the shutter speed is set to a high (fast) duration, the action is "frozen," so the car looks as if it is standing still, even though it may be traveling at high speed. Try taking some pix at a slower shutter speed, but try to follow the car as it passes, and squeeze the shutter release as the car is close to being "abeam" of you. Once you get the hang of panning the camera in sync with the passing car speed, the car will remain sharp in the photo, but the background will be blurred, giving a dramatic impression of speed. It may take some practice, but it works.

jemiller · October 2002

The following being an example of the fast shutter-speed approach, as well as an example of another car it's good to see on the track now:

http://www.racerphoto.com/gallery/album04/IMG_0184

No CTSes in that run group, so far as I could tell.

As for "the same level of poise" I suspect what he means is that both manage a decent level of NVH control and all-around civility in day-to-day use, but that (in exchange for slightly sharper ride motiions and paying more attention to rear tire wear/rotation) the FE3 is intended to be crisper at the edge of adhesion.

akirby · October 2002

Actually, I'm at the north end of N. Point parkway at Windward (exit 11) and I don't commute on 400 (Thank God!). But if you see an Autumn Red LS in the area it could be me - there aren't that many.

macguy · October 2002

Hi again, It have been a while since my last post (I am the one from Saudi Arabia #1118). Well, I did the test drive on a black luxury sport variant. I thought the engine is loud when pressed on, the suspension does not like rough roads, too much plastic feel all around, press any of the buttons on the top consul and you can feel the plastic and you see the whole roof liner around the consol depress slightly too, and the worst of all, I did not feel the neck snapping performance I was expecting. But the car was very stable in all kinds of turns, generally smooth, no wind sound blowing over the windows frame, fast, looks great on the outside, and has a really really exceptional sound system. I had to tell me self that this is a 7 second car (although it did not feel so) and I recalled the rave reviews and all the exciting posts on this list, all of you can't be wrong........... So I bought it.

Thanks guys you are great. Thanks trichard and sevenfeet0 for the info you provided to my post.

Before laying down the cash I checked the Audi A6. Audi offers a 2.4 litre A6 which sells for the exactly the same cost as the CTS, and they made me a deal were it would have saved me a $grand over the CTS. Wonderful car with excellent details and fit and finish and excellent dash board, i loved the window shades and wished they were on the CTS, but the exterior is too lame and the 2.4V6 is too weak for me, i want a performance engine. As for the BMW, I would never buy it, too expensive and have its share of regular workshop visits. The Mercedes 240E was too nice and it really had me thinking, but it was the bold styling and sub 7 second CTS engine that won me at the end.

When I went to pay for the car this morning I saw that the dealer is selling a 2002 black new STS for only $37400. That is one grand less than the cost of my CTS, and that STS is loaded including the wood steering wheel and the chrome wheels. I still went with the CTS, what do you think guys, did I do the right thing.

My CTS is sport luxury dark blue with the chrome wheels, will take delivery in 2 days. I can't wait, so does my wife, she liked it over all other cars we saw.

macguy · October 2002

STS and SLS: Seville Touring and Luxry Sedan
DTS: Deville Touring Sedan
CTS: ???? Touring Sedan ?

dindak · October 2002

Catera Touring Sedan I thought.

mannytranny · October 2002

I believe that it means... C class Touring Sedan.

Congrats on your purchase!!!!! Hope that you will enjoy driving your CTS and trust me, it's fun to drive.

mcgreenx · October 2002

If you go to this link (of the CTS Cadillac site), there should be a series of photos to select. The next to the last (to the right) shows a sedan with a sunroof, shot from above. I've seen better examples, but it demonstrates what I was trying to say, the background is a little blurred and gives a sense of motion and speed to the vehicle. Try it. (I tried it and it worked for me.)BR>

http://www.cadillac.com/cadillacjsp/models/cts/images.html

richw5 · October 2002

Ken,

I've raced Corvette's on dirt tracks during the mid-sixty's and have driven 427 AC Cobra's, Detomaso Pantera's, Big Block 454 Corvette's and of course my own '98 Vette Roadster. Still, I can't remember any of those cars being more fun to drive than our CTS. The Cadillac engineering team should be complemented on it's achievement.

My one regret is that the new, more powerful 6 cylinder wasn't available for the 2003 car. Retirement means our cars will have to last a little longer, so we can't upgrade next year (maybe).

I know you can't prematurely release information, but are you involved in the testing of the CTS-V? Has the road testing of the next-gen STS started?
Will you be involved? If your team does as good a job at engineering "driving fun" into those vehicles, Cadillac will be back sooner than most " auto buff magazine writers" would like to admit.

I received a CTS CD from Cadillac about a week ago. It shows a young Cadillac engineer taking the CTS around a famous German test track (can't spell the track name this early in the morning). The manufacturing section was great too. Cadillac should have commercials that show "people build the CTS". They live in Michigan and are proud of the cars they build.

Just my opinion,

Rich

macguy · October 2002

i checked the auto week CTS review, 7.5 sec 0-60...how come. Road and Track reported 6.9 in an automatic as part of head to head comparison with a BMW 330i and the new infinity G35. what is going on. i also recall someone here reporting about 16.5 on the draf strip while motor trend reported mid 15s in their test. And the car i test drived sure felt like a low 8 sec 0-60. I am confused.

I am taking delivery of my CTS tomorrow, and the fisrt thing i will do once i pass the first 1000 miles it to really test the 0-60 times. Hope i will not be dissapointed

oldsman01 · October 2002

I got that DVD as well. I was very impressed with the manufacturing facility. If only GM would have that kind of commitment to quality in all their plants and all their cars from the most expensive Cadillac down to the cheapest Cavalier.

Macguy, was the STS new or was it used or a demo? A brand new STS for that price would be VERY tempting. I like the CTS alot and for it's price it is a great car, but the STS is pure luxury. And nothing sounds better than a Northstar V8 at full throttle.

tgp1810 · October 2002

the "C" stands for Cadillac...
Cadillac Touring Sedan

mannytranny · October 2002

The time and speed on the dragstrip should really be in the 15s. This was my first time at the strip with my CTS and I was not prepared to race that day but the opportunity presented itself.

The car really loves to go fast and I felt if I would have had one more run that day I , too, would have been in the 15 second area. There is only one more chance this year and I'm going to try again.

Just wait til you pass the 1000 mile mark and you will see that the car does what it promises. I did the times with a manual transmission and was really out of practice.

I make it a practice never to accelerate(race) on a regular street but sometimes the person in the next lane just asks to see what a CTS can do.When the challenge is put out, I generally accept. I have the luxury package not the sport so I cannot answer what differences if any there would be.. I don't believe that anyone else has gone to a dragstrip with their CTS. But I just had to go with this manual trans to see what it could do. I also feel that since it was raced the car seems to accelerate more quickly and gets the RPMs up there faster.(Probably just wishful thinking)

I don't feel that you will be disappointed at all. Just enjoy!!!!!!

cadman88 · October 2002

The C stands for C series as mannytranny said.

S in SRX stands for S Series just like the next STS.

Here is how the naming thing works.

First letter:Denotes the series (S Series C Series ect...)

Second letter and third describe what type of vehicle it is CTS (Touring Sedan) SRX (reconfigurable Crossover) XLR (Luxury Roadster)

jemiller · October 2002

No one wants to say the obvious: that, whatever the spinmeisters may have come up with for the origins of the terms, their original derivation is still from Seville, Catera, and De Ville.

Haven't seen any reference to it on here, but the current issue of CAR (the Brit mag) has a shot of (a dark-primered CTS with big many-spoked wheels) what they claim is the CTS V, and they quote rumor that it's 3 sec/lap quicker around the Nordschleife than the M3.

oldsman01 · October 2002

Other than the lackluster Catera name, I see nothing wrong with the letters standing for what the former model names were. In fact, I'd like to see the next generation STS called the Seville. Wonder what letter designation the Escalade would be given if Cadillac went totally to letters.

tgp1810 · October 2002

I thought I read somewhere that the C stands for Cadillac. Oh well.

wwhite2 · October 2002

I also read somewhere Cadillac Touring Sedan

baron87 · October 2002

Here's the official deal from Cadillac...

CTS does not stand for anything. It is the C-Series Touring Sedan. Escalade will not receive an alphanumeric. Seville and Deville will be discontinued at next model introductions.

sevenfeet0 · October 2002

What does the "C" in "CTS" stand for? Hmmm....

Catera Touring Sedan? Maybe...

Cimarron Touring Sedan? Good lord I hope not...

Calais Touring Sedan? Does anyone even remember the Calais?

Well, there is at least a pattern of naming entry level Caddies starting with the letter "C" since the early '60s. So I guess "CTS" works.

Series 61 anyone? :-)

macguy · October 2002

Richw5: the STS is brand new, not demo, just brand new. It is the last one left so it is on show floor at the time being till it go. The sales man is telling me that they will not be geting any sivilles for 2003, not till the end of year when they get the new 2004s. So they just want to get rid of this one and hence the great price. I passed it out because of that same fact, I do not want to spend on a car that I know will be obsolete and old news in under a year. Also it is just the old news in terms of looks and the EVOC style is in. Finally, I would never drive a V8 frontwheel drive with an engine placed in the wrong direction. The CTS is the better choice, or so I thought.

LAst but not least, some guys on this list did mention that they were more impressed by the CTS after having driven a loaner Deville (or may be Sevill). I really did take that into account as well as all the good reviews i read here. My brother did consider an STS 2 years ago, but was put off by the not so exciting posts and problem reports on the STS forum. But htis forum has nothing but praise and very little problem reports.

Ah.. and another thing, this siville comes with free maintainace for the first 3 years or 60,000 mi of owner ship. i.e., you only pay for gas and take care of your tires, and that is it; you pay for nothing else, not even an oil change. The same apply to my new CTS. Do not know if that apply

Will be picking the CTS is 5 hours from now, by US time most of you will be just waking up. I can't wait...

Cadillac CTS/CTS-V

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