Cadillac CTS/CTS-V

b4z · April 2003

Production starts 6/09/03!
Straight from GM.

calicadi · April 2003

In for the steering check and an oil change. Bolt was found at spec. Manager said they'd had close to 200 in for the check and had yet to find one needing correction. Asked what they knew of Vogue exhaust mods. He said to-date they had not done any Vogue CTS mods but he just got two requests for Escalade mods and would forward my questions to the Vogue rep. I'll report what I hear back.

b4z · April 2003

Some are very interesting to say the least. Lots of 20" wheels, etc.

Ignore the first car. The guy photoshopped it.

http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/search_results.pl?make=Cadi- llac&model=CTS

ctsjerry · April 2003

Attention CTS fans: I'm trying to get together some of you owners and prospective owners for an informal get together here in the L.A./South Bay area. Thus far I only have three of us, but we're going to do it soon. We're thinking of someplace with a nice parking lot, Freeway close, on a Saturday or Sunday. Some place where we can have breakfast or lunch would be nice. Anyone interested? Any ideas for a location? If so, please write: Jerry@LACCC.com

richm4 · April 2003

I'd rather take the 48 months as opposed to 60 since I may only keep the car for 4 years, plus I just plain old hate the idea of being in debt, even if the finance rate is 0%.

wwhite2 · April 2003

I have also spent enough time on these forums to see that there is a ownership culture who will ONLY take their cars to the dealer and TAKE anything they say as the final word . advice or parts ... they will only buy dealer parts/labor and price is no object. Because in their minds their are no alternatives oh well I guess people still think they have to pay sticker price too

oldsman01 · April 2003

Sweedish cars in particular always have supremely comfortable seats. When sitting in cars at the local auto show last fall, the Saab 9-3 and 9-5, Volvo S80, and Cadillac STS had the best seats. Mind you all the cars had their batteries disconnected so no adjustments could be made on cars with power seats. For me, if you can get in a car that you haven't been in before and the seat is comfortable without any adjustments, that is a good car seat. Having driven a CTS twice and been able to adjust the seat to my liking, I recall it has having pretty good perches as well. If I do a 9-3, it will almost certainly be a lease as would a CTS.

cu95 · April 2003

The 0% financing is very tempting. I've pretty much decided I'm buying a CTS, the only question is when. I could conceivably hold out until the 2004s roll out (August?), although that would require a lot of vehicle juggling with the wife. Anyone want to make an intelligent guess on what the base 2004s with automatic are going to cost? If its a big jump up, then all the more reason just to buy now, but if it's only slight it would nice to get that new 3.6L engine. (The 2003s have already had two price increases, I can only assume that the 2004s will come out at an even higher price.)

jemiller · April 2003

In the sedan world, I'd rate BMW's sport seats as being the best out there if you fit them - they're a little narrow if you're over 200lb.

In the great world of automotive homogenation the Audi and Jaguar sport seats (S-Type R) are very similar, but the Audi and Saab lack the adjustable thigh support. Saab used a seat similar to the Audi's in the 9-3 Viggen; I think they're using it in the 9-5 Aero now too.

I like the CTS seats quite a bit, they're about as good as...dare I say it...the Catera's were. The Catera had great seats.

The US market likes to kill cows for seats, it's difficult to even find a car without leather upholstery anymore. Unfortunate, because with slippery leather you need big side bolsters to keep you from sliding around.

b4z · April 2003

With most cars today leather is only on the seat bottom and back.
Everything else is vinyl.
Don't know why cloth isn't offered more. it would be a significant price reduction in most luxury cars.
I guess resale is the reason.
I like the leather in my Impala, but in the Summer I would prefer cloth.

b4z · April 2003

That 0% for 60 months is really tempting.
But, I am an engine guy and would want the newest and most powerful engine in any car that I bought.
So, I have resigned myself to wait for the '04s and pray that there will be some kind of incentive on the '04s when they first come out.

b4z · April 2003

This link was posted many months ago.
I still think it is the best looking and most tasteful modded CTS I have seen.

http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=254734- &make_type_query=make%3DCadillac&model_brand_query=model%- 3DCTS&tree=Cadillac%20CTS

richw5 · April 2003

wwhite2 - I take my cars to a dealer for service for three reasons. Warranty, quality of service and my own lack of knowledge and tools, when repairing todays complex cars.

As a young man, I rebuilt engines and carburetors, changed spark plugs, starters and manifolds and did a lot more than I wish to do now. I paid my dues and it's time to let someone else do the work.

From the early 60's through the late 90's, I always changed my own oil. However, each year, it gets harder and harder to crawl under the car, when dealer specials are almost as cheap as doing it yourself. In addition, I don't have the problem of disposing of the used oil.

While I bought my car at a dealer in Schaumburg, Illinois, I take it for service at a Cadillac dealer in Naperville. The reason; the Naperville dealer treats me with respect and completes the work "on time" with no hidden charges.

My '99 STS just went out of warranty. The service department offered to check for things needing repair, before it expired. They also asked if I wanted a loaner, which I didn't need and kept the car for three days, repairing all sorts of "minor" things. The dealer calls after every service trip, to ask if my work was done properly and if I was happy with their service.

I've started bringing the CTS to that dealer too. They also have the best shot at selling me my next car.

b4z - I agree with you 100%. In particular, I love those wheels. The CTS needs 18 inch wheels to fill the wheel openings. The rocker panels are nice too. They give some shape to the side view.

Rich

cu95 · April 2003

b4z mentioned in his post that he was hoping for incentives on the 2004 when they roll out. I don't follow the car market closely so I can't speak from experience, but it would surprise me if that was the case. Wouldn't GM want to see how many they can sell to eager shoppers at sticker price before resorting to incentives? Or are immediate incentives a common occurrence?

sevenfeet0 · April 2003

The percentage of cars with leather seats is definitely a North American car buying quirk. Although leather is certainly a luxury item in Europe, people driving entry level luxury vehicles often order either cloth or "leatherette". But in America, people like leather, so you can get it from Saab to Saturn. Of course, the quality of the leather varies from brand to brand...

wwhite2 · April 2003

I will agree with you when I get to old I am sure I wont want to be crawling under the car etc . But until then I got the tools and the will ( recently swapped out a DOHC in my wifes Saturn SC2 ) . I am 44 so I guess I have a good 15 yrs left. Of course I will let the dealer do warranty work, the problem is they can often do it incorrectly or cause other problems during the repair, of course its eventually fixed but it is very annoying . I am glad you have found a good dealer service dept that you can trust ,that is not always the easiest thing to do . There is a severe shortage of good automotive techs and the dealer service depts have to settle for second best employees and cross their fingers that the customers will not get to upset with the problems that will occur. It's a shame that more youth dont get into the trade it's a great paying respectable trade the needs a LOT more people

richw5 · April 2003

wwhite2 - I'm 60, but I don't feel old, just retired. I should have said that I don't have the desire or the knowledge to do repair work on our car(s) any more. Lately, we've been fortunate in finding used cars (about a year old) with a lot of warranty left. The CTS had about 60 miles on the odometer when I picked it up, so the warranty should last for a while.

Last April, I took the '99 STS back to the dealer where I bought it, for an oil change. I waited for three hours and when I checked, they hadn't even put it on the rack. Needless to say, I asked for my car and drove to the dealer I currently use. It's like night and day. The service is excellent and they treat their customers like they care.

The last engine I rebuilt (1967) was in an MGB. It was a lot simpler then. We even had some left over parts. Couldn't figure where they belonged, but the car started and my buddy drove it from San Antonio to Boston without a problem.

Rich

wwhite2 · April 2003

I too can remember when an engine had the wiring of a tach and battery wire, alt and an oil pressure sender connection . THe saturn DOHC had about 25-30 connections in the engine harness . things have changed P.S . warranties are good because parts are so expensive but warranties dont last forever :-(

ctsjerry · April 2003

We bought our 2003 CTS last November 2nd. It's a Luxury Sport model, in Sable Black with the Dark Pewter interior. Our car has ALL the options EXCEPT for the NAV system and the Moon Roof. We absolutely love the car. I got a great discount through my work (GM supplier) and the 0% down, 0% financing (36 months) and 90 days to pay was really tough to pass up. Besides, we are nuts on this great car and HAD to have it. I guess if I were thinking about buying one now, I might be tempted to wait for a 2004 model. But I really think the 2003 is an "Introductory Offer" that will definitely go up in price as the new models come out. The 2003 is an ice breaker that is intended to get the new Cadillac design concept out into the public. We hear that the V8 model will be about $9000 more than this year's model. It figures. With the price of the Devilles, STSs and Escalades presently so high, they probably will move the CTS price up a bit once the popularity of the new style catches on. Anyways, if anyone wants to hear some first hand experience with the car, I can certainly give you feed back. CTS Jerry

wwhite2 · April 2003

Have I seen you post on the caddyedge?

calicadi · April 2003

(cont'd from #2496)
My dealership asked the Vogue rep to contact me directly since I had lots of questions. He (Vogue) called not long after I got back from the dealer. So here's the scoop: What Vogue calls their Stage I is what the rep says is the best deal. It's $1750 installed, provides noticeable power increase (his est. 10-12 hp) without being obnoxiously loud, all metal components are made from quality stainless (even the hangers), includes the double cutout valance (that will need to be painted), polished tips, and has a 4 year warranty. If you go to the Vogue site, the system pictured is the Stage I.

The rep says the other system mentioned on the site is significantly louder, costs $2150 (un-installed price) and the language on the site that it's a true dual cat-back is not accurate.

My guess: The $2150 solution simply eliminates the center muffler, runs a long single-pipe extension from the engine-side Y-pipe to another Y and then out to two mufflers (hence not true dual cat-back), whereas the Stage I retains the center muffler, adds a Y-pipe just aft the diff and out to two low-restriction resonators.

More rep talk... he said he'd been driving a Stage I and found it very comfortable noise-wise, and thought the other too loud and more for posers who don't realize a loud V6 sounds like crap. He also mentioned Vogue is working on a CTS cold air induction system that should be available in a couple of months.

PS the photo that b4z recently re-posted is the Vogue VTXi set up.

mcgreenx · April 2003

Looks like the 2004 Sport price with be HUGELY more than '03 because of the added standard equipment, but at least the lumbar support will be available. The '04 will be the car the '03 should have been, but I don't know that I would have gotten one because of the higher cost.

b4z · April 2003

The only way I will be able to buy a 2004 CTS is if I can keep the MSRP at 35K or below.
This will give me a purchase price of around 32K
with the dealer's discount.
If it costs more than that I will have to look elsewhere.
A price increase will also mess up Cadillac's plan of a lower demographic.
Because this 40 year old is unwilling to pay anymore than that.
And I am sure there are others like me who would like to stay around 30K.
Maye I will have to look at the Maxima.

tyler80 · April 2003

I am 22 and plan to buy a 2004 CTS but I'm not going to if what I want costs 40K.

b4z · April 2003

Looks like they are now building more CTSs than Devilles according to this week's figures.
1504 CTSs last week and 6,216 in March.

Caddy may very well be building 60,000 CTSs per year.

This car is more successful than anyone at Cadillac ever dreamed.

dindak · April 2003

I always say, build it and they will come. CTS is a great car with great quality. No reason it should not sell. Now if GM could just build equally good low end cars, they would actually start to really gain some market share back.

jemiller · April 2003

Depends on the car - 3 of the 4 leather-upholstered cars (2 BMWs and a Ford) in the house have leather on the sides and backs of the seats, etc. One has leather on the console - I didn't get the leather-dash-and-doorpanels option. Our old Q45 had leather everywhere.

ctsjerry · April 2003

Hi tyler80, wwhite2 & b4z- Yes I'm one of the major posters at caddy edge. I agree with you guys that I hope GM keeps the price down as much as possible, to encourage the younger car buyers to buy Cadillacs. To be truthful, the CTS is the only Caddy we could afford in today's market. We sold our 1991 Sedan Deville (we bought new) to get this CTS. The prices of the other Cadillac models are way out of my range ($43K to $70K). Now remember, I'm 56 years old, so I'm no youngster! Ha! I think you will be able to get a nice 2004 CTS in the mid $30K range, IF you don't get the big V8 and a lot of options. The 2003 California Special, that is on our Dealer's lot, has the most popular options for about $35K. It has MACHINED 17" wheels (NOT polished), automatic trans, moon roof, 6 CD in dash, black dashboard, and Stabiltrak 2.0. Not much more, but the price is kept lower by doing this special edition. Our Dealer has about eight of them in stock right now. I wonder if they will be selling special editions in other States?

ctsjerry · April 2003

I read with interest the earlier posts on the "Dealer Vs Independent" controversy. I gave up a long time ago on using independent garages to work on my new Cadillacs. In an area like Los Angeles, that has about 8 Cadillac Dealers to chose from, I think it's a necessity. These new cars are just getting too hi-tech to let just anyone tinker with them. The warranty could be voided in a heart beat, if someone messes something up, even if unintentionally. And you know the Dealers would just love to tell you, "I'm sorry, we don't cover that blown head gasket because it was worked on by an unauthorized mechanic". The GM Dealers now keep all the car's records on computer. Each and every oil changes, repair or complaint. I like the Dealer's access to parts and up-to-date training they get. Now don't get me wrong, I do alot of work on my other cars, but the new high end cars built today are beyond the comprehension of most shade tree mechanics. My vintage cars (two '55 Chevys & a '48 Ford Woody) are worked on by me or my favorite independent Shop, because they are pretty straight forward to work on. Obviously one would never consider using a Dealership to work on one of them. Also if I had an older Cadillac, out of warranty, I think I might consider using an independent Shop, if I found one I could trust. So in summary I think you have to weigh the benefits of using an independent Shop versus a Dealer, on a car by car basis. One is not necessarily better than the other.

jrockb4 · April 2003

Especially since GM is keeping the 3.2L for a year to provide a manual option. I wonder how they will price the 2 different models, with vastly different engines and power. Will the be a price difference for the 3.6 vs the 3.2 or will teh only difference be the price of the Auto vs manual?

b4z · April 2003

Interesting point. The auto is now a $1200 option.
I would guess that Cadillac would almost have to charge a premium for the new engine.

Or maybe they will make it 1 option.
Get the 3.6L and the auto comes with it.

wwhite2 · April 2003

I agree a dealer does have dedicated equipment and OEM parts. The problem is quite often the employees ....service managers and techs are the same across the board . Everyone draws from the same talent pool and talent is getting really hard to find .They all mostly need to hire second-third best and cross their fingers customers will put up with the inherent problems that will happen .

thebug · April 2003

Just finished a 4500K road trip with the CTS. Drove for six days in all for seasons (sometimes in the same day), this included a blizzard in the Rockies for 120 miles (coming and going) through the twisty turneys, a tornado in Kansas, with hail and heavy rain, icy roads in Ohio, and very pleasant weather on the West Coast. This was the ultimate test drive. The car handled flawlessly.

Got so involved with the bose system (I do jazz) and the view, I missed the low fuel warning and ran out of gas in the middle of Utah 200 miles from the nearest "largely" populated area in any direction. Called OnStar, and a tow truck responded within 30 minutes with 5 gallons of free gasoline. Said he came from a town 3 miles away (population 147 not on the map). So I can say, OnStar lived up to there promise.

Challenged the Virgin River Gorge up hill and down at speeds of 95 to 100. This gorge has recommended speeds in the turns of 55-60 MPH, and the CTS handled them without breaking. I know I could have driven faster with no problem. I Got a challenge from a 2002 BMW 540 on the way up the gorge (15 miles of twisty turneys at 95-110 MPH), both driver and passenger gave a thumbs up at the end of the run as I blew by. I may have sold a CTS in that regard.

The car is awesome. Tested all the cars systems (including the OnStar), from sitting still idling for 2 hours in a snow storm at Vail Pass, to performance at high and low speeds (engine breaking is excellent) in snowy/clear mountainous terrain, and everything in between. Only exchanged pleasanties with the highway patrol once, (if you play with your gadgets while driving, it's easy to slip into triple digits with realizing it). No trip is complete without that. I had a ball, love driving this car.

To sum it up, I can only say, WOW!!!

thebug...

ctsjerry · April 2003

Thanks for the GREAT write-up "thebug"! I have been only driving around "sunny" Southern Califonia, so I haven't pushed my car that much (3300 miles on the odometer). We CTS owners had been wondering how the car would handle the cold & snow. Very glad to hear that it still inspires a thumbs up in that climate too! I too, think this car is fantastic. I have had zero problems thus far, except for problems caused by yours truly (I torn my front seat by accident. Tip: Never carry wire cutters in your back pocket. That dumb mistake cost me $500 to fix) and road hazards like stuff falling off trucks and rock chips (ouch!)

mannytranny · April 2003

GM just announced that there will be overnight test drives available at participating dealers. Cadillac cars are included. Anyone debating about a purchase should see if thier dealer is participating. It starts later this month.
Check AutoNews.

mannytranny · April 2003

http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=5000
is the website

sevenfeet0 · April 2003

A lot of dealers do this anyway. Maybe they are just making sure it's available across the board.

ctsjerry · April 2003

I originally posted this on the InterNet on February 11th. Maybe you didn't see it. I hope that it will be helpful for anyone considering buying a 2003 CTS.

I made my first payment 10 days ago. Amazing what you can do with zero percent down, zero percent interest for 36 months and 90 days to pay! I'm writing this "Drive Report" to help others who may be thinking about buying a new CTS. Keep in mind that I haven't bought a new car in 12 years, and my last new car was a 1991 Cadillac Sedan Deville. The technology changes & quality improvements are enormous. My CTS is a Sable Black model with the Dark Pewter interior, with the Luxury Sport Package, 5 speed automatic trans, Bose 6 CD in-dash sound system, accessory pass through rear seat, heated front seats and Xenon headlights. The car now has about 2250 miles on the odometer. I have had no reason to return the car for repair or service (a big change from my '91 that had numerous "little" problems when only days old). Everything is working fine except for a couple of minor nitpicks: the analog clock is an irritating 2 minutes slower than the digital clock, no matter what I do. The car needs to warm up for a few minutes, before taking off. If you rush it, it runs just a little rough. To be fair, this is getting better as the engine breaks in. As an engineer, I don't like to abuse my machinery. Once warmed up, the engine really loves to be reved. At speed on the freeway, it's just temendous. The throttle response is quick and the variable speed rack & pinion steering gives a very secure feeling. The car drives like it's on rails in the corners.
The more I look at this car, the more I like it. It has a lot of fine details, not noticed until you live with the car. The finish of the paint is almost perfect. The underhood details are very well done, and neatly laid out. I love the interior design of the dash & side panels EXCEPT that I wish the window sill was a bit softer on my left elbow (as an aside, I noticed the other day that the Escalade has the same semi-hard rubber door treatment). The fit & finish of the interior is very nice. I can't help wonder why some reviwers knock it. I like the hi-tech Kevlar look of the dash covering. At night the dash lighting is a joy to behold. I love the way that each & every button is backlit. Nice touch. My wife loves her heated seat, and I like it too, especially with my achy back. The trunk is surprisingly spacious. I bought an additional Cargo Net, so my car now has two: one for the stuff on the trunk floor, and one for the stuff behind the backseat. The programable features of the car are really neat, but makes the Owner's Manual a must read. I swear I learn something new EVERY time I read it. I do think that some folks, not computer savy or so inclined, might have problems programming the car. I suppose the Dealer would help you program the car, if need be.

Things I'd improve: 1) Drop the analog clock and replace it with a Temp Gauge. 2) Enlarge Glove box to hold the thick Owner's Manual (this is a problem on ALL the new cars I've seen with passenger side air bags). 3) Hood release is too close to the brake release (I've popped the hood by accident about 5 times now). 4) Add an auto brake release like the other Caddys of years past (I forget to release that lever; still used to my '91 Caddy I guess) 5) Automatic transmission seems to upshift too soon when accelating slowly.

Things I love: 1) The bold F117 Nighthawk/Cadillac Evoq inspired styling 2) The 17" polished wheels & Goodyear tires. 3) The paint finish & overall quality. 4) The front engine, rear wheel drive design (front & rear independent suspension is really a wonder of engineering; check it out) 5) The Xenon headlights and 3D look of the rear tail lights. Beautiful! 6) The Bose 6 CD changer and sound system (much better than I had expected). 7) The heavy duty 4 wheel power assisted disk brakes. Man, do they stop you fast! A must here on L.A.'s infamous 405 Freeway. 8) The Driver Information Center (lots of info here). 9) Spacious trunk. 10) Onstar & handsfree phone. GREAT!

All in all, I highly recommend this car. I absolutely love driving it. How you equip it is up to you, but I do think the Luxury packages are definitely worth the extra money.

b4z · April 2003

Unfortunately many of them are negative, but they are actual owner impressions.

http://www.carreview.com/pscAutomobiles/Luxury,Cars/Cadillac,CTS/- PRD_132864_1529crx.aspx

Hope it doesn't turn anybody off from buying one.

b4z · April 2003

April 18th at the New York Auto Show.

wwhite2 · April 2003

Where can I get a listing of technical service bulletins on the CTS ?

hammen2 · April 2003

http://www.nhtsa.gov

AllData sells 'em as well... I think at http://www.alldatadiy.com

Hope this helps,

-Robert

sevenfeet0 · April 2003

Just read that web site....I've never seen anyone have so many problems with this car. Most owners here have had pretty good luck with the CTS and the empirical data would suggest it. But every manufacturer has at least a lemon or two out there, and his car probably should be treated accordingly.

sevenfeet0 · April 2003

Could you hear the Led Zeppelin music in your head when you were dancing with the BMW 540i? :-)

thebug · April 2003

I read the review as well and I say DITO. We should be happy that we didn't pick that one.

And in regards to Led Zepplin, but of course. The CTS rocks.

thebug...

thebug · April 2003

I appreciate your honest review. The best reviews come from the owners (good or bad), unlike the auto mags and web sites, who tend to present an obvious bias towards certain auto makes (Cadillac is one that comes to mind).

Many of my peeves are similar to yours, especially the one with the window sill, but these are all minor. I am very pleased with my CTS, and thanks to all who posted honest reviews prior to my purchase in Nov 02, I was able choose the best options for my needs. As you all may well know, word of mouth is the best source of advertisment.

The consumer reviews say it all. Unfortunately, there is an occasional bad apple, but this happens in all makes. The CTS rocks.

thebug...

b4z · April 2003

I guess someone is more likely to post a negative review than a positive one.

pat · April 2003

Go see the Town Hall's good friend 0patience over on the Maintenance & Repair board: 0patience "Technical Service Bulletins" Feb 27, 2003 1:50am.

He'll get you any TSB that you need. (Tell him I sent you!)

:-)

necros · April 2003

BTW, there is a shelf built into the glove compartment specifically to hold the owners manual...

sonjaab · April 2003

The NHTSA site now charges you to see the full TSB you want. Used to be free ! Now they just
show complaints and some of the info. for free.
Heck even Alldata charges now ! But still helpful
tho....................

Cadillac CTS/CTS-V

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