Cadillac CTS/CTS-V

necros · May 2003

Ajvdh, yeah that was the school in the Springs. Let me tell you, driving in that stuff at 5 am on summer tires sucked hardcore. I almost lost it a few times going down 25. And I don't think we're that far apart (I'm in Arvada), so we got a lot of snow, too. And of course, once we passed the Palmer Divide, it was beautiful and sunny.

fav002, it was the pics of your car that made me get my CTS in black with the two-tone interior, and I love the looks of it. Very cool for you to try to hook members of the board up with a discount. Mad rup!

AWD would be awesome. Now if I could only get the CTS-V in AWD, I could maybe make it my next car. ATM, thoug, it's looking like a Suby WRX STi in my future...

I always give other CTS drivers a wave, and have yet to get one back. Dunno why. Although there was a white VTXi on the road the other day, and we were checking each other out...

b4z · May 2003

Or the new engine comes with the auto option.

i wonder how they will do that?

Pay $1200 for the auto and get the new engine?

tornado25 · May 2003

From what I've seen, I believe the current engine will be available, but stick only and the new engine (3.6 totally new design) will be auto only. That applies for 04 only. Sounds like in 05, the "current" engine will be gone altogether and then the new 3.6 will be available with both trannies.

I think this has something to do with the fact that the manual needs to be reworked a little to work with the new engine.

mannytranny · May 2003

I was talking about the base price difference between the 03 and the 04 CTS. Since the 04 only comes with an auto trans it will cost more than the 03 CTS that came standard with a manual trans. To add an auto trans was about $1200 on an 03. So I figure that the base cost will be about $1200 more just to include it.
Can't figure out how the 05 will price everything out. Maybe this is the way that Cadillac will gradually increase the base price of a CTS ......hmmmmm

peccles · May 2003

The base '04 will still be a 5 speed manual with
the 3.2L engine. The auto trans will be optional
with the 3.2L. The 3.6L is only offered with
the auto trans in '04. In '05, the 3.6L will
be the base engine. A 6 speed manual trans will
be available in '05 but not sure if it will be
standard or an option like the Corvette.

I'll be in the market for a new car in 18 months
and the CTS will be a serious consideration.
Would like to see magnetic ride control and
heads up display available for '05. Making the
CD player capable of playing MP3s would be a
plus.

b4z · May 2003

My understanding is that the '04 3.2L will be stick only with no auto available.

dindak · May 2003

That's right. 3.2L with stick only in 04. 3.6L with auto only in 04, manual added in 05.

thebug · May 2003

Post #2993 list the expected base at $31,000. After a few bells and whistles, it will be up a bit I guess. Average options on the 03 was about 4-4.5K.

thebug...

wwhite2 · May 2003

night vision should be an option too

dindak · May 2003

Saw an ad today in the paper for a dealer with a Matrix theme with a CTS and they were giving away PS2 / Xbox Matrix games with purchase. I wonder if Cadillac will do the same in the coming weeks.

oldsman01 · May 2003

The more I think about it I think I'm going to wait until the 04 CTS comes out and try to get a base model as for the most part the car comes well equipped in standard form. I would like the wood trim and heated seats that require a package but can live without everything else. Since I'm single and likely the only person who will ever drive the car, memory seats really are useless(except when you take your car to a car wash and the jockeys get the seats and mirrors in all different positions). I take it blue will still be offered in 04? How about the light grey/dark grey two tone interior? Since a temp gauge has already been added all I'm really waiting on is the new engine. After seeing Fav's pictures black or blue is definitely the way I'm going with my CTS. While my current car is black and is a paid to keep clean(espeically in the rainy season we are currently experiencing) dark colors look SO GOOD when they are clean and sitting in the sun. And IMO the CTS's body style just looks better in dark colors.

wwhite2 · May 2003

Is a temp gauge really necessary
1. I believe that most people dont look at their gauges enough to notice a problem before it turns into an event ( your suppose to be watching the road ) .A flashing red light will be caught by peripheral vision long before a gauge -you usually see or sense over heating evidence then look down at the gauge .2 The gauge isn't a true indicator that your engine has reached proper operating temp. That is determined by the OIL reaching proper operating temp . which happens well after the coolant has reached it's thermostat controlled temp .An oil temp gauge would be better and maybe coolant temp available in the DIC. That said ,a temp gauge looks cool so why not !!! PS I just read a review on the NEW 153K Aston Martin Vantage and it raved about the analog clock on the instrument panel

bingoman · May 2003

You may believe that most people don't look at their temperature gauges often enough to avoid trouble, but I believe that you are wrong. And, in any case I certainly look at my gauge, especially when I am going up a long desert hill in 110 degree summer heat. I want to know, long before the engine has overheated, what my engine heat situation is. In 15 thousand miles of driving around the country, including a number of trips across the Southern California deserts I have not yet had any trouble, but when the car has 75 or 80 thousand miles on it the situation may change, and I certainly want to know of trouble brewing in advance. Having the engine overheat light come on with no warning while in the middle of the dessert, at least 30 or 40 miles from the nearest service, on a hot summer day, does not strike me as a happy experience.

wwhite2 · May 2003

ok I will give you an improperly maintained cooling system will eventually cause radiators tubes to narrow and give a slow temp rise to an over heating event while you travel up a steep grade in a desert. In a desert you probably need all the temperature reading you can get . Just guessing never been to one

sevenfeet0 · May 2003

IMHO, if a Mercury Grand Marquis that's marketed to 70 year olds can have analog oil, water and battery gauges on the dash, then so can the CTS.

jemiller · May 2003

Please note, however, that many (most?) modern temperature gauges are 'buffered' - that is, they don't read normal variations in engine temperature, they'll have a 'cold', a 'normal', an 'overheated', and maybe a 'high normal' needle position.

What's really useful if you want to know what your engine is doing is an OIL temperature gauge.

oldsman01 · May 2003

Saw the Matrix Reloaded this afternoon, not a bad flick at all. Lots of great effects. It was cool seeing the CTS in there but man it got shot all to hell. The car chase scene was pretty good, but I'm always amazed at how easy cars will flip in the movie. I know I know it is on purpose to create excitement just like everytime a car drives off a cliff it explodes. Speaking of car movies, there is a sequel to the Fast and the Furious(not sure if thats a good idea or not) and an "Americanized" remake of The Italian Job.

oldsman01 · May 2003

Not to beat a dead horse on the temp gauge and whether they are 100% accurate or not is debatable but I still want one. I know that if the temp gauge on my Intrigue gets above the 1/2 mark that something is not right as it NEVER goes above that point. That would give me a little extra time to get off the freeway and get to a safe stopping place or even to a service bay. When an idiot light comes on, it is usually too late to do anything but stop. I'll give you that most people probably don't look at their temp gauge unless a warning light comes on, but I'm one of the few who does watch my gauges. And a car's instrument cluster just doesn't seem complete without at least a temp gauge.

bingoman · May 2003

I for one find it very interesting that a "sport" sedan, even one with an automatic transmission, needs a tachometer, but not temperature, oil pressure or temperature, or ammeter (ampmeter) gauges. and it needs a clock, the one "gauge" of interest to passengers in a location invisible to the passengers.

The 'powers that be' in detroit have this strange on and off' thing about driver information. Years ago they replaced some of the gauges, usually oil and ammeter with idiot lights. The public howled, so they put them back in some cars and made them an extra cost option in others. Now they seem to be going back to fancy pictogram idiot lights. When I learned to drive no one had tachometers except race cars, then the hot rods adopted tachometers which where reasonable for someone trying to get the most out of a small engine with a three, or maybe four speed transmission. Then Detroit discovered tachometers. What purpose does a tachometer serve with an automatic transmission, especially a computer controlled automatic transmission.

One of the best arrangements I have ever seen was on a Chrysler in which they had a complete set of gauges and one large red idiot light which lighted when any gauge went out of the safe zone. The light was big enough to get your attention an alert you to check the gauges to see what needed attention.

Please pardon my rant, but it is good to get it off my chest, thank you.

mannytranny · May 2003

Gauges

There I've said it! Enough...........

richw5 · May 2003

I have to agree, I want an engine temp gauge on the CTS. Although our CTS has been trouble free, several of my early cars had engine cooling problems (burst water lines and damaged radiators). One Olds Cutlass had a "U" shaped water hose on the block that would burst at least once a year. I kept a spare hose and tools in the trunk. My first indication the something was wrong, was a sudden rise in the "temp gauge".

My Dad had a '57 Ford that we used to cross the desert on our first vacation to California. He adjusted his speed to the variations of the temp gauge. It worked. While others were pulled to the side of the road, to cool their engines, we just kept moving along. I learned a lot about cars and driving from my Dad, even though he was a Ford fan (just kidding, I like Fords too).

As for tach's, I like them. I tend to shift my automatic tranny's a lot. I use the engine for braking when there's a police car behind and I've been exceeding the limit. Sudden brake lights tell the Law that you've been speeding. The tach helps judge when to down shift the tranny or when not too. Occasionally, when I see that the rpm's are too high, I know I've left the tranny in the wrong gear (I do that once in a while).

I would like to see the "Outside Temperature" on the rear-view mirror. That way I could use the Driver Information Center (DIC) for other functions.

Rich

necros · May 2003

For all those who really seem to want a temp gauge, do you know what you want it to measure? Oil temp, water temp, ambient engine air temp? I'm not sure a normal temp gauge on a car these days, that doesn't really do anything except provide the driver with a fake reading (as jemiller has said), is really all that useful. I think it's more of a feel-good gauge.

If you really need to know, I'd be happy to hook you up with a discount on some Autometer gauges you can add to your car.

jemiller · May 2003

I agree, it's good to have, and I believe strongly in gauges that show REAL indications.

The problem Detroit (and the other automakers) have encountered is that when you put in a real gauge, 2/3 of buyers run back to their dealer crying "Why's this thing moving around so much?"

And if there's one thing automakers (particularly their dealers) aren't interested in doing, it's trying to educate their customers. Forty years of failure to educate drivers about tire pressures and we now get a tire-pressure-indicator mandate from the government.

trichard2 · May 2003

Glad to see folks talking about "no temp gauge".
Its been my view all along that all the whining
about no temp gauge is much ado about nothing.

wwhite2 · May 2003

I agree with JEmiller people would freak out if " their gauge EVER went past half way . guess this prevents unnecessary trips to the service dept , I still would rather have an OIL temp gauge and coolant in the DIC with the warning light .

ctsjerry · May 2003

Probably not, but what the heck! At home my two stock '55 Chevys both have temp gauges. They have a metal thermal link that runs from the instrument into the intake manifold. The gauge has three "dots": "Cold", "Normal" and "Hot". In 1955 this caused all sorts of problems. Customers came in asking why wasn't their gauge EXACTLY on the "Normal" dot. So in 1956 the gauge had a "Cold Dot", a "Hot Dot" and a "Normal ARC". That wide arc made everybody happy! So that is probably why Detroit and others have tried to steer away from Temp Gauges over the years. People get overly concerned when it's no big deal if the car gets a little warm. They run better and are more smog efficient when they run hotter too. So I guess I should be happy with my two clocks! Ha!

ctsjerry · May 2003

I read the earlier post about waving to others in CTSs. He's right! I also posted something about that a week or so ago. Yes, there seems to be a bond between CTS owners that is different than owners of other makes. Similar to that of Corvette owners and those of us in the old car hobby. I think it's a response to the new Cadillac Revolution I've mentioned before. These are exciting times for Cadillac and I'm proud to be a part of this cutting-edge American styling and performance "C"-change.

ctsjerry · May 2003

Here is a site that graphicly shows the various colors available for 2003. http://cadcts.com/

ctsjerry · May 2003

See: http://caddyedge.com/gallery/CTS

rsteph · May 2003

Posed a question a while back (no replies so I'll try again) about changing the oil (how often), and oil additives. I'll add the request for comments about regular oil vs synthetic. Keep in mind that I change oil & filter, without fail, at least every 5,000 miles. I did hear that the oil filters for the CTS are hard to come by except from the dealer. This true?? For that matter (and I haven't gotten on the ground to look for it yet) is the filter easy to change on the CTS??
Almost 4-weeks now since we've had ours and, oddly enough, we've only seen 2 others on the road in all that time. I believe that they're selling hot and fast...but apparently not around here...haha.

cjs2002 · May 2003

Ya'll are scarring me with this talk of the 04 models... I can't drive a manual trans... and need an auto.. so I'm only lookin for a base with auto.. but now ya'll tell me that the 04 base 3.2 will only come as a manual and only the 3.6 will come as a auto... so what the heck will the base price be ... I hope this won't put it out of my range ... I love the car..any one know of any sites I can look at that may tell me some estimated pricings and stuff... I'm lookin to buy in August of this year... so hopefully they will have an 03.. if not I'll probably get the 04 as long as its not out of my price range... thanx

tornado25 · May 2003

Considering today Cadillac like to advise the car "starting at $29495 (or whatever)" to keep it under 30k, but no CTS probably ever stickers at that, and as others have said, most "base" CTS' are more like 31K, I would imagine the 3.6L plus having the required auto tranny would add at least $2500 to that. I would say you better aim for 34K w/o considering the lux or lux sport groups.

Also re: mannytranny's reply to my post: You are absolutely right, but don't forget that not only in addition to the cost of the auto tranny, you can sure bet that particular model will cost more because it has the new and improved and significantly more powerful engine--which will likely make the auto tranny sales that much larger by default.

ctsjerry · May 2003

Hi rsteph- First, CONGRATS on your new purchase!! Great car, isn't it? I was thinking about your oil questions today, and I thought I'd put my 2-cents worth in. When I bought my new '91 Caddy, I was told to bring it back in 500 miles to get it's first oil change. I believe in those days, they did use a thin so-called "break-in oil". But when I picked up my new CTS last November my sales rep said to just bring it back at 3000 miles for a free oil & filter change. My Dealership suggests 3000 miles between oil changes (it always has) which I believe is shorter than the suggested mileage in the Owner's Manual.

My buddy, Leon "The Motorman" Kaplan, has always said on his radio show that the most inexpensive thing you can do to protect your investment is to change the oil & filter every 3000 miles. He does not see the need for synthetics or additives, in a new car. Synthetics are good if you drive hard, in hot conditions and DON'T change your oil very often. If you change it often (3000 is often) then why spend the extra money on synthetics?

Insofar as filter availability, I haven't looked locally here in L.A. because I let the dealer do these things on my new cars. How do you get your CTS up off the ground to change the oil? It's pretty low and I don't think my 2 ton floor jack would slip under it. And where would you pick up the frame or suspension so you don't damage anything? I figure let the Dealer do it as everything is under warranty and I don't want to screw-up something. If the engine blows they can't accuse me of not changing the oil or leaving the drain plug loose. My vintage cars are another story, I do all of them myself and wouldn't trust anyone else (except Leon) to touch them.

Judging by the photos of the engine I've seen at CaddyEdge, the filter is pretty easy to get at, once the car is raised. Anyways, good luck with your new CTS!! -Jer:>)

rsteph · May 2003

Thanks for your thoughts and info Jer. I used to change every 3,000 miles then bumped it up to 5,000 when everything I started reading about the newer cars was suggesting 5,000-7,500 mile changes. I think I'll go back to every 3k though..just 'cause. At least on my CTS anyway. Like I said, I haven't looked under the car real good yet. Probably outta do that. I hear what you're saying about the jack and all. Don't know 'till I check it out good. Good point about the dealer doing it. On the other hand, it's a 50 mile round trip for me to the nearest dealer and (hate to sound cheap, but....) I just have a problem paying someone $40+ for something I can do for $10-$15.
As for sythetics vs regular oil. I did sythetics in my 2000 Impala for a while. Read somewhere that they were "smoother" because they were based on pure vegetable oil rather than petroleum..and therefore less particulates in them to cause wear. Then, later, I read that there were those who recommended them if you weren't good at changing your oil (like you said) but didn't recommend if you regularly did it. Since I'm pretty religious about the changes, I went back to regular oil (with an occasional Dura-Lube treatment (much as that's probably more of a waste...but we all have our quirks). Anyway, thanks for the response.

richw5 · May 2003

rsteph - I change my oil based on Cadillac's Oil Life Indicator (OLI). The first change came at about 7500 miles. I check the oil every few weeks, along with tire pressure, and my oil was just starting to pick up some color when it was changed. The OLI is extremely accurate and if you follow it you won't go wrong.

However, ctsjerry is right, the most inexpensive thing you can do to protect your engine is to change the oil at 3000 miles.

As for additives, here's an article that might answer your question.

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/pb/additive.htm

ctsjerry - I take our CTS to the dealer for oil changes too. They have specials about every couple of months. Note: if you need to jack up the CTS, the jack points are indicated on the outside of the rocker panel.

Rich

rsteph · May 2003

Thanks Rich. Very good article. I admit that I have fallen for the additive sales pitch. It appears I need to re-think the issue.

ctsjerry · May 2003

Hi RichW5 & rsteph- Thanks for your comments guys. I know where the "point marks" are on the body, but is there a frame section BEHIND those points that I can use my floor jack on? Sure wouldn't want to tweak that pretty body work! Kinda scares me. I think I'll leave it to the Dealer. Ha!

If going to a dealer for an oil change was a 40 mile drive for me, I'd do my own oil change too! I'm spoiled. My Dealer is 3 miles from my work, and I complain about that! Like RichW5 says, they do have specials that I do take advantage of. And my Service Writers have known me for 12 years so they always give me a good deal (even the Senior Citizen Discount before I was one! Ha!).

dindak · May 2003

I'm sure there will be a few 03's still around in August. If you need to, put a deposit down in July and get them to hold one for you.

wwhite2 · May 2003

there is a safe area behind those jacking points where you can use a floor jack .... .I have already pulled my 17" wheels to clean the inside alum surfaces ,if you dont the dust will eat the clear finish . I like to see a clean wheel when I look thru the wheel openings . I used 2 floors jack so I can lift the car evenly . Jerry any Cadillac stealership will use a regular floor jack to lift a CTS when necessary

cjs2002 · May 2003

well as of now... I can get an 03 auto base CTS for 30,254 thats with nothin in it.... and thats towards the maximum of my pricerange, where I won't be working just for a car... I could go higher but I don't want to have to end up working all the time for my car... anyways... I dont know.. I called my cadillac dealorship and they hadn't been released any info.. and he said that as far as he knew... for 04 the 3.2 will have both man and auto.. and the 3.6 will have only auto...but he wasn't shir about it havin the auto shift feature... he said he'd call me back.. he told me not to quote him cause he really didn't know.... but he did tell me that if worst came to worse he'd do his best to still honor that same price he gave me originally... he said that his supervising manager told him it was ok....but any info on ya'll parts would be apprriciated... thanx

wwhite2 · May 2003

CJS you probably be able to get a great deal on any leftover 03 when the dealers have 04's showing up .

bingoman · May 2003

was that a typo or a freudian slip? LOL

jemiller · May 2003

Personal opinion, not specifically CTS but I apply it to our late-model BMWs and old Chevy trucks alike, for any engine with a normal lifespan ahead of it:

- A decent fully-synthetic oil (for me right now that's Mobil 1 or Amsoil, there's other good ones too, I don't use 'synthetic blends')

- No thinner than 5W-30 no matter what the mfr spec is (some mfrs have specced 5W-20 in some models for CAFE reasons, with fingers crossed that the valvetrains get past the warranty period.) I typically use 10W-30 unless the engine is specifically built for something else - here in California with our minimal winter even straight 30-weight would work fine.

- Typically changed at approx 6000mi (typical mfr change interval is 1.5-2x that these days.)

There are exceptions:

- Limited-lifespan oil-burners get 10W-30 dinosaur juice, I see no need to feed them the good stuff.

- 3000mi oil changes are reserved for (a) engines with tiny half-quart-or-less filters or (b) engines with worn rings/bores that dump a lot of nasty combustion products into the oil.

Two cars in the house right now that came with small filters will actually accommodate a quart-size Ford filter e.g. Wix 51515. Fram filters do not get onto engines in this household.

oldsman01 · May 2003

Latest issue of Autoweek has a short write up on the 04 changes. Inside it says you'll get a color keyed console and center armrest and the background lighting for the instruments will be white rather than orange(thank you Cadillac!). And of course the 3.6 liter V6. The report said that the 3.6 will be automatic only for 04 and that the 3.2 will be offered only with the manual. 05s will offer a six speed with the larger V6. The report also said the sport mode on the 04's slushbox has been recalibrated and will let you take the engine within 300 rpm of fuel cut-off on a 1st to 2nd shift. Thats 6700 RPM so 7K must be the stopping point. Sounds like a pretty sweet engine. Other upgrades will be slight modifications to the suspension and a true dual exhaust. On sale: July. Base price: $31,000(est.). Curb weight: 3694 lbs. 0-60: 6.2 seconds(mfr.). Unless I can get a KILLER deal on an 03 CTS this summer, I think I'll be waiting for the 04 model as these upgrades make it worth the wait.

jemiller · May 2003

Oh, and no additives. Certainly none of the teflon stuff. If it's ever been advertised on television, you probably shouldn't use it.

If I had any pushrod engines with traditional (non-roller) lifters, I might look for an extreme-pressure additive such as BG MOA.

merc1 · May 2003

"Forty years of failure to educate drivers about tire pressures and we now get a
tire-pressure-indicator mandate from the government. "

I couldn't have said it any better. Brakes are next.

M

dindak · May 2003

If you've waited this long, may as well go for an 04. The 3.6L sounds like a great power plant.

tornado25 · May 2003

I am sure I have seen that figure somewhere else, but you pointing out the 6.2 0-60 time really is starting to seal the deal for me on the 04 CTS.

I was sort of waffling about waiting a couple years and looking at a good off-lease 03 Lincoln LS8. Only because the V-8 looked to be quite powerful and there has been a lot of talk about how all the changes Lincoln made to the 03 really improved the car.

Anyway, the 3.6 in the CTS makes it faster than the LS8. Ok, so saving up starts now!

calicadi · May 2003

Has anyone out there actually changed their own oil?

According to my brother-in-law, who runs one of those wash and lube joints, the oil drain plug takes a special tool only available (for now at least) from Cad dealers. Ergo he's turning away CTS customers. I haven't taken the time to check the underside yet and for now I get my changes at the dealer.

Gauges - schmauges I want voice activated menu of key engine-drivetrain-chasis sensors and activators that responds in a soothing female voice, or maybe like HAL's from 2001.

"Open the right rear door HAL"
"HAL!"
"I'm sorry Dave that would jeopardize the mission"

ctsjerry · May 2003

I just dropped by my dealership yesterday to take a look at the current crop of CTSs on the lot (I love to look at them!) The California Special Editions seem to be gone. Two of the nine CTSs on the lot & showroom were recently built editions and they both had: 1) Temp gauges instead of analog clocks 2) Black dashboards 3) White background gauges instead of orange. -Jer:>)

Cadillac CTS/CTS-V

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