Cadillac CTS/CTS-V

cjs2002 · June 2003

Hey thanks to who ever posted that review... I enjoyed reading all the changes in store for the 04 models... I too buyin a CTS in august provided that either A. the 04 with auto haven't shoot up out of my price range or B. a new 03 which I hope will still be available... someone has to have a black basic with just an auto... at least I hope thanx

calicadi · June 2003

Welcome jnorthstar! I too came from a Seville STS (a beautiful 95 in Carmine Red with a dove gray interior) and now have a WhtDmnd LuxSprt. My only regret is I couldn't keep 'em both. I share your opinion on the difference and merits of the two. For fun, use the message search and go to 1799. Bingoman has a WhtDmnd and had the front grill painted to match the body. Then consider other colors like flat black.

tvdirect - For cleaning and polishing stuff, I swear by (not at) Meguiars products. Check out their website. If they don't make it you probably don't need it. You can even call the toll free, on weekends, and get a live person who can help you understand what to use where. It really helps 'cause they really do have a lot of purpose-made products.

theBug - OK I'm sold, dual exhaust it is dyno justified or not.

Stupid Human Trick - I was detailing the window gaskets the other day (with Meguiars handy detailing applicator - a small soda straw with foam sponge tip filled with vinyl and rubber restorer). Went to do the gasket around the moon roof and got no retraction. Yikes! Finally figured it out. Last time I used it I must've closed the interior sunshade with too much gusto. Result... the sunshade jammed the glass enough to defeat the retraction motor. Moral of the story...? Think suave class and sophistication when closing sunshade, not macho posturing.

rsteph · June 2003

Interesting how dealers work depending on where you're at. Here (Portland, Ore. area) there are 3 Caddy dealers in close proximity (under 20 miles apart). They, apparently, won't trade amongst themselves. Their philosophy seems to be "why should I give a car to a competitor so you can buy from him". When I was shopping, two of them (the closest to my home) only had one CTS on the lot and neither were what we wanted. Our minimum requirements were sterling silver, auto tranny, luxury considered but no luxury sport. One dealer tried for one day then said "sorry, can't find it." The other tried for several days, but same result. The 3rd had 8-10 CTS in stock and one of them was close enough to what we wanted that we purchased there. I was a little rushed wanting to get in on the 0% financing before it went away so probably settled on a deal that I could have made better. But, in the end, we were happy and got our CTS. The downside is the dealer I ended up buying from is almost a 100 mile roundtrip from home so I'll be using one closer (40 mile roundtrip) for any service/warranty work.

thebug · June 2003

cu95: I think you're right. The later models have a different OnStar unit, because mine doesn't have that feature.

calicadi: Justified, you betcha. The pipes are calling you man. The custom shop (a local vogue) did an awesome job on the installation. I told them that I didn't want to see any hardware (as seen in all the advertisment photos) underneath, just the chrome pipes, and they complied. I just think it looks tacky, especially on a Cadi.

I could have gone straight to the custom shop to have it done, but I went through the dealer to avoid any future warranty issues. As I thought prior to doing so, the price (the middle man factor) didn't change at all.

thebug...

b4z · June 2003

How long ago was sterling silver dropped?
All of the cars on my dealers lot are light platinum.

b4z · June 2003

Meguiars are great products but I use Mother's also.
They have a 3 step process with a Cleaner Wax/Glaze/Carnuba Wax.

The cleaner wax contains a mild polish and the glaze covers up the scratches.

The glaze will make the metallics in the paint
pop right out.

It made my bronze mist intrigue look incredible and my bright blue metallic Camaro gets so shiny you can't look at it in the sunlight without sunglasses.

b4z · June 2003

This thread has been one of the Top 10 discussions for the last several days.
lets keep it up.

tyler80 · June 2003

According to the Cadillac Website the CTS exterior color Sterling Silver was no longer availabe for ordering after December 2002, and Light Platinum had become available for order after December 2002.

tornado25 · June 2003

Actually I hadn't thought of the RF modulator until after I posted and I realize what you mean. I guess I was talking more along the lines of putting a whole new deck in (which is what I did since the OEM was crap anyway).

Since you don't want to pay for a bunch of unwanted options to get XM, I was thinking you could do the same. However, you'd probably be ripping out a factory deck, that even in the base model, is 10x better than what my OEM was.

That said, Pioneer makes some pretty nice stuff and if you find the right place, they can install it so it looks right. I guess it all depends on how bad you want XM!

ctsjerry · June 2003

The bug is right when he wrote:

"In my thinking, if they were to add the most common options into the base model, the price itself would eliminate a large portion of the market segment they are seeking, and many would have never taken a second look at the product. A lot of us would said 'I can't afford that' and moved on to another model. That's how the hook works."

"When looking at the CTS, my thoughts were, don't let the $29,350 fool you into thinking you can get this for cheap. One has to know, you can have it loaded, but it won't be cheap, or you can have it cheap, but it won't be loaded."

"It would be interesting to find out how many people purchased a base model BMW, MB or Lexis. As we know, many of these options are standard on the said competitors, and you have to get whether you want them or not, and it also cost more."

I originally wanted just a base version CTS, to save costs, but after looking around and discussing the options with my BMW buddies, I decided to go for the more loaded car. I'm EXTREMELY happy I did, but 12 months ago I never would have thought that. Yes, price is one thing, but a year later you just might be kicking yourself for getting a lesser car.

I just wanted to add, what is all the upset over the CTS wood trim? My Luxury Sport has genuine Zabrano wood on the top 1/3 of the steering wheel (like Jaguars and other luxury sedans), gear shift knob (wood knobs have been around for 80+ years) and on the four small door handles (4" long). Is that just "too ugly" for you folks to stand? Are you guys seeing the Dealer trimmed versions perhaps? I agree they look a bit ugly, with all that tacked on wood trim, but remember it certainly isn't "stock".

I also posted a comment at CaddyEdge.com that perhaps you guys should look into the "wood delete" option, that may or may not exist. Six months after I bought my Carmine Red 1991 Caddy Sedan Deville I discovered that I could have ordered my car without the white pinstripe, or gray lower body color by specifying "pinstripe delete" or "lower body color delete". Something you might want to inquire about...

ctsjerry · June 2003

As a fellow who owns five vehicles, three of which are vintage show cars, you can imagine I have a large supply of car cleaners, polishing cloths and waxes. I certainly agree that any Meguire's product is a good bet. Also consider the Eagle One line. Great stuff. I also use 3M products, with good luck. One of my favorite items are the new micro-fiber polishing cloths put out by Turtle Wax. So soft, your wife will want them for herself. Be sure to use a automotive approved car wash liquid too. Forget about using dish washing soap, as that strips off your wax. For detailing I use a product called "Express Detail", that I absolutely love. It's sort of a professional product, not readily available. Meguires and Eagle One sell a similar spray on product that is also good. That new Meguire's "Wax & Dry" also works as advertized. For glass I use Invisible Glass by Stoner. Mr. Goodwrench GM Glasscleaner is my second favorite. Hope this helps someone!

tvdirec · June 2003

Thanks everyone for the tips on the best car wax products. Much appreciated. On another matter, I have an aftermarket XM receiver. It's the Sony plug and play with the cassette adaptor. It works great but my DIC shows "clean player". This is my first cassette adaptor in any vehicle and the question is do you need to clean the heads of the cassette deck. Will it affect the sound quality of the receiver if I don't?

cdnpinhead · June 2003

carefully.

Much changes over time. I own a Lincoln LS and follow this board for obvious reasons, and recall when the LS board was not only in the top ten, but at the head of it. Now the LS board is doing well to average 2 posts a day.

It'll be interesting to see where the CTS board is in another two years. I'm guessing it'll be in far better shape than the LS board is now, but I'd never speculate as to why.

nvbanker · June 2003

It's mostly about what's new. The Mazda 6 has been there since before it came out, pretty consistently. Nobody was more surprised than I was to see the LS develop the cult following it has. Maybe the CTS will find a home in the same niche.

b4z · June 2003

This board was banging along 2 years ago, before the CTS came out. Lots of posts and comments about the CTS's looks. When the CTS came out there were even more posts but I think it was a good 2-3 months before somebody actually bought one.
It got pretty heated and pat shut us down several times last Summer.
It is good that there is more activity now. I think all of us are excited about the New V6.
Sales will probably go up or at least maintain their pace.
The Impala thread used to be huge, but has died to a couple of posts a day.
Even the intrigue thread does more, and that car hasn't been produced in over a year.
I also think there are fewer posts in Townhall than when I joined 3 years ago.

wwhite2 · June 2003

Driving a CTS does put a smile on your face .

mcgreenx · June 2003

I noted the discussion earlier about XM radio. I installed a Delphi SkyFi in my CTS, using the ashtray insert. You can see it here (assuming the link works):

http://www.xmfan.com/viewtopic.php?t=3372&highlight=

I am really enjoying XM and there is now a $30 rebate on the SkyFi and some other receivers. But I think the SkyFi is great.

wwhite2 · June 2003

man you have a lot of "bolt ons " looks kinda cluttered IMHO

oldsman01 · June 2003

The Mazda 6 thread is ridiculous. Last few times I've been there many of the posts are banter between the "Honda rules" crowd and more open minded buyers who are considering(or have purchased) the 6. The 6 is pretty much last on my very short "next new car" list as the (you guessed it) CTS is in first place. The CTS had been tied with the Saab 9-3, but more HP coming next year and some small problems starting to show up over in the Saab thread, the CTS has bumped it.

j1205 · June 2003

I have 1800 miles on my CTS and I love it. I have two ideas I'd like to post.

One, I'm taking my CTS back to the dealership tomorrow for their second crack at fixing a high pitched background squeal in the radio (not the Bose system). The first time, they had it two days and had me in an Enterprise Toyota Corolla for those 2 days because whoever took my appointment didn't follow through on the loaner.

They said they had replaced the original radio with a new one but that didn't fix it. They said GM helped them troubleshoot it over the phone and they had discovered and tightened a loose ground wire in the trunk area. When I picked up the car on the Friday it was ready I wasn't out of the lot before I noticed the same stupid squeal on a station. I wheeled back into the service area and got the advisor to listen and he said my advisor was already gone and I should call him back on Monday.

The squeal is not as bad as it was before the service, but it is definitely still bad- on some stations worse than others. Even when it is not squealing, I don't think the radio sounds good. Has anyone heard of anything like this? Does anyone else with the base model radio think its quality is not what it should be? My 2001 Chrysler Mini-van has better sound in my opinion.

The squeal occurs on many FM stations, some worse than others, but no AM stations. It occurs whether the engine is running or not. The squeal does not vary with RPM. Its volume increases when you turn up the radio volume. I thought it might be interference with the Onstar system but I haven't made a correlation.

My second thought is about Octane. My first tank was whatever the car came with. It ran great. My first fill was with 93. Again great. I tried 89 on the next tank. I didn't notice any difference in performance and no knocking. After reading some threads here I tried 87. Again no knocking but although it might be my imagination, it did not seem as peppy. Today it was time for another tank and since prices are back down, I decided to go for 93 again and I decided to track the mileage very carefully. After the fill-up, to my surprise, the car was idling rough as I sat in the gas station writing down the details of the fill up for tracking purposes. The gas was Amoco Ultimate. It calmed down once I got down the road. I'll share what I find out about the mileage.

I'm interested in others' thoughts on the radio and the gas. I know there have been lots of posts on Octane but I haven't been able to reach any conclusions from the posts.

automole · June 2003

First off, I'll have to disagree with JNorthstar's observation that the CTS's leather was "top notch". Any leather seat that stretches to leave a permanent butt imprint after being driven by a 160lb driver has some room for improvement. Cadillac needs to use a heavier grade of leather or add some stitching for reinforcement IMO.

As for waxes I've tried almost everything (McGuires, Zaino, Turtle Wax, Eagle One, etc>) and in my opinion Mother's is by far the best at adding a protective shine. I think Zaino actually looks nicer when clean but just doesn't leave a protective coating that lasts for several washes like the Mother's does.

When it comes to gas, I've been putting regular in my CTS. As far as I can tell Super or Premium doesn't add any noticable difference in HP or idle quality.

In addition, I'll stand by my opinion that GM should have added to the list of standard features when it built the CTS. BMW, Mercedes and Lexus are more expensive because they are "more expensive" not because of the list of standard features. You could just as easily list several less expensive cars like Chrysler, Honda, and Hyundai that have standard features that the CTS is lacking.

Lastly, when it comes to 'dealer trades' in Portland, OR I've had terrible luck negotiating on ANY car that isn't on the lot that I'm dealing with. When I went to Kuni they didn't have the car I wanted, couldn't locate a car, and weren't willing to deal on a factory order. I went straight from Kuni to VicAlfonso and closed the deal on a new CTS (which was on the lot) in 2 hours.

b4z · June 2003

That cell phone placement would never work with my long legs.LOL.

b4z · June 2003

Do my eyes deceive me? Is this thing for real?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item- =2418110402&category=43903

jemiller · June 2003

There's three different factors here:

a) What it costs to build the basic vehicle.
b) What added 'features' cost.
c) And what you can sell it for.

BMWs and the like have a very high basic platform cost. There's a lot of content in the stuff you don't see - the structure, engine, suspension, etc. Now, in the rest of the world, you get a BMW 520i with a manual transmission, cloth upholstery, all-manual seat adjusters, etc. (I don't think you get hand-crank windows anymore, but it wasn't very long ago...) and it'll still cruise 115mph all day long and has the same basic structure and durability as any other 5-series.

In the US, of course, the cheapest 5-series you can get is a 525i that's still very highly specced relative to what's standard elsewhere. And BMW's margins have been fairly fat, though currency issues are going to pinch that now.

Something like a Hyundai or Impala, the car itself is basically a throwaway. The structure and mechanical content is cheap, and it'll never work as well a 520i. But, sure, you get the power this and leather that for the same money.

Americans buy a lot of junk, but they seem to have an absolute fetish for leather upholstery.

The CTS has a pretty high basic content for all the mechanicals, though the finish, trim and upholstery on the car is fairly low-cost. $30K is still a very aggressive price point to try to hit with the CTS, it's a matter of figuring out what to leave out to get there.

cu95 · June 2003

Tornado, I don't think replacing the OEM radio is a viable option --the problem is I believe the CTS radio is all part of one big unit that includes the DIC display and programmable features controls. Someone had up on eBay a CTS radio salvaged from a wreck and it basically looked like a large metal fully enclosed box with a few jacks in th back for wire connections.

j1205, I'm sorry to hear about your sound isssues. I too have the base model. In my limited experience with the fm radio (I mostly listen to cds), I haven't noticed any squeal problem. I actually think the sound quality from the base radio is pretty respectable --no worse than the sound from the supposedly premium Infinity Gold system in our Grand Cherokee. The only problem I've had was a vibration from the rear deck woofer which I was able to track down and easily remedy (I think I posted about it earlier).

tornado25 · June 2003

Yeah, I sorta figured that it might be a problem because of the components used (i.e., you'll have monstrous hole in the dash).

Mind you, I don't think if I owned a CTS, I would be ripping the stock system out, but if really, really, really want XM...

oldsman01 · June 2003

What a waste of a perfectly good CTS. Not that I wouldn't mind seeing a coupe version of the CTS(and a ragtop of it) but something about this conversion just doesn't look right. Oh and the extra $17K is alot of money to pay to have the top of a CTS sawed off.

thebug · June 2003

This convertible was featured on an ESPN auto show which aired some four weeks ago. I missed the episode, but a few friends called to ask if I had seen this car at the Cadillac dealership. Of course this is just a concept car (I think), and they are probably not going to produce it as part of the CTS line.

I read somewhere, that this was an attempt to test its appeal on the public. My question is, is that a roll bar of some type going across the center?
It's hard to tell from the angles provided. At any rate, I think a coupe would be much nicer.

thebug...

rsteph · June 2003

Apparently your buying experience was nearly opposite from mine. I started with Bill Copps in Vancouver on the CostCo auto purchase program. They only had a "used" dealer demo fully loaded white one on the lot that they wanted to sell to me (8k miles on it). Seems like they wanted $35+ for it and I wouldn't be able to get in on the 0% financing since it was now classified as a used one. I went to Vic Alfonso and they only had one copper CTS in the showroom. Wasn't what I wanted and he wasn't able to find what I did want. Kuni ended up having, like I said, 8-10 of them on the lot and we bought from them. A silver lux model with Bose system, auto trans, sunroof and bright finish wheels (the latter two I could have done without...but oh well).

thebug · June 2003

Your post on options sent me back to my mistake on the available options when ordering my CTS. When calculating my options, I added the lux and lux sport package into the total cost (duh), then eliminated the lux sport because the cost was too high.

If I had read more carefully, I would have noticed that the lux sport has everything that the lux package has (duh again), and I should have dropped the lux package instead. By the time I realized this , the car was already in production, and the order couldn't be changed.

This would have only raised my monthly payment by $18.00. Today I'm kicking myself in the rear because now I have to shop around for larger wheels (nice ones are really hard to find) which I wanted in the first place. And to boot, I will have to discard a perfectly good set of wheels at the cost of $795, (duh one more time).

thebug...

thebug · June 2003

I'm not sure if they still do it, but when I lived in Europe, they had Euro-spec and American-spec cars. Those not targeted for shipment to the U.S. were produced without all the safety features required by law in the U.S., and therfore cost much, much less.

You would think, that because they had no speed limit, they would require the safety features more so than we would, but that's not the case. They didn't have Ralph, or Ralph likes, so they didn't have to deal with it. It would be interesting to see if they've changed.

Many GI's would buy them (for use in Germany only) and sell before they returned stateside. The market for Euro-spec autos between GI's was pretty big when I was there.

Having an American-spec car would increase the price anywhere from 10-12K, not including the VAT (@14% in the early 90's) or value added tax. The good thing is, GI's could weave the VAT, and the cost of shipping was usaually covered by the dealer. If not, the average cost of shipping was $750 to any U.S. port.

thebug...

necros · June 2003

The issue with the DIC is not the only thorny issue with replacing the stereo. If you want to be bored to tears, ask me about my conversations with Cadillac engineers about replacing the radio.

Bottom line: No way, no how unless you want to put your DIC in the trunk.

fjk57702 · June 2003

that probably explains how they expect to charge a bundle for the lux package and require you to buy it to get the other options.

cjs2002 · June 2003

I went to my local dealor today and was informed of some very sadining news.... he had sold out of 03 CTS and was only getting 4 more in tommorrow, from there on out there shipmints would online come as 04 models, the first of which will be the base 3.6, he also elluded to the point that they could no longer order CTS with heated seats... he said that this normally means to the dealors that the manurfacture has made it standard... He said he'd call when the new ones come in or at least call with the pricing... he'd let me know... BTW I drove a MB 230 4door sedan today... it was ok but I went next door and drove a G35 and a CTS and preferred both of those cars over the MB, plus they came with everything I'd already wanted for about 2800 bucks less... well at least I hope... I'll keep you posted as to what happens with my car situation

jemiller · June 2003

Yes, US-spec BMWs (and Mercedes, and etc.) are very different from those sold in the rest of the world. The US-mandated equipment is different, but not necessarily better.

For instance, US airbags were more powerful than Euro-spec airbags and dash contours were sometimes changed because US DOT required that the airbag restrain an UNBELTED occupant. On the other hand, less-powerful Euro airbags designed only to assist in restraining a BELTED occupant wouldn't kill or maim shorter drivers or kids, as US bags have. I think everyone's gone to a depowered or two-stage bag design in the US to work around this little bit of nastiness.

The US has other specific equipment and labeling rules, once again not necessarily better (US headlight requirements were for years so bad that US-legal headlights were illegal in much of the world) but different (some markets require side-marker lights, some don't, some require specific colors, some don't.)

All this affects exported US vehicles as well - if GM wants to sell a CTS or any other car in Europe a lot of things have to change (interesting to note on all the CTS-V pics the little wedge of headlight reserved, one guesses, for the headlight wiper that's required by law in some countries, particularly Scandinavian.)

Canada's addicted to their daytime running lights, and GM seems to be going along for the ride on that fetish, but DRLs are illegal in Germany and other places. Some cars get different wiring, some cars get a different headlight switch, some cars you just add a relay to enable them (or pull a relay to disable them), some cars (e.g. recent BMWs) it's software-configuration controlled. I can just hope, if I should buy a CTS-V at some point, that there's some way to get rid of them.

fav002 · June 2003

While that custom 4-door CTS convertible just doesn't do anything for me, what do you guys think of a CTS coupe?!

Now if only GM would build it...or how about a V-series CTS in this body style?!

rayainsw · June 2003

. . . are included in RPO: PDL = Luxury Package.
- Ray
Hoping for better acceleration on the 3.6 / automatic than published so far . . .

bingoman · June 2003

Why would you want to eleiminate the DRL's on your car since you cannot even see them when you are driving, and they just might keep someone else from running into you while passing on a two lane road???

wwhite2 · June 2003

sometimes change can be difficult to accept? DRLs probably do help . BUT then again so would 5 point harnesses and helmets

batmanscts · June 2003

Great work on the photo! What a look! If they were available, I'd take two... a Sable Black for me and a Garnet Red for my wife. We'd probably fight over who gets to drive which. Thanks for sharing a brilliant concept.

Anyone at GM awake?? I know... probably not a large enough market for the coupes, but wouldn't it be great to have one of them?

bingoman · June 2003

I understand that some car manufacturers are working on 4 point harnesses. The helmet is up to you. If they made helmets mandatory some would complain that it blocks their peripheral vision, hurts their neck muscles or there isn't enough headroom. Actually the head curtains are an attempt to give you the same protection as a helmet.

thebug · June 2003

Heck if helmets were made mandatory, we wouldn't be able to use the cell phone while driving, and that would really suck.

thebug...

thebug · June 2003

You're thinking about buying a CTS-V. Nooo, not you.

thebug...

dindak · June 2003

http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=02310560

tornado25 · June 2003

rayainsw,

What have you seen for 0-60 numbers for the 3.6L?

jemiller · June 2003

I'd consider it. Don't much like the shape, but an LS6 covers a multitude of sins.

jpnmass · June 2003

I have seen two different numbers published and they were quite a bit apart. One was 6.2 and the other estimated a range of 6.8-7.1.

Hard to believe the number would be over 7. My ancient 3.8L pushrod was rated at 7.7-7.8 in my Intrigue. 60 more HP should do more than a half second, but I'm not no expert in that area.

rob35cts · June 2003

I took my cts in to fix the clock. The guy quickly realized that he couldn't do any thing with it so he called cadillac. they told him to replace the instrament cluster. I am really worried about rattles. What does everyone think. I am actually thinking about leaving it alone.

b4z · June 2003

I would think that info would be available very soon since production started today.

Also very curious to see how they will handle the pricing on the 3.6L since the auto is mandatory.

rayainsw · June 2003

thecarconnection 'guessed' 0-60 for the 3.6 / auto. as '6.8 to 7.1'.
None of the major car magazines has published test numbers AFAIK.
- Ray
Hoping for something closer to 6.5 - and an under 15 sec. quarter mile . . .

Cadillac CTS/CTS-V

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