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Mercedes 380--450--560 SLs
epeghin
Member Posts: 1
I am interested in purchasing one of these models
and am looking for advice on which models and years
are best in terms of reliability, performance and
value.
Thanks,
Edward
and am looking for advice on which models and years
are best in terms of reliability, performance and
value.
Thanks,
Edward
0
Comments
All these older V-8 SLs are in great danger of extinction once the engines fail on them, since the rebuilt engine will cost more than the car is worth....not a good situation for survivability.
What do you call this part, and where can I find one????? Thanks for the help.
I'll also check on the maintenance board and see if I can find info there, but thought this would be the place to start.
You might try this site for the part:
www.budsbenz.com
or
www.germany-direct.com
Host
Let me know if you srrike out and we'll try to look for others sources for you.
thanks again for all the help.
Host
My Mercedes-Benz Enthusiasts Site
If anyone is interested please check out my site. Thank You for your patience.
I hope you enjoy this.
83 500 SL with 65k miles, for $10K
89 560 SL with 120k miles for $20K
which one should I go with? $ to performance ration.
Also are the parts for the 500 SL readily available like the 560SL? just wondering if foreign auto part stores or Mercedes dealer stock parts for the 500 SL which is European?
thanks,
Shon
Also, the 65K miles for the 500SL sounds highly unlikely...that's 3,800 miles a year.
The 560s in my area run between $17k - $24k. We're talking $8k-$10k difference between the 560SL with much more miles and the 500SL with low mileage. But if I have to wait for parts to arrive from Germany then it's not worth it. One other thing that I really like about the 500SL is the European slick head lights. Please let me know if the parts are available for the 500SL? and if there's that much different between 5.0 and 5.6 engine. by the way the 380 is out. that's one slow, sluggish car. after driving the 500 and 560 the 380 is no good.
Aside from all that, I regard low mileage as a liability, not an asset on these cars. Lack of use kills a Mercedes, so if you are expecting the low miles to work to your advantage in terms of reliability, this has not proven to be true in most cases.
And the issue of European origin is a serious one. Some insurance companies will not insure a gray market car, and some mechanics will refuse to work on one. Given all the fly-by-night companies who converted these gray market cars in the 1980s, who can say what snags you'll run into with parts, emission testing and safety issues.
My opinion is that over time the 560SL will turn out to be the better buy...none of these SLs are destined to be collectible, so they won't increase in value, but the Euro cars will depreciate faster and always hold less value compared to the 560SL models.
My question relates to the engine and oil pressure. When idling the gauge registers 18 lb, otherwise 45 lb. The mechanic I had look at the car says that a range that wide means that the car was not well maintained and that there are cam problems. He says the engine wear is equivalent to 180,000 mi and that a $3,000 to $8,000 major overhaul will be needed within 20,000 mi. She says that she had the oil changed every 3,000 or twice per year but she does not have service records. She is a client of a close friend and I do not think the car was neglected.
I can buy the car for $3,000 so my main exposure is the engine overhaul. Any ideas on the reasonableness or liklihood of the mechanics diagnosis? What are the chances that the oil pressure gauge is bad? Thanks for any response.
The only other alternative is to buy it as cheaply as you can, and don't put a single penny in it...O wouldn't even change the oil--drive it til it drops and walk away...you'd probably get $500-750 from a wrecker, so if you bought it for $2,000 and got 6 months or a year of fun out of it, that would be okay I think. As an investment, you'll be an old man before you get your money back...trust me on this one.
so as far oil pressure, that's a new one for me. $3000 sounds like a bargain, and I haven't even seen the car. You can sell the parts and make $10,000 easy.
by the way this is the 4th 560 (3 SLs & 1 SEC) that I've looked at and so far 2 have looked pretty oily underneat. as I mentioned I've had many 450SELs and 300SDs and you basically gas and drive....... most with close to 200k on them.
let me know your thought on the above few posts.
thanks
The problem with oil leaks is that you have to determine exactly what the cause is...valve covers? No problem. Head gaskets or main seal...oops! Big problem. A technician who has the right tool can add dye to the engine oil, and then hit the oil leak with a special light and see exactly what the source is.
As usual, the weak point on 1980 on up Benzes is the climate control system/a.c. system. Play with all the setting, knobs and valves and make sure everything works perfectly. They are expensive to fix and the A/C isn't terribly effective in really hot climates no matter what you do. But mediocre climate control is a small price to pay for this great-performing car.
looks and runs excellent. It's amazing that it has more power than a 380SEL which has a v8.
Maintenance #1295 (General Mercedes Questions)
thanks,
Shon
shifty
Thanks
I'd say if the car checks out perfectly and looks terrific, that $10K would be all the money in the world. And take it for a long test drive...it's a pleasant, solid car, but a sportscar it ain't!
It's hard to predict how a car will eventually turn out in the collector market. Probably, like most luxury cars currently in high demand, the price will stay high for one or two years until the supply increases or the next nifty model comes out, then the price will drop just like any used car, eventually bottom out in 10-15 years, and then, if there's collector car interest, it will start to rise again. Look how long it has taken the old pagoda roof 280SL to finally start rising in value...even now, the car I paid $11,000 for in 1971 can be had in very nice shape for about double that $22,500...not a screaming investment by any means, but better than the poor soul who bought most other 1971 luxury cars. And some restored 280SLs have broken $30,000.
So I'd say there is no immediate prospect for appreciation in value for the 500SL, no. Best thing, if you don't have money to burn, would be to buy a 2 or 3 year old one with low miles and let someone else take the big depreciation hit.
There's some delayed gratification in that plan, but if it suits you, try that.
ANYWAY, that being said, the priciest of the older style V8 SLs is the 560SL (upwards of $20,000) but it is easily the best of the pre 1990 SLs. The 560 is better in every way than its earlier predecessors. While it is just as ponderous to drive, (for a two seater) it is NOT a slow car like the earlier ones, and mechanically much better, too.
You've got to be very careful with the earlier SLs...the engine, for instance, is worth more than the car, so if the engine fails, you can throw the car away, literally. It's an easy $10K for a rebuild.
On an allied point, the 560 sedans and coupes seem a relative value for their selling prices-- Mr_Shiftright, any opinion as to model years (are the earlier '86s and 87s to be avoided?) and mileages (stay under 100M?) to consider--realizing that the later the model and the lower the mileage the better, but also the higher price. Where in your opinion does the price/value curve yield the best deal?
As for the 500 series sedans and coupes, they don't really have much collector value either, but now that they've depreciated, it's a nice ride for not a lot of money. That being said, they aren't immortal, and even a Mercedes with 150K on it is a tired car, whether it looks like it or not. I'm always amused when someone says "it's got 150K on it and the mechanic says the engine is like new"...well, then, when DOES the wear start, or will it run for one million miles :(why not, it never wears out, right?).
My point is that these old 500 series cost a helluva lot of money to repair, so you have to balance the selling price, mileage and the odds of having future trouble. To me , a car with say 200K on it is nearly worthless. You should never be paying good money for a car like that. Sure, 100K is a reasonable upper limit for an older Benz. There's bound to be life left in the car at that mileage. At 125K I'd bargain hard, at 150K I'd probably pass unless it were so cheap I could part if out for the selling price.
What you want (what we ALL want) is that clean, reasonably low miles car that has not been messed up by inept paint, bodywork or poor maintenance. There is no such thing as a Mercedes "fixer-upper". They are all "fixer-downers".
As you know, I love heavy, powerful, V-8, rear wheel drive cars but I need something smaller. Is an 87 560 SL w/ 96,976 miles on it asking $16,200 a bad bet? The car is a private party sale w/ out of state plates, originally from Texas. Clean, rust and dent free body with a new soft top. I drove the car and it seemed crisp and responsive with good firm straight holding brakes.
I'd certainly take the car to a MCB specialist mechanic to get it fully checked out but am I making a big mistake? I smelled oil burning after I stopped and parked the car and noted that the water pump hadn't yet been replaced.
I have a close neighbor who bought an 88 560 SL w/ 84K miles on it about a year ago and she's put nearly $4,000 dollars into repair bills on that car since. I got copies of the bills and the list just went on and on. She's got 96K miles on her car now and its a beautiful looking car but man that's gotta hurt. She paid $21,500 for the 88 560 SL at a dealer.
She had a 450 SL w/ 54K miles on it that was stolen so this was the car that she bought to replace it. I feel she got screwed on the 560 SL's purchase price but she actually took it to an independent mechanic beforehand to get the car checked out and he told her it was O.K. then later told her how much it'd cost to fix it when she found oil leaking on her garage floor. Needless to say she took it to a different mechanic to get it repaired.
I know your passion for Miata's, is that really a much better choice? They just seem so small and squirty though. I've not driven one yet but I know they're substantially cheaper. Would I be happier in a Miata, or would it feel buzzy and an cheap on the long road trips down HWY 1 to Monterey. My wife always hated driving my Lincolns because they were just too big but I don't know about an auto on a 4 cyl. Miata. She doesn't drive stick!
Talk to me. I like the MCB but is it just a big waiste of money. Is a $16,200 560 SL going to drop to $2,000 in five more years or have they basically hit bottom? Where's a $7,000 Miata going to go? Tough questions but I feel you're the most likely person I know who could really compare. How about an Alpha Spyder?
Why don't you drop by and see me and we'll go drive a couple of cars. I have a buddy who has a great used car lot and often has these fancy cars..also you can try my Alfa Spyder and see if you like it....it's a swell, cheap car but not a high speed cruiser...more for top down twisty driving on coast roads under 75 mph.
To answer your question, well it's really impossible to know what a used car is going to do. Oil smell means oil leak, so there's something you're gonna have to deal with. The 560SL is a good car, but it is a complicated car, too. So any work you do will cost some money, no way around it. The price seems okay, pretty fair if it's really nice.
That oil leak can be traced by adding a dye to the oil and flashing a special "blue light" on it. The source of the leak will show up clear as day. If it's a head gasket or rear main leak, that's bad. If just valve covers, only a couple of hundred bucks.
I like Miatas, but they are very small (much smaller inside than an Alfa) and it is claustrophobic on long trips. Still, it's a tighter quieter car than the Alfa, but not as much fun IMHO.
Have you ever driven one of the older Infiniti Q45s. Awesome car for not a lot of money...not terribly pretty ( a bit dull rather than ugly) but a honkin' 280 HP OHV V-8 and great amenities inside. All for under $10K.
Shiftright your Host
I saw a very interesting Alpha V-8 Coupe on the internet last night, it was orginaly from Canada but now residing in Florida. E-bay sale going on @ around $6,500 but it was a total rust bucket. I'd never seen that kind of Alpha before.
I know well of your Q45 reference. I have a friend in Japan who has owned three of these cars in a row. Very nice automobile, but when they first came out with that totally Japanese style add campaign in the States of Shinto views of Rocks, trees, and babbling brooks I had to laugh. I'll look into your idea.
Thanks for the input on the Miata. As you've probably guessed by now practicality has never been my strong suit. At least maybe not to a Miata kind of a degree. I think what I'm looking for most is something new and definitely different but not way out there in the automobile spectrum.
I'd love to take you up on the test drive idea. I hope a ton of folks don't read this though because you'll have God and everyone asking to do it with you after this.
Thanks again!
Frederick
danger98@earthlink.net
No, the run of the mill Alfa is not complicated by any means. It's a tried and true design spanning 30 years or more. It's pretty bulletproof, at least the Spyder 2000. The other sedans and some of their vintage offering have certain problems that need understanding (I also have a 164LS sedan which is a sweet, fast car but a bit quirky for the average Joe).
shifty
http://www.woodtrim.com/catalog_woodtrim.cfm
My question is this. Does anyone know how closely a kit for a 450SL would fit the 380SL? This kit has 33 pieces to it! The shadow print looks pretty close to me, but the distributer claimed he had no information on this and would not guarantee a fit (ie, buy it at your own risk). I might have to ask my mechanic to call me the next time he has a 450SL in the shop so I can go look, but I thought someone here might know.
On another note, although I mostly agree with Mr Shiftright about value, you've got to factor in the intangibles. My wife had the opportunity to get this car for essentially free, and it had a strong engine, but was neglected cosmetically. I tried to talk her into something else....well ... anything else. I took her to see the SLK, the Z3, etc. But she had her heart set on the SL. After new shocks, struts, radiator, ignition, soft top, carpet set, rebuilt seats, leather, trim, and more too numerous to list, I've got about $13K into it. But I also have one very happy wife, who get's constant comments on her car, which brings a smile to her at least once a week. I've put 7 coats of Zaino on it now and it looks like new. One thing I have found to be true in life is that when your spouse is happy, chances are good that you are happy too. I figure she could have ended up with the Z3, and at the end of 5 years, I'll be about even .... depreciation vs repairs, and she got what she wanted.
Man, ain't that the truth!
WRT your wood dash problem, I was wondering if the company would send you by mail or email, a full size paper pattern that you could cut and check the fit. If it fit, they could start listing the kit as applicable to the 380 and increase their market. Worth a shot.
In any event, I'm glad it's working out. I have no idea about your wood question, but knowing German automakers, I'd be willing to bet there have been changes to the wood trim here and there. They never let anything alone.
33 pieces of wood? No wonder the rain forests are disappearing (just kidding!).
Christmas is coming soon. It's going to be wood or wheels.