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Cadillac CTS/CTS-V

18182848687129

Comments

  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Are $1200 per vehicle vs. Japan's $200 per vehicle.
  • mcgreenxmcgreenx Member Posts: 179
    They probably read my complaint here eight or ten months ago, about the placement of the CC buttons on the steering wheel, and decided to change it. I like such controls at my fingertips so I can activate them without moving my hands from the driving position. The CC control at the bottom of the wheel is very inconvenient for me (although someone responded that they like it there), and I am bothered at night by the "on" light. It won't help me with my 2003 CTS, but I am happy to hear they returned to the stalk control.

    I happen to like the wheel volume control, but I heard they changed that, too. Win some, lose some. I hope they make the overhead light switch/dimmer an easier-to-adjust rotating knob and move it to the driver's fingertip area. I suppose they put it where it is so the passenger can adjust it, but like the CC control, I find it inconvenient. Little nitpicks, I know, but why not get perfection? On that subject, for a real little, but nice touch, I like the placement of the door trunk opener button. Someone gave it some thought. And I love the GM door locking function that permits the driver to press the lock button, hear three chimes, then lock his/her door and not have to wait for the passengers to close their doors. Five seconds after the last door closes, the doors lock. I had it two cars ago and missed it in my last (non-GM) car. Little touches can mean a lot in everyday use, IMHO.
  • jemillerjemiller Member Posts: 183
    Funny how this was never an issue when the markets were booming. It's as much a function of investment losses as of anything else. In some industrialized nations pensions are a government program funded out of taxes, not paid by the employer - it's very difficult to calculate a direct correlation.

    Detroit's labor costs are a function of unionization and collective bargaining. It has only indirectly to do with efficiency of production (though Detroit has some work to do on flexibility of plant tooling, quality of supplier relationships, etc. too.)

    The ultimate solution to the labor-cost problem, if you buy into free trade, is to follow the prevailing trend in US manufacturing and move production to some place where unions, pensions, disability insurance and other such impediments to the greater glory of capitalism are minimal or nonexistent. Please note that China is expected to be the third-largest auto market by the end of this year (overtaking Germany) and you can see why all the manufacturers are scrambling like ants to get in there. China artificially suppresses their currency (not just to suck heavy industry investment out of the West, but to protect their own steel and textile industries from foreign competition), does not permit more than a token level of imports (so much for 'free trade'), and does not permit foreign control of 'joint venture' companies, so in the end everything Volkswagen, GM, etc. do ends up controlled by the nephews of local government officials, but that's another story...

    Virtually all of the big-selling 'Japanese' cars sold in the US are made in the US or Canada. The Japanese moved production to the US because it was (and is) cheaper than producing at home - Japan's costs are much closer to US costs than to, say, China costs. At the time, ten to fifteen years ago, there was also huge political pressure to reduce imports. Japanese plants in the US, though, are typically located in lower-cost areas, are non-union and the manufacturers were given all manner of tax incentives by the states they located in.

    Since these are US operations, they are accruing pension liability, but as yet the 'tail' is very small compared to GM and other US manufacturers.

    And this being way off topic for a CTS board, it'll be my only post on the topic.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    You folks might be interested in this discussion: Big Three in Chapter 11 Soon?
  • sonjaabsonjaab Member Posts: 1,057
    Will love that thread ! The domestic naysayers are haveing a field day over there!..........

    Johnny CSK......Yea some dealers are a PIA about that gm in the driveway coupon and/or any GM/employee/family--supplier deals......
    Take a ride to PA or NJ instead! Use GM buypower to find your CTS and take a ride there.

    I have given away 6 or so of those "coupons" and most folks have had no problem using them. Except on a Saab. Still waiting for more!
  • loyaltogm1loyaltogm1 Member Posts: 15
    Can anyone give me an estimate for an 04 with luxury package and sun roof, employee price. Father is a retired employee. Thinking about trading in my 03 for an 04. Thanks!
  • batmansctsbatmanscts Member Posts: 63
    If you really figure out out to buy a new GM vehicle through the GM Employee/Family program and trade-in a vehicle as part of the deal, please let all of us know. I've purchased a couple of new vehicles (including my 03 CTS) under that program and other members of my family have purchased several new GM cars with the program. All of us have been required to purchase the new GM vehicles without a trade-in no matter who the dealer was.
  • sonjaabsonjaab Member Posts: 1,057
    WOW.. Some of the dealers near you Bat man must be real knuckleheads. I get the GM employee/family deal. Trade? NO prob. geo....Heres the keys to the new Caddy, chevy, etc. Take it for a ride while we appraise your trade ! NEVER had a problem trading in a car on a GM family deal ! Didn't happen to any of my family members either. Note: Most of my older family members were clean deals as their 7-10 yo GM went to the kids.

    LOYAL TO GM:
    Just go to http://www.gmfamilyfirst.com
    Log in with your sponsors SS#....BAM ! Your in!
    A special version of GM Buypower pops up, then put in your zip code and it shows all the dealers in your area. Pick out your car....
     GM deal price right there.......NO Muss or fuss.
    If you don't have it handy e-mail me the car vin#, dealer and zip code. I can tell ya!

    Now some dealers will try to lowball your trade. Me.. I find 3 of the same vehicles. Like my 02 Deville. Go to 3 caddy dealers. Tell them straight up ! Whichever gives the best trade $$
    I buy there ! Trade price varied from 12k to 16.5k.....Guess where I bought ?.......geo
  • redgtconvredgtconv Member Posts: 46
    I recently ordered a silver base cts with sports package and ebony interior. The black interior is nice but as a base car it comes with absolutely no contrasting accents on the interior, even with the sports package. Does anyone know where I can get nice and tasteful aluminum, or chrome accents for the car? I've seen the ones on Ebay, but those have so many pieces that I don't want and none of the ones I really want. The ones I really want are the door handles and around the shifter gate, maybe something on the steering wheel. If you've seen pictures of the CTS-V interior, that's pretty much what I want.
    If anyone from Cadillac is reading this, I really think that most people ordering the sports package would be willing to pay a little extra to have some type of interior accents included.
  • redgtconvredgtconv Member Posts: 46
    The above link takes you to the 2003 interior, but if you look to the left you can click on the picture that shows the metal trim in the CTS-V.
  • automoleautomole Member Posts: 154
    I wish I could say it more eloquently...but...the leather sucks.

    Actually the leather that is NOT perforated is fine, but the perforated leather on the seating surface stretches like crazy. I'm 160 lbs with a 32" waist; I don't think I should have a permanent butt print in my front seat.

    The thing that really killed me was when I left a couple of CDs in the case on the passenger seat and when I picked them up 2 days later I had a straight line imprinted in the leather from the edge of the case...those CDs are really heavy you know (sarcasm/pun intended)!

    The line in the passenger seat has pretty much disappeared (after a few weeks of driving with the occasional passenger) but the drivers seat butt print is still there.

    I've had 3 cars with leather. Counting all my family members cars I've probably ridden in at least 7 or 8 more and seen the way they wear over a period of several years. NONE of them (even after 5-10 years of daily driving) have the butt print stretching that my CTS has after 12k miles...and it started to be noticeable around 2k miles!

    FWIW I wouldn't let it scare you away from the car...the benefits of owning the CTS far outweigh it's few flaws. The seat leather WILL stretch to a point and then it doesn't get *much* worse after that.

    I think it's a quality issue from the leather not being pre-stretched before cutting and assembling the seats combined with the fact that the seats could use just little bit more firmer padding in the butt region.
  • wwhite2wwhite2 Member Posts: 535
    Automole ,I tend to agree with your critique of the qualities of the leather seating services .The leather seems fragile. Are those CD's "HEAVY metal" music?....LOL
    Still love my CTS.
    MannyTranny, Still waiting for the replacement transmission to arrive at the dealers. Have an appoitment set for the 18th
  • loyaltogm1loyaltogm1 Member Posts: 15
    Thanks sonjaab for the info on how to find employee price on 04's.

     Concerning a trade on employee purchase, I have traded and bought 7 vehicles with my local Chev./Cad. dealer in the past 8 years and have never had a problem. They have been very helpful, maybe because I have dealt with the same saleman each time. Just found out he moved last week, so I hope they will still be as workable!! If not, I will be shopping around with the other 2 dealers in my area.
  • redgtconvredgtconv Member Posts: 46
    This issue is one of a handfull of "smaller issues" that have me a little concerned, but at this point not enough to cancel my order. Have you or anyone else here reported this problem to the dealer or to Cadillac and what was their reponse?
  • sonjaabsonjaab Member Posts: 1,057
    Jenny...Heres the scoop..MSRP$37,065
    GM employee/retiree/family deal $32,778.
    Diamond white, 3.6, auto, 1sb, lux pk.
    Right car huh?
    Remember there is a 5.9% int. deal up to 60 mths.
    And a $750-$1000 GM loyalty bonus to boot !
    Also WE pay NO adv. or DOC fee charges either.
    Enjoy!.....................geo
  • sonjaabsonjaab Member Posts: 1,057
    My last 3 Caddies 90-96-02 had a tag from OTTAWA (spl. from memory) leather co. It was attached to the headrests. It looked like a big leaf.
    It had instructions on care etc. of the leather in your new Cadillac.

    Did any of you folks find this tag/brochure in your new CTS? I wonder if GM changed suppliers for 03 or CTS only. .....geo
  • redgtconvredgtconv Member Posts: 46
    While shopping for the '04 CTS I visited 4 dealerships and saw numerous cars. Some of them had a leather tag hanging from the drivers headrest, but many did not. I don't know whether the dealers have removed them or maybe GM has more than 1 supplier, and maybe the quality is not the same from all of them.
  • mannytrannymannytranny Member Posts: 175
    Thanks for the update. I'll be watching for your post after August 18.
  • wwhite2wwhite2 Member Posts: 535
    I never took the tag off .Just kind of swung it around to the back of the seat It reads the Eagle Ottawa leather company " a tradition since 1865". Did I mention the leather quality issue to the dealer, Nope I cant imagine them doing anything about it . Believe my 95 Eldorado Touring Coupe had the same tag
  • redgtconvredgtconv Member Posts: 46
    Well, I haven't even taken delivery yet, but I will mention to my dealer this week. I am curious to know if many people have complained and what if anything Cadillac will do. I am going to be leasing the car, so I certainly don't want GM to try to charge me for the seat if it's all stretched out by the time I return the vehicle.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    If there is a problem with the leather it is solely Cadillac's not the producer. They simply make it to Cadillac's specs.

    Some of you may recall Bob Lutz's decontenting
    that started a year and half ago.
    One of his brilliant ideas was to have thinner leather glued to a vinyl surface.
    This was specifically mentioned on the Malibu.
    I don't think it was ever implemented though.

    Personally, I think Cadillac should go the other way and get Connelly involved. perhaps a complete Connelly package. It would be great for marketing.
    Sort of like lexus's involvement with Coach.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    I don't have enough experience with leather to be a judge of what is high quality.
    Perhaps someone can steer (no pun intended) us to a site that has all the ins and outs of leather tanning and dying, etc.
    Lexus offers a analine leather in the LS 430 that is softer.
    Mercury offers a glove soft leather in the Marauder that is really nice.
    When I had my Intrigue some of the people complained about the quality of the leather. Saying it looked too much like vinyl.
    It turns out a Olds engineer "harlanc", was a regular on that thread and he told us it looked like that because it was actually a higher grade of leather.
    The natural look leather that is available on the M3 is beautiful to my eyes.
    Maybe someone can clue us in on what makes great leather.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    I answered my own question again. LOL.

    http://www.irvingtanning.com/leather_glossary.htm
  • automoleautomole Member Posts: 154
    Yes, I had the tag attached to the my new car. I haven't bothered mentioning it to Cadillac because I don't imagine they can do anything about it other than replace the seats...I would guess the new ones would stretch out just the same.

    The leather IS high quality in my opinion. GM just chose to go with the perforated leather and THAT's the problem. They should have either pre-stretched the leather better or gone with a higher grade (thicker) for the seat bottom and back.
  • golfnut5golfnut5 Member Posts: 202
    If you did not sit in your driver's seat for approx. three days the stretched leather would contract. I noticed this on my passenger side when I had nobody sitting in the seat for about three days. Obviously the reality is daily driving and the contraction never gets a chance to take place.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    How about some lamb's wool seatcovers.
    They were very popular years ago.
  • wwhite2wwhite2 Member Posts: 535
    If Lutz's goal is to decontent all Cadillacs , then Lutz is a PU-- . If he takes Cadillac down the Cimarron road Cadillac is doomed
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Member Posts: 1,203
    I've found the quality of leather in Cadillacs to be some of the best available on any production car. Much better than what is used in my Intrigue. Both the SLS I had as rental for a week last summer and the CTS I had for the 24 hour test drive had very good leather. I did not look for a butt print on the seat though. However, all this talk of it has made me check my Intrigue for one and I can see no such print. But in the Intrigue, there is a seem right in the middle of the seat whereas I think the CTS has no such seem. Also, the Intrigue's cushion is rather hard where the CTS's seems a bit softer.
  • rob35ctsrob35cts Member Posts: 53
    When I took ownership of my cts the guys who cleaned it put their knee in the back seat when cleaning the back window. It left a mark for about 2 weeks. That was in a solid leather spot.
  • johnnycskjohnnycsk Member Posts: 29
    Are all cadillac dealerships a part of GM Buy Power? The reason I ask, is because I have a small caddy dealership (Alpine cadillac in Brooklyn) 1/2 a mile away and its not listed on the Buy Power site.
  • johnnycskjohnnycsk Member Posts: 29
    You mentioned a couple of times that there were no DOC fees with the Gm in the Driveway certificate. I looked on the site and couldn't find any information on that. Where did you see that? I need some ammunition just in case the dealer hassles me about that.
  • johnnycskjohnnycsk Member Posts: 29
    Do I have to pay taxes on the sale price - trade in of the vehicle or the total sale price in NY if I trade in my car? I'm just trying to figure out if its worth it to trade in or just sell to a private party.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Great article. The V just makes mouth water.
  • sonjaabsonjaab Member Posts: 1,057
    Some dealers are NOT on GM Buypower..sad but true.
    Some dealers will NOT do GM employee/family, coupon deals either. They don't have too.
    Last year NO dealer near me would do GM deal on a new CTS, So I got a new Deville instead......BUMMER! I wanted one BAD!

    The dealer Gen. mgr. will show you the GM "rule book" on employee/retiree purchases as far as adv. fee and DOC fee.
    I paid NO DOC ($40 max. in NY) on my Deville last year. Neither did my cousins who just purchased a T-B and a Vibe with the family deal.

    IN NY.. tax is computed on sale price, minus trade (if any).....Then rebate (if any), loyalty bonus, GM card points etc. is deducted
  • sonjaabsonjaab Member Posts: 1,057
    I have read in some brochures (most makes) Leather is ONLY on the seating surfaces.
    The rest is just plain ol' vinal (spl)!
    ...........geo
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Member Posts: 1,203
    I really want that car! And Morris's job. You think he needs an assistant? That is probably the best review of the CTS-V yet. I wonder if one buys a CTS-V if Cadillac will throw in a european "break-in" package similar to the european delivery program the fancy euro brands offer. The european break-in package would include shipping the car to Germany so you could spend a day on the "ring" learning just what all your new baby will do. Heck, I'd pay for the hotel room if they did that:) Better yet, lets build our own version of the ring here in the US. It looks as if we are finally going to have some cars that are perfectly capable of tackling it.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    He is too busy driving around the 'Ring to hang out with us!
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Huge class action lawsuit back around 1984.
    Customer found out that Nissan was only putting leather on the seating surface. Everything else was vinyl. Nissan lost.

    Since then most automakers are using embossed vinyl everywhere else on the seat.
    And have to disclose that.
  • raybearraybear Member Posts: 1,795
    You have to take a course to be in Buy Power, maybe your dealer hasn't completed it yet. I'm still working on it myself, just got here a week ago.

    You can still contact the dealer via their website as long as they have one.
  • sevenfeet0sevenfeet0 Member Posts: 486
    Also has some unique pictures of some CTS-V innards.

    http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=9&article_- id=704
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Did you guys notice the cooling fins on the differential housing?
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    maybe no euro-delivery package but I'm sure you drive the new CTSv all over Detroit if you want to.......
  • jemillerjemiller Member Posts: 183
    I think I need to go apply for that apprentice tire-duster job at GMPD.

    Skip-shift? Hopefully there'll be a skip-shift-killer plug released about fifteen minutes after the V-car hits the showrooms.

    Nivomat? Say it isn't so...IIRC it's been an expensive, dubiously-reliable PITA on just about everything it's ever been on. I'd have sooner seen GMPD spend the money on some adjustable thigh bolsters on the seats, or something other than a pedal-type parking brake - the whole world of CTS-V driving country isn't Midwest-flat.
  • wwhite2wwhite2 Member Posts: 535
    It seems like the CTS is being produced in sufficent # for an aftermarket market . I havent seen to much . Am I missing something ?
  • mbdalembdale Member Posts: 4
    I AM INTERESTED TO LEARN IF THERE ARE ANY MAJOR PROBLEMS WITH THE 2003 CTS.

    MOST NEW FIRST YEAR AUTOMOBILES HAVE SEVERAL TECHNICAL PROBLEMS THAT ARE USUALLY FIXED FOR THE SECOND YEAR MODEL.

    PLEASE ADVISE.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Could you please repeat your post, I had the stereo on and couldn't hear you.

    Just kidding.

    Leaks into the floorboards.
    Clocks not synching.

    Whatelse guys?
  • automoleautomole Member Posts: 154
    SOME OWNERS HAVE COMPLAINED ABOUT A LEAKING REAR LICENSE BEZEL AND PROBLEMS WITH THE GAS FILLER TUBE. THERE ALSO IS THE OBVIOUS ISSUE WITH THE SEAT LEATHER STRETCHING (IF YOU'VE READ THE RECENT POSTS) AND A RECALL CONCERNING THE NEED TO CHECK THE TORQUE ON A COUPLE OF THE STEERING BOLTS. THE MOST UNIQUE AND ANNOYING PROBLEM IS THE EFFECT THE CTS HAS ON FUTURE CANADIAN OWNERS IN WHICH IT FORCES THEM TO TYPE IN CAPITAL LETTERS ONLY.

    I DON'T THINK ANY OF THE PROBLEMS SHOULD SCARE A PERSON AWAY FROM PURCHASING A 2003...MOST ARE MINOR PROBLEMS THAT CAN EASILY BE FIXED UNDER WARRANTY.
  • eaton53eaton53 Member Posts: 356
    "MOST ARE MINOR PROBLEMS THAT CAN EASILY BE FIXED UNDER WARRANTY."

    Or, by simply locating the caps lock... :-)
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