Cadillac CTS/CTS-V

oldsman01 · August 2002

Maybe when the CTSi(or V series) starts showing it's tallights to some M BMWs those buyers may consider Cadillac, but as someone mentioned before, there is a generation of buyers who have an aversion to Cadillac and pretty much anything American made or branded. There may have been a time when that was warranted, but is very quickly disappearing into the past. Still, these buyers like their Bimmers(which are good cars) and have no intention on looking at another brand. If Cadillac can garner a new generation of buyers with cars like the CTS and keep them hooked with powerful upgrades down the road and then a model upgrade for when they get that "big" promotion(i.e. STS, a future DTS or larger sedan, and XLR)they will succeed just as BMW and MB have. Cadillac's big advantage now is that they are attracting a new generation with their new cars while still having a very loyal and large base of traditional buyers. It's looking like the V8 powered CTS V series is pretty certain as Autoweek just had a small article on it. I do like the new "V" series badge and I loved the sketch they had of one with sort of a mesh crosswire material in the grille.

shifty4 · August 2002

You are right. The trunk light does shut off after a period of time.

Last week my CTS with 3200 miles experienced a dead battery and the trunk lid had been unlatched for several days. I wrongly assumed one was a result of the other.

I fully charged the battery and two days later the battery was dead again. I set up an appointment, put the charger on the battery for several hours but could not get it to start. The DIC was showing 10.2 volts.

Called Cadillac 1-800# roadside assistance who showed up 2 hours later to jumpstart. The Caddy dealer took me right in, found the battery failing load test and leaking acid. They had two CTS batteries in stock which they concluded were both unfit for installation as well. They had a battery delivered from somewhere else which fixed the problem. Obviously everything fully covered under warranty.

Has anyone else experienced battery problems?

oldsman01 · August 2002

Glad to hear your enjoying the CTS, thats pretty funny a guy in a Jeep trying to race you. I occasionally get someone in an SUV trying to outrun me and the best remedy there is get them into the twisties. That heavy vehicle with a high center of gravity just won't match the grip of a sedan with a tight suspension. Glad your liking your new ride.

oldsman01 · August 2002

Anybody got any monthly or YTD sales numbers on the CTS? I never see more than one or two at most on my dealers lot and they aren't staying there long as it's usually a different color when I drive by each time. I think the only color I have not seen there(or in person) is the Jade green.

diploid · August 2002

Check autosite.com, oldsman.

bigdaddycoats · August 2002

J-224
F-889
M-3145
A-3506
M-3473
J-3466
J-2933
Total-17636
For some reason only 200 Jade green CTS's were made.

Great posts sevenfeet0. Just curious how you fit in a CTS with a sunroof? I am 6-4 and do not comfortably fit with a sunroof as with most GM cars.

hydra2 · August 2002

Don't know for sure whether it is true of not, but I suspect that one reason Cadillac is not getting many BMW and MB's in trade is that a large percentage of them are probably leased and can't be traded in. Also, since the purchase price of a fully equipped CTS tends to run less than those of its fully equipped European rivals, the CTS may be stealing buyers who tire of leasing for one reason or another.

sevenfeet0 · August 2002

Spy photo link on Edmunds...

http://www.edmunds.com/future/2004/cadillac/cts/4drsedan/photo_1.html

sevenfeet0 · August 2002

At first I thought I wasn't going to get the sunroof. To be honest, it's not very practical for someone my size (6'11", 300 lbs). But I noticed after several times in the driver's seat that the only comfortable position was where my head was slightly higher than midway up the windshield. To get there, I had to lower the seat to the floor and recline it significantly. At this point I realized that I was below the sunroof, enough that I wasn't scraping my head on the liner. I sit this way in most cars I drive, though the Grand Marquis' I rent while on business aren't as fun.

Of course, with the seat in this position, it royally screws whoever sits behind me, but who cares? :-) And it might get worse since I've been told there is a place in Atlanta that does seat modifications. If I could get one more inch or backward travel, I'd be extremely happy.

automole · August 2002

My only point was that there are existing customers and there are future customers. I believe Cadillac has been doing an OK job of stealing future customers from BMW, etc...of course I'm biased because I'm personally one of those customers. As you said " it's not just trade-ins, but new car sales."...these weren't taken into consideration with Cadillac's 'statistics'. hydra2 also has a good point about many new CTS customers not trading in their BMWs because they were leased.

I wouldn't have even considered buying a Cadillac 2 years ago. When shopping I compared the Cadillac CTS to the Mercedes C, BMW 3, Audi A4, Jag X-Type, Lincoln LS, etc. The fact that I bought the CTS regardless of Cadillac's 'pimp' history (those fake convertible tops still make me sick) and my chosen brand loyalty being Ford/Lincoln, says that Cadillac is at least somewhat successful in gaining new customers.

dindak: I'm not THAT old and I remember when VW, Audi, BMW, and Honda were ALL considered crap...at least in my neck of the woods. I actually remember people making fun of my neighbor when they drove home their new Honda POS. BMW's and Audi's were unreliable and expensive to fix. I mean, I would be a liar to say that my biased childhood memories of Audi didn't affect my decision to NOT buy one at least on some subconcious level...the same with VW.

Also, Chrysler is a good example of what I HOPE Cadillac isn't. They managed to pull out of their slump by producing some nice looking innovative cars; unfortunately IMO the quality is still crap and after my experiences I probably won't ever buy another Chrysler/Dodge again.

If Cadillac has the quality to back up the styling of the CTS I'll most likely end up trading it in on ANOTHER Cadillac (hopefully CTSv!) when the time comes.

g1994sts · August 2002

Damage done will continue for decades to come. two points I want to make:- 1)There are way too many sedan Devilles from the 80's on the road. I believe they stop making them in 93. Many of these barges have the golden Rolls Royce grills, and the driver just looks bad in the oversized window with the long 60's steering column protruding from the dash. Everyday I see at least two. 2) Cloth fake cabriolet roofs seem to be more popular then ever. This perceived high status of the cloth roof phenomenon is nauzeating to the EURO LUX buyer and to potential new younger customers who would consider getting a new Cadillac. There are posters on this thread who have seen cloth clad CTS's. When the polyester pant, white belt and shoes evil little old men get their hands on more CTS's with the cloth on them, I really dont see a bright future for Cadillac. What a shame!

sevenfeet0 · August 2002

g1994CTS is right about this and it gets back to the dealer network and the culture of the buyers. For Cadillac, the late 70s was the beginning of the slide of respectablity. Customers began doing all kinds of ugly mods to their cars. Even Cadillac themselves got into the act by offering fake wire wheels (my mother's '79 Seville had them) or fake convertible tops ('78-'79 Cadillac Phaeton). Lincoln also offered these kind of treatments on their cars for years. The Disco era was not very kind to Cadillac.

Since then, some of these modifications have hung around like a fungus. Both Atlanta Cadillac dealerships I visited offered aftermarket grills for all their cars (including CTS). They all offered aftermarket wheels and my personal un-favorite, Vogue Tyres (tm). Cadillac isn't the only one guilty of this. Two Infiniti dealerships I visited offer aftermarket wood trim packages for their cars including the G35. I actually got a sales rep to confess to me that they weren't worth the money. They also both offered "teflon paint bonding treatments", whatever that is. The old "rustproofing" scam is still alive and well in the car dealer network.

These things drive up dealer profit, and maybe some of the buyers like them. Half the Escalade buyers I see in Atlanta have 20 inch aftermarket wheel/tire packages. (Cadillac probably needs to offer something of this size as a factory option). Unlike g1994CTS, I do not see fake cabrio tops any longer (thank God!).

I do see Mercedes buyers in Atlanta doing the aftermarket wheels thing too (but almost never grilles). I see virtually no BMW owners with setups like this, but the profit margin is so high on those cars that the dealers probably feel they don't have to. I suspect that BMW also has a tighter control on its dealer network of what they can and cannot offer. BMW may consider visible dealer modifications a "trade dress" issue. Or their customers just may not want the mods in the first place.

Fortunately for Cadillac, a lot of the older 80s and late 70s cars and their treatments are off the road. Now they just have to worry about '90s cars, in which mods were done to a lesser extent.

akirby · August 2002

Actually the wood trim packages can be very nice, depending on the vehicle and the pieces. In my LS it covers the cheap black plastic on the center stack and looks great - matches the fake factory WUD just fine (the 2003 gets REAL walnut). If it's overdone it can be very tacky and on some vehicles it just doesn't look good at all. I definitely agree about the vinyl roofs and other aftermarket trash. Someone here at work has the exact same car but they added a 3 inch chrome strip (put on with tape no doubt) to the rocker panel and covered the black B pillar with the same stuff. Looks HORRIBLE! There's just no accounting for taste these days.

fjk57702 · August 2002

Would anyone really know what good taste was if not for the kitsch?

dindak · August 2002

The great thing about the Cadillac name is that it has a great past unlike some brands which are good / better now, but were crap from the beginning. Even most of the people who don't consider buying Cadillac, know it has had a glamorous past.

For what it's worth, that's what I remember. Our neighbor had a Cadillac and it was a beauty. In the 80's and 90's there were lots of goofs, but my feeling is and has always been that Cadillac could do better. I finally see the proof with the CTS. Hopefully it will continue into other models in the years to come.

richw5 · August 2002

I've always believed that the vast majority of posters on this board have been positive in their comments on the CTS and Cadillacs in general. I consider many of the to be friends. We have exchanged honest opinions about the cars, both good and bad, and Let's be honest, all cars, including the CTS, have good and bad features.

However, I am bothered by one poster who seems to have only negative posts. First, the poster has a problem with the length of the steering column, he can't reach the pedals. The solution is simple, if the car doesn't meet your needs, get rid of it. I had the same car (94 STS) and the steering column was short and adjustable, it was fine.

Secondly, the poster referred to senior citizens who wear white belts and white shoes as "evil old men". While I'm 60 years old (senior citizen?) and wore white belts and shoes during the 70's (haven't worn them for 30 years), I have a problem with refering to retirees as "evil".

For the record I do not like gold grills or cabriolet roofs, but we have freedom of choice in this country and I believe that the choice includes the right to be gaudy and dumb looking.

End of soap box.

I love my CTS, no gold grill, no cabriolet roof.

Rich W

necros · August 2002

http://www.tirerack.com is now selling Eibach Pro-Kit springs for the CTS. Price is $297 for a set of four with a drop of 1" in front and 1.5" in back. The status says they are "special order", so I'm not sure what kind of time one would have to wait for them. That is all.

sweetjeldorado · August 2002

Look for the CTSv from the Car Connection next week. I hope it is the real picture of the car rather than a slight spy shot of it.

Question: Have any of you guys other than current CTS owners know that you saw the car you looked at was the CTS in the rear without trying too hard "at nighttime". I past by one and could not tell the front but when I looked in the rearview mirror and stared at the beautiful taillights, I knew the car was the CTS. It was pitch black with no street lights whatsoever. Have anything happened to you guys before like that. I saw two that night by noticing the rear of it. You can not tell on a Mercedes, Lexus, Acura, or BMW but the vertical lit-up taillights of the Cadillac, you can at night. I like Cadillacs concept of being different and willing to stand out from the crowd. I wish there were bunch of CTSs on the streets now. Man, those cars are drop dead gorgeous.

J "CaddyLac"

sevenfeet0 · August 2002

Just because you're a "senior citizen" doesn't mean you don't want to have fun in a car, or want to load it up with kitsch. Richw5 is right. Now Cadillac does want younger buyers and the CTS is the first salvo. But older folks have more than a right having fun behind the wheel. After all, BMW gets buyers of all ages, why not Cadillac.

BTW, my wife and I are 34 and 37 respectively. This will be my 4th Cadillac. I've owned an '80 Deville (sold), a '91 Deville (wrecked), and a '76 Deville (inherited, still own).

sevenfeet0 · August 2002

I've changed my mind on kitsch. Truthfully, the 70s ruled! I've got back to the dealership and ordered the gold treatment, baleen whale grill, fake cabrio top, and 22 inch Vogue Tyres. I needed to get a shock kit that jacked the car up 10 inches, but it was worth it!!!

oldsman01 · August 2002

It's not always the "older" folks driving Cadillacs with the takcy add ons. I've seen a certain demographic of younger males driving these as well. The hip hop crowd really seems to love the vogue wheels on just about anything, not just Cadillacs. Other than padded aftermarket tops on Devilles and Sevilles, I don't see as many truly tacky add ons to newer Cadillacs like I do with older ones. And maybe it's just me, but just because someone else puts this stuff on his doesn't mean I'm not going to buy the car. Look at all the crap that kids put on Hondas and Toyotas these days, doesn't seem to be hurting their sales.

oldsman01 · August 2002

Your post reminds me of the first time I saw a CTS in person almost year ago. I was driving to Chicago and was on I-65 just outside of Indianapolis and was approaching something that I could not make out. The taillights in the distance made me think Cadillac, but the body style was not typical Caddy. As I got closer I thought to myself, is this a CTS? And sure enough as I got upon the car, it was a black CTS with Michigan manufacturer plates. I was a little skeptical of the car after seeing the first pictures, but after seeing one in person, I liked it ALOT! The only thing that would make it even more distinctive would be LED taillights like the Deville has.

pbhatti · August 2002

Found this article interesting: http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&loc_code=index &content_code=00952572

*remove the space in the address

It looks like Cadillac is having a hard time selling to MB, BMW and Lexus owners and is now targeting those moving up from the Camry and Accord.

richw5 · August 2002

Friends,

I'm starting to see more CTS's on the road. 3 in the last two days (1 each, white, black and silver). Got a chance to follow my wife the other day and was impressed with the look of the taillights. They probably didn't go with LED's due to the cost.

My wife's driving is mostly stop and go to work. She is averaging about 17.4 MPG. When ever we add a little road driving to the mix we get about 20 MPG. A 225 mile trip to Springfield, Ill averaged 22.4 MPG in rain and high winds and 27.8 MPG on the return trip (no rain and wind).

What are the rest of you getting?

The more we drive the CTS, the more we like it. It was originally a compromise to reduce the driving on our other car and have a second car with a back seat (for transporting our grandson). We are extremely happy with the driveability and enjoy the compliments we get. I know we made the right decision and hope you all feel the same about your CTS or future CTS.

Rich W

P.S. It's always fun to watch a BMW approach in the rear view mirror. They pull alongside at a stoplight and look the other way, trying to decide if they want to try to show me their taillights (most don't). I pick and choose whether to dust them off (3 series) or look the other way myself (5 and 7 series). Afterall, if if done with caution, life should be fun.

robh3 · August 2002

You've got a good outlook on life and seem to be really enjoying your CTS and are happy with your purchase.

Hope you continue to find it to be a good car.

You discuss your gas mileage. I have a question for you and other CTS owners: are you using premium or regular unleaded? If I'm not mistaken, the car can run on regular, but calls for premium for "maximum performance". Is that correct?

ROB

sevenfeet0 · August 2002

As many of you regulars know, I ordered my CTS two days ago. For the people here that ordered their cars, how long did it take? I'm told this could be up to six weeks. I've never ordered a car before. In the past, its usually been from dealer stock. But that's kinda hard these days with CTS's leaving the lots almost as fast as they get there.

sevenfeet0 · August 2002

This might be breaking the rules around here but here goes. I want to relay my good dealer buying experience to this group for any Atlanta buyers. I purchased mine from Capital Cadillac. They spent several sessions with me and my wife discussing the car and its many features. They treated my wife with attention and respect (I've seen many dealerships that relegate women to second class status).

At the end of the day, they worked with us on pricing to get it down to close to GM Supplier Price (my company supplies software to GM). GM Supplier discount is a program that Capital normally doesn't participate in, especially for a popular car. This was above and beyond the call of duty in my book.

If you're in Atlanta and in the market, look up Patty Conway at Capital Cadillac and tell her that Rick, the seven foot giant sent you. You will not be disappointed.

richw5 · August 2002

Rob,

The Service Advisor at my local Cadillac Dealer, who takes good care of my STS, recommends premium fuel. It runs better and gets better mileage. He has always treated me very well, even though I've never bought a car at that dealership, so I trust him.

We have a Clark Gasoline station in town where you actually have to walk into the station to pay for your gas (no credit card pumps). They are about 12 to 14 cents cheaper per gallon ($1.54.9 yesterday) than all of the other local gas stations. Needless to say, both cars get filled up there.

Just saw another Black CTS this morning. Looked great!!

As far as my attitude, I have a great wife, good friends and a 13 month old grandson (who I have truely bonded with). I could compile a list of negative things in our life, but they would drag us down. The alternative is six feet under. Seeing my wife's face when she is driving her CTS makes me happy.

Rich

mannytranny · August 2002

I started out using regular but switched to premium after the third tank. I think that it performs better, or it's just in my mind.

I do put the pedal to the metal quite a bit and yet I'm getting about 19.5 with mostly city driving.The worst tank was 18.8 and the best was 21.5 Haven't gone on a long trip yet so I don't know what highway only will get.

I keep trying not to wind the gears out so far to see if the mileage will improve , but I just enjoy driving the CTS so much that I can't resist the urge.

The dealer where I bought my car is now stocking or trying to keep in stock at least 4 autos and 1 manual trans at all times. He said that their allocation numbers have been increased by GM.He also said that the CTSs are selling in that ratio for the present.

necros · August 2002

I ordered mine on 1 June. It arrived on 25 July. I had the two-week plant shutdown to worry about, but it really depends. For example, mine rolled off the assembly line on 28 June, but it sat around for a bit while they waited for other cars heading to Denver to be added. Normally, they won't roll out a train without a full load. Yours could be the last one on, in which case it would be faster, or the first one on, in which case it would be longer. It could take five weeks, but it could take eight or so, too.

And, if dealer plugs are allowed, I'd love to post mine. I'll wait and see if they are, though.

pat · August 2002

Occasional dealer plugs are not a problem as long as the poster is not the dealer/salesperson. ;->

However, they probably get more attention over on our Smart Shopper board - that's where folks tend to look for that kind of information.

akirby · August 2002

if the CTS was designed to use premium, use it. Using lower octane will result in retarded timing, worse fuel economy and less performance. It could actually cost more to use regular because of the poorer fuel economy. You can get by with an occasional tank of regular if you can't get premium but don't make a habit of it. Anyone who can afford a $35K vehicle can afford 20 cents a gallon extra for premium.

bingoman · August 2002

My CTS took about 8 weeks for deliver, between March and May. They were still working out delivery bugs so hopefully they are delivering them sooner these days. I January I spoke to a production line worker on temporary duty at the Los Angeles Auto show who told me that Cadillac had a plan to stock painted bodies of each color in a rack at the assembly plant so that they could assemble a car on order within two days of receipt of the order, for delivery within two weeks. I wonder if it will ever happen.

As to gas mileage, I don't pay much attention. I agree with akirby. If you have to ask the price of gasoline you can't afford the car. LOL. And I always use premium, which I have seen at 91 to 93 octane around the country.

I would also like to sing the praises of my dealer,Rydell Cadillac in the San Fernando valley, and especially of my sales lady, Mariola Sharsky. This is the first time I have ever bought two cars in a row from the same dealer, let alone the same sales person. She treats my wife and I almost as if we are family. If the service department gives me any trouble, and that rarely happens, she is all over the service manager. They may not have the most modern facilities, but they take good care of their customers.

shifty4 · August 2002

This is a re-post of a note I put on the prior CTS board just before it was discontinued. The owner's manual recommends 91 octane but in this area you find 87, 89, and 93. I use 93

Here is the gas mileage I have experienced on my automatic transmission CTS. The gas mileage was that shown on the DIC after at least 75 miles driving at each average speed. I believe these numbers are accurate because the gallons used is always within 1/10 gallon of the actual amount required to fill the tank. All measurements were recorded while using 93-octane gas. Anyway here it is:

Average Speed --- Gas Mileage

19.5 mph --- 17.2 mpg

31 mph --- 21.4

40 mph --- 23.4

51 mph --- 25.7

60 mph --- 27.6

70 mph --- 29.5 mpg

I now plan to record the same values using regular (87-octane) gas. I will post the results when complete.

robh3 · August 2002

Some "common knowledge" here among car enthusiasts, but perhaps worth mentioning for those considering the CTS who are not as familiar with the car market...

...Compared to quite a bit of it's competitors in its class, the CTS's bloodline is at the "top" of the food chain. What I mean is this: Take a look at some of CTS's competitors - the Lexus ES300 -- it is a dressed up and modified version of the lesser expensive and less luxurious Toyota Camry. Same for the Audi A4, which is a dressed up and modified VW Jetta. How about the Infinity I35? It's a dressed up and modified Nissan Maxima. Then there's the Acura TL, which is a suped up Honda Accord. The Infinity G35? OK, I'm not sure of it's origins, but certainly it's based on some Nissan model from Japan.

But the CTS? Instead of being the "high end", modified vehicle of a lower-end platform, the CTS is, itself, the basis point for some forthcoming higher-end vehicles (STS, SRX).

So, when you are driving a CTS, you are driving a $35k car that was built on the platform of $45-$50+k cars. When you drive lots of its competitors, you are driving a $35k car that was built on the platform of a $25k and below car.

Kind of worth stopping to think about when you are plunking down your hard-earned cash!!

Are there other cars with the same type of bloodline as the CTS? Yes, the Lincoln LS is one of them. The Jaguar S-Type is it's more expensive sibling.

cadman88 · August 2002

The Infiniti G35 is based on the Nissan Skyline's platform, and I belive that its basically the Corvette of Japan.

About the bloodline, the only ones I can think of off the top of my head are BMW and Mercedes.

akirby · August 2002

Yes, the G35 is the detuned skyline from Japan. As far as the CTS being a $45-$50K platform.....the only vehicle currently on that platform is the CTS. So by definition it's a $35K platform that may be "gussied up" for future higher priced caddys, according to that logic.

Don't get too hung up on 'platform sharing'. Sort of like a highly tuned V6 versus a not so highly tuned small V8. They can both produce the same power for about the same cost. It's not where you start - it's where you end up.

cadillac1 · August 2002

I think it was you who asked me to lengthen the doors on my CTS coupe right? Well I think my Mod looks to Montecarlosish, but what the hell.

http://community.webshots.com/album/36142151RAyTig

cadman88 · August 2002

I like those better,nice job.

b4z · August 2002

I have been looking at the weekly production numbers since the beginning of the year.
They have been steadily going up. First it was 900 cars a week then they broke 1000, the last 2-3 months it has been 1100 and this week they broke the 1200 number with 1204 cars produced.
The total for August is a stunning 4,997!
Like I said last week this is simply too many cars of this class.
Maybe Caddy is just trying to get more cars in the pipeline.
I seriously hope that they are not going for 60,000 cars per year.
Can you say $2000 rebate or 2.9% financing?
We will see it this Spring if they keep it up.

cadman88 · August 2002

Where did you get those numbers?, I'm not saying they're wrong, they are probaly right, I just wanted to know where to get them. Also I think that the more you see the CTS the more you like it, so maybe they're trying to get a bunch out there for that reason. Also it will be getting a freshining so maybe they want to get as many of the 2003s out there and then make the 2004s a lot better than they already are.

b4z · August 2002

www.autonews.com
Scroll down and look to the far right. You will see a box with weekly North American auto production.
There is a .pdf file. Click on it and everything will come up.

sevenfeet0 · August 2002

Those figures are interesting. The CTS is now Cadillac's second best selling car, and certainly growing faster than most other cars at GM. CTS now outsells Escalade (SUV, not EXT) for total units this year. Only the Deville outsells the CTS (at a 2-1 ratio). Not bad for a new model entry in this price class. The CTS is gaining momentum, even if its not currently at the expense of BMW and Mercedes.

Also, I don't think I'd worry about the total numbers just yet. Cadillac would like to sell all the cars they can. This is not a market where you might want to create an artificial supply problem to boost exclusivity. GM wants to see a lot of these things on the road. Restrictive sales tactics may work better for halo cars, like the upcoming V-series Cadillacs.

And as far as "stuffing the channel", I know that Cadillac is trying to up the normal dealer allocation, but that seems to be driven by demand. The Cadillac dealers in Atlanta don't have to keep their inventory on hand long. Two weeks ago my wife test drove a CTS LuxSport and compared it to a base stock CTS that were in inventory. Two days later, both cars and two others had been sold. The only CTS still in stock (as of early this week) was a Copper Sunburst Lux model, which seems to be waiting for the right extroverted owner :-)

b4z · August 2002

The CTS might be taking sales away from the STS, which is really slipping ever since they came out with the new model that was much more expensive than the one it replaced.
The CTS also may be stealing sales away from the deville.
Deville sales are down due to decreased sales to fleets, but deville retail sales are actually up.
This is good for resale.
If Caddy will focus on product and reliability plus their dealer service things will be good for them. If they flood the market with a lot of cars then resale and reputation will suffer.
The last thing a Caddy owner wanst to see is a dealer advertising new ones for $7000 off.
Makes it kind of hard to buy a new one every year.
LOL.

oldsman01 · August 2002

If the market demands 60K CTSs a year, let them build them. BMW sells that many(or more) 3 series a year and don't have to rely on big discounts or low rate financing. As much as I'd love to be able to get one to try it out, I really REALLY hope that Cadillac doesn't resort to selling the CTS to rental fleets. They have actually done this with the Seville as I had a 2002 SLS from Avis when I was in Milwaukee earlier this month. I think the CTS sales numbers are good. For a brand new car with somewhat controversial styling in a class which is highly competitive, I think Cadillac is headed in the right direction. Keep that price in line, keep her on a steady diet of refinements, and keep upping the hp every few years and they will have a winner for sure.

oldsman01 · August 2002

Thats a very good post about vehicular bloodlines. I've argued this before in other forums. The CTS was designed from the ground up to a "premium" chassis which would spawn other even more premium vehicles. I'm glad I'm not the only one who realizes that the ES300 is just a fancy Camry(complete with the low hanging exhaust pipe), the I35 a fancy pants Maxima(complete with the beam axle rear suspension), and the TL a half brother to the Accord(complete with dull styling). Not that platform sharing is always a bad thing as it does allow the manufacturer to amortize development costs quicker(thus giving you more bells and whisteles at a lower price) but it certainly doesn't help the overall brand image. By resisting the temptation to just sell a fancy version of an Olds or a Buick as their entry level model and designing a new chassis for it shows that Cadillac is serious about competing with the likes of Audi, BMW, and MB. I may not be able to afford one, but I'm looking forward to seeing the next generation STS. Any word on if Cadillac plans a high end(i.e. 7 series, S-class) sedan down the road? A DTS like car with a RWD chassis and about 350 hp coming from it's Northstar would be neat.

cadman88 · August 2002

Well the 2003 concept (FTS) will be an S-class fighter, (actually its more like a Maybach fighter at half the price and twice the ponies. Here is how I see Cadillac's future Products, price wise. I hope this is what they offer in the 2007 model year. If they make all of these, they would be the "STANDARD OF THE WORLD" again.

SEDANS
CTS:30-40k, with high end model at about 47-48k.
STS:37-50k with high end model at about 56-57k.
DTS:42-55k, model with V12 at about 62k.
FTS:100-125/130k, 1000hp V16

SUVS/CROSSOVERS/WAGONS
CTS wagon: 32-42k, high end at 48k.
SRX: 38-50k, high end at 55k.
ESCALADE: 52-57k V12 model at 65k.
ESCALADE EXT: 53-57k V12 model at 65k.
ESCALADE ESV: 59-64k V12 model at 70k.

COUPES/CONVERTIBLES
CTS coupe: 30-40k high end at 50k.
CTS convertible: 38-45k high end at 55k.
STS coupe: 38-45k high end at 55k.
STS convertible: 43-50k: high end at 60k.
XLR: 75-80k, high end at 95k.
CIEN: 200k.

sweetjeldorado · September 2002

In the October issue of Motor Trend in the news section, the CTS coupe will be based on the next generation CTS which will be out in late 2007. However Cadillac have not forgotten the coupe market but trying to make a better looking coupe than the one you saw a sketch of in Motor Trend some time back.

However, GM is considering doing some modifications on the sigma platform for the DTS but still not hesitant having the next generation model in front wheel drive but have special tooling to give it allwheel drive.

Sales YTD,

I added luxury sales YTD and here goes up to July.

BMW = 142,568
Lexus = 135,847
Cadillac = 106,530
Mercedes = 103,421*
Lincoln = 85,584

*Mercedes sales year to date is 112,900 but since the C 230 coupe is not a luxury car at $25,000, subtract it from 112,900 you get 103,421.

J "CaddyLac"

richw5 · September 2002

Sweetjeldorado -

Where did you get the sales figures? I've been looking for sales figures as opposed to the NA production numbers found at autonews.com. If you remove the truck (SUV) numbers from sales, how do they lineup. BMW and Lexuz are heavy into trucks.
I read somewhere, that the DeVille is still the best selling luxury car model, don't know if that's true or not.

B4Z -

You hit the nail on the head. Cadillac (and GM) need to focus on the following:

1. Create inovative vehicles.
2. Improve product quality, so that Cadillac is the "Standard of the World".
3. Reward dealers who give "World Class Service".

Cadman88 -

Interesting lineup, but don't count on a STS coupe, CTS wagon or a CTS convertible for a while. Four door sport sedans are currently in vogue. However the CTS coupe might do very well. Cadillac needs to get each new model (CTS, XLR, SRX and STS) perfect before expanding their lineup.

Lots to think about, maybe Cadillac should hire us (Cadillac owners) to provide input. After all we drive Cadillacs everyday and know their good and bad points.

Rich W

oldsman01 · September 2002

Interesting to see that Cadillac's overall sales numbers are increasing again as at one point, Lincoln, MB, and even Acura were selling better overall. Looks like the CTS is really helping things. And despite all it's criticism, the Escalade EXT seems to be suceeding where the Lincoln Blackwood failed. It's not my cup of tea, but nonetheless and unique vehicle.

Cadman88, I like your line-up, especially a 62K V-12 DTS. Yes, thats alot of money for a car, but an absolute bargain when compared against MB and BMW V-12s. And I absolutely love the idea of an "ultimate" Fleetwood.

richw5, I think Cadillac is really working at creating innovative vehicles and have really improved quality, but I'm with you solidly on rewarding dealers for excellent service. This seems to be the biggest gap they(and alot of domestic brands) have as service experiences vary greatly from one dealer to the next. A Customer should be able to buy a Cadillac at one dealership and get quality service at any dealership the car is taken too. This is the foundation that Lexus, Infiniti, and even Saturn built on. It wasn't just the cars, but the overall ownership experience that brings those customers back.

Cadillac CTS/CTS-V

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