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Dodge Charger 2006+
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The interior did not stop me from ordering my 2006 Magnum. The factory is running full speed on three shifts, so a fancier interior could not sell more cars, but might allow them to charge more (especially if the fancier interior is optional). As it is, the real problem may be getting a second factory on-line to build the cars.
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Dodge Charger
Chevrolet Impala SS
Pontiac Grand Prix GXP
Nissan Maxima
Mazdaspeed 6
Subaru Legacy
How does this sound?
As for the Lexus, I don't see how it even competes with the other cars you mentioned.. The ES330 is based on the Camry, which is not a sporty car. The Lexus isn't a sports sedan, it's more similar to quiet, luxury cars like the Lincoln Zephyr/LS, Mercedes C350, and the Jaguar X Type. It is also the most expensive car you mentioned. All in all, the Lexus is more luxury than sport. I you want a Lexus try testing a Lexus IS300, that's more of a sport sedan.
My personal picks in this category, (this is very subjective, based on what I've read are)
#1 Chrysler 300C
#2 Mazdaspeed 6
#3 Dodge Charger
#4 Nissan Maxima
#5 Subaru Legacy
#6 Lexus !S300
#7 Pontiac Grand Prix
#8 Chevrolet Impala
I'm not crazy about the Maxima's styling. I like the Altima's styling more.
I haven't considered a Subaru - I don't even know what they look like.
The Lexus is in roughly the same price category (higher end) - and it's a Lexus. I'm not crazy about the 330 but aren't we all supposed to bow our heads in solemn reverence every time we mention a Lexus or a Toyota? It's on my list for a test drive but I'd rather buy domestic, something with more bumps and curves too.
That being said, I realize that Chrysler-Dodge is no longer domestic. The new Charger is just too hot not to look at - I'm hoping they announce an AWD option soon - otherwise the 300-Hemi, Impala SS and GP GXP are the Front-Runners.
Rear wheel drive is better in every way. In the old days, some cheap buyers and dealers did not buy their rear wheel drive cars with limited slip differentials, so they had problems in the winter. Those days are over - the modern rear wheel drive cars have mechanical and/or electronic limited slip differentials / traction control, stability control, and antilock brakes.
Because it is better balanced, a rear wheel drive car will stop sooner and handle better than a front wheeld rive car, and it will not exhibit torque steer.
The only advantage of front wheel drive is that it is cheaper to build.
Of course, all wheel drive is even better, and the 300 and Magnum 3.5 V6 SXT models and the 300C and Magnum RT offer AWd as an option, so it should be just a matter of time before the AWD option appears on the Charger.
I understand that snow tires are a great help, but it's a hassle as well to get your tires swapped twice a year and to sacrifice your dry road performance for 4 or 5 months.
With a front driver, you get a decent set of all weather tires and you're in good shape year around without the hassle or expense of tire swapping. That is a real advantage.
The real advantage comes when you have a RWD car with two sets of tires, then you can maximize your performance year round instead of being stuck with a nose heavy sled cursed with terminal understeer. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Best Regards,
Shipo
For light acceleration, you are absolutely correct, however, what about turning and stopping. A nicely balanced RWD car should easily be able to out perform an otherwise identical FWD car assuming similar tires and slippery road surfaces.
I've got over three decades of driving in the midwest and the north east, and my cars have been almost evenly split between FWD and RWD. I can say without reservation that my last two RWD cars (with very competent traction control systems) have been by far the most capable cars I've ever had the pleasure of piloting through the white stuff, assuming winter tires of course.
Fortunately I don't live at the top of one of those 20% driveways on our street (that I mentioned in my last post), because even their AWD cars equipped with winter tires cannot make it up with anything more than an inch or so.
Best Regards,
Shipo
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
The formula for calculating grade is:
Percent Grade = (Rise/Horizontal Distance) * 100
Givens: the Rise and the Horizontal Distance use the same consistent scale of measurement.
Based upon that formula, your 30 foot driveway that climbs 8 feet over that distance has a gradient of 26.67%. As there isn't a single AWD or 4WD vehicle in my neighborhood that can climb even a 20% grade when it is snow covered, I'm thinking that you took your measurement with your Mark-I eyeball, and maybe its calibration is off by a few feet. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
You all make good points especially with regards to RWD in extreme weather, but there have been several technological advancements in recent years. First there is weight transfer. The 2006 Dodge Charger has a near 50/50 weight distribution meaning the force pushing down on the tires shifts from the front to the rear. Then there’s vehicle balance which is distributed evenly throughout the car for better handling and braking. DCX is confident in their technology to minimize snow-traction objections. Standard with the Charger is the Electronic Stability Program, including Emergency Brake Assist, anti-lock brakes (ABS) and All Speed traction Control. This system aids in driver control and helps maintain directional stability over uneven surfaces and over patchy snow, ice or gravel. The vehicle corrects its path based on the drivers intended course. I think when you have the opportunity to test drive the new Charger, you may find the RWD system very different from what you’ve experienced in the past.
I think the 30 foot is actually generous, but the 8 foot is probably off. Maybe 5 would be closer. So, what's that? about 16-17%?
I do know that, back in the day, my '87 4runner was unstoppable in anything with its all-terrains. I miss the days of manually locking hubs.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Just wanted to make one small adjustment to one of your statements:
"The 2006 Dodge Charger has a near 50/50 weight distribution meaning the force pushing down on the tires shifts from the front to the rear."
I think what you mean to say is that the weight shifts from the front to the rear upon acceleration, which, frankly, is true of every car and has nothing to do with weight distribution. Its just simple physics.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Best Regards,
Shipo
I had previously driven FWD and AWD vehicles before I bought a Magnum (previous car was a Subaru Impreza Outback sport), and when driving in the snow, I really missed the AWD feel from the Subaru. But I was using the standard all-season tires on my Magnum, so for next winter I WILL be investing in snow tires.
The ESP, ABS, EBA and TCS are all welcome and useful (it came in handy avoiding a near-multi-car collision on a snowy highway in January), but I found at times with the Hemi motor, if the tires cannot get any grip, the car will not accelerate -- I have crawled across intersections slower than I could have walked it while other people drive past me without problems. After one particular snowstorm, I was unable to push through the snow to get up my driveway and into the garage, an approximate 5% grade, while my neighbor in a FWD car had no trouble pushing through 5-6" of heavy snow.
Also, I found out that all the fancy electronic agents don't help much when the car starts sliding sideways (traffic jam on the highway while it was snowing, trying to accelerate from a stop, the heavy Magnum would occasionally slide sideways with the slope of the road before it would move forward).
Just a word of cold-weather caution for those considering the Charger.
However, on open road in good weather, put the pedal to the floor, and smile.
I sent Dodge a hate letter asking them why the interior door panels of the new Charger look and feel like hard molded plastic, I asked them if padded vinyl had suddenly become too expensive for a $30000 car, and I asked them why AWD was not an option since a lot of us guys in the Northeastern U.S. prefer anything to RWD. (Shipo - You're still the man...Call me a hard-headed Guinea).
I got back an automated response saying something like "Yeah we're excited about the car too"....
Look if I was living in Florida we would not even be having this discussion. Graded driveways, weight distribution and traction all are very manageble on a hot dry piece of asphalt. Up here in New York if your car gets plowed in by a NYC Sanitation truck, you want that weight UP FRONT to pull you over the snowbank that gets created. Also ask yourself - why did Chrysler need to come out with an AWD Hemi-300 after one year if all of their friggin traction control was so special?
Despite all of this, I still want the Hemi Charger more than any other car out there. I may even wait until 2007 if I think there's an AWD version coming. If I don't think it will happen then the Lexus ES 330 or the Chevy Impala SS or the Pontiac Grand Prix GXP all give me plenty of what I'm looking for. I know I'm not alone in that sentiment.
one area that i don't think has been mentioned that is of crticial importance when trying to maximize your traction in a rwd platform is tire width: most moden high performance rwd cars have WAY too much rubber on the road for snow conditions. focusing the weight of the vehicle onto a smaller contact patch can do wonders for getting better traction in snow.
another thing to consider: 50/50 weight distribution is fine for handling and does help with the traction problem in rwd to a degree, but only so much. not enough weight over the drive wheels will cause a loss of traction; that's why fwd is superior for wet weather traction. also, lots of rwd platforms DO NOT have great balance and the lh platform with the hemi is one of them. the fact that the 5.7 was cast in iron rather than aluminum was a major mistake, imo...totally wrecked any chance of having a balanced ride/handling and definitely forced the engineers to rely on electronics to mask the problem of too much weight over the front end.
probably the one single factor that leads to crummy traction in a rwd application is the distance between the front axle plane and the firewall. there must be sufficient room between the two in order for the engine to sit BEHIND the front axle plane or the weight distribution of the car is severely compromised.
one reason that fwd is so popular for packaging purposes, there is almost no intrusion of the drivetrain into the passenger compartment. unfortunately with rwd, in order to achieve the optimal placement of the engine/transmission in the wheelbase of the car, requires the firewall to be moved back into the passenger compartment, reducing the usable interior space for passengers.
i have just skimmed the surface of design differences between rwd and fwd...think of the c5/c6 with the transmission mount in the rear along with the differential: now there is a solution that you can live with....great packaging, great handling and excellent handling in the nasty stuff IF you get rid of those wide tires in the winter.
some food for thought. jackg 90seville 96k
Another thing to consider is climbing a hill with FWD vs. RWD where the road is both slippery and/or rutted. I'm thinking specifically of I-80 east bound through Hackensack, NJ toward the GWB. Every FWD car that I've driven up that hill, in the dry, in the wet and in the snow, had been twitchy under power, at best (in dry), challenging (in the wet), and almost uncontrollable (in the snow). No RWD car I've ever driven up that hill has even felt the ruts much less been a problem to control. Like it or don't, torque steer is something that FWD cars suffer from, especially in slippery conditions, all of which is simply made worse at slow speeds for those of us who only know how to drive a manual transmission. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
We have every reason to believe that Robin is who she says she is
Robin, thanks for sharing your information.
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There are times when car companies have listened to their customers in the past (the most obvious example is the fourth door on Minivans). I speak for many in the Northeast when I say an AWD or FWD Charger will make the deal do-able. I will even put up with the cheap and poorly manufactured interior, although I hope DCX addresses this too.
My dad used to say you should buy a car when you DON'T need one. This is a perfect example of why...I can wait, or I can switch to something more suitable.
Chrysler execs point to early interest in the car even stronger than that for the Chrysler 300C.
April 18, 2005: 10:05 AM EDT
NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - The Dodge Charger, entering production this week, could be another hit for DaimlerChrysler's Chrysler Group, according to a report in the Detroit News citing the company's counts of those interested in buying the car.
The company has already gotten 20,000 orders for the Charger. So far 85,000 people have requested information on the car. Those numbers are higher than those for the Chrysler 300 sedan, which had the strongest first-year sales for any Chrysler Group vehicle in years, according to the newspaper.
Global Insight, an auto industry forecaster, predicted annual sales of 70,000 units for the Charger, which, while outstanding, would not make it a "home run," the newspaper said.
The Charger is based on the same engineering platform as the Chrysler 300 sedan and Dodge Magnum wagon. Like those cars, the Charger will also be available with the Chrysler Group's powerful "Hemi" V-8 engine.
GSEMIKE - You'll Love This...
DaimlerChrysler executives have said recently that American car buyers are no longer interested in two-door designs.
But I wasn't aware any Chargers were in the showrooms...
Did you test drive the car?
Which sound system are you getting?
Which engine comes with the R/T?
Who is your Dodge Dealer? Which City?
Regardless, best of luck with it...Definately the hottest car for 2006!
First off, let me say that the evolution of the Charger was a well thought out plan. The research that was conducted proved that today’s Dodge customers want the thrilling ride and handling of a sports vehicle, but with convenience and functionality. You get that with the new Charger.
Yes, it does share the classic proportions of the popular 300C, but these proportions are handled very differently. Essentially, it is a 4 door sedan, but when you look at this vehicle you undoubtedly notice that the door handles are made flush and color keyed to be inconspicuous in order to play down the 4 doors. It also has a coupe-inspired roofline and a beltline that kicks up over the rear wheel arches all complimented by a bold and confident stance. It’s an open minded approach to today’s muscle cars.
That being said, it’s important to note that the idea of a Dodge sedan was in mind even before the name Charger was chosen. We know that the Charger name has some huge expectations tied to it. The affection for these cars and the memories they still bring to mind are not lost to us. It’s a celebration of great American cars.
2000rt1, let me extend as well my congratulations on your Charger purchase! I’m certain it will bring you years of fun and functionality. Hopefully, you will be posting some pic’s for all of us .
Speaking of the Go Man Go color and the Top banana color ... any chance of getting the Dodge website updated with some nice photos of the Charger in these colors? It's a shame that the Dodge website is kind of the last place to find great pics of the cars they sell ... just an FYI.
Thanks again!!! Heinz
I hope you can scroll through the pages and take note of some of the more critical opinioned fans such as myself and maybe rework things for future Charger versions. Hope you will be able to avoid the GTO pitfall.
I have to know why Dodge was not able to make the Charger look more like this one?
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0404phr_dodge/
Please, read the article and don't just look at the pictures. The car was built on the current LX platform given the specs of the 300C/Magnum. It was done with C.A.D software similar to what most car manufacturers have. I'm still no fan of the name of a beloved classic on a 4 Door boxy car, after all, You will never see a 4 door Mustang or Corvette. Just wish you all would have carefully thought that through instead of trying to capitalize with a marketing idea with NASCAR and bringing back a Classic name to an unclassy looking car.
Now if Dodge wants to come out with a new Challenger or a new Barricuda, one would HOPE they take a long hard look at what the originals meant to us and try and stay true to the originals. Regards...CFF
Hardhawk . Thanks for the invitation .. Yes there is a chance that the Dodge Information Center will join discussions within the Dodge Magnum board. But that decision has not yet been made Just to let you know this is an entirely new venture for us. We chose the Dodge Charger as our “launch” vehicle because it’s brand new for 2006 – we knew there would be tons of questions and we felt that it presented the best opportunity for us to introduce ourselves to the online community.
Chargergirl13 - I'm wondering why a part-time 4-cylinder car wouldn't at least be comparable to a V6.
Chargergirl13 - Fair warning, Remember I’m a marketing representative not an engineer, so my mechanical acumen leaves something to be desired .
• 3.5-liter High Output V-6 engine offers 250 horsepower and 250 lb.-ft. of torque and an estimated fuel economy of19/27
• 5.7-liter HEMI V-8 engine offers 340 horsepower and 390 lb.-ft. of torque and an estimated fuel economy of 17/25
There’s roughly a 2 mile EPA difference city vs. hwy, many would say that’s pretty comparable when you consider the trade off that you get when you “upgrade” to the HEMI (increase in HP and torque). DaimlerChrysler has considered a wide range of technologies for increased fuel economy. All 5.7-liter HEMI V-8 engines come with the Chrysler Group Multi-Displacement System, which (as you described) seamlessly turns off the fuel consumption in four cylinders when V-8 power is not needed. The Multi-Displacement System, as designed, has cost and reliability advantages compared to competitive systems and minimizes the engine design impact, providing relatively low cost for the fuel economy benefit obtained. I hope this adequately addresses your question.
Heinzh2 – Heinzh2, I’m glad to read that you too were impressed with the autoshow reveal You’re not the 1st person to say that the 2006 Dodge Charger seems to “look better in person”. Just to let you know, my current information says that the 2006 Dodge Charger is supposed to hit dealer showrooms this summer At this time the word on which month has not been announced. This essentially means it could happen as early as June or as late as the end of August . Re: the interior center stack color Are you talking about the center “console”? I’ve referenced everything I have, and there’s nothing explaining whether or not the color is “snap” on or a part of the material I can check around, but I’m thinking the dealer would be better informed, and will probably be the best source to verify Lastly pictures and the Dodge brand website . There are ALWAYS pending changes . Keep checking the site
Jimhemi – First let me start by saying you are not alone . I’ve read many comments from consumers who feel similarly . As mentioned in my prior statement, we know that today’s Dodge Charger customers want the thrilling ride and handling characteristics of a sports car, but with the added convenience of a functional vehicle. The 2006 Dodge Charger is a four door modern take on a 2 door classic. There’ve been so many automotive improvements/changes that were either obscure or unheard of that are now considered to be relative standards within the automotive world. Some were based on genuine need like improvements in safety such as airbags, ABS systems; even seat belts are relatively new additions when you consider how long cars have been around. Then you have those items that seemed like luxuries before they were introduced and now we can’t understand why they weren’t offered to begin with like convenience features ex. dual doors on minivans . As always, I can’t speak to future design changes but the public demand often influences what turns up on showroom floors. We encourage all input (critically opposing as well as concurring), and appreciate your passionate defense of how you think the Dodge Charger should look. Thanks
Cfazzari - My hero
T
hanks for including me in the discussion . Sorry for the delayed response You guys have been awesome.
I just don't see how a little more R&D on the Charger, couldn't have brought upon a car more like the PHR one previously mentioned. I know the concept from 99 was from some old school Chrysler employees and ol' Dieter didn't want any part of the old school Dodge thinking in this new Charger. With regards to the answer of the new Charger and the modern day equipment we need in a car, please give me a better excuse then side curtain air bags and front and rear crumple zones causing the chape of the Charger to need a truck grill and bland styling. Your Benz cousins turn out some pretty nice looking cars that have great lines as well as functionality, not to mention the great handling of a sports car and the room to carry 5 people. They also have the best cup holders in the industry.
I wish the 2006 Charger looked more like the NASCAR version, at least the NASCAR version is sleek, love them common templates.
Robin T, let me know when you all attempt to remake the Challenger, I'll be more then happy to relocate and work for you to avoid another debauchery of a classic.(Can get you my resume if you want) I do suppose that even if the Challenger came out, and I'm thinking a Dodge Firepower version if one is on the horizon , won't be so high on the HP and Torque numbers so as to not compete with the Viper. From a marketing standpoint the Challenger would be a better car on the NHRA drag racing circut then then current Stratus in Pro Stock and Funny Car. It would be good seeing the Mopar banner on an actual rear drive car with a HEMI then what your racing effort currently shows. Is Lou Pattain still head of MOPAR racing and development?
Hey Robin - We'll probably have to wait until our next life before we see a hybrid out of Germany, huh?
First off, I’d like to thank jimhemi for his offer you have some great ideas. Secondly, your request for AWD is widespread, but don’t get discouraged. At this point it’s still very early to predict any changes to the Dodge Charger. The vehicle hasn’t even hit the dealer lots yet
Besides, I thought our previous conversation on RWD was pretty encouraging. You guys are a tough crowd
Your enthusiasm for this vehicle, however speaks volumes. As I stated before, keep checking the site often and thanks again for your communications!