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Yeah they'll sell multitudes of IS250s to the same badge hounds that scoop up 325i's and yet can't tell you the displacement of the engine. Basically, Camcord people who want to move up in "status" (as if a car can bestow that).
Don't forget the ES330 is the bestselling car in Lexus' truck driven sales. They haven't been able to give away GSes, ISes and SCes for years. If not for the RX and ES, Lexus' sales would be flat.
Don't bother mentioning other manufacturers...we're talking about Lexus (we all know about the 3 and the G for their brands).
I am personally disappointed because of the lack of room in the back seat. It is tiny. People without kids won't care, but for those of us with rugrats it does not provide sufficient space for even occasional taxi service. For this reason alone, this car will steal zero ES sales. Perhaps this comparison was intended sarcastically also, but I cannot see how these 2 cars can be compared at all.
Toyo also screwed up by not offering the Euro diesel here. it is really irritating how car manufacturers manipulate the North American market.
Looks like I will be keeping the 6-sp TSX....
Biker, who thinks that the MY06 break down for entry level sedans at Lexus will be 60K ES and 40K IS.
Watch the insulting generalizations, guy. I'll stand my "enthusiast" credentials against anybody here, but that doesn't mean we all have to think like you.
Bought one of the first BMW 1600s in 1966; first MB 220 in 1968 - 54 cars in total since 1962, including everything Japanese and German, multiple times over. I don't know when it became "necessary" to hit 60 mph in less than 7 seconds for a car to be considered quick enough and desireable enough. Likewise, I don't care about track performance and skidpad numbers, since I don't spend any time in either place.
I thought the first IS wasn't up to the German standard [BMW 3er and MB C-Class] because it rode so stiffly on crappy pavement, not because it didn't go around corners fast enough or "handle". I've driven the E90, and think it's great, but would just as soon have an IS250 if they've done something about the stiff-legged suspension on the standard [non-sports package] car. Naturally, I'll never know from any road tests in the usual suspect publications - as pointed out by someone above, the car I'm interested in never gets tested for publication.
Call me what you want - nut, enthusiast, crazy [all words from my long-suffering spouse] - but not a "badge hound" just because I don't need to spend $40k to be happy.
OK?
If you ever visit Toronto and see a Bavarian Lederhosen clad Al Capone eating Bratwurst---that guy would be me
Are they even in the 10 most reliable I'm asking
YES according to JD Power and IQS. BMW is #1 for customer satisfaction as a brand according to JD Power. I think Lexus is somewhere among the top ten :P
Just because the bimmer is more exhilarating to drive doesn't make me want it more
At least your honest, but I prefer exhilaration over boring luxury!
I think we should start to focus more on the less exhilarating car than the exciting car before we provoke mass deletions from our host.
All indications point to a much lower starting price for the IS350. Try $35K tops. You should be able to get a fairly loaded IS350 at $40K. For me, I am looking at the IS350 with LL package, VN, and SR. That should be somewhere in the $40K price point +TTL. At least that's what I am expecting, but we'll see....If you want an IS350, get on the waiting list right about now, supply will be limited and demand will be high.
Heritage? Heritage is something you get after 30-40-50 years. Lexus is a neophyte company.
Lexus Execs said they would make a best in class sedan. If it doesn't outhandle/outperform a 330i on a road course, then it's not the best in class. most luxurious, maybe. fastest straightline - maybe. but best in class as promised by Lexus execs at the car's intro...seems not likely. So Lexus did in fact claim to want to dethrone BMW.
If you weren't slying putting down a bunch of people who were "settling" for an IS250 instead of the "real" IS, just what was the point?
When I owned a 914, it wasn't enough of a "real Porsche"; the 325 is a car for "poseurs"; the W201, W202, W203 Mercedes [owned them all, but also owned every S-class before 1992] weren't "real Mercedes".
Sure, there are people who buy every make and model for the "wrong reasons" - who gets to decide what the right reasons are, and why?
Because I grew up overseas, learned to drive in small cars, still prefer EU driving sensibilities [and priorities] to American, I just don't get the obsession for hp that pervades this market. Everywhere but here, a weight-hp ratio of roughly 20:1 is good enough, as long as it is accompanied by reasonable fuel consumption.
Here's where we part company: which BMW do I really want? which IS would I prefer?
A: The diesels! Best combination of power and fuel consumption available, and BMW in particular makes some of the best in the world. Lexus will be selling the IS that way in Europe, as well.
Must be a sure sign of something.....I'll let the marketing experts here decide...
A: The diesels
I would order an IS today if there was a diesel version. What fuel efficiency will Lexus offer? A heavy weighty IS that would not handle like a IS350 but sell at a at a 7 to 8k premium ! Thanks but no thanks!
BMW: Keep making 3
Infiniti: Keep dressing up Z
Lexus: Keep dressing up the Camry and forget about the sports car!
Hyundai: Keep the Sonata more reliable than toyota, and dress it up you will have a Lexus killer!
Wait for a real enthusiast publication to run track testing.
~alpha
He can't. There is nothing good to say about this "NEW" 3, and he fore sure are not going to bring up the other losers like X3. It is much easier to say bad thing about Lexus though.
There are a few of those Lexus Haters around here... is it rule to ask them to get out?
We get it, it was supposed to topple the 3 series and according to its first reviews it doesn't drive like a bimmer. **News flash** the majority of IS potential buyers are still going to buy it myself included and I'm just trying to find out Why does that make you 3 lovers so mad or feel like you have to prove some type of point. I personally wasn't buying it because oh its the great 3 killa, sure it would be great if it drove like a 3 but I guess it don't.
but every thing else about the car is as good or better (thats what I got from it). I'll be at the dealership before they open to pick up mine on that day and it's my 2002 330 thats getting traded in (would trade the wifes 03 accord but I think I'll keep the one thats been alot more reliable so my bimmer is history) oh crap!! I have dishonered the secret society of 3, breaking rule #1 one, help me their coming to kill me now . And I'm far from being a geezer, my bimmer wasn't very reliable, and I happen to love the Lexus interior styling of all their vehicles. "The majority of Lexus sales are related to camry-based low end vehicles" Hmm? SO WHAT. I personally don't care how many of what model was sold the IS is hot as hell loooking, looks gorgeous inside and as long as it's not in the shop after a month of owning it like my bmw was I'll be very happy with it. Can we get a forum for the haters and one just for those of us who are waiting for the car with open garage's. It's ok IS I still want you don't listen to the mean bmw drivers
Check out Sunday's NYTimes, they test drive a Lexus 400h and find that it doesn't get significantly better gas mileage, but it does have better performance.
The title of this discussion has changed, and I expect conversation to focus specifically on the upcoming IS 350. This topic is not about Lexus vs. BMW vs. whatever brand wars, or Lexus sales in general.
If you find that you are still able to post, please note that your status is subject to change without notice if off-topic conversation persists.
Thank you, and let's enjoy talking more about the upcoming IS 350.
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Do prospective IS250 buyers get a more civilized thread as oposed to this heated one?
Seems to me that a 2006+ IS general thread would be ideal - the heated discussions that don't belong can be taken out.
Biker, who would like to see a single IS thread. :shades:
I feel Lexus addressed every issue I had with my current IS: More Power, updated features, true Lexus interior, ML Sound System, controls on the steering, keyless entry, iPod (AUX) connection.
I'm glad the negative comments will no longer be tolerated. I can appreciate everyone opinions, but many of the comments started to get out of hand and way off topic.
Negative comments about the IS350 can be made at any time...
Negative comments about other posters and that are off topic may not be tolerated...
I didn't want you to get your hopes up..
regards,
kyfdx
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From reading it, sounds like IS is a winner and they really liked it. Of course you'll never actually know until they are in production and you go drive one, but looks very promising.
They also used an unofficial stopwatch to clock 0-62 in 5.9 seconds.
Pricing is expected to be released August 20th.
I realize not everyone will love the new IS as much as me, that's OK.
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P.S. Sport package wont be available with AWD. If you buy the car, you can probably get some nicer aftermarket suspension parts and make your own sports package
1. The 2.5 AWD will not have VDIM either standard or as an option. VDIM (standard) will be exclusive to the 350.
2. The sport package will not be offered with AWD. It makes sense as the sport package will include summer-only, low profile tires and 18" wheels. Since the AWD is meant for poor weather such as snow, the AWD would do no good with low profile tires.
3. Typically Lexus packages the ML and NAV together. If this holds true for the IS, and you only want one or the other, you can always special order a car which takes about three months.
4. Price can only be speculated, but look for a loaded 2.5 AWD to be in the mid-high 30s.
If you are worried about the snow and want the 350, get the 350 and simply change the tires in the winter to snow tires. The car will be great in the snow and you'll have the power of the 350 and the benefit of VDIM.
Here are the Accessory Codes for the IS250/350:
FT -- 18" Alloy Wheels with Summer Tires (Not available for AWD)
HW -- Headlamp Washers with Cleaner
ML -- Mark Levinson Premium Audio Package with CD Changer with 14 Speakers
NV -- Nav System with 13 Speakers
PA -- Park Assist
PM -- Leather Power Seats (a.k.a. Premium Package)
PS -- PreCollision System (PCS) with Dynamic Radar Cruise Control (Not available for manual tranny)
SR -- Moonroof
Combined Accessories:
LD -- Premium Luxury Plus 17" AWD (headlamps, heated seats, wood, memory, illuminated scuff pads, leather)
LL -- Same as above, but for 17" RWD
LT -- Same as above, but for 18" RWD
PT -- Premium Plus (heated seats, wood, leather)
SM -- Performance Luxury (18" allows with summer tires, headlamps, Sports Suspension, memory, leather)
ST -- Performance Luxury Plus (All of the above with heated seats)
VN -- Nav System with Mark Levinson Audio Package
My opinion: Get the IS350, like lenscap suggested, slap on snow tires, and the VDIM will really help out correct most problems you'd have on snow/ice.
When the current IS was introduced, I thought one way to deal with the car's ride problems was to get a car with the 16" all-season touring tires, which was a no-cost "option" in the brochure - fat chance. No such cars were ever made available on the West Coast, by special order or otherwise, and I was not going to buy the car with 17" wheels and then spend another $1000 to find out if the ride could be fixed by making the swap.
The option list has that smell to it again - a base price of $30k for an IS250, but with nothing available at the dealer with an MSRP of less than $36k? Want to bet?
Looking for a car without options it seems you'll either have to get lucky or order. Kinda lame but common.
"Base price is $xx,xxx, but we don't want to build or ship a car without a sunroof, a premium package, and a ridiculously overpriced sound system. And if you're foolish enough to try to order one, we'll demand a triple non-refundable deposit, and make you feel like an idiot for asking." So the real base price is $5k more.
We did a 1500 mile round trip last year in our MB - great drive from Portland to Reno and back, deserted roads for the most part, high speeds, great weather - the car was beautiful, and so was the scenery, and WE NEVER HAD THE SOUND SYSTEM TURNED ON. This is true about 95% of the time - we drive, we talk, we look at what's going on around us - I may turn on the radio for traffic reports if we are in an urban situation, but I just don't need music when I'm driving. The moonroof in our car is only used to provide ventilation when it's parked - hardly worth $1100. So what? Well, watch how the early cars are equipped on the lot...and I'll have the tape recorder running when I go to "special order" a more basic car, so I can report back here the essence of the conversation.
It isn't just Lexus, though in my experience they are the worst offenders. All I want is a little honesty - if you only want to build and sell the car one way, fine - do it the Honda / Acura way: no factory options, just 2-3 basic trim levels that take in the whole gamut of what the factory wants to build. Each step up the ladder gets you more stuff, and you and the dealer both know what's what. And it cuts costs at the factory and actually allows both sides [buyer and seller] the opportunity for better pricing.
I know, I know....not in my lifetime....
I'd write Lexus a letter if I were you. Let them know what you want and that dealers are not responsive to you. I'd bet you get positive results.
Other makes are reluctant to order stripped or lightly option cars too. My bro-in-laws car had manual, sport and xenons. That's it. The dealer got it in, the guy back out and my bro-in-law scooped it up. It was perfect for him.
I agree about Acura style pricing. It certainly makes it easy to compare cars too. Does it have navi? No. Then it's X. Nice setup.
We purchased a 2006 GS300 AWD in March (for my wife), so I'm sure that didn't hurt.
I for one want every bell and whistle.
I put down $500.00 and have picked an IS350 in Glacier Frost Mica. It'll be loaded to the gills
CandD actually said it was so much better than the old IS it deserved to be renamed. (At the risk of offending old IS fans - don't shoot the messenger.)
Thanks, Kirstie, for the cleanup of the forum.
Tim