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Lexus IS 350 and IS 250

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Comments

  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Whether the Bimmer crowd likes it or not, the new IS will be a HUGE success. In fact, Lexus won't be able to keep up the demand for the IS350, that will be the problem Lexus will have.

    Yeah they'll sell multitudes of IS250s to the same badge hounds that scoop up 325i's and yet can't tell you the displacement of the engine. Basically, Camcord people who want to move up in "status" (as if a car can bestow that).
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    If the IS starts stealing a lot of sales away from the ES then it might happen - otherwise it will be around for a while. Lexus just can't kill it even if it doesn't fit in the lineup - just too much of a cash cow. Considering that the ES will get another model lifeline (ES350 based on the next Camry) -I can't se how Lexus would kill it off in the next 4-5 years at the earliest. Lexus could care less what combination of cars it takes at the entry level as long as they can sell 80-100k of them per year - I'm sure they wouldn't mind if they're all ISes

    Don't forget the ES330 is the bestselling car in Lexus' truck driven sales. They haven't been able to give away GSes, ISes and SCes for years. If not for the RX and ES, Lexus' sales would be flat.

    Don't bother mentioning other manufacturers...we're talking about Lexus (we all know about the 3 and the G for their brands).
  • Lots of snide stuff on here.

    I am personally disappointed because of the lack of room in the back seat. It is tiny. People without kids won't care, but for those of us with rugrats it does not provide sufficient space for even occasional taxi service. For this reason alone, this car will steal zero ES sales. Perhaps this comparison was intended sarcastically also, but I cannot see how these 2 cars can be compared at all.

    Toyo also screwed up by not offering the Euro diesel here. it is really irritating how car manufacturers manipulate the North American market.

    Looks like I will be keeping the 6-sp TSX....
  • biker4biker4 Posts: 746
    Entry level lux sedan is just that - something in the 30K range. When someone walks into a Lexus dealership in 3 months they'll have a real choice at that level. Yes the IS backseat is small compared to the ES but it's plenty big for small kids. There will definitely be sales going from the ES to the IS but only a small fraction.

    Biker, who thinks that the MY06 break down for entry level sedans at Lexus will be 60K ES and 40K IS.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Posts: 2,363
    Boy, this post got me upset. Badge hounds? I was driving BMWs and MBs before many of the people on this board [including Blue??] were born! I shouldn't have to explain or apologize because my interest is in a good car with 200 hp that gets around decently and has up-to-date safety features. Have never had a car with more than 220 hp, and don't need one now.

    Watch the insulting generalizations, guy. I'll stand my "enthusiast" credentials against anybody here, but that doesn't mean we all have to think like you.

    Bought one of the first BMW 1600s in 1966; first MB 220 in 1968 - 54 cars in total since 1962, including everything Japanese and German, multiple times over. I don't know when it became "necessary" to hit 60 mph in less than 7 seconds for a car to be considered quick enough and desireable enough. Likewise, I don't care about track performance and skidpad numbers, since I don't spend any time in either place.

    I thought the first IS wasn't up to the German standard [BMW 3er and MB C-Class] because it rode so stiffly on crappy pavement, not because it didn't go around corners fast enough or "handle". I've driven the E90, and think it's great, but would just as soon have an IS250 if they've done something about the stiff-legged suspension on the standard [non-sports package] car. Naturally, I'll never know from any road tests in the usual suspect publications - as pointed out by someone above, the car I'm interested in never gets tested for publication.

    Call me what you want - nut, enthusiast, crazy [all words from my long-suffering spouse] - but not a "badge hound" just because I don't need to spend $40k to be happy.

    OK?
  • quest3quest3 Posts: 33
    Absolutely right, I'm buying one. I wonder if there are people in the bmw forums constantly looking for every reason to bash the 3 series. Can we get a IS bashing forum and then have a forum for those of us excited about whats to come in a few months. The IS appears to be gorgeous exterior styling and very luxurious typical lexus look and feel interior, with according to reviews an incredible sound system, the latest on gadgets(some see this as good others bad, being you can't turn it off) with a good all around driving experience but falls short of the 3 series driving abilities. Well a Lexus still drives better than just about every other vehicle out there so I see it's review as a very good one. Only BMW drives like a BMW, there was only 1 Michael Jordan but Lebron James is pretty damn good too and in time will get better and better. How about talking about BMW's reliability compared to Lexus. BMW is a great driving machine but for me thats where it ends,and I own a 330 ci my accord ex feels more luxurious, looks more luxurious (interior, not exterior) and has been a hell of alot more reliable . I have no problem trading my 330 in this october for a awd IS250 with 204 hrspwr (since when is that not enough power) who am I racing, go back 5 yrs an a 200 hrspwr vehicle was fine last I checked they can still run at local speed limits, and 0-60 times come on people does that really matter to anyone not on a closed track, why why why??? Dont get me wrong I love my bimmer taking corners at high speeds is incredible but I'd like to see their engineers take the time to make their cars a bit more reliable Are they even in the 10 most reliable I'm asking cause i don't know but for their pricing they should be?? I really can't see test driving the IS in a few months and just being horrified by the driving experience. So according to edmunds it's not the 3 killa it was supposed to, well I won't lose any sleep after trading mine in. In my opinion I'm getting the better all around vehicle (In my opinion) key words. I don't care the 350 is an automatic (my wife can't drive a stick, that could be a selling point though for buying another manual)lol. theres to many safety gadgets messing with a pure enthuisists driving experience!! well I dont care about that either(I got a 7 yr old son and all the safety equipment in the world is still not enough when it comes to him in the car). This is th perfect blend of sporty styling, lexus luxury, reliability and driving satisfaction( once I drive it) that I am looking for. Only thing the would stop me from buying this car is if the 06 TL was AWD
  • quest3quest3 Posts: 33
    funny you said that about the bmw dealership. The first time I had to bring mine in I had it for only 1 month and the passenger window motor died with it down I had a plastice bag taped to the side of a brand new 02 330 ci but the service I got was horrible, definately not what I expected (but again this is my exerience I'm sure some owners have nothing but praise for their vehicles reliability and locals dealers services. but with the Lexus I'm going for the AWD 250 fully loaded, It snows alot where I'm at other wise I would ge tthe 350. good luck with your purchase
  • quest3quest3 Posts: 33
    Good article but for me its not the depreciation but the time in the shop that matters. And I seriously doubt the Sonata is in the same class of vehicle of Lexus/Bmw/Infiniti/ for that matter we can say the Porsche Carrera drives better than the 3 series. I'm not trading in or selling my vehicle until the wheels fall off which would be sooner on the bimmer than the Lexus. And Sonatas the most reliable car in America? Is that to include their warranties being so great or no [non-permissible content removed] the Sonata is more reliable? (haven't read the article) Reliability is most important to me but right beside that is styling/looks and that Sonata is not much of a looker (to me). I rather ride my cannondale to work. Further more and this is not directed to you but to all in general, what is so bad about the new IS? I can't call it I read and read and read all the post and you have those who think the bimmer is God's creation, those who love Lexus and those of us who read the bickering and think they are both great vehicles. The Is doesn't drive like a 3 and you can't turn off the VDIM. And that makes the Lexus what ? not worth it? In this category yes the 3 is the ultimate driving machine but I consider the Lexus to be the most luxurious and advanced and all around the better deal for me. not for you or him or the other guy. Just because the bimmer is more exhilarating to drive doesn't make me want it more, just like for others just because the Lexus is more luxurious and reliable( less time in the shop) does not make them want it more. It seem like bimmer owners are on here to just feed perspective Is buyers their propaganda as if buying the IS will be the worst mistake they ever made. This isn't gangland here its not the southside Bimmers battling the Lexus gangstas for turf. theirs plenty of room for both to survive and even enough for the Audi assassins and the Northside Infiniti boys. Their all no joke great vehicles
  • I thought the world 1st and 2nd most reliable cars are the Lexus SC and LS
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    This isn't gangland here its not the southside Bimmers battling the Lexus gangstas for turf.

    If you ever visit Toronto and see a Bavarian Lederhosen clad Al Capone eating Bratwurst---that guy would be me

    Are they even in the 10 most reliable I'm asking

    YES according to JD Power and IQS. BMW is #1 for customer satisfaction as a brand according to JD Power. I think Lexus is somewhere among the top ten :P

    Just because the bimmer is more exhilarating to drive doesn't make me want it more

    At least your honest, but I prefer exhilaration over boring luxury!

    I think we should start to focus more on the less exhilarating car than the exciting car before we provoke mass deletions from our host.
  • Seems like a lot of people are considering buying this car. Luxury, reliability, service, resale are all in Lexus's favor. Driving excitement, acceleration, road feel is not. I know Toyota can make a fun car. I have a 1993 TT supra, six speed manual that runs like a bat and has never had a service problem. I wish Lexus would make a 350 IS hardtop convertible, six speed manual. Something to compete with the Z. But Toyota seems satisfied to make cars for geezers.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Wait- did someone say the IS350 probably starts around $39k???? how are they expect to sell it?

    All indications point to a much lower starting price for the IS350. Try $35K tops. You should be able to get a fairly loaded IS350 at $40K. For me, I am looking at the IS350 with LL package, VN, and SR. That should be somewhere in the $40K price point +TTL. At least that's what I am expecting, but we'll see....If you want an IS350, get on the waiting list right about now, supply will be limited and demand will be high.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    The IS was never designed to be a 3-Series. It's a Lexus, and it would be silly for Lexus to ignore its heritage by making a sport sedan.

    Heritage? Heritage is something you get after 30-40-50 years. Lexus is a neophyte company.

    Lexus Execs said they would make a best in class sedan. If it doesn't outhandle/outperform a 330i on a road course, then it's not the best in class. most luxurious, maybe. fastest straightline - maybe. but best in class as promised by Lexus execs at the car's intro...seems not likely. So Lexus did in fact claim to want to dethrone BMW.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    jrct, i never wrote only badge hounds will buy IS250s...only that lexus will sell multitudes of them to badge hounds. big difference. I do my best to avoid saying things like "all" or "every" as that's a recipe for disaster on my part.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Posts: 2,363
    You were making a point that I just flat disagree with. I've heard this accusation from so-called purists of every make [I belong to all the clubs - I'm an ENTHUSIAST, not a purist].

    If you weren't slying putting down a bunch of people who were "settling" for an IS250 instead of the "real" IS, just what was the point?

    When I owned a 914, it wasn't enough of a "real Porsche"; the 325 is a car for "poseurs"; the W201, W202, W203 Mercedes [owned them all, but also owned every S-class before 1992] weren't "real Mercedes".

    Sure, there are people who buy every make and model for the "wrong reasons" - who gets to decide what the right reasons are, and why?

    Because I grew up overseas, learned to drive in small cars, still prefer EU driving sensibilities [and priorities] to American, I just don't get the obsession for hp that pervades this market. Everywhere but here, a weight-hp ratio of roughly 20:1 is good enough, as long as it is accompanied by reasonable fuel consumption.

    Here's where we part company: which BMW do I really want? which IS would I prefer?

    A: The diesels! Best combination of power and fuel consumption available, and BMW in particular makes some of the best in the world. Lexus will be selling the IS that way in Europe, as well.

    Must be a sure sign of something.....I'll let the marketing experts here decide...
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Here's where we part company: which BMW do I really want? which IS would I prefer?

    A: The diesels


    I would order an IS today if there was a diesel version. What fuel efficiency will Lexus offer? A heavy weighty IS that would not handle like a IS350 but sell at a at a 7 to 8k premium ! Thanks but no thanks!
  • car by Lexus. I wished they would start making them.
  • nyaonyao Posts: 2
    So, based on the history of success:

    BMW: Keep making 3
    Infiniti: Keep dressing up Z
    Lexus: Keep dressing up the Camry and forget about the sports car!

    Hyundai: Keep the Sonata more reliable than toyota, and dress it up you will have a Lexus killer!
  • mvs1mvs1 Posts: 462
    A hybrid version of the IS350 follows later in 06', early 07'. While this version will carry a premium, price erosion should take effect within the next few years for this technology.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    I would take edmunds.com acceleration figures with a 40 lb bag of salt- they're numbers are the slowest I've seen published, slower in most circumstances than even Consumer Reports. Ex- Car and Driver can get the new Sonata V6 to 60 in 7 flat, as did I believe Motor Trend, and yet Edmunds.com need 8.2 seconds. Thats far too excessive even accounting for vehicle to vehicle variences.

    Wait for a real enthusiast publication to run track testing.

    ~alpha
  • sortersorter Posts: 146
    "As I have said before it's obvious you should just stick with a BMW showroom! "

    He can't. There is nothing good to say about this "NEW" 3, and he fore sure are not going to bring up the other losers like X3. It is much easier to say bad thing about Lexus though.

    There are a few of those Lexus Haters around here... is it rule to ask them to get out?
  • quest3quest3 Posts: 33
    Not directed at just you but all the haters I'm just really intrigued Why are you (and anyone else in here downing the Lexus) so personally insulted by the people in here who love Lexus or are about to give them a shot and can't wait to buy the new IS? What cause are you fighting for? Do you get a percentage of the 3 series sales? perhaps a bonus for every IS potential buyer you sway over to BMW? It's like (BMW lovers myself excluded cause oh yes I do love mine but I wasn't branded into the secret order and told you must never like another vehicle again and must put down anyone who tries to compete with it, I must have missed that when buying my 330) I just can't call it. All these #'s going back and forth about what company sold this many vehicles and so on what vehicle isn't worth anything, they can't push this, people are actually doing research on how many sales were made on each model!! Holy crap is it that big a deal (yes I know buying a car is a big deal), before the haters start up again?.. People constantly laying into Lexus as if they were the worse cars ever made, no my bad (lets see geezer's vehicles, questioning their reliability, and luxury and so on). I understand it's a forum to talk about the IS good or bad. But it's like the Lexus haters are wild beast waiting to prey on any positive word written about the Lexus product.

    We get it, it was supposed to topple the 3 series and according to its first reviews it doesn't drive like a bimmer. **News flash** the majority of IS potential buyers are still going to buy it myself included and I'm just trying to find out Why does that make you 3 lovers so mad or feel like you have to prove some type of point. I personally wasn't buying it because oh its the great 3 killa, sure it would be great if it drove like a 3 but I guess it don't.
    but every thing else about the car is as good or better (thats what I got from it). I'll be at the dealership before they open to pick up mine on that day and it's my 2002 330 thats getting traded in (would trade the wifes 03 accord but I think I'll keep the one thats been alot more reliable so my bimmer is history) oh crap!! I have dishonered the secret society of 3, breaking rule #1 one, help me their coming to kill me now . And I'm far from being a geezer, my bimmer wasn't very reliable, and I happen to love the Lexus interior styling of all their vehicles. "The majority of Lexus sales are related to camry-based low end vehicles" Hmm? SO WHAT. I personally don't care how many of what model was sold the IS is hot as hell loooking, looks gorgeous inside and as long as it's not in the shop after a month of owning it like my bmw was I'll be very happy with it. Can we get a forum for the haters and one just for those of us who are waiting for the car with open garage's. It's ok IS I still want you don't listen to the mean bmw drivers
  • sunilbsunilb Posts: 407
    A hybrid version of the IS350 follows later in 06', early 07'. While this version will carry a premium, price erosion should take effect within the next few years for this technology.

    Check out Sunday's NYTimes, they test drive a Lexus 400h and find that it doesn't get significantly better gas mileage, but it does have better performance.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,890
    Some of you may find that you no longer have posting privileges in this topic due to consistent off-topic conversation, about which I have posted numerous warnings.

    The title of this discussion has changed, and I expect conversation to focus specifically on the upcoming IS 350. This topic is not about Lexus vs. BMW vs. whatever brand wars, or Lexus sales in general.

    If you find that you are still able to post, please note that your status is subject to change without notice if off-topic conversation persists.

    Thank you, and let's enjoy talking more about the upcoming IS 350.

    MODERATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
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  • biker4biker4 Posts: 746
    And the IS250 that most folks will be buying will be talked about.....where?

    Do prospective IS250 buyers get a more civilized thread as oposed to this heated one?

    Seems to me that a 2006+ IS general thread would be ideal - the heated discussions that don't belong can be taken out.

    Biker, who would like to see a single IS thread. :shades:
  • I have an 2001 IS 300 now and will be purchasing an IS350. I'm first on the waiting list at the local Lexus dealer.

    I feel Lexus addressed every issue I had with my current IS: More Power, updated features, true Lexus interior, ML Sound System, controls on the steering, keyless entry, iPod (AUX) connection.

    I'm glad the negative comments will no longer be tolerated. I can appreciate everyone opinions, but many of the comments started to get out of hand and way off topic.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 29,140
    I think you misunderstand...

    Negative comments about the IS350 can be made at any time...

    Negative comments about other posters and that are off topic may not be tolerated...

    I didn't want you to get your hopes up..

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Still no pricing. Maybe the end of August?
  • Just read the new Car and Driver and they test drove the preproduction IS350 in Japan. They had nothing but praise for the car and said it has everything from proformance and handling to luxury and a great ride. They also said power delivery was "instant and Progressive, offering a far more compelling experience than its predecessor. We hit an indicated 165 in the IS 350 and 149 in the IS250."

    From reading it, sounds like IS is a winner and they really liked it. Of course you'll never actually know until they are in production and you go drive one, but looks very promising.

    They also used an unofficial stopwatch to clock 0-62 in 5.9 seconds.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Still no pricing. Maybe the end of August?

    Pricing is expected to be released August 20th.
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