BMW 5-Series: Next E60

pearl · July 2006

a face and fanny "lift" next Spring (to be introduced as an 08 model). Anyone else got any info on this?

shipo · July 2006

I saw a picture a few months back that purports to be of a "lifted" E60. If it turns out to be even remotely accurate, then I will be converted from someone who isn't even remotely fond of the E60 to one who actually likes it. Go figure.

FWIW, I believe I have the picture at home so of you drop me a private E-Mail, I'll send it to you (assuming that I can find it). ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

bdkinnh · August 2006

Is this it? http://www.leftlanenews.com/wp-content/plugins/iimage-gallery.php?idpost=2741&id- g=1&idi=1

I like it better than the current version, but I think the rear end looks a bit like a Taurus.

shipo · August 2006

Yup, that's it. I still don't like it as much as my E39, but it is WAY better that the unlifted E60 (in my eyes of course). ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

pearl · August 2006

Thanks, Shipo...just saw the link above with the magazine cover version of the updated E60. I agree with you - this one could make me trade my E39. It is slightly reminiscent of the new 3 series and eliminates the "stuck on butt" of the current E60, and softens the "eyebrows". I presume this will likely come in 528, 535 and 550 versions with the revised sixes and 4.8L V8. Probably will push 60K for even the "lesser" versions, but no doubt will be a great car. I hope they also take the opportunity to ditch the I-drive while they are at it - that would definitely clinch it for me.

srfast · August 2006

The E60 exterior is looking better, but the interior is still too sparse for me. I like my 2003 530i because of the classic lines and even though there are no "real" gauges, there are enough displays and buttons to make the dash & center console look nice.

Regards...JL

div2 · August 2006

If Munich would return to a driver oriented interior, I could see myself in an E60. I wish BMW would adopt a glass cockpit and allow you to choose the displays you want to monitor.

jb_shin · August 2006

I am still not quite taken with E60. I think I actually like the facelifted 7-series better. I am thinking which would make more sense, trade the M5 in and get the new M3 (no more 529 contribution :P ), or turn my M5 into something like (probably for less):

Crazy M5

cmybimmergo · August 2006

I agree...the facelifted e60 beats the original e60, but it still has that puffy steroidal look. The earlier generations are just so much more streamlined.

I also agree about the new 7...I recently came up on one from behind, and while my first impression (from far away) was that it was a bimmer, I didn't really believe it until I got close to it, because my reaction was "oooh what's THAT? I like it!" and I haven't ever liked the 7.

jb_shin · August 2006

The Automobile magazine reported in their latest issue that those pictures posted above (or was it a link?) will be for the E60 replacement model. Then again, magazines don't always get it right.

markcincinnati · August 2006

Wide track excitement. . .Pontiac.

They jus' can't break outta that mold.

OK OK, I got it, Pontiac is the father and Hyundai is the mother.

Yechhhh!

Eye of the beholder.

Just as I was gettin' used to the current 5. . . . :surprise:

lzc · August 2006

When is the next E60 expected? I'd read, somewhere on a BMW thread here, that a facelift was expected in spring 2007 as a 2008 model. But my barber had a car mag (sorry, didn't pay attention to which one) that featured the new 2009 model.

low_ball_88 · August 2006

The picture of new E60 rear end reminds me of the Hundai Sonata...That is sooooo ugly! The front is like the new 3 series...Nothing special. The current E60 design (original) is still far superior, especially the way the headlights look. The NEW E60 headlights look chopped off at the ends.

I guess BMW is following the others (Lexus, MBZ, Infiniti) and have the line up of cars all look the same from the smallest to the largest vehicle. Just pick your size. How generic!

JMHO

designman · August 2006

And the Sonata looks way better IMO. Thankfully those images of the 5-series that have been circulating are only illustrations and don't come from BMW. So let's not get our Fruit of the Looms in a twist just yet.

I think the exterior styling of the 3-coupe, X5 and 7 are improvements. Maybe the 5 will follow suit.

low_ball_88 · August 2006

For the price, Sonata is good deal.

Oh designman, before I continue, let me get the Fruit-O-Loom wedgy out of my cr@ck. LMAO

As for the:
3 coupe - bland
Redesigned x5 - 3 series on stilts, just look at the front end and tail lights
7 - you got me there, it is pretty nice except for the bland front end, the rear is a nice change.

warthog · August 2006

"I guess BMW is following the others (Lexus, MBZ, Infiniti) and have the line up of cars all look the same from the smallest to the largest vehicle. Just pick your size."

Actually, BMW has done that for years.

low_ball_88 · August 2006

That is why I like the current 5. It does not fit the mold. Now others are copying it. Look at the Lexus lineup and the Toyota Camry. They now all have the Bangle rump. BMW and MBZ have always been the design leaders. Just hate to see that the whole lineup all look similar.

JMHO

manybmws · September 2006

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/GeneralFuture/articleId=116690

I think this may happen versus a minor update in '08. Looks like it will get streamlined on the outside and the inside will connect the dash to the rest of the console which are both good things. The E60 has been viewed right from the start as a controversial design as everyone knows and BMW can't wait to bring the 5-series car back into celebrity status like the E39 was to boost sales. I am putting my order on a 535xi

pearl · September 2006

Let's hope that BMW dumps the I-drive while they are at it. They should buy a new Lexus with Gen 5 Nav and copy that, or similar. Perpetuating I-Drive in the face of nearly universal criticism for the past five years would be absurd.

uglybear · January 2007

BMW sales are up. So they are listening to customers, not to magazine reviewers. Although I am not fan of iDrive, I sometimes feel that magazine reviewers are simply computer-retarded old farts that keep dreaming of the "golden days of their youth".

Customers vote with money and if sales are up even with weak dollar, mayb BMW is right ignoring c&D and others.

achonko · January 2007

"When is the next E60 expected? I'd read, somewhere on a BMW thread here, that a facelift was expected in spring 2007 as a 2008 model. But my barber had a car mag (sorry, didn't pay attention to which one) that featured the new 2009 model".

The E60 facelift is due to hit show rooms in the Spring of 2007 as a MY 2008.
The F10, will be sold as MY 2009 in the Spring of 2008.

"BMW sales are up. So they are listening to customers, not to magazine reviewers. Although I am not fan of iDrive, I sometimes feel that magazine reviewers are simply computer-retarded old farts that keep dreaming of the "golden days of their youth.
Customers vote with money and if sales are up even with weak dollar, mayb BMW is right ignoring c&D and others.

Most Car critics are not tech savvy, and at best comfortable with Cars that are elemental in nature. The IDrive is perceived to be complex, however I find it simple to use, and my wife also finds it very easy to use as well.
The design of the 5 series albeit controversial, is modern and stands out from the rest of the traffic. I think the 5 series and the 7 series has revitalised car designs that were otherwise boring.

texases · January 2007

I've not criticized iDrive (until now) because, even though the mags made a convincing case that it's a mistake, I had no first-hand knowledge. Just got back from a drive with a client, who went on for 20 minutes about how he, and his friends with BMWs, hate it. I'm sure there are folks that do o.k. with it, but I won't be one. A shame, I've finally got to the point of buying a 530, wanted one since '80, now I don't want one...

pearl · January 2007

Edmunds and others have discussed the new BMW "F10" as a possible E60 replacement in 2009, featuring softened "Banglisms" and other improvements. At the same time, BMW has just announced the new 2008 E60/5 series (see future vehicles on the bmwusa.com site for details and pics), which feature some, but not all of the postulated changes. It would seem strange for BMW to make so many changes to the 08 5 Series, then replace it a year later. This is not in keeping with their philosophy (see E39) in which the overall design runs about seven or eight years. It would seem that the 08 5 series is the "mid-point" refresh, and that any all new 5 series won't show up until the 2011/12 timeframe; therefore, the "F10" may be the 08 5 series. Anyone have other info?

designman · January 2007

The external facelift is virtually imperceptible. But, the thing that caught my attention is that there is no mention of a manual transmission for the 528 and 535 in the Overview and Press Release on the BMW website. It refers only to the new standard automatic and optional automatic, yet there is distinct mention of MT with the 550. Should we entertain negative thoughts, or is it just an error of omission due to the nature (lack of detail) of the announcements? The way it reads is suspicious.

shipo · January 2007

I cannot imagine BMW not offering a manual gearbox in the 5er, especially after the hue and cry that went out about the SMG only M5. At this point, I don't think it's anything to worry about.

Best Regards,
Shipo

uglybear · January 2007

Well... why did they buy BMWs then? I think you should try iDrive yourself first. As I said, I am not a big fan of it, but it's OK. In 2006-2007 models you can program 2 steering wheen buttons to quickly call up functions you use most often, like radio, for example. You can also use voice activation. In 2008 model you can program six custom buttons, so all this 'too many menus' thing does not matter much anymore. Or ask dealer to program them for you at delivery.

banglenot · January 2007

Had several 5's and second E60 with an '07 bought a few weeks ago.

I agree with uglybear and achonko. Please, if someone can't tell the difference between a 5 series and a Pontiac/Hundai or whatever, they should buy the Pontiac/Hundai. They'd be wasting their money on one of the finest driving cars ever made. Rattle around in the Pontiac/Hundai and enjoy it. Really.

I've tested the relevant MB, Audi, Lexus and Infiniti's. They have their individual advantages but none drive as well as the BMW. Steering and braking are simply not anywhere near as good in the comparable price ranges. Drift around a curve in your BMW and see when the wheels start to break loose. Do the same in your non-BMW and have fun among the trees and brush.

For the record, I'm in my mid 50's. Idrive is easy, and has improved over the years. They needed certain idrive design improvements and are making many of them in the upcoming redesign -- more programmable and one-function buttons, for example.

The bluetooth connection to my blackberry 8700 is smooth and effective; the included voice recognition works fine. My wife needs an auto tranny so I have the Step -- but in manual mode it does quite well and revs nicely to 6500 with good torque and HP.

Having owned E39's, I've never been in love with Bangle's designs (hence my screen name), but note that virtually every other car company is following it and sales are up. BMW led with a mold-breaking design and I'm giving them credit for that. I'll also give them credit for re-evolving certain items, like Idrive and replacing the window controls where they belong. The cupholders are crap and the weird storage compartments never made much sense, but that's pretty much been the case with BMW's forever. The E39, though possibly the best reasonably-priced sedan ever made, was getting tired.

That said, nothing else out there drives like a 5. So, not to be too harsh, if they don't like it, they should buy something else. My vote is that the redesign as described on the bmwusa website is making some good choices.

Oh, BTW, did I mention the handling?

banglenot · January 2007

"glass cockpit"

Now that would be nice.

sixpaqs · January 2007

Not to worry, the entire 528i, 535i, and 550i will all be available with the 6 speed manual. I read it in their press release. They are just making a big deal out of this sport automatic transmission, which I hope is not another name for that SMG thing, which is horrible, imo.

achonko · January 2007

I stand to be corrected. The F01 (7 series) and not the F10 (5 series) is due to be released as MY 2009 in 2008.
The F10 will be released in 2009 as a MY 2010 product.
My apologies for the misinformation.

skobola · January 2007

Are you sure? Per BMW's math, the new 5-series should get out as 2011, as they have a 7-year cycle, which makes the 7-series introduction correct as well.

exis350 · February 2007

What exactly does "going into production in March" actually mean? That they'll be available in March? That they're being built and won't be available until April/May?

shipo · February 2007

Usually the latter.

achonko · February 2007

My source still believes the F10 is due for debut in 2009.

kelf · February 2007

We love this feature.

jvergara · March 2007

I'm considering leasing a 535i through European delivery...any info of when pricing should be available?
Thanks

achonko · March 2007

535i MSRP = $49,400
535i ED Wholesale Base Price is $42,265
535i ED Suggested Retail Price is $45,940
ZSP = $2800, ZPP= $2100
Destination & Handling = $775, Dealer Preparation = $180
Most Dealers would want to charge you the Suggested Retail ED Price, but you should be able to get the Wholesale Base ED Price.

bruceomega · March 2007

I just looked at the brochure for the 2008 5 series, after downloading it from a link posted by someone (but can't remember the thread).

One item that caught my attention in quickly scanning through the brochure is the weight and weight distribution. Compared to the specs on the BMW web site for 2007 model, I found:

535Xi Weight 3946
530Xi Weight 3671

535Xi Weight distribution 53.4 / 46.6
530Xi Weight distribution 52 / 48

Assuming the information in the brochure I downloaded is correct, I was very surprised to see the weight gain and less desireable distribution of the upcoming model compared to the present one.

Bruce

jvergara · March 2007

Thanks achonko for your response. Great info. Any about expected lease terms?

achonko · March 2007

I am afraid I do not have information on the Lease rates.

bruceomega · March 2007

achonko, anyone,

Have you seen the brochure on the 2008 5 series for which a link was posted elsewhere in CarSpace?

According to that, and the BMW web site, the 535i / 535Xi gained some weight compared to the 530i / 530Xi, and the weight distribution of the 535Xi is not as balanced as the 530Xi. I was wondering if you know whether the information in the brochure is correct?

The weight penalty of the 530Xi over the 530i is 177 pounds, while the penalty for a 535Xi versus a 535i is 286 pounds. I don't understand why the delta for the 2008 AWD is 109 pounds more than it was for the 2007 AWD. Do you know if they changed the AWD design / layout?

The weight gain in switching to the twin turbo engine is implied to be 166 pounds (535i vs 530i).

Ironically, the 535Xi is only 22 pounds lighter than the 550i, and the weight distribution is not as balanced (I realize this is comparing AWD to RWD, but it still surprised me).

Thanks
Bruce

achonko · March 2007

The new xDrive system in the E70 X5 is also making its way down to the 535xi. It differs from the old xDriven and is purported to be better than the last generation.
Unfortunately all of these advancements come with a weight penalty.

If you note the weight gain from the 330i to the 335i was 200lbs, whilst the weight gain from the 530i to 535i like you pointed out is 166lbs. There is definitely significant attempt to reduce the weight but the new xDrive system offset the weight saved.

One of the problem is that the E60 chassis was never designed with the xDrive in mind whereas the F10 and F01/02 chassis will address these shortcomings.

An interesting article on one of the features of the new xDrive system.

Selective Control Intervention

The xDrive four-wheel drive system, DSC electronic control system and engine control through integrated chassis management(FlexRay technology) are combined for fast distribution of the drive torque in the longitudinal direction.
Meanwhile, further development of Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) has seen the introduction of Selective Control Intervention. During tight cornering it actively counteracts the tendency to understeer. This control intervention, which is also active when DSC is switched off, will initially be introduced from March 2007 in the four-wheel drive models of the new BMW 5-Series. Other models and model series from the BMW brand will follow.

If a vehicle tends to understeer when cornering, the current DSC system increases the braking pressure on the nearside rear wheel in order to generate a stabilising yaw moment. That action remains identical on the new system, but now engine torque can now increased independently of the position of the accelerator. This can generate an additional stabilising torque of up to 500Nm.

The torque compensation when the engine is running at partial load contributes to increasing the precision of the steering manoeuvres, tracking stability and traction when cornering. This is because the system enables the car to respond faster to the course determined by the driver, and steering corrections are less frequently required. The vehicle follows the path of the curve at constant speed despite the stabilising braking intervention.

bruceomega · March 2007

Interesting. Thank you. Didn't realize there was a new version of X-Drive.

strataprop · March 2007

Here is the link to the BMW 2008 5 Series brochure from another forum:

http://aronkober.com/Documents/08%205%20Brochure.pdf

BMW 5-Series: Next E60

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