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Toyota Camry Brakes

24

Comments

  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    My old Volvo 240 had a recommended change interval for brake fluid at 3 years, or 45K miles, whichever came first. That still seems reasonable to me, and agrees with what imacmil stated.

    Speaking of chain auto repair outlets, I had an "interesting" experience with Merchants, a chain in the DC area. This was with the Volvo 240, and I took it in for the advertised special $18.88 front-end alignment. (I knew the car needed it because the right front tire was wearing unevenly.)

    Anyway, they "inspected" the car and told me it needed something like $700 worth of repairs. I knew this was b.s. because some of the work included replacing the main radiator hoses, which I had recently done myself! I told them just do the $18.88 alignment, thank you!

    Outfits like this must salivate when they see an old car coming in!
  • marc781marc781 Member Posts: 25
    I flush out the fluid, more or less, whenever i do the brakes and have to bleed them. I just keep bleeding til the fluid comes out clean.

    Every 6 months or so i suck the old fluid out of the reservoir with a 99 cent turkey baster, and then top it up. This gets most of the dirt out of the res.

    Between doing these things the brake fluid stays pretty clean and the work is minimal. I dont believe there's really much need to flush unless the brakes have been really neglected. Or the fluid is just very old and filthy. And i'm certainly not paying a shop to do it. As long as i have at least one foot left to push the brake pedal and $10 for brake fluid.
  • ray_h1ray_h1 Member Posts: 1,134
    "I dont believe there's really much need to flush unless the brakes have been really neglected."

    Brake fluid supplied by car manufacturers is most often a synthetic polyglycol - technically an alcohol. As such, it will readily mix with water. Water does two things - lowers the boiling point, and promotes corrosion in the metal brake lines. While a car's hydraulic system is nominally sealed, moisture still manages to enter over time. A complete hydraulic brake line flush should be done with fresh fluid at least every three years, but, preferably every two years. The following hydraulic fluid designations are mutually compatible and suitable in the vast majority of cases:

    DOT3
    DOT4
    DOT5.1

    These are all polyglycols and are miscible with each other without fear of chemical or physical instability. DOT3 and DOT4 fluids are commonly available at any autoparts emporium. DOT5.1 is not generally used in most domestic and Asian manufactured vehicles (which are usually factory filled with DOT3 brake fluid - though ALWAYS check your owner's manual's recommendation), but is increasingly common as the recommended brake fluid in higher end European makes. (the stuff's pretty pricey, too...) Each numerical step in the hierarchy designates a higher boiling point and consequently more reliable performance in extreme situations such as mountain driving or competition. However, do NOT use one particular specialized fluid, "DOT5" in systems not originally filled with it or converted over to use it. DOT5 is a silicone-based fluid that is NOT compatible with polyglycols.
  • tallen23tallen23 Member Posts: 3
    Our Camry has recently developed the disturbing habit of engaging the VSC (I think) in sharp curves under what I would describe as normal driving conditions. It has 32K miles on it and has always had what I would call a hitch in the braking action that I attribute the the ABS system. I've tolerated the braking but this VSC issue or whatever it is, is very disconcerting. It feels as if someone has knocked the car down from drive to low range....

    if anyone has had experience with this or a similar issue please comment, we will be taking the car to our local dealer next week and I would like to be as informed as possible prior to going.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    What is the "hitch" in the braking action?

    Also, do you know for sure if the VSC is activating?

    Maybe you can experiment in an empty parking lot at lower speeds to see what happens. (Just watch out for light poles and self-important security guards.)
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Sounds like your yaw sensor, lateral accelerometer, may have come loose from its "moorings", maybe even internal to the "chip" itself.
  • tallen23tallen23 Member Posts: 3
    thanks for the reply...

    I am not sure how else to explain it, it seems to occur most often when slowing from higher speeds, i.e. exiting a highway where rapid deceleration is required, but it does not happen every time. When "it" happens the pedal feel is odd with some intermittent feedback different than anything I have driven in the past. I know very well what the engagement of the ABS system feels like when braking slippage occurs and while that is not what this is, I have to think it is still an ABS related issue.

    As far as the VSC...the only thing I have to indicate that the VSC is activating is a quick series of beeps that sound as the car feels as if it has been knocked into low range. Apparently, this has happened many times to the wife who first complained of this over a month ago...(I sent her to the dealership) When it happened as I was driving recently, I was so taken aback that I didn't notice any dashboard lights, I was busy staying on the road and shifting into neutral to relieve the high revving of the motor...I coasted a few feet through the curve, shifted back to drive and the car drove normally.

    The dealer told my wife that this was occurring due to the tires being worn to their service limits...I chalked this up to BS and him wanting to sell a set of tires, but the tires are pretty much shot (original Mich MXV's @ 32K) and in fact, I am replacing them tonight. I have a hard time believing this is playing a role in the problem.
  • tallen23tallen23 Member Posts: 3
    thanks for the response...I'll investigate this "yaw sensor, lateral accelerometer angle, check out my reply to the other post.
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    if you had beeping, that was the vsc indicating it was engaging. i imagine you'd have both engine derating and also wheel brake modulation.

    what's interesting is you reporting an RPM/engine race. probably to derate output they do some interesting transmission control stuff very fast.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    If your tires are worn down AND assuming the car is for some reason downshifting severely then what you might be experiencing is ABS activation due to a combination of engine compression braking and actual braking. Since ABS cannot alleviate the effects of engine compression braking the "feel" will undoubtedly be unusual.

    The effect would be more noticeable in a tight decelerating turn due to the additional lateral forces acting on your (worn) front tire treads.

    Also don't forget that your car has automatic brake force distribution which of itself can provide weird "feel" at times.

    Your core, base, problem may be the fact that the transaxle is seemingly downshifting inappropriately during those "rapid deceleration" episodes.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Well, please let us know if things improve with the new tires. If the old tires were worn down to the wear bars (1/16-in of tread remaining), then it wouldn' surprise me if the tires had a lot to do with the problems you've been experiencing.
  • yelkenliyelkenli Member Posts: 4
    I have a 94 Camry LE, and the 'brake' warning light on the dash comes on intermittantly. this is the light that is turned on when the parking brake is engaged. When the light comes on, cruise control disengages. this is the normal behaviour when the brake pedal is depressed, or the parking brake hand lever is raised. I have a repair manual, but it does not show the location of the parking brake electrical switch. I would like to check that out first. does anyone have any schematics? has anyone seen this problem before (maybe related to out of adjustment brake drums or parking brake)? Thanks.
  • ladycamladycam Member Posts: 1
    I have not seen this problem addressed, and am really hoping someone can tell me what's going on because my brakes are scary. If I try to stop my Camry suddenly, the car behaves on concrete as if it were stopping on loose gravel. The brakes grab hold as if to stop, and then when I least expect it, the wheels start rolling forward again. I have to drive extremely defensively because if I get into a situation where I have to stop hard to avoid a collision, I know the car won't respond properly. I've never had this problem on any other vehicle. I had my adult son replace both front and back brake shoes and pads, but that did nothing to solve the problem. I've tried to explain this to my local Toyota dealer's service dept., and they've tested the brakes, and found nothing wrong. I'm pretty sure they're not stomping the brake peddle as if to avoid an accident. The brakes are fine in routine stopping. It's when I need them most that they're not reliable. What can this be?
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    What year is your Camry, and do you know if it has antilock brakes? (These became standard in the 2005 model year, and were optional from 1997-2004.)
  • evilrudyevilrudy Member Posts: 1
    On my 2002 Camry LE V6 - I could not break the nut that holds the rotors to the axel on either side of the car. I used a breaker bar with a cheater bar (piece of pipe) on the end and still no movement. Could this be a left handed thread??? If it is I'll be so stupid, because I've really tightened this nut now. No spray lubricants so far are helping to loosen. I can find no info from Toyota. :sick:
  • jk2005jk2005 Member Posts: 2
    I have a 2004 Camry with ABS - 46K miles on it. I am a conservative driver and can be considered to drive under normal conditions - no hard braking, stop & start etc.

    I need your input/opinion on what I am now classifying as a brake issue. When I apply my brakes, they don't squeal (to indicate brake pad replacement time) but the car does not stop well either. It comes to stop very slowly (gently) and I have to be careful since the stopping is not instantaeous (defensive driving). Do you folks think it is a brake pad replacement issue or something else that I need ?

    The current brake pads are the OEM pads that came when I bought the car new in 2004. I have never changed them till date.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    You need to get the car checked out at a shop to see what's going on. It could be the pads, but there may be a more serious issue.

    You say it doesn't stop as readily as it used to?

    You don't have to go back to the dealer since you're out of warranty on the brakes -- an independent shop will do. Check with friends, relatives, or co-workers for a reputable shop.
  • jk2005jk2005 Member Posts: 2
    yes it dosen't stop as readily as used to. My initial reaction was that ..oh, the pads may have been worn out but after going through the forums I reckoned that it should make a squealing noise. So I was wondering if anyone had come across this. being a car novice, I wanted to get mentally prepared if there could be other issues or if I was making a big deal out of it.

    Any opinion on Pep Boys...just moved to a different city and hence don't have any independant shop recommendation.

    Thanks for your help.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    I tend not to trust the chains like Pep Boys, Sears, Midas, and the tire stores. I think I'd take it to a dealer in your case then. Maybe you could find out which Toyota dealer has the best reputation, especially for service?

    You can always get a second opinion if the price seems exorbitant.
  • aldytaldyt Member Posts: 6
    If I didn't get VSC option on my Camry 07 LE, is it still possible to get that added by visitor Toyota's shop?
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    No, it has to be built that way at the factory.
  • just_tiredjust_tired Member Posts: 11
    I have a 1993 Toyota Camry. This is an old clunker handed down to me from someone. So far I have ended up spending about 6000 dollars on the car since I purchased it in Dec 2005. I have replaced the transmission and the timing belt. The tires, the wiper blades and finally the engine.

    The car has failed inspection this year. The mechanic has suggested me to replace all the four brake calipers. The price quoted on the calipers is around 220 dollars a piece + a labor charge. The invoice price is around 1200 dollars.

    Is this the right price for replacing the brake calipers?i>
  • geffengeffen Member Posts: 278
    I've test drove a few Camry's a 2005 and 2006 and both had light braking, where you come in for a stop it seems that you do not stop when you should, which made be drive the Camry much slower and i slowed down well before coming into an intersection, is this normal with the Camry's? or maybe the two i test drove had bad brakes?
  • teamtboteamtbo Member Posts: 78
    If it has new brake pads, it could be that they are not broken in yet. Just a thought. I experienced the same issue on my 07 Tacoma and 07 Camry. Once I broke them in, I saw a dramatic improvement in stopping power.

    But now that I think about it, the 2005 and 2006 are pretty new to require new brake pads...so there may be some other issue.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    I have a 2004 Camry with 44K miles and a 2005 Camry with 20K miles. Neither has had any brake or stopping problems, and there's plenty of pad thickness left on the brake pads (ditto the linings on the rear drums of the '04).
  • geffengeffen Member Posts: 278
    I'll have to test drive some more Camry's the brakes not stopping the way they should is sort of swaying me away from Camry, most other cars i've driven always stopped when they should not that I always stop on a dime however I do prefer firm brake pedals and want to stop when the light is red, it very well could be both used Camrys i test drove had brake problems.
  • ja5573ja5573 Member Posts: 14
    Hi, I was involved in nasty situation where I lent my 05 Camry to a friend for a driving test and he left parking brake on after he finished the test. I don't use parking brake at all so I drove it for 5-6 miles at 30-40 mph max without knowing it was applied.

    Just what kind of damage should I expect from this mishap? I didn't see any smoke and after I stopped my car, I thought I smell something but it was extremely hot that day so I could be over-reacting.

    J
  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    Most likely not much, given the relatively short distance.

    After everything cools, just check to make sure the parking brake will apply, hold the vehicle, and release again. And also feel during regular braking that you don't have any pulsation that might occur if the rotor became warped.
  • ja5573ja5573 Member Posts: 14
    Thanks for the quick reply. I really appreciate it. When you say 'pulsation', do you mean like trembling?

    Regards
    J
  • ja5573ja5573 Member Posts: 14
    Regarding my earlier posting, I took a precaution and took it to nearby maintenance shop. The mechanic is now telling me that I need to replace rotor as well as bake shoes in total at least 400 dollars. Should I listen to this guy???

    J
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Probably not. I assume you told him what happened and $$$ signs appeared in his eyes.

    I think kiawah had good advice: does the car brake normally, and do the parking brakes hold on a hill if the transmission is placed in neutral?

    The '05 Camry uses disk brakes at all 4 wheels with integral small drum brakes for the parking brakes in the rear wheels. I can't see how the rotors would have been affected unless the parking brake was very firmly set. But then, you would have noticed that the car wasn't accelerating correctly.
  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    Hard to say, without looking at the parts. I've enclosed a picture of the rear brake/rotor in the link below to help you....most of the times it easier if you can visualize what is happening.

    The rear rotors have a caliper on them, which is your normal braking. Hydralic fluid makes these work, when you press on the brake pedal. Inside the rotor on the inside of the hub, is a set of small brake shoes which perform the parking brake function. These shoes are expanded and applied via a brake cable attached to the parking brake pedal. This is required because you can't easily 'lock' hydralic fluid.

    So in your case you had applied the parking brake, and drove for a couple miles. There are two types of problem that this could have caused. First is that you could have worn down the brake shoes, so that it was metal to metal and you grind the inside surface of that rotor. You'd only be able to tell by taking it apart and visually inspecting the surface. If the shoes were wore down, then you'd need to replace them. If the drum was scored, then I'd probably replace them since rotors are cheap (if you do it yourself). But the reality is even if the drum was scored, not sure you'd need to replace it since scoring only would impact parking brake ability "if the drum was turning". Since 'normally' the drum isn't turning, even if scored it probably isn't a problem. Since you don't normally use your parking brake anyhow, not sure this would be a big deal (except for the shoes worn down to nothing).

    The second thing that could have been damaged is from heat. The parking brakes applied would create heat if driven, and that heat would get transferred to the rotor, and out to the working area where the regular braking system works underneath the caliper. Excessive heat would cause the metal to warp (if really had enough heat), and you would feel that when you put on your regular brakes and you'd get a pulsation up and down in the pedal when you applied the brakes. The pulsation or grabbing would occur with every tire rotation so it would start out fast, and slow down as the car slowed. If you have this pulsation, then the rotors would need to be replaced.

    Again, I'd be surprised if you had damage, but it is conceivable. To know whether you actually have damage, takes an inspection of the parts, or if you are feeling the pulsation then you know you have warped rotor problem.

    As to costing $400 for someone to do, I can't speak to that since I typically would do all this type of work myself.

    Gen 5 Rear Disc
  • dchen2003dchen2003 Member Posts: 34
    I own a 03 camry, I have the same spongy feel on my brake. After I test drive my friends 00 camry I am more concern about my brake. When I test drive the 00 camry I only have to touch a little bit on the brake, then I can feel strong brake force. But on my 03 camry I have to step half way on the pedal then feel a little brake force. After a 500 mile trip to Atlanta I am more worry about the safety. I checked my brake fluid, it was at normal level. Is there any way to adjust the pedal to improve the situation without changing the brake pad of brake disk? Or, it is just the nature of the car cannot be improved?

    Thank you for your suggestion and information!
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    A new feature, BA, Brake Assist, has been added to most newer cars. BA often results in a "different" brake pedal feel depending on certain circumstances. The base idea is to provide you with additional braking assistance if the ABS/BA/EBD/etc. controlling ECU determines that you are in a panic braking situation.

    I have no real idea just how this determination is made other than the possibility that the ECU constantly watches the rate at which you move your foot from the gas pedal to the brake to determine an average and if the rate for a given instance is abnormally QUICK it provides the extra, additional, braking assist.

    The result of all this being a soft or spongy brake pedal "feel" during "normal" braking.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    But the '02-06 Camrys do not have Brake Assist as part of the ABS system (optional in '02-04, standard in '05-06).

    A soft pedal is what my '04 Camry (with disk front and rear drum brakes) has. As long as the brake fluid level is normal, I wouldn't worry about it.
  • geffengeffen Member Posts: 278
    The Camry's I test drove had the soft brakes where you really had to step on the pedal to get the car to stop, It doesn't seem that this would be normal especially if you had to make a sudden stop, this sort of turned me against the Camry until I can test drive more of them, i've driven other makes and models and never had brakes that were that soft unless there was a problem with them about to fail.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    I'm surprised because I also have an '05 Camry with 4-wheel disks, and the pedal feel is noticeably stiffer than in my '04 with the disk/drum combo. (Both cars have ABS.)

    All 2007 models have 4-wheel disk brakes (with standard ABS), so I'd expect them to be similar to my '05.

    Edmunds is running a long-term test of the '07 Camry, and I don't recall anyone complaining about this.
  • geffengeffen Member Posts: 278
    These were actually an 05 and an 06 that I had test drove, I haven't test drove the new 07 as of yet.
  • teamtboteamtbo Member Posts: 78
    My wife and I are experiencing the same thing on our 07 Camry. When we first bought it, I figured the brake pads just had to break in. However, we have about 2000 miles on the car now and they still feel mushy. I have a 07 Tacoma and its brakes started out mushy until they broke in. Now they work very well...esp. compared to the Camry.
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    '07, 5,000 miles, brakes are great, stops very quick if necessary (I think one of the best in class). Some people have always complained about a "mushy" feel with Toyotas for years.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Well, my '04 Camry has rather mushy feeling brakes, but after 45K miles, I haven't crashed yet! ;)

    (It was hit while parked, but obviously that doesn't count.)
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    Glad to hear you agree. I also agree with you about the so-called "sludge" problem.
  • geffengeffen Member Posts: 278
    It must be hit or miss in the Camry's with the brake issues, I personally prefer a firm pedal when it comes to stopping, theres nothing like having the feeling of uncertainty when you're traveling on the freeway and exiting at the off ramp and the brakes feel like they barely want to stop the car.
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    Never seen a safety issue with the brakes on Camrys, just a different feel for some people.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Agree, it's not like your going to blow through the stop sign at the end of the exit ramp!

    I've experienced the start of brake master cylinder failure (on my former '77 Impala), and the Camry is nothing like this: when you approach a typical stop, you apply the brakes in the usual manner, and for a split second, NOTHING happens. Your heart skips a beat. Then the brakes kick in.

    As it got worse, I knew it wasn't a mind game, and I realized after the initial press on the pedal with no response, you had to pump again (and again, if necessary). But of course I got the master cylinder replaced as soon as possible.
  • geffengeffen Member Posts: 278
    To me it comes down to stopping distance and the Camry's i've test drove very well could've had brake issues, i've never driven a car that would have brakes that you have to really apply so much pressure just to stop the car, most other cars have firm pedals. My concern is I wouldnt want to be the person that does blow through a stop sign at the end of an exit ramp because im stomping on the brakes to stop. This has sort of swayed me away from looking at a Camry to purchase.
  • robertbanksrobertbanks Member Posts: 2
    On 4 occasions the brakes seem to fail. When the brakes are applied there is no pressure in the pedal and it goes all the way to the flood. Pumping them does not help, the pedal just goes right to the floor without slowing or stopping the car. Always while traveling at lower speeds. Took it to the dealer as well as Firestone and other than 1 occasion where the brake fluid level was low, they could not find anything wrong.

    Has ANYONE had or heard of this problem?
  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    I'd say it had to be the brake master cylinder.

    If the caliper's were sticking and not squeezing, you'd have a hard pedal with no braking.

    If the calipers or any of the lines had a leak, you'd have no brake pedal (like you had), but you'd be way low on brake fluid and there would be brake fluid all over something or dripping on the ground where you park.

    So I think the only thing left is the master cylinder, which when depressed is not pushing the fluid out. Why it only happens at low speed, is beyond me.

    If it was me, I'd make sure you knew how to stop with the parking brake in an emergency. Unfortunately, the 2007 is a locking one without a hand release....so that will make it extremely difficult to use as an "emergency" brake. You'll probably end up locking up the rears. Take it out in a clear parking lot and try what you'd have to do if your brakes failed again. (This made me think that I need to do the same).
  • 650spx650spx Member Posts: 48
    I have seen a few times the master cylinder leak into the brake booster. The master cylinder has to be removed to check.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    i agree with kiawah, it can only be the master cylinder---probably an internal defect. Very freaky that BOTH circuits in the master would fail. I am staggered, shocked and amazed that the dealer would not swap out that master cylinder pronto, given the safety issues here.
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