Toyota Avalon Engine Questions

wmmunn · June 2003

I have had severely bad luck with the oil gelling problem, if you go back in the messages I am sure you will see what I mean. After all the nonsense with the engine, last week I had to have the air/fuel mixture sensors replaced, along with the catalytic convertor. Fortunately, I purchased an extended warranty when I bought the car. So it was covered, except for a $50 deductible. If that had come out of my own pocket it would have been $1350.

This car only has 71500 miles on it, and in the 1 year I have owned it, it has incurred over $13,000 in repairs. All mechanical, and all related to problems with the engine.

matthew525 · June 2003

Well the dealer came clean. They stripped the threads last Friday during the routine LOF. Replacing the oil pan & plug, and have purchased me a rental. Not a happy camper yet; but we'll see what the do and say tomorrow.

lyn03 · September 2003

I have a 2001 XLS. I am original owner and have 20,000 miles on the car. The car started smoking heavily during start up beginning in July. Took it to the local dealership where purchased and they blew me off saying they were too busy to look at it. I was leaving for a month long vacation in San Diego in a few days (I live in southern CA desert) and told the dealer that. They told me to take it to the dealer in San Diego. While in San Diego I took a trip to Las Vegas adding oil before I went. I left on Friday and headed back to SD on Sunday. Just as I got in to San Diego the oil light came on. Checked oil and it was down 4 qts.! Took it to dealer in SD told them about smoking problem and oil consumption and they were well aware of the problem. Still, they had to perform an oil consumption test which consisted of driving 300 miles and checking oil consumption. That didn't take very long since my husband was commuting from our home in the desert to the coast. Well, the dealer has had my car for 4 weeks and 3 days. I have been told that the engine is torn down and they have been replacing parts. They won't tell me exactly what the problem is until we get it back. When that is, I have no idea. The dealer gave me a loaner and they really have treated us great. I just want my car back!

tmp89169 · September 2003

Lyn03 Please post the outcome of your engine problem as it has many implications. The dealer had your car for 4 weeks at your post time and it's been another 2 weeks. Hope you have good news in your next post. tmp

lyn03 · September 2003

As I had posted earlier, my car had been in the shop for oil consumption. I finally got my car back after 5 1/2 weeks in the shop. They never would tell me exactly what was wrong with the engine but the work they did was a complete engine overhaul. So far so good. But I was very upset that they had put a big scratch on the front passenger leather seat. I don't know how it happened or why they would put anything on the front seat but it wasn't scratched when I took it in. When my husband picked the car up, the service people were out to lunch and no one was available to speak to.

yanker · October 2003

WMM Check and see if your state has a lemon law. You are getting close to an intolerable situation. Also just what is a certified car if you can't rely on the darn thing to run and be repaired. Last resort get a new dealer. Desperate last resort write a letter in very crude Japanese to Toyota of America

kozakid · October 2003

I bought my 2003 Avalon in September of last year. About three months ago the yellow "Check Engine Light" (above the odometer) came on and stayed on.

Several days later I took the car in to Savannah Toyota (where I bought it) and after running a diagnostic test the technician, according to the invoice, "Replaced Charcoal Canister." (On the invoice I also see "PULLED PO441, 442, 446", whatever that means.) The light did go out, but two days later (July 30th) the "Check Engine Light" came on again and stayed on.

A few days ago I finally got around to taking the car in again and had a second diagnostic test done. This time the invoice reads "PO 440, 441 VAC. VALVE SWITCH INOP REPLACED." So I assume that means some sort of valve switch was replaced. In any case, today the "Check Engine Light" came on once more and has stayed on.

Has anyone had a similar problem, and, if so, how was it resolved? Both times I've wasted approximately three hours at Savannah Toyota, and this is really starting to get annoying.

wmmunn · January 2004

Well, It has been about 7 months now since I had all that work done on my engine. Many regulars here will remember the ordeals I went through with this car over the past 2 years now. I have been doing my oil changes on my own every 3000 miles since July, and have been using Mobil 1 synthetic exclusively since August. The car still runs well now, and uses about 1/2 quart per 2500 miles now, which I would guess is normal, but not great. There hasnt been a single hiccup since the work was completed. I now have around 82,000 on the odometer and will be crossing my fingers to make it go for another 3 to 4 years, at which time it should have around 160k on it.

mcescher1 · February 2004

Is there a sludge problem on the 2003 Avalon XLS with the 3.0L 1MZ V-6 engine? Has anyone figured out why there is a sludge problem on some Toyotas? My extended warrantee (100,000 miles, 7 years, platinum) excludes coverage of problems with sludge.

scoti1 · March 2004

In answer to #353 of 356 sludge by mcescher1 Feb 29, 2004 (8:34 am) :

"Is there a sludge problem on the 2003 Avalon XLS with the 3.0L 1MZ V-6 engine?"

After announcement of the sludge policy in 2002, Toyota made some running changes to the V-6 engine to help prevent the build-up of sludge. This was reported to be a modification to the PCV system and some other minor engine modifications.

"Has anyone figured out why there is a sludge problem on some Toyotas? "

There has been nothing definitive reported, only a lot of theories. Toyota continues to blame it on owner lack of maintenance. Based on the changes Toyota made to the 2003 engine, it may have been due to the PCV design. Others have claimed that the engine runs hot, cooking the oil and turning it to sludge. The long oil change intervals recommended by Toyota (7,500 mi. normal driving conditions and 5,000 mi. severe driving) were also pointed to as a possible contributor to the problem.

abfisch · March 2004

Forum:

I have 40K on my 02 Avalon. I change the oil every 5K, almost on the decimel. I use regular or blend during the months other than winter (North Country) where I use Mobil 1 synthetic 0W-30 (Viscosity is superior in temps below 0 F.)

I have NO sludge problem. I do not burn any oil.

abfisch

smoore5 · March 2004

I have a 2000 Avalon XLS. I had sludge problems and needed a ring and valve job at 26,000 km. I used a little oil after the rebuild but the car has been running fine until very recently. I now have 77,310 km on it and my lease is up in two weeks. I have changed oil religiously at about 6000 km or less since the rebuild. I had my last change at 75,090 km on February 5th. I checked the oil about two weeks ago and it was fine. However, in the last day or so I started to notice the oil pressure light coming on when I braked. I checked the oil today and had to add 3 litres (about 3 American quarts)to get it up to full in the diptstick. There is no oil on the garage floor so I must be burning it. That is 3 litres in less than 2300 km and probably less that 1500 km.

I know they extended the oil for sludging problem to 8? years. I could just keep filling it with oil and turn it in at the end of the lease and shut up. I have the receipts to show that I did all of the required maintenance. I am wondering if there is any other explanation for the oil use?

I would prefer to come clean now and get the car fixed before it comes off lease. Any suggestions? Thanks for your help.

lyn03 · March 2004

smoore5, please read my post #223.

smoore5 · March 2004

Thanks Lyn03, I read the post. I decided to go to the dealer today and advise them of the problem. Service wasn't open so there wasn't much they could do.

I was told that the car must be fixed before I can surrender it at the end of the lease, even if the problem is covered by the warranty.

I strongly suspect that I am going to need a complete rebuild just like I had at 26,000 km. I probably won't see the car again because the lease is up at on March 22nd.

Does anyone know if the extended warranty for the oil sludge problem entitles you to a loaner?

scoti1 · March 2004

smoore5, yes, you are supposed to get a loaner while the sludge repairs are being done.

ecoguy · April 2004

I own a 2003 Avalon XL that has about 9000 miles on it. From the time it had only 300 miles, I have been feeling a vibration through the gas pedal and steering wheel when the engine is turning between 1400 and 1800 RPMs. This only occurs when the car is in gear (and it occurs consistently in all gears during normal driving). The vibration is also transmitting itself through the dashboard because I can often hear a buzz sound along with what I can feel. I had a local Toyota dealer check it out at 1000 miles and the mechanic wrote "Vibration from pedal is normal from electronic. Throttle control actuctor is normal." I brought the car to another dealer at 2700 miles and actually went on a drive with the mechanic (I took the day off from work). He heard the buzz, but could not diagnose the source of the vibration. I took the car back to the first dealer last week and was told that they could not feel the vibration.

I've searched the major Avalon discussions and have not found anything like this. Has anyone else experienced this type of problem?

nomad56 · April 2004

Sorry so slow to get back... I'm travelling alot right now, and my time on the PC is brief. I don't have an answer though. I would have written it off as "harmonic vibration/resonance" This happens on many cars, and is usually left to an RPM range that is out of an engines "cruising" speed. ...but, then you say it vibrates your dash??? Sounds too strong to be resonant frequencies???? You also say it can be felt in the steering wheel, Wow! It sounds to me like the vibration is in the front of the "car", not necessarily the throttle pedal, which is electronic and NOT physically connected to the engine. I would troubleshoot this by putting the rear wheels/tires on the front(be sure all tires are moving in the right direction, if they are directional) and driving the car. If it goes away, it's a resonant vibration in the wheels, even though they are "balanced". 1) RE-balance them. 2) Inspect tires for irregular treadwear, which can cause this 3) Research the tires you have and see if they are known for this (more common in a truck's aggressive tread tire). Finally, I would go drive another Avy, or two, and see if they do it. Let us know how you progress -nomad56-

ecoguy · April 2004

Thank you, Nomad56, for your thoughts on my vibration issue. I'm a bit confused by your suggestions about the tires. The vibration occurs at a specfic RPM range (1400-1600) and is not related road speed. The vibration actually stops when I let up on the gas pedal (because this causes the RPMs to decrease). I agree that I should try driving another Avalon as a comparison. I'll try to arrange that with the dealer.

ecoguy · April 2004

I meant to say 1400 to 1800 RPMs in my previous post (#396).

nomad56 · April 2004

Ecoguy-The tires and wheels can have vibration at certain speeds/ranges, with various causes(Sometimes "cupped" treads on tires can cause this). This is a "resonant" frequency. When you let off the accelerator, the wheels are no longer directly connected to the driveline. You are, effectively, "freewheeling". Like when you stop pedaling your bike. This is why I think (or GUESS???) it may go away. NOT because RPM's are down, but because the vibration is not being transferred back to the car, through the tranny. I would, also, try this: 1) Get the car up to 60+ mph, then let it coast and rev the engine to the 14-1800 rpm range, and see if the vibration is there. Then... 2) I would swap the tires, see if that is a "fix". If it is, I rebalance what are NOW the rear wheels/tires. -nomad56-

norm · July 2004

This will happen if the gas cap is not tightened. Indicates that cannister may be leaking.

sms12349 · August 2004

Occasionally my Avalon with 61,000 miles chugs and acts like it wants to stall at idle. It also starts to skip at 6200 RPMs. Any ideas? It had the complete 60K dealer servicing done.

nomad56 · August 2004

If it is "chugging" occasionally at startup, what are those conditions??? With very little info, I can only guess. Sounds like a sensor. ECU is getting bad info and making improper adjustments to idle speed, air:fuel mix, etc...

The "chug" at 6200 RPM sounds like you are hitting the REV limiter, which I think is at 6300 on these cars. -nomad56-

sms12349 · August 2004

Thanks. This chugging at low speeds has happened three times after driving around 30 miles. Seems odd that there is a rev limiter if it shows up to 8000 but that could be.

rmsachs · August 2004

My '00 XLS Avalon with 52K miles occasionally knocks going up slow inclines in high gear. I've been using regular gas since day 1, but this only happened beginning about 4 months ago. I thought the computer was supposed to adjust the engine for the given gas mixture. Is there a sensor or computer problem? Do I need a tuneup yet (never done)? I change oil and air filters regularly according to book maintenance schedule.

Another clue. Maybe unrelated, but after a leaving a rest-stop on a long highway drive 2 days ago, my check-engine light and VSC lights went on and stayed on. Otherwise, engine performance and gas mileage are just fine. My gas-cap was tightened correctly (which was the cause of the same problem two years ago). I have an appointment at the dealer tomorrow to read the computer and reset the lights. I want to be prepared to accept or reject any service they recommend (like an engine flush).

fndlyfmrflyr · August 2004

The computer has limits on the amount of adjustments that can be made to stop knocking (usually timing is reduced). Deposits inside the combustion chamber can significanly raise octane requirements. The fact that the check engine light came on and stayed on is an indication that something isn't working properly.

Please post the results of your dealer's diagnosis.

I had a Mazda 626 GT a number of years ago that did the same kind of knocking going up slight inclines in high gear. Like your Avalon, the problem began after many thousands of miles had been put on the car. I was already using premium gasoline and the knock sensor was working properly. I found the timing when the car was built was set 2 degrees higher than specification. Reducing the timing to specification permanently eliminated the knocking.

rmsachs · August 2004

My dealer in NJ found two sets of codes. The computer was reset and the car runs fine.

Code P0171 indicated the Mass Air flow meter needed cleaning. This could have triggered the check engine light. This could also explain the knocking problem. The car runs smooth now with no knocking.

Codes C1301 and C0215 relate to independent tire spin in rear wheels compared to fronts. I had my wheels alligned about 500 miles prior to the incident that caused the check engine light to go on. But the dealer speculated that these codes could have been stored, and the VSC lights then went on after the air-flow meter problem caused the check-engine light to appear on.

txgeezer · August 2004

An official Toyota document I read (like, the owner's manual) said that occasional knocking going up an incline is normal and no big deal. I'll try to find the source if you make me.

txgeezer · August 2004

Ideas? Yeah, one. Stop going over the redline. That would be 6,000 RPM.

john609 · October 2004

Has anyone received a check "engine light" where the trouble code tied back to "Random Misfire" or "Random Misfire in Cylinders 1, 3, & 5"?

In all cases, my car went over a bump while coasting when the light activated.

My independent mechanic said it was an electrical wire probably loose.

I'm thinking it could be a fuel injector (or 2) going bad. Any thoughts?

thomasd · October 2004

I had the same problem with my 2001 Avalon. I took it to dealer and they had to take the engine apart and clean. The problem is that the engine oil gelled -- I found out this a problem with many Avalons and Toyota created an 8 year warranty rather than a recall. So bottom line -- you should not have to pay a dime for this and there is no way it should take them longer than a couple days to fix it!

deepan · October 2004

i recently bought a 96 avalon with 146k kms. one owner and have full service history. maintained at the dealership. regular oil changes. do folks do engine flushes once in a while. these are put into the crancase and 5 mins later need to do a oil change. recently had the timing belt done and the engine looks clean although the oil after 3k kms is
a bit brown.

culpeper · December 2004

It's not the wheels. I have the same problem with a 1990 4Runner V6 (believe it or not). Put the vehicle in drive, hold down on the brakes and get the motor up to the same rpm range and you can duplicate the noise. Maybe exhaust crossover pipe. I don't know and neither does my local Toyota dealer.

fbrownlo · February 2005

I bought a very nice, immaculate 2003 Avalon, but it proves to have a serious problem with white smoke & engine sludge. The dealership has cleaned it, & claims to have put in a new short block, but the problem is still there. What puzzles me is why they haven't just put in a new cylinder head--Any experience/ideas about this?

scoti1 · February 2005

Did Toyota do your sludge cleaning under warranty? Just curious because the extended sludge policy (8 years, unlimited miles) was for 1997 - 2002 models. I was wondering if they extended it.

What do you mean by the problem still being there?

dodge · February 2005

Hello i currently own a 2000 avalon and i want to get more horse power from it is there any perfomance upgrades on the market that works to get more horse power?

jdrewski · February 2005

Has anyone noticed a hotrod-like engine intake grumble upon throttle tip-in in gear? Ducts are tight, dealer says they all do it. Is there a problem with my car or is this another case of value engineering-ie the old guys won't hear it so let it go? Ideas? Fixes?

abfisch · February 2005

buddy:

You could put a High performance air filter in. That may do something, but I would not mess around with this engine too much. They just have too much electronic componetry to mess with, and having a first model year (2000) I would hesitate.

The suspension is something different. Same as the old Camry and ES300. You can put on Tokico HP shocks, and Energy Suspension sway bars PU bushings as well as front control arm bushing. The handling will change substantially.

abfisch

gazer1 · March 2005

Dear:

Please advise me. I am very worried.

I bought 1999 Avalon XL with 90K miles in ebay. I found the previous owner didn't do anything except oil change. Immediately, I did
- All brakes and all tires.
- trunk release cable.
- Charcoal canister at dealer.

The car WAS GREAT. It gave 27 miles/gallon (I drive slowly on highway) and was very powerful and smooth.

Then, the problem came. I saw SIGNIFICANT power loss and the gas mileage dropped to 24m/gallon.

I checked and found that the transmission fluid was BROWN. I went to VALVOLINE (was it a mistake???) to flush the transmission fluid completely. I am NOT sure if they used the correct fluid. After then, the power loss became MUCH WORSE and gas mileage became 21m/gallon on highway. I feel as if I am towing a heavy trailer.

I will do spark plug change. But there must be some bigger problems. No check engine light is on....

Please advise me. Thanks.

fin · March 2005

Avalons get more than 21 mpg on the highway so, yes, there is something else wrong. Start with checking the engine and if all is fine move to the transmission again. BUT, could the brakes be dragging? Who fixed the brakes? Was the job done properly? Just a thought...
A Toyota dealer or a good independent garage should be able to find the problem. But you do have a problem at 21 mpg highway and it is probably not the sparkplugs.

fndlyfmrflyr · March 2005

Tranny fluid: Some of today's transmission fluids slowly change color with use from red to dark brown. This is normal and not a sign of a problem Therefore, the color of the transmission fluid not being red is no longer an absolute indicator fluid needs changing. However, at 90k miles, it was a good idea to change the fluid. NOTE: My Toyota service manual says change the fluid if it smells burnt or is black.

As long as the proper transmission fluid was used and the transmission is shifting normally the cause for your mpg loss is probably elsewhere. You didn't mention changing the engine air filter.

Agree with fin.

fndlyfmrflyr · March 2005

I've tried K&N filters and noticed no difference in mpg or performance compared to a reasonably clean OE air filter.

z44 · March 2005

Can anyone give me the size of the 1MZ-FE gasket head size??

gazer1 · March 2005

OK. I am back again.
I did
- Spark plug change. --> It didn't fix.
- Brake check -> It was moving OK.
- Transmission. --> Probilt said it looked OK.

The issue is MPG AND the power. I knew how powerful the Avalon was. Now, it is like a UHAUL truck at uphill.

I begin to suspect
- the HESS gas station where I went before it happened. Any wrong additives?
- mis-timing (firing) due to slipped timing belt? The belt is original but it is FINE. Can spilted oil make it slip??

Once thing I recall is
- The same power loss was observed WHEN the check engine light came on last month. Then Dealer changed the Charcoal Canister as I said earlier. After Charcoal canister was replaced and dealer reset the computer, the power came back. Someone said that "Changing charcoal canister CAN'T affect power". Is it true ????????

If so, can resetting the computer make the difference? can it be computer problem??? As I said, 'check engine light' is NOT on now.

I had no problem so far with any toyota engines. Any similar experience or advice would be appreciated.

mikes. · March 2005

My families 96 Avalon and 01 Solara both suffered like this, especially the loss of power, until we had the Mass AirFlow (MAF) sensor cleaned. Went to Jiffy-lube, I think it was, and for about 60 bucks they fed a can of injector cleaner thru the brake vacumn line directly into the running engine. They also added a can of cleaner into the gas tank and most importantly they physically swabbed out the MAF by hand using some kind of gel on a sponge with a long handle. The sponge kinda reminds you of a Q-tip.

This made a noticable improvement on power, don't remember a loss of mpg though.

MikeS.

tinkerguy · March 2005

2 Cents worth: Even though the "dealer" replaced the cannister, is it possible they left an air leak or other vacuum connection problem?
Poor accelleration and performance can also be from the vacuum system, such as leaving the EGR engaged, etc. Also might check any electrical connections near or at the cannister location.
Just worth checking....

fin · March 2005

You are getting good advice here. The problem may well electrical/emissions even though there is no warning light. Do the warning lights all work? Take the car to a good Toyota dealer or a good independent and have the car checked. You will find the problem - get a print out - and can quit guessing. Post what they find so all who read here may benefit. Hope it is something minor. But let the forum know. Great cars, these Avalons....

bigone · March 2005

i have same problem does it hesitate

54gradsteds · March 2005

Hi,
I've got a '95 Avalon with 158,000 miles on it, and I'd like to keep it for another year or two. Dealer tells me my valve-cover gaskets are leaking, and the fix will cost $700, including materials. Seems like a whole lot of money to me, at $80 per hour. Is this something I should entrust only to the dealer, or can any competent mechanic do it? If the latter is a possibility, about how much should I expect to pay in the suburban DC area?

I'd like to have a new Limited, and She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed has okayed the release of funds, but I'd feel better about waiting for another year or so, just in case there are some "kinks" in the new model. Besides, I think the colors offered now are REALLY crappy!

Thanks----Phil

54gradsteds · April 2005

Zone1,
Thanks for your input..my sentiments exactly...at $60 for parts, that leaves a $640 labor charge, @ my dealer's $80.00 per hour rate. It just boggles the imagination that Miller Toyota in Manassas needs to take 8 hours of a qualified mechanic's time to do what I consider to be a Mickey Mouse job!!!!

p.s. I just did a quick check of my service record receipts, and nowhere have I found that my pcv valve was ever replaced, even after 159,000 miles....could that be the culprit, or is it better to just blame the mileage?

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