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BMW 3-Series Oil Questions

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Comments

  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Sorry about that. Suffice to say I am a card carrying member of the LTA (Lateral Thinkers Anonymous). :P

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    No problem...it's a good question. Why would they do this cold turkey for theE-90? Can the cash saved by removing the dipstick outweigh the customer satisfaction? I assume if you buy a BMW, you know how to check your oil...pre-2006, however.

    Also, does the 2006 0r 2007 E-60 I-6 have a dipstick? If so, what the heck are they thinking?!? :confuse:

    Regards,
    OW
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "Also, does the 2006 0r 2007 E-60 I-6 have a dipstick?"

    That my friend is the sixty-four million dollar question.

    I'll do a little digging and report back.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    MT says the 2006 M5 has no dipstick. I will not jump to any conclusion on the E60 I-6 engine but...

    link title

    Regards,
    OW
  • jaycoa38jaycoa38 Member Posts: 1
    I just experienced the low oil light this morning. I went to the local BMW dealer and he explained the problem with the sensor and put me on a waiting list for the new one. He told me to try something that he thought may turn off the light. Put the car in the garage, turn off the engine, and open the engine oil fill cap for a few hours. Put everything back and drive the car. Somehow this is supposed to dry the condensation? I don't know. He wants me to call him back and let him know if it worked. I haven't gone out yet, so I don't know if it will work. Has anyone else been told to do this? :confuse:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    This is all starting to sound like BMW voodoo to ward off unhappy customers for a few weeks.

    What IS this mysterious "condensation" that withstands the heat of an engine running all day? Heavy water?
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I don't know about you but I can not believe that a qualified BMW Technician/Advisor would give such advice! If I were a mechanic at that dealer and heard that from the Advisor, I would run before I burst out laughing (and then get the customer on the side and tell him the truth).

    Let me put a hypothetical out there...say there was a dipstick and the oil was cloudy on the dipstick This might portend for some condensation or other substance in the oil. But without that indicator, how will we ever know lest we drain the oil each time and measure it to see if we have enough or to add any.

    Can you see a problem brewing after 4 years/48K??

    Regards,
    OW
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well they will hurl the epithet of "luddite" at you but personally I think removing an engine's dipstick was an ill-considered engineering decision.

    Why? Because checking and changing one's oil was one of the last elements of control left to a car owner...his last shred of dignity...and the dipstick has been grabbed from his hand with a "hey, gimme that. You don't know what you're doing".

    Well, I'm being dramatic and tongue in cheek, but you get the idea.
  • bgcbgc Member Posts: 10
    When I brought my 328xi in on Feb. 16 I printed out idoc message #90 that his dealer said that a new sensor was being designed. My service tech called the shop foreman (I'm not making this up He is said to be one of the top 5 in the country??????) anyway according to their roundtable discussions I guess it is their version of a forum) they printed the latest version for the fix ( 8 step process) even going so far as telling how much torque should be used when putting back the original sensor (only replaced the O ring). I only drove the car on Saturday no light appeared because I finally was able to get to Florida on Sunday, my flight from New York was cancelled Wed. One thing for sure the car is fixed until March 1 because that will be the next time I drive it. Any other versions for the repair? I actually read this bulletin complete with diagrams.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I know sooner or later we will all get over this but until the technology (read:computer) can feedback all engine diagnostics reliably, it's going to be a "bumpy ride".

    Let's just lock the front (or rear) hood so only the "qualified techs" can access to service the drivetrain components.

    Live and learn.

    Regards,
    OW
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well the human body is a sealed unit and has a great computer but they still let you check your own blood pressure and temperature.
    ;)
  • idoc2idoc2 Member Posts: 78
    Despite my skeptical post of a few days ago my local service manager, who by the way is also skeptical, reports that BMW is no longer replacing oil level sensors but recommending the above described ridiculous gyrations in an effort to remove condensation from the system. I agree with our host that this smells like voodoo. Because my oil sensor seems to have regained its senses I have declined to go through the trouble of bringing my car in for service but will submit if the sensor acts up again.

    Idoc2
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    My only concern is how these mysterious vapors got into the system, and, after purging them, how do we keep these mysterious vapors from re-appearing to haunt us?

    Are we treating symptoms and not causes? --is my question to BMW.

    This whole things sounds so....medieval..... :P
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Now I know where the backyard mechanics have gone!

    "Hans, drain the oil, check the weight, divide by the specific gravity and air out the engine to dry up the water to make sure we can run tonight! We got to beat those Audi guys! They got dipsticks!!"

    Regards,
    OW
  • carlobcarlob Member Posts: 5
    We just picked up a new 328 on Thursday Feb. 22nd. The low oil came on while taking the brand new vehicle home. The next morning the dealer told me it was because of condensation because of sitting too long. I asked him how long it has to sit to create the problem and he did not know. So I checked on this forum for the problem and bingo. I guess I now have a vehicle that is going to have a chronic problem. By the way I wish it was just a low oil light but with Idrive the warning takes over the whole screen and not much else functions.
  • bgcbgc Member Posts: 10
    That is true. The display constantly shows the warning on the left. The right side will show your current choice. I am wondering if anyone had the light reappear after their system had the condensation removed. Sitting too long? That was my explanation as well. If I were you I would definitely complain that you should have told about this problem before taking delivery. As stated earlier, since Dec. 27, my 328xi has been at the dealer 28 days. twice for check engine and then the oil. You never know what they might offer. I was promised 2 lease payments.Good luck
  • kaiopect8kaiopect8 Member Posts: 12
    It strikes me that the explanation you were given is baloney, and either knowingly or negligently so, given the info on this site, which dealers across the nation already know.. You should not be driving a brand new car with that warning light on -- read what the manual directs you to do immediately when you see that warning! I can't believe a dealer would have you drive away and not replace the sensor! I suggest that you print out this series of posts and, the next time the light comes on, you return the car, with a copy of these messages, and demand that it be fixed. If they refuse, call your lawyer immediately, and contact your state attorney general.
  • tpjcourtneytpjcourtney Member Posts: 34
    I had mine go off two nights ago while driving. The car is two months old with 2500miles. Since I'd heard of the issue, I drove a couple blocks to dinner and stopped. When I came back out and restarted the car, everything was back to normal.

    I know my oil was at the halfway point only a few days before when I checked it, so I'm not too worried about being low. I am concerned about it though since I have no confidence in the acuracy of the sensor. I will be talking to my SA this week.
  • rwhlpnrwhlpn Member Posts: 3
    How stupid do I feel right now? I've been reading other threads about my purchase of a 328xi for the past month or so. Picked up the car on Tuesday. We drove back to the dealer yesterday for some assistance with the Bluetooth hookup. Just as we get home, after a whole 160 miles, this little warning light goes on. Being a newbie, it took a while, but lo and behold, the oil warning light is on. My immediate thought was electrical. Did a stop/start and the light went out. Did a stop/start and the light went on.

    All of a sudden this morning, I remember seeing a thread about "oil" in this forum and have been reading for a while. So, from my readings I'd like to confirm that I probably have the same affliction of an indicator light malfunction vs burning through quarts of oil after 160 miles? I'd prefer to schedule something with the dealer vs. showing up and waiting a couple of hours for them to fix it. Thanks from a long time lurker and first time poster.
  • bgcbgc Member Posts: 10
    Being less than a week old, I would think your dealer would take care of this situation immediately. They should have a loaner car for you. Pick up the car at your convenience. This is so widespread of an issue you would think this would be part of the delivery preparation.As you stated you read about this a while ago they should feel stupid and embarassed. Good Luck
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Bgc, I believe you just might have advised a real good strategy for everyone with this issue. Demand that the dealer diagnose and fix the problem and also that a loaner is scheduled until the dealer fixes the problem to their satisfaction.

    I have a 2006 3 and there was a light indication at 5K miles but I never added any oil and the problem rectified itself after a few resets/re-starts during the same day of occurrence.

    Regards,
    OW
  • dgarranddgarrand Member Posts: 2
    My second sensor gave a false reading last week. The following day the oil level was fine and the sensor didn't light up. I called my BMW dealer to report it. He called me this morning and told me that they had just received a bulletin this morning from BMW. They are now telling me that if my oil sensor acts up again, the "fix" for it is to take it out and drive it at highway speeds for 45 minutes! I told them I'd be giving them a receipt for the gas used for this 45-minute trip, as gas is over $2.50 a gallon!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Let's hope that your dealer just made that up...that can't be an official communique from a BMW technical department. Please say it isn't so. That is so pathetic. :cry:
  • dgarranddgarrand Member Posts: 2
    According to my dealer, those were the "official" instructions on the technical bulletin issued this morning. The dealership was told not to replace the sensors anymore. It's still about condensation in the sensor. He said if the 45-minute road trip didn't work, they would then try cleaning out the sensor as others have talked about in previously in this discussion. I only paid how much for this car?? I still love the car though. :confuse:
  • bgcbgc Member Posts: 10
    It seems they are now putting the labor ( 45 minute drive and cost (time and gas) on the customers shoulders. There is no oil change, filter, and labor cost on their end.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    This is a perfect scenario for everyone who can institute Lemon Law process regarding this issue to take the lead. If it were me, I would have sent the letter to BMWUSA already.

    No excuses. Bad sensor design can not be fixed by "drying out" the engine! Either the sensor is bad or the engine is!!!

    Regards,
    OW
  • rwhlpnrwhlpn Member Posts: 3
    Well, this should be good for a few laughs. On my previous post, I overstated the mileage. It was actually 110 miles, but that being said, I called the dealer on Monday. Yesterday, the service manager conveyed to me what was previously stated as to the fix, but expressed a lack of confidence in what BMW had told him to date. They sent a driver (30 miles) to pick up the car today. Now I wonder what story I'm going to get when they bring the car back this afternoon. Will I get yesterdays story, or todays story?
  • bgcbgc Member Posts: 10
    Keep us posted. I had the fix on Feb. 16. I have not driven the car since the 17th. I've been in Florida,I'll find out tomorrow when I get home. So far my BMW has been a bad dream, it seems like I'm waiting for the next warning light to appear. 3 warning lights and 28 days at the service department.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Make sure you keep good documentation. Can you use the Lemon Law in your state?
  • bgcbgc Member Posts: 10
    Yes. It is presumed that there has been a reasonable number of attempts to repair a problem if, during the first 18,000 miles of operation or two years from the original delivery date, whichever comes first, either (a) the manufacturer (or its authorized dealer) has had an opportunity to repair the same problem four or more times and the problem continued to exist at the end of the fourth repair attempt; or (b) the car was out of service by reason of repair for a cumulative total of 30 or more calendar days for one or more problems. Part B pertains to my situation. Since Dec. 27 they have had the car 28 days. I am keeping very accurate documentation, including the phone conversations.Thanks BGC P.S. BMW customer service not the dealership had the nerve to tell me that it is the number of business days. That's a good laugh.(New York)
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Unbelievable...the customer service people should get to use your car if the problem persists and you get a new one as a result of their inability to fix the problem. Let's see how they feel with "Low Oil" starring them in the face when they least expect in in the middle of no where.

    Keep us posted. I really hope they have to give you a new car. I will gamble they can not fix it because there is a problem with your particular engine they can not diagnose and solve.

    Regards,
    OW
  • kaiopect8kaiopect8 Member Posts: 12
    A few half-wit comments:

    1. Lemon Law is going to be a question of State law, and that differs from state to state. (And, consider that in some circumstances, the buyer and seller may reside in different states.)

    2. Don't make any assumptions about what the Lemon Law provides. Don't even assume that summaries of the law which you find at state government or 'lawyer-dot-com websites are complete and accurate. A summary is not the same thing as the actual statute and regulations. Track down the entire original sets of provisions, and read them all.

    3. The text of the Lemon Law is not the end-all, either, because there may have been administrative decisions, court decisions, and even unpublished court decisions, interpreting and applying that law. It could be worth your while to find a lawyer who's handled Lemon Law cases and is willing to talk a little.

    4. Documentation IS important, as more than one correspondent here has pointed out. In some states, the dealerships are required to document every service effort and provide you a copy. But, I've experienced service visits which weren't documented. Don't be embarrassed to say, nicely, "Could you please place in your service record that XXXXX", and ask for a copy of the record.

    5. If it's bad enough, think outside the box -- consider whom else you might contact -- Better Business Bureau? State Consumer Advocate? Journalist consumer columnist? Your salesman? Federal agency? Other ideas? I will say this: If you love the car otherwise, and you love BMW, don't hesitate to put that in writing as part of your correspondence -- you may get an entirely different reception. There is a big difference -- especially to your dealer -- between being a loyal customer, who can bring in other customers, but who's getting shafted and having his/her confidence and support eroded, and someone who's just all-around negative and apparently just looking for an excuse to dump his/her car.

    6. Watch the calendar, and don't let things slide. Don't just drive your new car around unheedingly with serious warning lights on. Your legal rights may expire with the increasing odometer readings, and you're being neglectful yourself, if you ignore the warnings. And, they may actually be able to fix it!
  • rwhlpnrwhlpn Member Posts: 3
    Thanks for staying with the newbie on this. The dealer delivered the car promptly yesterday and they performed the previous outlined service of changing the oil, o-ring, sensor, etc, not the "run it for 45 minutes." They left me with about 10 pages of documentation.

    The weekend is when the car is driven the most, so we'll give it a good run this weekend and I'll post next week. This is the first BMW and I love the drive, love the feel, love the handling and love the car. I want this to work out.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Now that's more like it. Let's see the results you get. I an hoping for the best for you.

    I think my car is great. I had a problem with the air-bag warning light that ultimately need a complete wiring harness change to the steering wheel.

    Other than that, the car has been flawless outside of the 1-day oil warning that miraculously went away.

    The dealer I bought from is very customer oriented with repairs and maintenance so far. I am very impressed and this is the best treatment i have ever experienced from any car company.
  • connecticut1connecticut1 Member Posts: 2
    Had my oil sensor cleaned, oil replaced with filter today and on the way home oil display says "INACTIVE". Dealer says probably a loose connection. (probably forgot to reconnect it) So, next week I'll drive another hour back to the dealer to see if we can fix new problem. Based upon prior posts, I'm not too optimistic.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,503
    it's all covered by the warranty.

    Isn't that all that matters? ;)
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • idoc2idoc2 Member Posts: 78
    Has anyone out there changed their own oil on a 328xi or similar engine? If so what does it involve? A quick glance under the engine (without ramps) revealed a plastic aero shield but no obvious filter nor drain plug. Also, how does one reset the service reminder on the car's display? Will the dealer sell the filters and for how much? I would prefer not to wait the 15K miles nor have the hassle of loosing the car for a day to the dealer. Can Jiffy Lube or a similar quick change service facility do this?

    Idoc2
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Several points:

    1) While I've never changed the oil on an E90 I have done it on E46s and E39s. The basic procedure is to drain the oil from the sump, drain the oil from the oil filter canister, refill both and away you go.
    2) As a general rule, cars with a belly pan have a fairly easy way of removing or adjusting the position of said pan.
    3) Last I heard, all BMWs need to be reset with a specific reset tool. That said, it wouldn't surprise me if there was now a method to do that via the iDrive interface or other dash board interface.
    4) Yes, dealers sell filters. IIRC, a filter is somewhere between $7.50 and $10.00.
    5) What is your reasoning for not wanting to wait for the 15K serivce?
    6) My dealers have all been able to do the oil change while I waited. Total time less than an hour.
    7) If I were BMW and I found that a car under warranty had been taken to Jiffy Lube, I'd immediately void the engine portion of the warranty. Why? Well, among other reasons, Pennzoil, and by extension Jiffy Lube, doesn't offer even a single oil that is certified to meet the BMW LL-01 oil specification. I'm sure if you call your local Jiffy Boob and ask, they'll tell you that they have just the oil for your car, however, if you check the Pennzoil web site, you'll see that no BMW oil spec is among the many specs that the claim to meet.
    8) If you MUST have your oil changed before the engine monitor says that it's time, then make damn sure you buy yourself seven quarts of either BMW Synthetic Oil, German made (says "Made in Germany" right on the label) Castrol Syntec 0W-30 or Mobil 1 0W-40, and then either do the job yourself, or take it to a good independent mechanic and WATCH him or her do it, making sure that they pour in the oil you bought.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • idoc2idoc2 Member Posts: 78
    You're probably correct about Jiffy Lube not being a viable alternative to the dealer. I tend to keep my cars a long time, 9-10 years 175K-200K miles and thus my inclination is that given the relatively low cost of oil changes and the potential benefits every 5K miles seems like a good idea. Given BMW's "free" service for the first 4 years I am somewhat cynical about a 15K mile change interval as being in their best interest not mine. With regard to the inconvenience of taking the car to the dealer, I am very busy at work and cannot remember the last time I had a free hour or two during normal service center hours. At home I can do it in an evening or weekend, run the car up on ramps let the oil drain while doing something else, come back and finish the job requiring about 20 minutes of actual involvement. Frankly, way more convenient if you don't mind getting your hands a bit dirty.
  • kominskykominsky Member Posts: 850
    This is all for an e46 so I'm not sure how much will be different in your car...

    There is a "trap door" in the aero shield that opens with a 1/4 turn screw to access the drain plug. However, following advice from other posters here and after reading about them in Consumer Reports, I bought an oil extractor which pulls the oil out through the dipstick tube... pretty sweet!

    The filter (which can be purchased at any dealership or online) is under the hood right near the front of the bay toward the right side. You need a 36mm socket to remove the cover... Sears sells them.

    In 06/00 and newer E46's, the computer can be reset without a tool. The process in the Bentley service manual is:
    * With ignition key in OFF position, press and hold the odometer button (one on the left) in instrument cluster.
    * Turn key to accessory position.
    * Keep button pressed for approx. 5sec until any of following appear in the display: "Oil Service" or "Inspection", with "Reset" or "Re".
    * Press button again and hold for ~ 5sec until "Reset" or "Re" flash.
    * While display is flashing, press button briefly to reset SII.
    * At this point, you should see the new interval displayed.

    There is much debate about the necessity of shorter oil change intervals (right Shipo?)... I do mine at 7500 miles cause I like that warm fuzzy feeling I get. :-)

    Stay away from JiffyLube!! Do the change yourself, go to a reputable indy, or let the dealer do it.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Just prior to letting my 530i go back at lease end, I had an UOA performed on it. At that point the Mobil 1 0W-40 had just over 9,000 miles on it. The UOA came back indicating that the oil was a little less than two-thirds gone (based upon a VOA that I had performed at the same time). With that in mind, it's pretty obvious that these engines can in fact go the full 15,000 miles. That said, I'm not that much of a fan of the BMW oil (although I have no scientific evidence to back that up), and as such I was in the habit of yanking it after 5,000 miles and then running the remainder of the service interval with Mobil 1.

    Given that my now extremely high annual mileage precludes me from leasing a new BMW, I'm in "lurk" mode for the perfect 2000 528i 5-Speed with all of the trimmins. Obviously that car will be outside the warranty and free maintenance period, and instead of paying for a UOA every so often to confirm the oil's continued effacacy, I'll just target 10,000 mile oil changes and be done with it. The current plan is to pick up a car with relatively low mileage (60K-70K), and then drive it until the quarter of a million mark.

    Said another way, if you change your oil at 5,000 mile intervals, it is an absolute certainty that you will be throwing away oil that would otherwise still be good for another seven to ten thousand miles.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • jeep53jeep53 Member Posts: 49
    HI ALL. I WOULD APPRECIATE ANY RESPONSES TO MY QUESETION. I'M IN THE THINKING STAGE OF BUYING A 2001 OR 2002 BMW 330CI CONVERTIBLE. THEY REALLY HOLD THEIR VALUE FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN SO FAR. IS THERE ANYONE OUT THERE WHO OWNS ONE OR PLANS ON GETTING ONE? I WAS JUST WONDERING HOW THE CAR IS GENERALLY. THIS WOULD BE MY FIRST BMW. I'M LOOKING FOR A FUN CONVERTIBLE WITH A BACK SEAT(NO MATTER HOW SMALL).

    ANY HELP YOU CAN GIVE WOULD BE APPRECIATED. THANKS!!!
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Just a quick unrealted question to Shipo.

    What is the max mileage between changes on your DGC?

    Regards,
    OW
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "What is the max mileage between changes on your DGC?"

    Actually we have two, both with the 3.8 liter engine. One has a recommendation of 6,000 miles and the other has a recommendation of 7,500 miles. Using Mobil 1 0W-40, I'm using a target 10,000 mile OCI with both vans.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Hi Jeep:

    I think you should be posting here for a quicker answer:

    BMW 330ci Related Topic

    Of course you can check back here, too, in case someone with that car pops in--but we'd like to stay on topic with OIL.
  • bgcbgc Member Posts: 10
    Service engine soon lite came on. We had some icy and cold weather in New York last Friday, while driving home the lite came on. Brought in Monday. HERE IT COMES There seems to be a software issue with the program that causes this lite to come on at very cold temperatures. Tech showed me bulletin, BMW is creating new software to alleviate this condition so for now they cancel out the message and when the software issue is resolved the car goes back in. Well at least Spring is here.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I assume the software is cheaper than a dipstick. Unbelievable continues...

    Regards,
    OW
  • bgcbgc Member Posts: 10
    Called BMW Customer Relations after I dropped the car off on Monday. Relayed info concerning the issues I had with my 328xi. Here is a review,
    1. Took delivery of new 2007 328xi Loaded Sticker 45,000.
    on Dec. 27
    2. Jan. 6 in shop till Jan. 22 for valvetronic and relay
    3. Jan 24 back in shop till Feb. 5 for a new DME
    4. Feb. 16 to Feb. 17 for oil sensor
    5. March 19 to March 20 Software issue
    Molly at customer relations was unbelievable she understood my utter frustration with this car, she spoke to dealer and regional rep. Tuesday afternoon I get a call from my servive rep that regional approved taking back the car and getting me into a new one. Going today to order. Thank You
    Molly and BMW North America.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 236,160
    WOW!!

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  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Excellent! Good on you!

    Regards,
    OW
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