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BMW 3-Series Oil Questions

1246

Comments

  • brianaudibrianaudi Member Posts: 9
    As I mentioned in a previous post, I just bought a 2006 330i with 24,000 kms on it.

    I have heard conflicting opinions on how often I should have an oil change done. The service manager suggested every 12000kms, but I feel that is far too high.

    Thoughts?
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Every 12k-17k miles (19000-27,000 km) or one year (which ever comes first) should be fine. Your car will tell you when to take the car to BMW for an oil change.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Trust the factory engineers. They are real smart and went to school a long time.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,497
    Every 12k-17k miles (19000-27,000 km) or one year (which ever comes first) should be fine. Your car will tell you when to take the car to BMW for an oil change.

    The one year mark is not okay according to the dealer, Rather, it's when the car tells you the oil change is due.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    The dealer is lying to you. Who do you trust - a dealer who wants to make money off an out-of-warranty oil change - or a manufacturer that wants to protect their brand?

    Who loses by you getting an early oil change? You lose cash/time, the dealer makes extra money and BMW is none-the-wiser of the dealer's duplicity. Who loses if you don't get the extra-undeeded oil change? The dealer loses extra money.

    BMW has a multi-billion dollar product-line to protect. Do you think they'd advise you to avoid oil changes if they were really necessary? The e46 came out in 1998 and with it came BMW's engine system that monitors your oil and pushes you to get a change at appropriate times. 9 years later have you ever met an e46 owner/former-owner who had engine problems attributed to following BMW's oil change schedule? no, you haven't. BMW might know a thing or two...they did design the car and they've got about a decade of experience following the once-a-year oil change schedule.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,497
    I'd be worried if I followed the advice of the dealer and the car itself. Frankly, I don't know who to believe.

    But... since I lease it may end up to be someone else's problem.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    If you leased, then follow the manufacturer's specifications to a tee. Your BMW should only cost you for the following during your lease:

    gas
    insurance
    tires
    payments

    That's it. You should not have a single dollar of maintenance expenses on a leased BMW. Follow the manufacturer. The dealer is a liar and he is looking to make money off you.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,497
    ..........The dealer is a liar and he is looking to make money off you.

    Not sure I follow you, if the dealer is advising me NOT to have the oil change till the car "tells you" to.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
  • brianaudibrianaudi Member Posts: 9
    I suppose I would agree then.

    Further to the oil change issue - Castrol Syntec Racing is reccomended.

    Though I have been told Mobil One is the way to go also. Opinions?
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I'm not sure I know what "Castrol Syntec Racing" oil is (unless it's the 10W-60 stuff that the "M" cars use). For all other BMWs you have three basic choices here in North America:

    BMW Synthetic 5W-30
    German made Castrol Syntec 0W-30
    Mobil 1 0W-40

    I have heard (but not yet confirmed) that Valvoline now has a synthetic oil that has been BMW-LL01 approved. In addition, I have yet to see any UOAs showing that it is up the task and I personally won't be using any cars of mine as test mules. ;)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • dhanleydhanley Member Posts: 1,531
    I think Voll-Synthese synthetic is considered acceptable for BMW's.

    http://www.dasautosport.com/khxc/ccp0-prodshow/Lubro2041.html
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,369
    Hmm, the link specifies VW and Audi but not BMW.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I didn't mean to say that there weren't a few others out there that at least in theory meet the LL01 spec, I just listed the ones that I know of that are certified to meet BMWs requirements AND are readily available at many local retailers and/or dealerships. ;)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Good point, the Lubro Moly only meets the BMW LL-98 spec and not the later LL-01 spec. I don't think any late model BMWs allow for the older spec.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • brianaudibrianaudi Member Posts: 9
    Come to think of it, the friend that suggested I used that "racing" oil drives a 2001 M5. That makes more sense.

    The guys at the dealership suggested Castrol Syntec. How many bottles would likely be needed for a full change?
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Most if not all recent non-"M" BMWs take seven quarts per oil change (assuming that you change the filter too).

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • idoc2idoc2 Member Posts: 78
    Shipo,

    You seem to speak with authority on many issues. I'd be like to use Mobil 1 0W-40 as its a few bucks cheaper per quart than BMW's branded 5W-30 oil and widely available but where did you learn it was an acceptable substitute? Also as its no where in my owners manual, aside from carefully measuring what comes out or asking the service department at my local dealer how can I find out how much oil to put in my 2007 328xi.

    Thanks,

    Idoc
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    I'd be like to use Mobil 1 0W-40 as its a few bucks cheaper per quart than BMW's branded 5W-30 oil and widely available but where did you learn it was an acceptable substitute?

    I'm not Shipo, but I believe that I can provide the answer. Your car requires an oil that meets BMW's Longlife 01 specs. There are three readily available oils that meet this standard: BMW 5W-30, Castrol Syntec 0W-30, and Mobil 1 0W-40.

    how can I find out how much oil to put in my 2007 328xi.

    My understanding is that the sump capacity is 6.9 quarts; most people just put 7 quarts in.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • idoc2idoc2 Member Posts: 78
    Your car requires an oil that meets BMW's Longlife 01 specs. There are three readily available oils that meet this standard: BMW 5W-30, Castrol Syntec 0W-30, and Mobil 1 0W-40.

    Thank you, but does anyone have a reference to some source document from which this list comes?

    Idoc
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Yup, exactly what my buddy roadburner said, the three oils he listed are the only ones that I'm aware of that are available here in the U.S. that meet the BMW LongLife-01 oil specification. FWIW, the weights are Mobil 1 0W-40 (and no other Mobil 1 version), Castrol Syntec 0W-30 (which is made in Germany and is the only Castrol Syntec that qualifies), and of course the BMW/Castrol 5W-30.

    A few other points:
    - There are many other oils around the world that meet the spec, oils that may even be better than any of the above (although by how much, if at all, is questionable).
    - Both of my BMWs took exactly 7 quarts to bring the oil level up to the top hash mark.
    - BMW is one of the few manufacturers in the world that recommends an oil filter change for every oil change. New OEM filters are available via the internet and from your local dealer. Don't mess with Fram and other wannabe filters.
    - I'm surprised that your manual doesn't specify how much oil, both of the manuals for my cars listed 6.9 quarts in the "Capacities" section.

    Let us know how you make out. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • idoc2idoc2 Member Posts: 78
    Here's my problem. There seems to be a lack of real documentation that's been referenced in this and other forums with regards to what oil is acceptable.

    Additionally, as you know the E90's have no dipstick. The capacities section of my owners manual lists only gasoline and windshield wiper solution! The oil sensor only provides a reading after several miles of driving (the manual says 10Km) so without clear documentation one has to go on faith that 7 quarts is correct for a 2007 328xi. The guy behind the parts counter at my local BMW dealer said 8 quarts was required for an 328xi but only 7 quarts for an 328i. Seems unlikely. Perhaps a call to the service department will clear up the mystery.

    Idoc
  • idoc2idoc2 Member Posts: 78
    This answers my own question about source documentation for at least Mobil 1 0w-40 meeting the BMW LongLife 01 standard

    http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_0W-40.aspx

    Idoc
  • dmacciocdmaccioc Member Posts: 13
    Hey Bimmer Buddies--

    I would love it if someone could give me some honest recommendations regarding oil changes! I purchased a 2007 328i in September and I'm quickly approaching the 5k mile mark. I've had no problems to date and I haven't seen any signs of oil loss - at least, according to the digital readout on the OBC! =) I typically drive a 60/40 mix of around town/highway driving and average about 20k miles/year. I intend to keep this car for at least 5 years.

    My dad always helped me change the oil of my previous cars at 3k intervals and acknowledged that it was an excessive, but inexpensive way to maintain a car. I've heard oil changes at the BMW dealership can cost about $100 so I'd rather not change the oil as often, but I'm also weary of waiting until 15k based on what my dad always said. I realize his school of thought might not be right in this case. =)

    I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts on whether I should change the oil on my car at 5k or if I really can wait until 15k this first time around. It's a big deal for me to own this car, I'm proud of it, and I want to take care of it.

    And I'd just like to say, it's a pleasure to be in the company of people who share in the enjoyment of this amazing piece of machinery! Thanks in advance for your help.

    Best-
    Don
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    With the exception of the 335i twin turbo engine, I've yet to see any concrete evidence that suggests that late model BMWs can't go the full 15,000 miles on an oil change. Think about it this way, I bought one of the very first BMWs that came with the 15,000 mile recommendation, and that was nearly nine years ago. Since then there have literally been MILLIONS of BMWs built and sold world wide, and if there was a problem with running oil that long, we'd definitely be hearing about it.

    Think about it this way:
    - Current oil technology (especially synthetic oil) is far superior to the oil sold just a decade ago.
    - The current crop of BMW engines are VERY clean burning engines. The cleaner the engine, the fewer contaminates that the oil will be called upon to hold in suspension.
    - BMW typically incorporates an oil capacity that is at least 50% larger than that of similar sized (or similar output) engines from other manufacturers. More oil means that it circulates through the engine less often and that means that it gets exhausted at a slower rate.

    With the above in mind, there is only one definitive way to PROVE to your father and yourself that your oil is good to go for any given number of miles, and that is by having a Used Oil Analysis (UOA) preformed. In your case, I'd probably wait until about the 7,500 mile mark, take a sample and send it into Blackstone Labs. Regardless of what they say (i.e. "Change it now", or "Wait until 15,000 miles"), you'll have scientific proof of how long your oil will last. With that kind of data in hand, ain't nobody can say nuthin' to you about "change it early and change it often" or "wait until the Oil Life Monitor (OLM) says it's time for a change".

    FWIW, you might want to consider having it tested roughly once per year so that you can build a trend history and so that you can see how your engine is performing once it is fully broken in.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo

    P.S.
    If you do get a UOA run on your oil, please be sure to post the results.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    One tiny little issue...how the heck to you get a sample on these new tech, no-dipstick engines without pulling the DP or the OF??

    Can you get some from the oil filler cap? I am skeptical!

    Regards,
    OW
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Were it me trying to take a mid oil change cycle sample, I'd loosen the drain plug and ease it out until the threads were clear. I'd then hold a small picnic style paper bowl below the DP and tilt the DP so that a small stream of oil was allowed to run out. Screw the DP back in and you're good to go.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    OK..a little sloppy but the job will be done.

    Thanks.

    Regards,
    OW
  • dmacciocdmaccioc Member Posts: 13
    Thanks Shipo! I was hoping you would write back! =) I'm going to wait it out until the car says its ready (projecting to be at 15k), and will post UOA findings in a few months. Fingers crossed!
  • idoc2idoc2 Member Posts: 78
    I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. Quite frankly it has nothing to do with "knowledgeable or trustworthy". I'm sure you are both. It has to do with providing documentation of items presented as facts. In any serious publication one must always site references. As we all know, whether in discussion groups or even at sites like Wikipedia often facts get presented that turn out to be wrong. Documentation of facts like which oils actually meet the BMW's LL-01 standard are actually important otherwise misinformation is easily propigated. For instance, I cannot find (it may well be out there) documentation that German Castrol Syntec actually meets the spec.

    Don't take this so personally but if one "knows" something to be a fact then why not provide the source document? It simply adds credibility and if nothing else enhances your image as "trustworthy and knowledgeable".

    Idoc
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Per the Castrol web site:

    http://www.castrol.com/castrol/genericarticle.do?categoryId=82915470&contentId=6- - 006933

    SAE 0W–30:
    Castrol SYNTEC 0W–30 European Formula is engineered to meet the Mercedes Benz 229.5 specification. The 0W–30 viscosity grade is ideal for winter conditions where low temperature pumpability is required. A unique, low–temperature formulation provides exceptional pumpability in cold weather and allows for unaided engine starts down to –40ºF. Exceeds all car and light truck manufacturer's warranty requirements for the protection of gasoline, diesel and turbocharged engines where API SL, SJ, SH, CF or CD is recommended. Exceeds European ACEA: A3, B3, B4; VW 502 00, 505 00, 503 01; MB 229.1, 229.3, 229.5; BMW LL–01; GM–LLA–025, GM–LL–B–025 and the engine protection requirements of ILSAC GF–3 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Just a side bar, I went for my 2 year inspection on this '06 330xi (28,500K miles) and they did not change my oil. They will notify me in February for the 2nd oil change.

    Regards,
    OW
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Inspection? At two years they're supposed to do things like flush the complete brake system. Did they do that?

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Nope. Just inspections. This is just 2 weeks shy of 2 years. They will most likely call me in January and schedule the required maintenance corresponding to the oil change.

    I did ask them your question. I just follow what is required. To me it was a waste of time.

    Regards,
    OW
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I always tell people that German engineers are really smart and they go to school for a long, long time, and that unless you have some very sound basis for doubting their printed instructions (like documented cases of cars just like yours blowing up left and right), then you really don't have a cause for worry. It's like when they told people to use synthetic oil in their 1.8T Passats. They weren't kidding.
  • idoc2idoc2 Member Posts: 78
    Now that's what I'm talkin' about!

    Thanks.

    Idoc
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Agreed. That said, there are a number of cases over on BITOG where the twin turbo BMW engines have completely thrashed the oil (per the posted UOAs) in as little as three or four thousand miles. Granted this is a new engine and so there aren't a whole lot of high mileage engines out there to see what the UOAs look like once fully broken in, but I'm not even remotely impressed by the oil life in these engines.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    Granted this is a new engine and so there aren't a whole lot of high mileage engines out there to see what the UOAs look like once fully broken in, but I'm not even remotely impressed by the oil life in these engines.

    Then there's the M54 motor in my wife's X3 2.5 that totally depletes the additive pack in less than 9000 miles... :mad:

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I'd like to think that mess was the triumph of marketing over engineering (once again). I can't imagine R&D not foreseeing this problem.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I'll assume it's first-year issues that will eventually be addresses and resolved.

    Why does the oil take a beating in the turbo engine over the NA one? Does the engine oil lube the turbo bearings and reduce oil integrity faster?

    Regards,
    OW
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Does the engine oil lube the turbo bearings and reduce oil integrity faster?

    Yes and no. Yes, the engine oil does lube the turbo bearings, however, unless the there is a design flaw (like no water cooled turbine bearings, which should be on all new turbocharged cars these days) there's no reason why the oil shouldn't last as long as it does on non-turbocharged cars.

    I'm going to keep a close eye on the 335i oil thing because something just doesn't sound right.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • bdkinnhbdkinnh Member Posts: 292
    >"I'm going to keep a close eye on the 335i oil thing"

    Other than looking at UOA reports on BITOG, what will you be doing to keep a close eye on it? I ask because I have the same engine as the 335i, and I'd like to do the same.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    I'll assume it's first-year issues that will eventually be addresses and resolved.

    Well, BMW DID finally get around to fitting oil coolers to all N54s, but the problem is more than simply high oil temperatures.

    Why does the oil take a beating in the turbo engine over the NA one? Does the engine oil lube the turbo bearings and reduce oil integrity faster?

    The oil does see higher temperatures in a turbocharged engine, and it is largely due to the fact that the sump oil also lubricates/cools the turbo bearings. I find it interesting that Subaru has now issued a TSB stating that all of their turbocharged cars must be maintained according to their "Severe Service" maintenance requirements. That means a 3800 mile OCI- though I'll note that Subaru does not mandate the use of synthetic oil. That said, I don't believe that it is the turbo so much as the fact that the N54 also features direct injection. The naturally aspirated DI V8 in the RS4 and the Mazdaspeed DISI 2.3 are also proving to be quite hard on their oil. If -as some UOAs are indicating- the N54 can thoroughly trash its oil in less than 5000 miles, it means that 335i/535i owners who change their oil at the @15000 mile OCI will probably be the proud owners of twin turbo boat anchors before their cars reach 100000 miles.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Primarily from UOAs, both ones published and ones that folks have sent me via e-mail. Beyond that, I pick up information where and when I can. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    it means that 335i/535i owners who change their oil at the 15000 mile OCI will probably be the proud owners of twin turbo boat anchors before their cars reach 100000 miles.

    Holy Moley! What's up with that? Can the owners collect if they opt for extended coverage? I know some scoff at the extended maintenance vs. do-it-yourself but in these cases, hopefully, there can be remuneration.

    I would strongly recommend testing the oil at regular intervals for sure AND changing it every 5-7K miles for that engine just to stay sane!

    The sad thing is you need to go through hoops to check your oil life through the sampling process Shipo encourages if you REALLY want to know what's happening in your engine. A stinkin' $15 dip stick would have made the task a cinch.

    Regards,
    OW
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    I agree with you roadburner, but I don't know how much BMW is concerned with long life of the engines as they are selling more cars. Such a large percentage of BMWs are leased these days. I feel like it is a rarity that an owner (or leassor) keeps a car for more than the warranty/free maintenance period. By the time an N54 Twin Turbo Motor reaches the 100K mark it will be out of warranty (unless it is a CPO), on its second owner, and frankly not BMWNA's problem (I hate to say it).

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    Such a large percentage of BMWs are leased these days. I feel like it is a rarity that an owner (or leassor) keeps a car for more than the warranty/free maintenance period. By the time an N54 Twin Turbo Motor reaches the 100K mark it will be out of warranty (unless it is a CPO), on its second owner, and frankly not BMWNA's problem (I hate to say it).

    I think you are right. The question is whether a rash of grenading older engines will have any impact on new/CPO sales. I guess we'll see...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • bdkinnhbdkinnh Member Posts: 292
    On one hand, I think that BMW must know what they're doing because someone that is buying a CPO BMW this time around is a potential new car buyer next time around if they are happy with their ownership experience. If BMW knows that the 2nd/3rd owners of the N54 engines are going to have a bad experience, they're shooting themselves in the foot.

    On the other hand, watching BMW get rid of spare tires, dipsticks, oil coolers, and oil temp indicators tells me a lot as well. :(
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    On the other hand, watching BMW get rid of spare tires, dipsticks, oil coolers, and oil temp indicators tells me a lot as well.

    Yes, that about says it all...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Soon, the car will be locked down and no service able by the owner...only the mfg will have the key!!

    Regards,
    OW
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