Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Thank you
At this time, you don't have any open recalls on your Grand Prix. Also, just for your own information, you do still have an Emissions Select Component Warranty that is good until 12/15/2012 or 80,142 MI, whichever comes first.
I'm sorry to hear that the replacement of the sensors did not remedy the issue you're having with the traction control. When were you in at your dealership? We'd be happy to give them a call and follow up with them about your visit. Please send us an email with more information (include your name/Edmunds username, phone and address, a link to this post as my coworker Christina who answers incoming emails will need the last 8 of your VIN and current mileage, and the name of your dealership).
Best,
Sarah
GM Customer Service
I am old school. It does not have to be difficult. It's nothing more than nuts, bolts & wires. It's not that hard. But you do need a digital multi meter to diagnose it.
Each wheel has a AC gernerator that is used to tell the ABS brake module what that wheel is doing. These sensors are nothing more than just a coil of wires with an input & out put lead. Either they work properly, are open( broken wire) or are shorted to ground. Unplug each one & check the tresistance in them. If you have one that is different than the others----- youve found a problem Resistances values need to be 800-1600 ohms.
Once you've confirmed the sensors are all good & the lights are still on, there are other issues. You need to check the wiring from each wheel sensor to the ABS module. Again very easy. Plug all the wheel sensors back in, & then unplug the main plug at the ABS module. Remeber each wheel has it's own set of 2 wires that tell the module what's going on.
With the pin end of the plug facing you you want to check the wiring to each wheel. There are VERY small numbers moulded into the corners of the plug. Looking at the pin end of the plug the numbers start at 1 in the upper right side ending in 11 upper left side. The last row starts with 20 in the lower right & ends at 30 in the lower left.
#2 & #3 pins Right rear wheel
#4 & #5 Right front wheel
#20 & #21 Left Front wheel
#22 & #23 Left rear wheel.
Again check the resistance for each wheel at these pins. They should all be very close to the values you got at the wheel sensors alone. If there is a reading that is out of place, then the problem is in the harness, now you have to find it, but at least you know which area to be looking for.
If all your wheel sensors are good, & all your harnesses are good then you need to be looking at the ABS module itself. I'm sure theres a way of diagnosing this also WITHOUT a scanner ACCURATELY, but I didn't have to go that far because I found the issue in the left front wiring harness under the rad. A wire had broken. Repaired it, lights are out.
If you have any questions, I'll be happy to try & help you out, so you won't get it royally from your friendly local GM dealer or corner garage that BOTH don't know how to diagnose something.
Thank you for your support for GM over the last few decades - it is certainly appreciated. I see that you mentioned a current vehicle concern (the fuel gauge on your Traverse) and wanted to check in to see how the repair progress was going. Has your dealership been able to resolve it or are they currently working on this for you?
Sarah
GM Customer Service
Just purchased this car with 95,200 miles on it. Rubbing noise coming from brake area, ABS wants to kick in when going at slow speeds and in the midst of making a turn, the Check ABS light is coming on and the car seems to be stalling.. It will crank fine but then the next time it wont and you can smell gas, like it is getting to much fuel... remember when the older cars would get flooded out? That smell.. I can't have my 17 year old driving a car that is potentially dangerous. WHAT IS THE PROB? Warranty is most likely not an option for us so repairs need to be accurately diagnosed and cost effective! Lastly, we have checked the wheel bearings and they seem fine.
Thanks, Fairlyn :confuse: :mad:
I was able to contact Christina at GM, who seems like a very helpful person, but unfortunately she could only offer me a contact for customer service here in Canada. I contacted them and they were absolutely no help at all. I did put a meter on the pins on the connector that connects to the EBC and I got very similar readings. So my next step is to take the readings at the wheel sensors.
It's been too hot here lately so I will wait for a cooler day to jack the car up and remove the wheels to check the readings at the wheel sensors. don't really know what else to do.
I have a friend with a scanner and of course no codes show up.
Thanks for the help.
Did you end up replacing the harness or did you just repair where you found the break in the wire? I'm thinking I will try and replace the left side harness as this seems to be the side that is causing the problem for most people. Just wondering what is involved in re routing the new harness? Looks like it could be quite a job? And where would I splice in the new harness? Probably close to the module just before the connector? If this don't work the only other option I see that makes sense to me is to pull the fuse for the ABS and run the car without ABS. Not sure if that will work either but I'm hoping someone here has tried?
Thanks For The Help
Al
Thanks Again
Correct diagnosing has become a lost art in most stealerships, & garages today. The mechanics rely all too often on just replacing parts till they find the problem through trial & error (if they ever do). This is how they are trained today. The end result is the customer lands up flipping the bills on the mechanics quessing game for parts & labor replacing parts that don't require replacing.
The customer relations hotline at corporate levels are a freakin joke. Their job is to nothing more than relay phone numbers to their internal network of dealers.
Good to see you've taken the incentive into doing it yourself. The meter readings your getting are telling you there is contact in each circuit WHILE your testing, but remember all you need is a break in a wire that is making contact through a single strand of wire. What you'll need to do is flex the wires in the most common fail points, you'll see where they bend, while having an audible meter attached to that circuit. The most common areas of faults are in the front.
I have access to a wiring diagram for these cars if your interested. Just gotta fiqure a way of sending it to you since I can't find a way of attaching a file here.
Let me know
liteweight
Thanks.
I am unable to speak to the details of how product quality decisions (like recalls) are made. If you would like for us to look into the ABS/TCS concern you're currently having with your vehicle, please send us more information at socialmedia@gm.com (include your name, contact information, the last 8 of your VIN, and the name of your dealership).
Kind regards,
Sarah
GM Customer Service
Save yourself the aggrivation & money you will be pouring out of your pocket to a GM dealership & read post #163 & 176. I have yet to this date heard ANY POSITIVE responses from ANYONE who went the gm customer service route. Most are greeted with a huge bill & a car that is not repaired
liteweight
Just keeping my fingers crossed that it's all good now, pretty sure it is as the lights were coming on pretty steady the last few days.
Thanks Liteweight and Eddie, I hopefully managed to repair this GM Defect for less than it would have cost me for a scan at the dealer.
One Note for anyone else that is doing this, If you order the harnesses from Dorman the clips are larger than the OE so they wont fit. I had to salvage the clips from the old cable.
Thanks Again guys
Al
liteweight
Crimped both ends and then heat shrink to seal. Looks questionable but I think it should be OK. If I have problems with that side again I will solder and heat shrink both wires.
I have a 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix and have the same issues but I have no experience in auto repair and the last mechanic I went to replaced my Hub assembly as he said that is what the computer codes were saying they thought it was a bad sensor. This was not correct and I continue to have the issue. My question is do you think an inexperienced person can fix?
Al
After speaking with GM customer service Canada and even stopping by the dealer explaining to them what I found on the net, they blow you off and tell you they can't go by what is said on the net and need to put it on the scope to check for codes. Even though I'm 100% sure I'm not the only one that has complained or had this problem they insist on doing things by the book and that would have meant replacing parts until they found the problem. I must say that this really rubs me the wrong way.
I've been a loyal GM customer for the past 30 some odd years purchasing 13 new cars from them for me and my wife. This last one has been the longest I've kept a car as I retired 5 years ago and use to replace cars every 2 years. I'll be looking for a new car in the next little while and I don't think I will even go to a GM showroom. It will be my turn to blow them off. I might just follow that commercial you hear all the time. Have You Driven A Ford Lately?
I checked the voltage at the end of each harness connector to the wheel speed sensors with the ignition turned on. Three of them were at 4.8 volts, and the RF was varied between 2.1 and 3.6 volts. As I shook the harness next to the RF brake, that voltage at the connector would jump up and down. With the connector still disconnected from the wheel sensor, I probed the length harness with pins and a voltmeter. At the ABS ECM, the RF circuit was 4.8 volts like the other three wheel circuits. As I moved along the harness, it stayed at 4.8 volts until I got to within about a foot of the wheel sensor. Then it dropped off to the lower level I measured at the wheel connector.
I eventually pulled the wires out of the harness guard, and cut open some of the shrink wrap around the wires. Even though the car had not been driven for 5 days, the wires were wet, and the inside of the shrink wrap was full of sand and salt. I think what had happened was that the dirt there eventually degraded the insulation on the wires and was allowing some current leakage that resulted in the voltage drop.
I intended to rewire this part of the harness and replace the end connector. I couldn’t get a new connector at the auto parts stores, but three different stores and a Chevy dealer sold a relatively short section of the harness with a new connector. My conclusion is that this mode of failure must be common, or all of the auto parts stores and GM dealers would not be selling a replacement harness section.
After wiring in the new section on the end of the RF wheel harness, the ABS warning light is no longer coming on.
Recall ID # 51199 - SERVICE BRAKES, HYDRAULIC
Hide Details
Recall Date:
JUN 23, 2004
Model Affected:
2004 Pontiac Grand Prix
Summary:
CERTAIN PASSENGER VEHICLES WERE PRODUCED WITH LOWER THAN SPECIFIED TORQUE ON BOTH FRONT BRAKE CALIPER TO STEERING KNUCKLE ATTACHMENT BOLTS. WITH IMPROPER TORQUE, THE CLAMP LOAD AT THE JOINT MAY NOT BE ADEQUATE TO PREVENT MOVEMENT BETWEEN THE CALIPER BRACKET AND KNUCKLE.
Consequences:
DEPENDING ON WHETHER ONE OR BOTH BOLTS BACKS OUT OR FRACTURES, THE RESULT CAN BE LOCKING OF THE AFFECTED WHEEL DURING BRAKING AND AN ABRUPT STEERING INPUT IN THE DIRECTION OF THE LOCKED WHEEL, REDUCED BRAKING AND NOISE FROM THE AFFECTED WHEEL, OR SEVERING OF A BRAKE HOSE, INCREASED BRAKE PEDAL TRAVEL, AND REDUCED STEERING CONTROL. REDUCED BRAKING OR STEERING CONTROL COULD CAUSE A CRASH.
Remedy:
DEALERS ARE TO TIGHTEN BOTH BOLTS TO THE SPECIFIED TORQUE. OWNER NOTIFICATION BEGAN ON JUNE 28, 2004. OWNERS SHOULD CONTACT CHEVROLET 1-800-630-2438 OR PONTIAC 1-800-620-7668.
Potential Units Affected:
47991
Notes:
GENERAL MOTORS CORP.
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2004/pontiac/grand_prix/recalls/#ixzz2AAflaNRm
Thanks