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Buick LeSabre Starting/Stalling Problems
I have a 1992 buick lesabre limited and it has lately been acting up. when you press on the accelerator it surges and makes it hard to get up a hill. It also stalls when you are idling and not moving for example waiting at a traffic light. The service engine soon light is almost always on and I haven't been driving it because it isn't safe or dependable on the road. If you have any info on how I can fix it please tell me.
Thanks :confuse:
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Edmunds Answers: Le Sabre Engine Issues
Thanks :confuse:
See Also
Edmunds Answers: Le Sabre Engine Issues
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I've replaced the plugs and wires, air and fuel filters, changed the oil, repaired a leaking vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator and replaced the crank sensor. I've run a bottle of dry gas through the tank, thinking that maybe some condensation built up from sitting while it was for sale. And a bottle of fuel injector cleaner as well. Nothing has seemed to make the slightest bit of difference.
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
I have to apologize, I left out the part about the scan.
A very close friend of mine owns and runs a shop where I have my work done, or do myself if the job is not too hard. The day I brought it in to replace the crank sensor, about 2 months ago, he tried to read the code and could not. I guess in 94 GM installed a newer type of connection in the car where you plug in the reader (under the dash) however the newer reader won't connect to the car. I mean it plugs in of course but the reader doesn't acknowledge the vehicle. We searched for the older style reader connection under the dash and under the hood and could not find one.
You can try listening for the fuel pump to prime for two seconds when you turn the key to on without turning it to start. You can do that three times as a way to check if the backflow valve isn't holding pressure after the engine is turned off; three times rebuilds pressure completely in the fuel line.
You can check for spark by using a spare plug and putting the spark plug wire from the car on it and laying the plug on something solidly attached, grounded, to the motor. Have someone turn key and see if you get spark.
Pumping the accelerator pedal doesn't do anything in this day of fuel injection. If you think the car is flooded, hold pedal to the floor while cranking, otherwise keep foot off of gas pedal. The days of carburators have different algorithms for troubleshooting.
You would be able to smell gas at the exhaust pipe if you were flooded.
You may have an electronic spark control part failing when warm. You may have a crankshaft position sensor or cam position sensor failing. How many miles are on the car?
The last two guesses are from what I've reach in a Bonneville discussion of higher mileage failures that are odd in behavior, making them difficult to troubleshoot with codes.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I have been looking for a place to get some help for a 'do it yourselfer' who doesnt want to pour a lot of cash into a 13 year old car. We had a really rainy day last week and one road that I go through to get home from work had a substantial amount of water over it, after going through it (i was probably going 20 or so) I went about 200 feet and the sucker stalled out. After that it would not start, i sat there for 10 minutes or so and then it would start and run fora bout 3 seconds and then stall out. It did that several times. Since the last time it did that it has not started since and will only crank.
A buddy of mine and I looked at it today, we found that the plugs are not sparking. Took one out and cranked it and nothing. The wires and all are fine. Suspected the coil packs, took them off and took them to auto zone and they tested out fine. The guy at autozone said we might want to check the camshaft sensor which is one the side of the engine down by one of the pulley wheels, said if that gets water in it it will not work and will not spark.
To "test" that would be 36 bucks for a new one and have never replaced that before so am not even sure I can do it myself so I would like to have some semblance of it being a good idea before I do that. Obviously it wont start so if i need to take it someplace I will have to have it towed. (I was 3 miles away from home so a friend pulled it back to my house with his truck)
Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks! :sick:
Do the lights dim when you turn the key? Does the battery voltage drop below the orange line on the voltmeter while cranking or belw 10 volts on a digital readout?
Have you removed and cleaned both battery cables to get off corrosion? Have you cleaned both of the positive cables that piggyback onthe post. Check between them for corrosion and get bare clean metal contact. Check the short lead that grounds on the fender next to the battery. Check the lead at starter for corrosion.
I'd go with the easiest first. The cables and corrosion have given lots of people trouble. Your mileage is too low for crank position sensor problems and cam sensor.
Oh wait. When you put the key in, does the security light come on for 10 seconds and then go off or does it flash? Does it go off after 3 minutes. Could be the VATS system not reading the key chip...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Otherwise the car waits three minutes for a new key to be tried and hopefully get a good reading indicating a real key for the car is inserted.
If your car is running badly, it needs to be checked. I'm surprised the SES light isn't on. You could have low fuel pressure (fuel filter clogged?), fuel pump going out, you could be in limp mode--but it will not stall above a certain pedal amount, it just doesn't run great so you can get the car home for repair.
Yours sounds like you need someone with a TechII that can read the codes and who knows how to diagnose the problem--not just the circuit and sensor involved and replace parts without understanding what's happening.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
If the motor idles for 10 minutes it may start getting hot enough to send water back to the radiator--depends on outside temp.
The touchy throttle could be a throttle position sensor on the air intake. It changes resistance as you push down on the throttle and tells the computer how much air you're giving the engine so it can adjust the gas flow. But the piece needs to be tested to see if it's not making contact at certain points along its movement before replacing. It works like a rheostat for you dimmer on a light in the house.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
This buick has about 160,000 miles on it. I replaced the starter about three years ago, changed the valve cover gaskets last year and had the oil pan gasket replaced about 1 month ago. Regular maintenace items also.
What do you think I should try first, jumpstarting?
Clean up the cables on the battery post if you see corrosion, then jump start it but DON'T let the alternator do the work of re-charging the battery. Either take it to a station for a slow charge or better yet go buy yourself an inexpensive charger and let it trickle charge the dead battery overnight.
Please observe safety precautions when jump starting the car.
You mentioned an amp. It's possible your amperage load from an amplified is loading the motor too much.
Another possibility is coking up around the throttle butterfly valve. You can take off the rubber connector that leads the air into the throttle body. Then take of the snapring that holds the honeycomb filter in place. Carefully remove honeycomb, I used two paper clips bent as hooks, and then with a piece of wood and cloth use intake cleaner from a spray can onto the cloth to clean the black soot from around the throttle body interior and the butterfly valve itself. Mine had gotten so I could feel it let go when it would sit overnight and I'd press on the pedal slowly. It disrupts the ability of the air bleed that opens and closes to adjust the idle speed because it' calibrated for a certain air flow rate around the throttle platewhen fully closed. Gum that up and th idle control solenoid can't open up enough at times to bleed enough air
Some people remove the whole throttle body to do the cleaning. don't use a brush, the fibers can come out because of the solvent. Be sure to get air intake that says it's safe for catalytic converters. Some carburetor type cleaners aren't.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The caveat is many people say to buy GM pumps only. There has been trouble with some aftermarket pumps. It's a job I'd only want to do once. The Monte had 85K mi. It had been run low on fuel all the time after the guy inherited it from his father.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
But you need to go through the battery cables completely to be sure connections are not corroded and are tight. that includes the grounds and at the starter.
It could be low voltage from the battery not applying the solenoid enough that engages the gear and starts the cranking.
Park with headlights on where you can see them as in a garage. Turn key. If the click occurs and the lights don't dim as if under load, you may have bad solenoid or bad cable. If the lights are dimmed because the starter is drawing lots of amps while the key is urned to start but nothings happening may be the starter is defective, old, bad, gone.
The fact that it starts with the charger on boost makes me suspicious of the battery having a bad cell shorting out giving low voltage without the extra power from the boost.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Do you have any idea as to the cause??
Thanks
All three times at night and I have stopped for a light or sign and the car just quits, headlights go off, radio goes out, 12 volt power supply (radar detector) is also off, no dash lights, windows won't work. I open the door and the lights go back on as well as all the other things and I am able restart the car.
I was thinking the issue is in the wiring harness that goes from the car into the door and it is shorting. Funny thing is all the power goes out and no fuses have blown. Any one heard of this. Don't want to start taking stuff apart unless I am on the right track.
The battery is fine -- 12 v and checked out fine under load at AutoZone. Connections were clean and were cleaned anyhow. 12 v is seen at the fuse box under the rear seat and under the hood. There have been no issues with the car's electrical system or performance.
With the ignition switch off, the keyless entry works fine. There does not appear to be any change from normal operations when the key is turned to on, i.e., the radio works, wipers wipe, and driving lights turn on automatically (made in Canada). The tranny is in Park.
What seems very strange is that when the key is turned to start the instrument panel dies and the wipers stop (if I have them turned on), BUT THE HEADLIGHTS KEEP SHINING UNDIMINISHED. When the switch is released back to the on position, the instrument panel come back to life after a second and the wipers start again. The voltage at the battery when the ignition switch is turned to start drops only to 11 v. Now why is that? And where is the problem? :confuse:
Thanks in advance,
Al
P.S. -- I went outside to double check the voltages and had my son man the ignition switch. The first three or four times we still had no crank with a very slight voltage drop from OFF to ON and to START. However, much to my surprise, the next time the car promptly started as did the time after that!! I can upgrade my car from DEAD to TOTALLY UNRELIABLE but I'll admit I am clueless as to what is going on. My mechanic usually wants to see cars when they are symptomatic from an intermittent problem and not when they're working as they should, but that leaves me wondering when and where it will do this again -- hence the hope that someone knows whats wrong so I (or my mechanic) can fix it.
Finally, if all that fails, it could be a fuel pressure regulator near the fuel injectors. Hope that helps..Ron
2nd engine is now doing the same thing, however, if your check engine light is coming on, it is most likely the Mass Air flow sensor. Clean it only with Mass air flow sensor spray or you will ruin it. Next, I had the prom chip go on mine and it did the same thing. That is by the computer behind the glove box. Yep, you have to pull it out. Not a big job, just a few screws but it beats the neck twisting option of trying to dig it out under the dash.
posts as well and add some grease there too.
Finally, if that is not it, you could have a blown head gasket. As it heats up it expands and may be allowing coolant into a cylinder which will make it run rough or not start at all. A compression test will reveal the answer there.
I am working on a 1987, 4-door, US-made, Front-Wheel Drive, Buick LeSabre Sedan, with a 3.8 Liter, Transversely Mounted, V-6 engine.
It has Sequential Fuel Injection and an Automatic Transaxle. The Odometer reading is 112617 miles.
I got the car from my cousin who has records of service on it from the time he bought it new. It has been well maintained.
While driving, it stalled at a red light. It was hard to restart, but started within thirty seconds. After driving about two miles, it stalled while I was braking for the next red light.
The second restart was much slower and it backfired a few times before restarting. I was able to drive it for about another mile when it stalled. I coasted to a stop. It would not restart, and hasn't since. It is in my driveway, now. There was a lot of backfiring, but the starter did turn the engine over. It did seem as though there wasn't any compression, after a few tries, because it seemed to crank over too fast, and the backfiring soon stopped. Now, it justs cranks over and over, but still will not start. After changing the fuel filter, I tried again. No luck.
Before disconnecting any battery cables or going any further, I plugged-in my SunPro code checker into the ALDL jack. It threw only a code 12 over and over and over.
So, I checked the spark by removing the wire from the spark plugs, one at a time, on the left bank---the side of the engine closest to the firewall---and grounding-out a 12-volt, simple, probe-type test light to the engine block. Using wooden clothespins to avoid shock, I placed the needle into the end of the spark plug boot and touched the metal contact while my neice cranked on the ignition switch. No fire.
I only checked only that one side of each coil. There are three coils plugged into the top of the ignition module. I figure that all three of the coils wouldn't go south at the same time, and that if one side was good, the other should be, as well. So I disconnected the negative battery cable and removed the coils and the ignition module. I took it to the auto parts store and had them check it. They checked it three times. They tapped it on the counter to simulate vibrations while they checked it. It checked-out fine. They can't check coils. I would like to know the resistance values for these coils, however, in case I ever need to check one. I understand that the crank position sensor could be faulty, as could the cam position sensor, and the ECM. I need instruction on how to test these, and the proper resistance values that I should obtain with a multimeter.
I understand that the rubber part of the harmonic balancer could have deteriorated and caused damage to the crankshaft sensor, by wobbling and beating it up. I think that the harmonic balancer can be pulled through the fender well, but I'm not sure. I need as much info as possible before a further undertaking of this repair. I would like to know how to test the crank sensor.
Haynes and Chiltons manuals do not even approach usefulness for my purposes.
If anyone can help, or have any ideas or comments, please post them. I have no reliable transportation.
Thank you for reading this.
Jerry.
I don't recall if the cam sensor or the crankshaft sensor is needed for the basic spark signal. But I'm guess the camshaft is not turning or is way off calibration. Mileage is low for a failure though. Maybe near 200K it might happen.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I'll be sure to do that.
Or you might have low fuel pressure
Or you might have an electonic ignition problem
Or you might have a MAF sensor that's coated with goop giving bad readings.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The three coils are independent. Random misfires could be water fouling the plugs.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I can get you a description of doing it. I have helped. It is doable if you work carefully and slowly and label the small screws and things that come out so you know where they go back. Unbolting the brackets for the injectors and wiggling the to get them loosened so they pop out for you is the most tedius. The exhaust crossover pipe does not have to be removed if yours is like the 98 I helped work on.
The throttle body is held on the end of the UIM by 3 small bolts. One is partially blocked by a small black bracke that helps lift the weight of the throttle body. That bracket can be tapped toward the front of the car out from under the small bolt and then it can be accessed straight on from the right.
You will have to decide whether you are going to redo the gaskets between the lower metal intake and the block/heads. If so it becomes a bigger job with more tedious pieces. The car I worked on did not change them.
The Dorman UIM sold by Advance Auto and others has replacement EGR pipes that come up out of the Lower Intake Manifold and carry the hot gases through part of the Plastic UIM. These are smaller than the originals and leave more room around the outside for intake air coming into the manifold to cool the pipe and the plastic. I'd recommend that kit. The little pipe is a press fit into the aluminum LIM plate.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Drain the oil even if you're not ready to work on it and put in a few quarts of cheap oil to flush out any coolant.
Expect the spark plugs to need replacing also. They can be salvaged by cleaning while they're out. But if you're due for plugs, just change them.
Occasionally people complain that oxygen sensors are damaged by coolant going out the exhaust. Dn't change it unless there are symptoms afterwards.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
From what I've read from other H-body cars including Bonnevilles and LeSabres, strange things happening means look first to the battery and connections to be sure a low or erratic voltage there isn't hurting the systems. The starter not working one day and then working again could be that.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Was there a difference in skill level or effort or anything about the third shop that made them capable of finding the problem that wasn't there in the first shops? Was the third shop a dealership which usually has more knowledge about quirks that develop in cars via their companywide information sharing?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,