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Comments
As with any tool you used to do research with, its my opinion that you should weigh the source of the information.
Does Toyota and Honda have a numerically higher 'reliability rating'? According to many publications, they do have an edge over Ford. So is your criteria to only buy the vehicle that has the 'highest' rating?
Does this mean that any other vehicle is 'unreliable'?.
Is that vehicle also rated 'highest' in other categories that might be important to you such as: value, performance, appearance, and dealer service?
Also sidekick:
You imply that the Escape spare tire is under the vehicle, it is not. If spare tire location was important to you, and you were really considering buying an Escape, then I would have thought you would be aware of this fact.
Anyone who thinks that Toyo/Honda drivers have no complaints about their vehicles ought to check out certain other threads on these boards. that point is well made.
Ford botched two new-model deliveries very badly a couple of years ago - the Escape and the Focus. After three years for Focus and almost two for Escape, most of these problems have been addressed and rectified, so if you are contemplating buying either new now, chances are pretty good you will find yourself in a reliable vehicle (this is more true for Escape, however - still one or two lingering things with Foci).
It is the style sometimes of the Big 2.5 to use their first-year customers as their testing guinea pigs, probably saves some R&D $$, but once things are sorted out they will mostly run with the best of them.
Rabuck: get a Tribute! Quicker handling and a firmer ride. I borrow my friend's Tribute occasionally, and it makes my 4Runner feel like the Queen Mary.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
'There are people out there who might consider purchasing another poor quality Mazda/Ford product after this experience, we however, will not. When our vehicle is finally fixed, we will be waiting for the next thing to go wrong or wonder if that trip out-of-town will include a breakdown.'
If I had only known what could go wrong back then I would not have waited to replace the vehicle.
I think everyone realizes when they buy a vehicle that they could be getting one with major problems. Everyone has their opinion on what is the better vehicle. Mine is based on experience with a number of cars over the years and talking to lots of people about their experiences. I have yet to find one person that regrets buying a Toyota or Honda. Also, I have looked through the problem areas for both the Highlander and CR-V and can assure everyone that a little wind noise, squeaky doors and the like are not a PROBLEM from my perspective.
But you should travel over to the Camry thread, and ask how many of those owners regret their purchase. I know how some of them will answer, because they have already posted that they regret it. Why? Because of all the squeaks and rattles in the '02 after it was released. Toyota has a handle on many of these now, and will fix cars for no charge, but the damage is done for a few of these folks, and they won't be back. Same thing for stinky '03 corollas using the high-sulfur fuel of the other 49 states (and no fix there yet).
I bet some of the folks with the affected transmissions in Honda Accords, TLs, and more have had second thoughts about ever buying Honda again too.
A lot of car buying comes down to playing the odds, and no carmaker is immune from producing a bad batch once in a while. Some are more prone to it than others, that is all. In general, it is best to avoid a first-year run of a given model, especially if it is an American make.
Regarding those owners of HLs and CRVs with wind noise and squeaky doors you mentioned: it may not be a problem to you, and I know you are suggesting they get some perspective, but believe me, it is a problem to them.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
nippononly is right, some manufacturers are more prone to failures than others when you compare new models (as a whole the percentages may even out a little more). You're taking a chance no matter what you buy. Just make sure you're happy with the vehicle before you buy. You're the one who has to drive it every day. You don't want to end up driving something you hate for many years to come.
True, but when you ask many of the same posters what they expected, you get, "zero problems for the first 100,000 miles", which we all know is unrealistic. Honda's reputation as a solid car maker has fooled some people into thinking that it's possible for them to be a perfect car maker.
In a second note, get out on the net and you will also find plenty of satisifed Escape/Tribute owners.
Sorry about your Tribute. But I own a 2001 Escape with just over 21,000 trouble free miles. It has performed wonderfully. I also conducted a personal non-scientific poll. over the last year I approached well over 30 Trib/Escape owners of different models/trims/years. Not one had such huge problems it would cause them to dump their vehicle or never buy a Ford/Mazda. And with sales on the upward, looks like the word is spreading. These are reliable/quality built vehicles.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Also, nippononly, you are exactly right. Last night I went to post a message and it disappeared, and it was saying the same thing you are saying. All car companies have Lemons. Its hard to avoid. But, its sad that one bad car turns some people against going back to that company. I have had some trouble with my Suzuki, and I at times have said I'd never buy another one, but I really like the XL7. The reliability rating on it isn't great, but its just below the industry standard at -6% (industry standard is 0%), versus the Escape/Tribute which is -32%. The Honda CRV is 30% above industry standard, via consumer reports. So, to make this shorter, reliability and dependability should be "job one," not whether it looks good, rides good, or performs good. IF you can get all of those in one package, good for you, but I doubt it happens very often.
Steve, Host
You think?!
What's the term scape always uses? I think it's "Brain washed by Honda" or something to that effect.
"So, to make this shorter, reliability and dependability should be "job one," not whether it looks good, rides good, or performs good."
If that's what you look for in a vehicle, then so be it. On the other side of the coin is someone like me who loves to drive. I don't care if it can get me from A to B reliably. Especially if that rating came from a magazine. I'd rather enjoy each trip in a vehicle I love than look forward to ending them in a vehicle I don't really love, but will last for a long long time. I don't think I could ever live with one vehicle for ten plus years anyway. I'm ready to push our 96 Civic off of a cliff just to have an excuse to get something new!
scape,
Not to add any fuel to the fire, but...
I just ran a CarFax report on our 96 Civic the other day. Guess what it said at the bottom under 'Recall Information'. You guessed it. I don't have the report in front of me for the exact words, but it went something like this: 'Honda Motor Co does not report recall information to CarFax...'. From what I've gathered, most if not all other manufacturers do.
The only place that you can find Honda recall/TSB info is on the NHTSA's web site. So it's not completely hidden. But it does seem to be hidden from all the popular consumer sites where you have to pay to see the info.
Just thought it was interesting how these little "hidden info" messages keep popping up.
In my experience, the people in question have frequently been first time Honda buyers. They got wind of Honda's reputation through others who have had "perfect" experiences and expected the same. So I doubt it.
"Brain washed" are those who feel that Honda can do no wrong. "Brain washed" are those who cannot accept that FWD cars can handle as well as some RWD cars. "Brain washed" are those who assume that ladder frames are safer than unit-bodies. "Brain washed" are those who (despite personal reports, statistics, industry commentary, and the writing on the wall) believe that the Escape is perfectly reliable.
You can find brain washed people for every car make, design, or model.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Our other vehicle is a 2002 Ford Escape which replaced a 98 Escort ZX2 (one of the first off the line in the Spring of 97) when we bought a house and needed extra cargo space.
The Civic was bought solely by my wife, before we were married, because she thought it was "cute". She was going for looks, not reliability and I had no say in the matter. I would have never picked it myself which is shown by my choice of the ZX2. I could have just as easily bought a Civic. Sorry for the confusion.
"You have what is statistically one of the most reliable vehicles on the road."
The Civic's engine has been very reliable. Unfortunately I can't say the same for the rest of it. If things keep breaking or falling off of it, we'll have a nice replacement lawn mower engine in the future.
So no, I don't care if my vehicles get me from A to B reliably. The Civic will now most likely be replaced with a 2004 or 2005 Mustang. CR is probably already rating its reliability at about 50% below the average.
I'm pursuing the case with my wife's 2001 Toyota RAV4.
We have tons of problems with RAV4 and every month dealer "could not replicate the problem".
Odie
I agree 21,000 miles is not that many miles. There are other web sites around the net with people reporting upwards of 40K - 50K on their Escape/Tribs and not having any problems. So far my 2001 Escape XLT V6 4wd has performed flawlessly after 21,000 miles.
The justification is usually that the tsb info is meant for mechanics and consumers will just come to the dealer demanding that work will be done, even though the tsb may not apply to their model or VIN, or their car may not be experiencing the problem addressed by the tsb.
Sort of like reading a Merck manual and deciding you have some rare disease :-)
Steve, Host
Our Civic's CarFax report stated that Honda will not report recalls to them. Since recalls almost always address some sort of safety concern it does not seem right to hide them. TSB's I can understand, although not condone.
On the other hand, CarFax could pull the recall info from the NHTSA. I don't know why they just don't.
scape,
CarFax does not include TSB's with their reports no matter who the manufacturer is.
*edit*
I did a little reading on the CarFax site. It seems that you can get vehicle recall information from them, but only nine manufacturers will give you recall info on your specific VIN. Honda obviously is not one of them.
It's not that big of a deal I guess.
Steve, Host
My wife and I liked that the Escape has a slightly softer ride and seemed more trucklike. The Tribute was a little fancier, maybe a bit too fancy, on the inside to us. More carlike would probably be a better term.
At the time (about 13 months ago), Escapes and Tributes were very hard to find on the dealer lots. But the Escapes came better equipped than the Tributes we were seeing on the lots (very few of each), and on the order sheets. With the Tribute it was pretty much all or nothing and the popular features were grouped with some not so popular features. There were many more flavors of the Escape to choose from because everything was pretty much a la carte. I don't know if this is a problem now though. Mazda tends to do things like that early in the model years.
I feel its very, very unfair when Honda/BMW and whomever hides TSB information from the public. It makes other Brands look more problematic or of less quality. Escpecially when other automakers are opening there skeletons in the closet information.. and others choose to hide it... I will post this around the net and see what others think....
But he did not like the cladding, and when I mentioned to him that the Trib was the same vehicle, only no cladding AND quicker steering, he was onto it like a shot. He loved all the chrome as soon as he laid eyes on it.
His was built after July last year, has 13K now, and no problems, stalling or otherwise.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I just purchased my '03 escape last week. It has only 55 miles on it. Everytime I turn off the engine I hear some metal cranking noise form the engine. It last for a few minutes. I talked to the service dept. and they said the noise is caused by the cooling -off of the heat shield and it is very common (and perfectly normal) for a new car. Is this ture? Does anyone experience the same noise?
Thanks
DK
Sounds like their right. All vehicles make that noise as far as I can tell. The noise is a little louder in cooler weather for obvious reasons.
Haven't you ever seen that Cadillac CTX commercial where they guy's driving down the highway and the car turns cherry red to simulate that it's going really really fast? When it stops, and thus begins to cool, Cadillac cleverly added in the heat shield clanking noise for effect. It's not uncommon at all to hear that sound.
My engine makes the same noise after you turn if off. Perfectly normal. My wifes Accord does the same thing too...
Personally I like the cladding. I use my Escape to get to my favorite fishing spots, hiking spots and I believe it has helped with less rock chips. As an FYI to all those who have the cladding. Use a product called Black Chrome by Turtle wax and It will make it look like new every time!
officeroz
If you drive mountain roads or enjoy curvey highways, you will prefer the Tribute suspension and better low end pick-up
Any help greatly appreciated.
You say you have 25k on your tires... if they are due to wear out around say 30 or 35 k ... I would just replace all 4. But that's only my opinion.
Odie
Anyone else having similar problems.
If you purchased a 2003 Tribute you may want to look under the dash and under the driver seat.
Thanks.
dkexplorer
rotarykid Jan 23, 2003 10:38pm
Try a discussion search for "wind" for other posts about this issue.
Steve, Host