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Can Chrysler Turn It Around in Bankruptcy?

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  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,332
    "I hate sounding stupid,but..."

    You ask a logical question. Here's my understanding of "cab forward": It's a term, although not necessarily a concept applied by Chrysler Corp. to the design of its all-new '93 Chrysler Concord, Eagle Vision, and Dodge Intrepid front wheel drive large cars. In contrast to a relatively long hood and short rear deck design, or a normal length hood and rear deck, the cab forward design attempted to maximize passenger space, especially, and also trunk space, by featuring a relatively short hood and a steeply sloping windshield. I believe another feature of this design was to make track wider, relative to the width of the car. Chrysler's cab forward '93 cars were notably larger and, arguably sleeker than previous ground breaking FWD designs, such as the first and second generation ('87-'91 and '92-'95) Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable

    I think the use of the cab forward term had as much to do with marketing as with configuration, because one could argue that the Honda Accords and Civics of the mid-late '80s and early '90s featured similar design language, but Honda didn't employ the cab forward term to their styling.

    For all the many quality issues that plagued the domestic models of the '80s and '90s, many featured innovative styling (eg. GM's '85 large bodies, Ford's '83 T-bird and '87 Taurus, and Chrysler's Cab Forward and '95 "Cloud Cars" [Chrysler Cirrus and Dodge Stratus]).
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,945
    There's a pic of a car at this post that's the opposite of "cab forward."

    boomchek, "Mystery car pix...." #18463, 27 Sep 2008 12:54 pm

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  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,332
    I would add that I believe that "cab forward" was an attempt by Chrysler to transform itself from a manufacturer of stodgy K-cars and K-derivatives to a styling leader. After all, it had tried this three times before; in the '30s with the Airflow, in '55 with its "Forward Look" cars, and in '57, with its dramatically new fin-themed cars. Remember, the '93 cab forward, and '95 cloud cars and Neon were conceived when Lee Iacocca and Bob Lutz managed the company, and these guys were not averse to risk.

    Ahh, if only the quality and reliability of Chrysler's cab forward cars was as good as the styling...
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,695
    Chrysler is laying off 25% of its salaried workforce by the end of the year? That's not far off. Maybe pretty soon the whole company will just disappear - POOF!

    On the bright side, I guess they have all the bidders they want in the sale of the Viper program.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • kreckerkrecker Posts: 10
    My Jeep Liberty just had a major engine problem. This does not appear to be isolated to only Jeeps engines. My Jeep had 82K miles. Dealership stated valve seat came loose putting a hole in the piston. This has been reported in ALLDATA reports recently yet the word is not getting out to the general public. A reliable friend of mine said carbon built up can't cause the resulting damage and there is a major manufacture flaw in the material they used. The resulting hole in the piston is a defect in the metal. There appears to be a trend here and the manufacturer is not saying anthing including a recall notice. Has anybody else had any Jeep engiines vakve replaced or major engine repairs. We only discovered this by demanding to see and take photos of the resulting problems and it was evident it was a manufacturer defect.
  • I think Chrysler would be liquidated *tomorrow* if Cerberus Capital could find buyers for the pieces. Selling the company or any large part of it is out of the question; there are no interested buyers, and no investment capital even if there were.

    Finding partners or trying to figure out how to run the company more cost effectively would be logical steps if this were 2006, but it is too late now.

    My hunch is that we'll know a lot more by the North American International Auto Show.
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Posts: 936
    Do you think that Chrysler will go the way of Studebaker,AMC and Hudson? So what do you think would happen to that lifetime power train warranty that recent purchasers were promised? :confuse:
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 22,143
    In my opinion, the only thing that "Cab Forward" really gave you was a huge dashboard and huge rear package shelf, and sharply sloping windows that would make both impossible to clean. It might have made the cars look sleek and futuristic, but I don't think it really did anything for interior room. That was the wheelbase, pure and simple.

    I was always impressed with the amount of legroom that the Neon had in it. However, the first-gen model was on a 104" wheelbase, and 105" for the second. Just for comparison, some midsized cars were in range of that. The Chevy Celebrity was 104.9". The "small" Ford LTD/Mercury Grand Marquis was 105.6". And Mopar's own Dodge Dynasty/Chrysler New Yorker was only 104.3". The older Dodge 600/Chrysler E-class/New Yorker/Plymouth Caravelle, also a fairly roomy car, was only 103.3"! I think the first Ford Taurus was around 106".

    Similarly, the Dodge Stratus/Chrysler Sebring/et al sedans were decently roomy. I think their wheelbase was around 108". My old 1980 Malibu, with a 108.1" wheelbase, was about as roomy inside, and it was a coupe. The sedan was a bit roomier.

    My 2000 Intrepid's wheelbase is 113". That car replaced a 1989 Gran Fury I had, a box on wheels if ever there was one. The Gran Fury dated back to the 1976 Volare, wasn't exactly the ultimate in space efficiency (decent for 1976, but NOT 1989!), and rode a 112.7" wheelbase, yet I swear it was roomier inside than the Intrepid. Maybe a little tighter in the back, but it more than made up for it up front! The only thing I really hated about that Gran Fury was the steering wheel location. Too close to my chest. And it had an airbag, so I'd hate to think of some little old 5'2" lady driving one and getting into an accident!

    It's kinda funny how Chrysler has a knack for making cars that look nice and futuristic but fall apart, or are somewhat conservative and stodgy but last forever. Too bad they couldn't strike a balance somewhere!
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,205
    1957 Forward Look Styling + 1949-54 Briggs Body Quality = Perfection
  • If GM takes over Chrysler, would it be likely that within five years, Chrysler disappears in favor of Buick, Dodge disappears in favor of Pontiac and Chevy/GMC trucks?
  • dtownfbdtownfb Posts: 2,915
    Your guess is as good as anyone else's. Some are talking a merger of products; some are predicting eliminating all of Chrysler except Jeep and the minivans; and recent talks discuss more of a slow death like you are alluding to. I think all is on the table and depends on if the government hands them over $10B. You'll probably hear more in the next few days as Cerebus seems eager to get this done before the election.

    I can't see the government supporting this merger if it means eliminating 40,000 jobs which some analysts are predicting. That makes absolutely no sense to use tax dollars to support job elimination. Let the companies go bankrupt and then help the workers with that $10B.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,695
    Chrysler will pull plug on hybrid Aspen, Durango

    Chrysler LLC will stop producing its first two hybrid-electric vehicles slightly more than two months after they started arriving in dealerships.

    This summer, Chrysler introduced the Chrysler Aspen and Dodge Durango Hemi hybrid SUVs to great fanfare. Production began in August. But the two were doomed to a short lifespan from the beginning. They are made at Chrysler's Newark, Del., plant, originally scheduled to close at the end of 2009.

    But slow full-sized SUV sales pushed Chrysler to move the closing up a year. The company announced last week it will close Newark at the end of this year. Chrysler has no plans to produce the hybrid SUVs elsewhere, said spokesman Todd Goyer.


    They talk about producing a hybrid Dodge Ram in 2010, and promise that "more hybrids are coming", but it's all just spitting in the wind. There isn't a chance the current management team will still be running this company in two years, and there's a fair chance Dodge won't be around at all...

    http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081029/FREE/810299993/1528/- newsletter01

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,945

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  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,332
    "Hyundai denies interest in Chrysler's assets

    By MarketWatch
    Last update: 10:31 a.m. EST Nov. 8, 2008Comments: 7
    SEOUL (MarketWatch)

    Hyundai denied on Saturday a wire service report that it has been in talks with Cerberus Capital Management LP about buying Jeep or other assets from Chrysler LLC.

    A Hyundai Motor spokeswoman said the carmaker isn't considering acquiring Chrysler's Jeep brand and other assets because it is focusing on completing its overseas plant construction. 'We have little room for acquisition of an overseas company such as Chrysler,' said the spokeswoman.

    Citing people with knowledge of the discussions, Reuters reported Friday that Cerberus is looking to renew talks with other potential bidders like Renault SA (and Nissan Motor Co."
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,945
    Hyundai denies interest in Chrysler's assets

    Must be a done deal eh? :shades:

    I'm not going to be too shocked to see a headline like "Apple and Chrysler?"

    Toss in Ford's Sync tie-up with Microsoft and all that will be left to do is for Google to buy GM.

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  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,310
    I think Enterprise, Budget etc should buy Chrysler, and then they can make their own cars to their own specs - they must be the primary customers anyway.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    I'm kind of tempted to pick one of these rare creatures up just as a collector's item.

    I'm loving how these Hybrids are being advertised right now when they won't be available shortly. What a waste of cash!
  • dtownfbdtownfb Posts: 2,915
    Interesting.... Better than the government support the big 3.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,945
    25th anniversary of the Chrysler minivan? Sweet.

    A friend is visiting and is driving a rental Grand Caravan. Nice rig - has more bells and whistles on it than the one I rented a couple of months ago.

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  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,695
    Well, the San Francisco Chrysler dealer closed up shop and sent all his vehicles back to the manufacturer today. No word of explanation or advance notice, just "business closed" signs on the doors and the cars on auto haulers out in the street.

    The local dealer where I am in the burbs disappeared in the middle of the night about a year ago. The cars actually sat there for a few months getting dustier and dustier before they got hauled away.

    No matter what Chrysler has in the way of a turnaround plan, it isn't going to do them much good if all their dealers go out of business first. Seems like of all the domestics, Chrysler has historically been hardest on its dealer body.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • fezofezo Posts: 9,442
    The Chrysler dealer 20 miles from here is gone, too. The smaller one in town is still here. I don't know how they are doing but it looks pretty quiet.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,695
    In a 30-minute radius of me, the number of Chrysler dealers has gone from about 6 to 1 in the last year to 18 months. That one seems to do a good business in used cars of all brands. They only have a very small stock of new Chryslers/Dodges (they don't sell Jeep). Indeed, after the "0 payments for 12 months" fiasco, Mitsubishi dealers got by quite well for 2 or 3 years selling mostly used cars. Maybe Chrysler dealers can do the same until Chrysler dealer network is pared down to the appropriate size. I just wonder if it will drop below that point. They DO need some dealers to distribute their vehicles if they hope to remain in business.....

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • fezofezo Posts: 9,442
    I suspect that the Chrysler dealers that are staying in business are the ones who have figured out how to run on a load of used car sales. Chrysler right now offers fewer interesting models than any other make - even the Koreans are doing a better job.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,945
    We're keeping score over in "Dude, where did all the dealerships go??"

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  • I think the Big 3 are on their own. No bailout money. But I also think that there is only going to be the Big 2. I think Chrysler is going to go out of business for good and the only ones who are going to survive are GM & Ford.
    I only say this because Chrysler is privately owned whereas GM & Ford have majority share holders. Just a prediction?
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,945
    "Relations between Chrysler's current and former owners turned ugly Wednesday when private equity firm Cerberus Capital Management LP accused Daimler AG of "intentionally and materially" misleading Cerberus before the German automaker sold Chrysler last year.

    By making the allegations public, Cerberus appears to be conceding that its Chrysler investment hasn't gone well for the New York private equity firm."

    Cerberus claims it was misled in deal for Chrysler. (Yahoo)

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  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    Cerberus didn't know what they were buying when they decided to pick up Chrysler- Cerberus thought it could buy it, touch it up a little bit here and there (drop a few models, dealerships, and assembly plants, clean it up a little) and then flip it for a profit.

    I don't think Daimler should be blamed for Cerberus' lack of success with Chrysler- anybody with a decent brain should have known that Daimler was looking to dump Chrysler for a reason, and that any buyer would need to put some serious TLC into the brand before it could become profitable again.

    The hedge fund quick fixes don't apply to the automotive business, and this is a classic example.
  • fezofezo Posts: 9,442
    Absolutely correct. Cerberus screwed up. Let them pay the price.
  • that we think it's funny that Cerberus messed up and is going to have to eat a bunch a cash, would we? With how much so many of us seem to love Wall Street and hedge-funder's on Edmunds here. :P

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

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