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Comments
I hope we can encourage Toyota to recall these vehicles since they know of the problem as a 'characteristic of that model'.
I've had no such vibrations during the 50,000+ miles I've put on my 4Runner.
I say, don't buy a 4 Runner until Toyota recalls all of those with this problem and fixes them. I do own a Tundra which I love to drive and have over 80,000 miles on it with only a battery replacement being needed. I will not own another Toyota unless they fix this problem which they admit is "characteristic of this model". Yeah, right!
The basically new 4Runner sits in my garage as it's 'damaged' from the factory due to poor design.
Let me say that I've owned Toyotas for 30 years and I was under the assumption the new 4Runner for $36,000 CASH would be like all the others.
NOT!
Toyota IMHO is becoming like GM, Ford and Chrysler in that they say they're big on customer service but when it comes to handling this resonant vibration, all I got from virtually everyone at Toyota, top to middle to bottom was NOTHING!
DO NOT buy a 4Runner until they do a TSB (technical service bulletin) to fix the problem! Toyota has the means to fix it and they do so with the LX470 but they won't fix the 4Runner because it's much less expensive and less profitable than the Lexus counterpart.
This is the first time I've ever posted anything negative about Toyota but they have been running me hard, trying to b.s. their way into having me 'go away'.
But I will not!
I'm here to tell you to NOT buy the vehicle!
So, if anyone is successful in getting Toyota to fix this problem, please post it here.
Thanks,
Jim
"ST001R-05 050908 Steering - Highway Speed Steering 'Flutter'". They list three possible fixes/causes: Flap spots on the Dunlop Tires, Increasing the Preload on the Steering Rack Assembly, or an Increased Mass Steering Wheel.
Hope this helps!
Thanks,
Jim
Apparently Toyota DOES know about this problem and is trying to fix it without having to do a mass recall.
Jim
If anyone has a copy of this TSB Number ST001R-05 050908 Steering , please email it to me at wa5tef@yahoo.com or post a reply here with phone number and I'll call you. This is beginning to look like another big coverup of something that could cost Toyota big bucks!
Thanks,
Jim
SO Folks, if you are as irritated at Toyota's irritating policy of ignoring this problem, please log on to their site and let's stir up enough complaints to cause a fleet wide recall! I would love to be the one to get to have my vehicle fixed finally after 4 years and almost 50,000 miles of driving with this steering wheel vibration. The web site for them is http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/. The lady I spoke with was very helpful and stayed on the phone with me a good 30 minutes trying to get me the information I needed.
Again, please log on to http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/ and post your complaints and let's get a recall on these vehicles.
Jim
Here is what I am going to do and would recommend others to do as well. First go to the NHTSA site and file a complaint, then I am going to print up fliers and leave one on every 4runner I come across in a parking lot advising them to log a complaint if they are experiencing this issue. It seems drastic, and I'm not big fan of leaving this kind of "junk" on someone's car, but the only way to get a "grass roots" movement is through information dispersion.
Dennis
I asked what the breakdown of charges were and it was about $700 for a new steering wheel (yeah) and about 200 for a relief spring and all day labor totaling $1200! My intent was to have the work done and if it fixed the problem, then go back after Toyota to pay me back but after the test drive fiasco, I decided not to fool with it. I Googled for Lemon Law Attorneys and got several links to see if one would take my case. I'll post the results but I am not dropping this yet.
Jim
The procedure for fixing the steering rack assembly is about 46 steps. The TSBs are not normally available on the internet, but sites like alldata.com and others have all the TSBs and repair procedures. I have found them useful. Unfortunately, I found this TSB after the warranty had expired. Like everyone else, I do plan on making a complaint with the NHTSA.
From all the posts here and what I have found elsewhere, Toyota is aware of this but trying to avoid a very costly recall or less, having to fix all the vehicles that were reported in warranty. If they have to recall, then all of us will get their cars fixed, maybe!
Keep supplying information here, I have since referred my stuff to a local attorney to see if there is a case we can pursue against both Toyota and the arbitration company. . .
Jim
I have tried everything I can think of and any good ideas others have offered and nothing fixes the problem and nothing points to the tires being the problem.
There is a real coverup going here since the arbitration hearing was lost. Now Toyota service managers in other dealerships, once they log in the VIN number, all at once switch sides, from wanting to help the consumer, to protecting Toyota. They have driven the vehicle and claim that they cannot feel the vibration!!! Now, it is not just me and my wife but anyone who drives it can feel it, EXCEPT Toyota employees. Go figure.
Jim
Keep posting anybody who has found a solution or has a similiar problem.
Thanks,
Jim
Was the steering wheel shakeing left and right or buzzing? The 'buzz' is what I feel and it is enough to numb my hands during a long drive. I know about drive line vibrations and mud on tires causing imbalance but this problem Toyota has with the 4 Runners if mostly fleetwide and they know about it but elect to deny it.
Thanks,
Jim
It was the buzzing that My wife and I felt. But like I said it was not there before I overgreased the slip joints. Toyota might know about the problem but dont know how to fix it. I just stumbled upon this by accident. I hope that this will fix the problem. This is what fixed my problem. Jim try greasing it until the slip joint stops expanding and then take it for a little drive and then remove the zerk fittings from both the front and rear slip joints and let the access grease out. It might take a couple of times to let the access out. See if that takes care of the vib. I have a funny feeling that the joint when serviced until you cant get anymore in it is just too much. And at the shops they are probably using pneu. guns, which will overfill very easily. Now I might be barking at the moon but I induced my own problem and this is what fixed it. I just drove our car from Washington to Calif and back with no vib what so ever. I hope this helps.
One more thought, I think that with the drive line slip joint being expanded all the way packed with grease the line will not flex and thus acting like a solid shaft with no give. It needs to be able to float. Oh and also when I packed it with grease there was no indication that it was full. In other words no grease squeezing out anywhere.
Steve
Thanks for the info. Sounds like that would a possible fix but I remember holding the brake (per Toyota's District Rep) and rev the engine to the vibration points and it still was there! The darn thing vibrates at 1200, 1700, 2150, 2700 and 3250 though it seldom sees the 3250 point. The brake test was only done on the 1200 and 1700 points but it was still in there! I am about to pull the last three hairs out of my head fighting Toyota about this. Odd thing, we have owned 9 Toyotas and NEVER had anything go wrong with any of them! My 02 Tundra 4x4 is an awesome truck with no problems at 90k miles but this 4 Runner is a lemon.
Thanks again,
Jim
Have been reading all vib problems over again and again. This rev test: Is your 4runner an automatic? I presume it is. These days most are. The interesting comment that I read was the one person that had trany problems and then started having vib problems. I still have a few ideas about this issue.
Steve
Thanks,
Jim
Well we are narrowing down the difference between mine and yours. I have the 5 speed auto. I wonder if this is a problelm with the 4 speed tranny? My thought is that the torque converter is out of balance. Since you do the rev test in nutral? I'm guessing at this as you did not state the condition which is was being rev ed. My senerio is because with the car in neutral and rev ed up the only 2 things that are a factor in this would be the harmonic balance and the torque converter spinning. Anyhow I hate to see people having problems with toyotas as I own 5 of them with no problems as such. Let me know your thoughts
Steve
Some updates on vibration fixes -
1) LP_4Runner on http://www.toyota-runner.org/ did the Lexus fix on his 4Runner and feels problem virtually eliminated (ie, 95%). Here is fix -
Parts:
41196–60010 Differential Dynamic Damper (1) - $69.54
91511–80820 Bolt (2) - $1.38
52380–60061 Front Differential Support No. 1 (1) - $143.42
51405–35101 Engine Under Cover Sub–assembly No. 1 (1) - $212.82
45219–60090 Steering Sliding Yoke (1) - $31.65
45203–60120 Steering Intermediate Shaft Sub–assembly No. 2 (1) - $167.27
Labor time was 1-1/2 hours, which he had done free.
2) The Lexus fix TSB is ST3010, which addresses STEERING VIBRATION & DRIVELINE VIBRATION/DRONE. I ran across serveral Lexus owners pushing for this fix.
3) For those wanting to reference the Toyota TSB ST001R-05 SEP 05 Steering - Highway Speed Steering 'Flutter', it is available on the Alldata site, url http://alldata.tsb.com/TSB/60/036007ad.html
Interestingly, this bulletin is listed under 2003 Toyota Truck 4 Runner 2WD V8-4.7L (2UZ-FE). I have read it extends to 45 pages, so it may have relevance to your particular truck or might not.
4) There's been a lot of comments on the vibration cause. Expert view on steering vibration does not rule out tires as possible cause. Here is info:
Steering flutter is a condition in which the steering wheel oscillates 5 to 15 times per second in the direction of the turn. It occurs at relatively limited but high speeds between 80 and 120 km/h (50 and 75 mph), and the oscillations on the steering wheel are fairly constant.
Main Causes:
• Tire run-out, unevenness, or imbalance
• Resonance between the tires and the steering wheel
Flutter is forced upon the steering wheel by the steering system resonating with tire vibrations, which are caused by imbalance, run-out, or unevenness in the tires.
--------------
So all this may explain why some people are getting it worse than others, and the key appears to be to kill the resonance with the steering fix. I have an '05 4Runner Limited with minor vibration, but thanks to all you, can pursue a fix if it worsens with an upcoming tire change.
Hope this helps -
John
I had this issue on an '03 V8 4WD and could never get Toyota to do anything about it. At the time I was pursuing it there was only a TSB for Lexus GX470 but they claimed that that TSB just didn't apply for my vehicle.
Yeah, right...both vehicles share the same frame, engine & powertrain but the TSB was just for the Lexus; thanks Toyota!
I have been able to minimize it by being picky with tire selection and balancing.
My question is now that there is a TSB (at least for the 2WD version), how do you get Toyota to do the upgrade?
-Eric
I did a test drive afterward and it rans smooth - no vibration. Vibration went away. I have no problem braking. My 4runner runs great now and I want to share with you all what I have discover and I hope that this would you too.
Ps. It is important to use the right tool. Wear protection, becarefully when working underneath your vehicle. Note: Rotor assembly is heavy; ask someone to you when removing or putting it back together. Becarefully with the brake line when doing this. Take you time.
Take care, and goodluck.
I did just that and it went away on my 4runner.
When you remove it, check the bearing for damage or excessive worn and replace if needed.
When putting it back together, make sure that you torque the nuts per spec. and use the right tool would help too. Spending an extra $20 to get the right socket for the nut is reccomendated. Don't guess....Use the torque wrench. I never like the clicking type (torque wrench) I can never get to work correctly. I alway use the convention type.
Goodluck
Doing a brake job and having the rotors turned has cleared the issue for me from my experience. Just recently I completely change the rotors (bought a good open market brand instead of Toyota) and then had a tire change (1998 4Runner Limited). Between the new rotors and new tires my vibration went away. My Wife's 2003 4Runner is showing the same issue and I plan on doing the brakes on it too.
It was a Toyota salvage yard in Colorado Springs (deals in Subaru's and Toyota's only) who alluded me to the rotor warping issue. And each time it's happen, I had the rotors turned and resolved the issue.
Sorry, I figure how to attach the image file, but you can also it in the Chilton's Repair Manual under wheel bearing.
good luck
I am having a vibration issue with my 94 4Runner. The car idles file but when I accelerate I get a vibration through out the car. The vibration stops when I take my foot off of the peddle. I had front end work 4 months ago and all went well with that. I had plugs replaced a month ago and all went well with that. I have 2 new tires on the back but older tires on the front. Besides that I can not think of anything that would be causing this vibration. Did you ever get a good solution? I ask because I have heard everything from tire rotations, to U joints, to engine mounts, but I have not seen any good solutions. Please help
2. At what speed does it vibrate? or it just vibrates when you step on the gas.
3. Check you timing or your timing belt and see if it is loose or damage.
4. I don't know the design of the engine, but if it is possible, remove the timing cover and turn on the engine then check if the belt is loose or deflect at amount. It should not deflect much. Sometime the belt tensioner came loose or the bolt broke off and it cause engine vibration or not run smoothly. I have seen it happened. It is hard when diagnose when you are unable to hear or see the car to determine cause of the problem, but try checking what mentioned above.
I hope that help.
Can
Re Q2: The vibration starts as I accelerate. There isn't a defined speed.
Re Q3: My timing belt is not the issue but that was a good suggestion. I had my timing belt replaced last year. So we are good there.
What I ended up doing was I took it to the shop. The shop explained that I have a "U Joint" issue. They also explained that I need to have my front barings replaced and greased. I pick up the truck today and will give an update when I know more.
So this is to be continued...
Now, I have an 08 4Runner. It had really frightening vibrations, especially when weight was added in the cargo area, and when making turns that had a bump or two. But on a smooth freeway, half full of gas, no corners - it was smooth. The car only has 21k miles on it.
So, one shop trip they did an alignment. That did help make the car track nicely (not vague or twitchy on the freeway), but of course, the shimmy was still there. I had my Michelin tires balanced by a tire shop that had a nearly new Hunter (and all the claims of how they calibrate it often). They said they didn't need any special adapters to balance the wheels, and suspiciously, they had very thick weights on just the outside of the wheels (not a good sign). The tire shop balance job did improve things a bit, however the car still had some bad vibrations - the steering wheel bounced / rotated side to side nearly 2 inches at times. Very unsettling.
Once one part of the suspension was vibrating with the road speed, other parts of the suspension and drivetrain seemed to "chime in" and resonate with each other .
Today, I got my car back from Bob Smith Toyota in La Crecenta. I left it there and just told them to please fix it, even if it takes a week. Good news! They balanced the tires very carefully, using a newer Hunter. When arrived to pick it up, I noticed that the weights were in the middle of the rim, on the inside, not those big weights on the outside. They also replaced both front shock absorbers because the left one was faulty. The tire balance was not enough by itself.
Now the car drives great - tracks well, no "fluttering", just right on, on bumpy freeways, around corners, whatever - all good now. It is odd that a nearly new car could have a bad shock absorber, but it obviously did. Cool that somebody actually checked things!
I'm not saying that there are no other issues that happen with other models, or other people's 4Runners, or that what fixed mine will fix yours. On this forum (I was lurking, wishing somebody could come up with a fix for me!) people mention 4Runners that have completely different suspension designs, tire sizes and age/condition. What I am saying is that taking the car to somebody who cares , who at least actually does balance the tires and look at the suspension, plus drive it and work with the Toyota reps made a huge difference in my case. After reading this forum, I thought that Toyota would just shine me on. Hopefully, this good experience was not just luck - they got it done this time.
Sadly, I was unable to convince anybody there to make the 2010 model more appealing to me - I'm probably going to keep my 2008.
I hope that this helps somebody who has issues with a newer 4Runner, or is as frustrated as I was.
See ya on the trails.