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2007 Toyota Camry Transmission Questions

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  • mackabee, I get the sense you work at a Toyota dealership. A couple of questions
    1. are people, in general, for the most part happy with their Camry's
    2. is Toyota what it professes to be? a company that cares about it's customers and the reputation of its cars?
  • kiawahkiawah Posts: 3,666
    Joel,

    When you are having this sawtooth cruise control problem, how fast are you going, and what is your rpm?

    Assuming that the original rpm's are lower than 2K, can you try a test along the same road....drive faster to get your rpm's up at say 2000 and then another at 2500, and see if that doesn't stop the sawtoothing.

    At those RPM's, the engine has more torque and HP, and I'm thinking it will hold the target speed.
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    Dwyane, how has this affected you personally? Have you been mistreated by Toyota Motor Sales USA or your local Toyota Dealer? I believe my post was very clear. What part did you not understand?
    :)
    Mackabee
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    How could the transmission on the Honda Accord be the same as the transmission on the Camry? :confuse: They are two very different cars!
    Mackabee
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    What is this "flare issue" you guys are talking about? Explain the "symptom" and when does it happen and what happens? I'm lost on this one. I think I know what you are talking about but need elaboration on it please.
    :)
    Mackabee
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    What on earth gave you that idea?? :blush: Yes, I do work at a Toyota dealership. Been selling Toyotas for 10 years and driving them for over 26. Most people including myself are happy with their Camry. Even if I could afford a Lexus I would probably still drive a Camry. :) We currently have two in our household along with a Corolla (second one). Our first Camry was in an accident and totalled. It had 130k miles, 92 dx and we replaced it with a 93 which I drive daily. My wife drives a 97 that just went over 110k miles. My oldest son drives a Scion tC *(made by Toyota with Camry engine) and his wife drives a Corolla S. So you could say I strongly believe in their products.
    2. Toyota the manufacturer does care for its customers. The dealer network is where some of the customer service issues reside. There are a lot of what I like to call dinosaurs that still do business like they did 30 years ago. Slowly but surely these will go out of business or get taken over by other mega dealers. You are probably aware that the president of Toyota Japan is very concerned with the recent lapse in quality with some of our vehicles and wants the problem rectified. Toyota didn't get to where it is today by not caring for their customer base and making top notch vehicles.
    Mack
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Mack, You have miss-understood joel16's statement, he said the 190HP Honda and the 177 HP honda likely have the same transaxle.

    But I wouldn't be so quick to jump in and assert that the Camry and the Honda do not have the same transaxles. The japanese manufacturers are not any different than US manufacturers in that regard, they often "share" the same suppliers. Is there any japanese manufacturer, or even asian for that matter, that doesn't use NipponDenso as the supplier for climate control systems?
  • kiawahkiawah Posts: 3,666
    Mack,

    Previously described in post 566 & 574.

    The transmission 'flare', happens on 6 cylinder engine/6 speed transmissions, when the transmission is cold. One poster has captured it on a video, which is in post 574. This is known problem, TSB issued but seems to not fix the issue and Toyota will either replace the solenoids and/or ultimately the whole transmission on a number of vehicles. Sometimes the issue is resolved, other times still remains and is believed to be an inherent problem of the 6 speed design. Some users have had the transmission replaced a couple times.

    The cruise control, hesitation, and what recently Joel has nicknamed the 'sawtooth' problem, is on the I4-5speed. For most folks, there was an early TSB last year, which was superceded by a recent TSB in August. For most folks, the TSBs have resolved the problem. Read earlier post for the cruise control/sawtooth symptoms.

    These symptoms/problems have been described and documented in these Edmund forums since a month after the vehicle started selling.
  • djm2djm2 Posts: 705
    Hi Mackabee:
    Kindly be advised that I have a GREAT Toyota Dealer, who gives me outstanding service every time that I present my vehicle for service,(which is every 2,500 miles.) Now having said that, there is another side to this transmission issue. When I see other people having a problem with the same vehicle, and the parent company is not taking a serious interest in their concern, and I own one of these vehicles, ---- that is VERY personal to me! It is very possible, that my driving style is masking the problem in my vehicle, since I DO NOT USE my cruise control, and I use the manual side of the transmission in city traffic. I simply do not like the cruise feature in any vehicle. I would rather make my own driving decisions.
    I have been following this issue, since I purchase my 2007 XLE Camry in January. The reason for this interest is as follows: ----1.)I want to know, for future reference, what if any solution to the problem Toyota is developing; ---- 2) At what mileage does the problem show it's ugly head; ---and ----3.) What actions are being taken by the customer base to get the problem corrected. This is called being an informed consumer.
    I have nothing personally against the Toyota Corporation. As a consumer, I purchased a "loaded" top-of-the-line Camry. I have an expectation that I purchased a "HIGH QUALITY PRODUCT" that is backed by both a warranty, and an extended 100,000 mile warranty that I purchased at the time of sale. Should something malfuction, that expectation includes a timely diagnosis of the problem and a professional repair. If Toyota cannot accomplish that task on a particular vehicle, they had no business putting that vehicle on the market, and in the process taking the money from consumers, based on Toyota's past reputation. I think the word that describes this is "ethics," (a set of moral principles or values). The customers on this board are concerned with being stuck with a vehicle that is going to have a major transmission failure after the 3 year / 36,000 mile warranty has expired, and as such, they will then be responsible for the cost of the repair. In addition, they are concerned with an "operational / safety issue" as they use this vehicle on a daily basis. As an owner of this vehicle, I have the right to exchange ideas on this subject, because I have a vested interest in this subject. I paid my admissions fee to this party in the form of the purchase price of the vehicle. If these vehicles,(that have the problem), are operating as designed, then let Toyota prove that fact to the customer! That is Toyota's obligation! If they are not operating properly, then let Toyota fix the problem of buy back the product!
    Best regards. It is always a pleasure to exchange ideas and opinions in a professional manner. (Nothing personal, just business!) ----- Dwayne :shades: :shades: ;) :)
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Or "those" videos actually.

    The first one, left on the screen, is very enlightening.

    We see the drop in engine RPM as the shift into third (presumably) occurs, pretty much SOP.

    Then with the shift into fourth(?) it is quite clear, not only via the tachometer but aurally, that the engine overspeeds briefly and then drops back into the "proper" range.

    In both videos the engine appears to be dead COLD and the RPM and speed ranges involved also makes it clear, to me anyway, that the driver was not by any means "lead-footing" (not even close IMMHO) it at the time.

    But the second video raises some serious doubts in my mind regarding its circumstantial authenticity.

    Not only is the surge in the extreme, well above 5000 RPM, but the engine drops to an idle RPM level immediately thereafter and the roadspeed begins to decline.

    It's possible the driver got off the throttle quickly upon encountering such a serious engine overspeed/flare. But that explanation doesn't seem to be cognizant with what the driver was trying to accomplish.

    Looks like, rather than an upshift flare, a quick shift to neutral to me...

    Is/was there an explanation..?
  • kiawahkiawah Posts: 3,666
    These videos were posted in the forums here I think last year, by Corton if I'm not mistaken. I don't remember his resolution off the top of my head but anyone can go back and search, I think they've either given him a new transmission, or tried that to no avail and lemon lawed him a new one.
  • Kiawah, Recently, on a trip of approx. 275 miles, the "sawtooth" downshifting/upshifting and short hold of cruise control setting happened 66 times on a trip over mostly flat interstate roads, (some low hills), with rpm varying from 3200 rpm to 4300 rpm and sometimes over 5000 rpm. This happened with cruise control set to maintain a speed of 70 mph.
  • kiawahkiawah Posts: 3,666
    Yikes, once every 4 miles (less than 4 minutes)....that would be pretty annoying.

    How'd you stand that for 4 hours?
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Absent a bit more detail 66 times in 275 miles, especially for the weak, weaker, I4, could very well be SOP.

    The problem is, would be, if the cruise control, under a constant load, dropped out of the downshift state due only to regaining the set speed, the speed again declined, downshift, etc, etc.

    In other words on a "constant" upslope, incline, the cruise control forced more than a single upshift/downshift sequence.

    The cruise control's "short hold" of a downshift state in order to regain the set speed going up an incline might very well be SOP. The speed declined initially because the CC, unlike you, could not initially "foresee" the need to add in a bit more engine torque. Now that it has "seen" the extra load level it may very well return to the initial upshifted state but now increase the throttle level just enough to sustain the set speed.

    The "sawtooth" issue arises if it yet again has to downshift to regain the set speed without any additional "upslope" engine load, loading. Obviously an increase in the upslope "rate", even a slight one, might very well result in a need to downshift yet again.

    Remember, keep in mind, that the BASE goal is to improve FE to the nth degree by keeping the transaxle in the highest possible gear ratio, thereby the lowest possible engine RPM.
  • kiawahkiawah Posts: 3,666
    The problem with the FE theory, is that in practice that's not what happened (at least in my case).

    My LE I4 - "pre-original TSB from last year", was getting about 24-25 mpg highway, and had the cruise control problem big time. After the TSB was installed, we got 29mpg on a highway trip travelling 70-75mph.

    Now I can't definitively prove that the mpg increase was due to the TSB and only the TSB. Interstate was different, gas companies were different, the vehicle had more miles on it and could have been 'broken in' more, etc.

    Net is, the car runs substantially better than it did pre-TSB. It used to act like it was just too lean, and didn't have enough power....and we are now getting better mpg than before. Whether the TSB changes mixture, or engine spark timing, or shift points, or anticipatory delays/advances, or all of the above.....I don't know and have not seen any details. The TSB fixed my problem, and I'm getting better mileage......happy! What the revised TSB did different than the original one, I don't know that either but they've obviously decided to further tweak it.

    Many who have had the TSB report resolution to their issues. Why a subset of I4 folks are still having problems, I have no idea.
  • wsest- Ah but if it were just that simple!!! You have preveiously stated on this forum that constant downshifting/increase in rpm/reaching set cc speed, and not holding that speed for more than just a few seconds before downshifting again was abnormal and possibly a faulty design since latest TSB (EG-037) did not fix. I agree, but Toyota cannot fix. The point I want to make to you, and all who read this, is that "if Toyota had made me aware of this drastic change in performance from previous Camry models (2005 and previous did not display the abhoration)", I certainly would NOT have purchased. Telling me why my car is performing in an UNSATISFACTORY way, after I purchased, is not going to console me. Thanks, anyway.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Obviously there can be, and often is, too much of a "good thing".

    Soo, the programmers overdid the FE thing initially. It happens, I KNOW.

    Operating the engine so close, TOO CLOSE, to the point of almost not having enough HP to sustain a set speed with minor load variations can be overdone. Overdone would undoubtedly result in TOO OFTEN having to downshift and regain the lost speed.

    Net result...POOR FE.

    Looks as if the TSB was really a recognition, and sunsequent correction, of a software design flaw. Glad it worked.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    I'm not here to CONSOLE, just to offer a possible, plausible, explanation.
  • user777user777 Posts: 3,341
    Kiawah and WWest, did you two read the post over in the Recent Toyota Quality Issues just a glitch? forum with the link to the HW modification to open the 2nd air intake?
    ateixeira, "Are Toyota's recent quality problems just a glitch?" #831, 19 Sep 2007 7:18 am

    and specifically:
    http://www.angelfire.com/ky3/gabby/intake_mod.htm

    That's really interesting.
    Of course, if you're lean to begin with, adding more air is gonna push you in the wrong direction. So I'm mentally conflicted on how to react to it.

    But it's an interesting post.

    Back to the Cruise, what if, Toyota applied their pre-existing cruise implementation with the new Torque Convertor, Transmission, Engine, DBW combo, but didn't really test it out. I mean, I buy the search for the FE Grail and all, but what if they just flat out goofed in the test phase and the Cruise needs to be substantially reworked to be compatible with these new elements?
  • I bought my camry 4cyl le last oct from the dealership where I worked ,I got a discount so I thought it was a good deal. I had heard about the acceleration problem but was told they were going to fix it. I brought it in after 4 days for the first tsb but then was told it had already been done at the factory so I waited for 5 months to see if another would be released during which I left from working there and had also brought it back another time to get fixed. I was told there was no fix and they did not try so I made a call to toyota and got a case manager who called them and made them try again which they did not. I filed for arbitation in may had my meeting in july and did not win mainly because they compared it to a rental car with about the same mileage that had an even worse hesitation so they ruled that mine operated as designed. So I called a lawyer who said they had to try 3 times before he would take the case. The service manager's were actually on my side because they have so many complaints that it is hurting there camry sales. Anyway I haven't gotten the latest tsb but I will soon in the meantime I 've been buying premium gas and that has helped but I know from customer complaint's that this problem is much worse in cold climates so I'm waiting for winter to hire a lawyer. toyota is rolling the dice on this one but as soon as there is an accident with injury and or death they will have a massive recall due to their poorly designed fly by wire system which by the way only takes a few accelerations to reset to whoever is driving so don't let them tell you otherwise. I would also suggest starting the arbitation process so that your complaint's will be documented when they have to make good, it was very easy and free you don't have to even go to a hearing if you don't want to. If everybody files a complaint that will get some attention that they don't really need right now with sales dropping off thru out the usa. the form is in your owner's warranty rights booklet that came with your camry, the best way is to call toyota first to request the form to mail in then they will try to get you back in to service but you really don't have to. good luck to everybody
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    You're right. I went back and read the post. My bad. :)
    Mack
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    "The customers on this board are concerned with being stuck with a vehicle that is going to have a major transmission failure after the 3 year / 36,000 mile warranty has expired, and as such, they will then be responsible for the cost of the repair. "

    Dear Dwayner,
    That is not a true statement. All Toyotas have a 5 year or 60,000 mile power train or drive train warranty. This includes your transmission, engine, and other lubricated components.

    There are no perfect cars that I know of yet. Toyota/Lexus probably come closest IMHO. Some things will break and be fixed under the warranty, some may not be fixable. That's why you have the lemon law protection available to you.
    By the way, extended warranties are not worth the paper they are printed on. They don't cover what actually breaks on the car. You are wasting your money by having the car serviced every 2500 miles. Oil changes are required every six months or 5000 miles which ever comes first. Enjoy your Camry. I've owned three in my lifetime and my next one will more than likely be another Camry. ;) I don't worry about the things I can't control.
    Mackabee
  • user777user777 Posts: 3,341
    There are no perfect cars that I know of yet. Toyota/Lexus probably come closest IMHO

    Mack, if you go back several years on the NHTSA website, you'll see problems with Toyota/Lexus DBW isn't a new thing.
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    "Wish Toyota would recall their SWISS WATCH."

    They won't issue a recall unless there have been reports of accidents or fatalities. The NTHSA is responsible for that.
    :)
    Mack
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    What's DBW? Back in 2001 when the previous gen Camry came out we had the same problem. James Healy of USA TODAY mentioned it in his review of a 2002 V6 XLE and a fix was promptly provided. Why TMMK and the Japan parent manufacturing didn't catch it this time is beyond me.
    :)
    Mack
  • chuck28chuck28 Posts: 259
    Was that in Louisiana? There was a women in these early days of the v-6 problem. Her name was Liz. She did get a new car and she said in the end it was the dealership that went to bat for her not Toyota corp.
    As this problem got more wide spead Toyota got stricter with the dealerships and didn't want to start buying back cars.
    Since that car replacement you mentioned dealers are getting trained by Toyota reps. on how to deal with the consumer complaints.
    Thats why you don't hear about any car replacements anymore.
    Thanks for trying to care.
  • One theme running through all of the input from people is that the Dealer makes the difference. I am lucky to have a dealership that is top notch - Toyota of Concord NC (about 1 mile from Lowes Motor Speedway). It is modern and efficient. The service people are pretty much the same as they have been for the 7 years I have been there. I know from friends that other Dealers in the area aren't as good. I will be going back in next week for oil/filter change, and will discuss the cruise control problem then; I will let you know what happens. Also, it will be interesting to see if the new Honda Accords have any startup problems (like the CRV did). I agree that no car is perfect under all operating conditions; I have friends with high end cars (BMW, Infinity, Lexus, Mercedes) and none are perfect. You keep your car well maintained and hope for the best. It is funny though that everyone I know that has a Subaru is very happy. Haven't figured that out yet.
  • wwest- I understand your position and view on this matter. I hope you understand my dissappointment and frustration with my $20,000 investment (2007 Camry). As an owner of 3 earlier Camrys (1992,2000,2003), I assumed that I was purchasing the 2007 Camry which would perform as well as my earlier models. I was wrong. Before purchasing the 07 Camry, I neither heard nor read any mention of the 5spd transmission annoyances. If I had been aware, I would not have purchased. Toyota certainly said, or published nothing. Thanks for listening.
  • Is the problems you are discussing related to the 2008 camry le with automatic transmision?
    We would stay away from if these problems were affecting this car.
    thanks
  • I thought it was just my Camry. I am now going to go to the dealer and see what they will do. Thank you for making this public.
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