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What are the best V8 engines ever made?

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Comments

  • captaincarlcaptaincarl Member Posts: 21
    I don't know whether to be happy or bummed about the kind of power they're getting out of the new engines. It' great because now you can get lots of horsepower in a reliable, reasonably priced, safe car. But I've always liked the old musclecars of the '60s, so it's a little depressing to see that some of the modern engines make more power than even the real bruiser big blocks of the past.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Part of the problem was that the older muscle cars were using very low gearing to take advantage of the type of power they were developing; so now, not only are some of the new cars faster off the line, they are much faster on the top end, too, due to things like variable valve timing, lighter weight cars, fuel injection, etc, that allows them a very broad torque band. Variable timing and lift is like having a torque cam and a rev cam at the same time---it's a tremendous advantage.
  • jpstaxjpstax Member Posts: 250
    I'm curious why the Chevy 409 didn't make your lists. I'm also wondering why no one else mentioned it in the 57 posts (I think I read all 57). Granted the 409 was a limited production big block, but it was the king of the drag strip until the Dodge hemis came out and started beating the beloved 409 consistently. I totally agree with you on the 327. I don't know much about the 350.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I can't speak for the others, but to me the 409 was a beast of an engine all right but not around long enough to create a legend around itself, Beach Boys notwithstanding. Perhaps its rarity, size, weight and lack of versatility never allowed it to be remembered as well as the other Chevy engines.
  • captaincarlcaptaincarl Member Posts: 21
    I think the 409 didn't make the lists because it just wasn't that great. While it was competitive with Pontiac, Ford, and Mopar engines of the time, I wouldn't call it 'king of the dragstrip'. The other manufacturers put a higher proportion of their money into racing development, and ended up with SuperStock packages that could run right with the race 409s. I think the idea of putting the combustion chamber in the block ended up being inefficient; certainly it wasn't an idea that was copied, or ever tried again. I'd call the 409 'king of the street', though, in '61 thru maybe '64 or '65.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    That is one great car song. My recollection from reading old car mags is that the 409 was strong on the strip in '61 and '62, but by '64 it was an also-ran. The hi-perf 409 was available in the '65 Chevy through January '65, I believe, but only with the single 4V, not the 2x4V. I saw a red '65 Impala 409 (not SS) with 4-speed at a recent Palo Alto Concours, and would love to have it for a daily driver. I don't think the car is worth all that much, except to someone like me who likes full-size 4-speeds, sleepers and oddball engine combinations.

    I had a 409 once...a '65 Impala wagon with 409/340 and Powerglide. About as inspiring as it sounds. Was going to combine it with a '65 SS convertible 4-speed with tired 327, but ran out of money.

    My understanding is that the "W" engine was never intended for passenger-car production--it was designed in the mid-'50s for large trucks. That would explain why they had to work so hard to get power out of it. The cams were so radical they'd wear out the valve springs.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    As an impressionable teenager, I would always look at the emblem on the front fenders when I spotted a Chevy. If it only had a "V" it was a lowly 283. Crossed Flags over the V meant it was a 327...not bad, we would wonder if it might be the 300 HP version instead of the much more common 250 horse. And...not often, but once in awhile, we would spot, above the crossed flags, the three important numbers...409!

    Now, I did grow up in a Chevy town. Fords and Mopars were for hicks. I did watch one night though a stop light race between a 409 and a 406 Ford (remember those?) Much to our surprise, the Ford won!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Back in those days, the hot cars would head to Hawthorne. Lots of stop light drags!

    LOTS of cops too!
  • carnut4carnut4 Member Posts: 574
    Isell-every time you mention something, it brings back another memory. In the very early fifties, when I was just a little kid [and already a carnut] my folks lived about 3 blocks off Hawthorne blvd. In those days, I remember lots of flathead Fords cruising around-mostly hotrods from the 30's and 40's. I used to walk down Hawthorne with my grandad, and I'd notice these hotrods bombing around, and the sound of those engines with the loud exhaust, etc. No wonder it got in my blood at such an early age!
  • moparmadmoparmad Member Posts: 197
    Sorry I have been busy lately and haven't been here in awhile.I failed to include the 409 because I have Moparitice.I live and breathe Mopars and am not up on my Ford and Chevy engines,that is the reason I was curious to hear others input into this discussion.I have just scored a pristine 440 for my 70 Cuda and have been busy with that but I would like to thank everyone who has given thier input.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Yeah,,,You wouldn't want to walk down Hawthorne Blvd. at night anymore...too bad...
  • jpstaxjpstax Member Posts: 250
    Did you know Brian, Carl, and Dennis Wilson?

    I just got back from the Volo Car Museum in Volo, IL. It's a first rate museum that was having an auction (Kruse) this weekend. Anyhow, I walked around the museum and saw my first 426 Hemi engine. Man, did it take up space in the engine compartment! The car was a brown Dodge Coronet. It was a "sleeper". If you didn't notice the HEMI badges on the front and rear panels, you could get "suckered" at a light. However, it said on the description sign on the dash that it "could rattle dishes in the house, or wake the dead". I also saw the hemi's arch-enemy across the aisle. It was a Chevelle SS, with the 454-450hp engine.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    I remember, at Baylands Raceway, a hobbyist with a gorgeous hemi Roadrunner who couldn't get his car out of the 15s. Meanwhile, my clapped-out Ram Air GTO was doing 14.9s. And according to some of the more honest roadtests I've read, that wasn't unusual. Apparently the hemi had to be set up by someone who knew what they were doing. I'm not claiming that the Pontiac was a better engine. I just wonder if you needed to be a Pro Stocker to get the most out of the hemi.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Ran into the Beach Boys a couple of times...Once at LAX, another time Dennis and Brian were at a party I was at. Nice guys. Two are dead now, hard to believe, the weren't much older than me...

    And...the 426 Hemi was no slouch! Saw a guy in a GTO one night in San Pedro try to take on a 426 Dodge at a stop light. The Dodge made the GTO look like a Cushman Scooter!
  • captaincarlcaptaincarl Member Posts: 21
    If you look at the times turned by some of those old musclecars at the pure stock drags in the last few years, you'll see that ANY car can be made to run real fast or real slow. I've known a few Hemi owners, and they say it's just a matter of having a command of basic engine tuning. Problems result when an owner either doesn't know the basics, or they mostly trailer/garage their Hemi and don't care much how it runs. With 2 carburetors, solid lifters (most Hemis, anyway), and dual point distibutors, there's a lot of room for errors. Tom Hoover, who sort of designed the engine, said he thought 2 4-barrell carbs was too complicated for the average car owner; he felt the engine would have been improved with the 6 pack setup, which proved easier to maintain.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    Didn't mean to imply that I was dissing the hemi. A great engine with more potential than any other U.S. production engine of the time that I can think of.

    Yes, most of those engines responded to basic tuning tricks. In fact, I've read that many of the "bone stock" cars tested back in the '60s were massaged by factory in-house tuners, including Pontiacs with the Royal Bobcat treatment. Supposedly Jim Wangers ordered this after an early roadtest of a base engine GTO convertible with 2-speed AT made the entire line-up seem like slugs. (I guess the bogus Car & Driver roadtest took care of that; 0-60 in 4.6 seconds!) The fact that the hemi was a little over the top gave the MoPar line-up a hardcore performance that survives to this day, a little like the Viper halo effect. Some of the other factory hi-perf packages, like the W-30, Stage 1, 428 SCJ and Ram Air GTOs, were very strong on the street, and maybe easier to live with, but they didn't have the King Kong hemi image.

    Many of the serious racers I saw at the strip were running MoPars, and not because of the image; they left me at the line and pulled away from me all the way down the strip. On the other hand, I will say that my HO and Ram Air GTOs could hold their own with a stock MoPar bigblock raced by an enthusiastic amateur (like me).
  • captaincarlcaptaincarl Member Posts: 21
    I love Goats, too, and have seen what a good running GTO can do. What GTOs have you owned? Have you read Wangers' book? It's pretty good, although I lost interest a little when he starts talking about his post-musclecar career. He tried to sell his idea of a Boss Pinto to Ford in the '70s! I'm glad they didn't buy it, what a disgraceful car that would have been. He sure knew how to market cars in the '60s, though. Sharp guy; he kind of had his hand on the pulse of American youth back then.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    Thanks for reminding me about Wangers' book, because I haven't read it and I should. I'm in sales, and he was one guy who knew marketing. When you read the history of '60s performance it's amazing how Pontiac was one of the few to consistently put together a complete package that younger buyers would buy: styling, marketing and enough engineering to keep the streetracers interested. They weren't always the fastest, either on the strip or the street, but they were fast enough, looked great and were easy to live with.

    The Roadrunner kind of knocked the GTO off its throne, at least in my area, and I think one reason was the image the hemi gave to the MoPar intermediate lineup. The other was that a 383 Roadrunner was very fast for less money than a Goat.

    I owned what was supposed to be the answer to the 'runner, a Judge. The Judge was originally developed as a budget musclecar but ended up as a more expensive GTO. But a great marketing idea, as the hundreds of fake Judges shows. Mine was a Ram Air III with "bang-shift" turbo, a very quick car that also handled surprisingly well.

    But my favorite was a '67 HO, no power options and quick-ratio manual steering. It had a few rough edges--like instant-fade brakes--but at least it made you pay attention.

    The other '67 I owned was at the opposite end of the spectrum, an automatic base engine car that was a smooth, elegant cruiser, sort of a smaller Grand Prix. It ran great at 180k unrebuilt miles, another GTO attribute: they were mechanically rugged.

    The '66 I had really didn't move me, maybe because of the 2-speed AT. Not a slug, but not as much personality either.

    Well, that was a nice stroll down memory lane.
  • moparmadmoparmad Member Posts: 197
    I think one point to make on the debate of dragstrip comparison's,is that it is hard to claim that an engine is superior or not by one example that you beat or were beaten by.Remember that even though many muscle cars ran deep 3.90's or 4.11's many other's did not.Without knowing all the particulars one could be led to believe many things.For example,a 340 Duster with 4 speed and 4.11's and no other options may very well beat a Hemi GTX with 3.23's and every option available.This doesn't mean the 340 is more powerful,or better for drag racing than the Hemi,except maybe in those two cars.
    Muscle car Reveiw just listed their choices for the top ten Quickest muscle cars in a new issue,the 427 Cobra was first,the 427 Corvette was second,and maybe a little surprising to some the 440 six barrel(only Dodges are six packs)Road runner was third.The highest Hemi on the list was a Hemicuda in fifth or sixth.Interestingly though the Hemicuda had 3.54 gears,everything above it had 4.10's or deeper.The Cuda ran a measly 13.10 in the quarter the 'Bird'ran a 12.90,pretty nasty on skinny little bias ply street tires,and that is why I can't accept the theory that we have come a long way in V8 developement,not when you compare the strides made in computers,motorcycles,and many other products in much less than thirty years.
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    There have been many "retro" tests done on these 12 and 13 second cars that have been restored and blueprinted beyond their original condition. And if they hit high 13's, low 14's it's the norm. Now factor in they got single digit fuel economy, spewed emissions and were somewhat high strung(It's been said many times the Hemi was a hard car to keep streetable compared to the wedge head versions)how any one can make that above statement is beyond me.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    Moparmad is right about gearing and weight making a big difference, although if you have deep gears you better not be running F78s. My cars had normal street gearing, in the mid-3s, and I'm sure the cars I was able to compete with had similar gearing. In fact, during a race with a '70 440-4v 'runner, we both made our 1-2 and 2-3 shifts at the same time. When he missed the 3-4 shift I thought I had missed mine--he was right next to me--and backed off momentarily. The cars that left me behind had gears, slicks and traction bars big enough to build a bridge with.

    Although I like the old musclecars better than the new performance cars, I do think we need to take road-tests with a grain of salt. The classic example is the first GTO test in Car & Driver. Even David E. admits the numbers are bogus, but it did a lot to establish the GTO's image. Let's just say that they were all very fast, and a lot of fun.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Could make a big difference. A buddy's dad had a '65 Riviera Gran Sport. 425 engine with dual 4 bbls. It was VERY fast, but became MUCH faster when a top notch tune up shop took the distributor out and tweaked it on a Sun distributor machine (remember those?) he also rejetted the carbs. Afterwards the Riv got better mileage and screamed even more than before. It took a FAST car to come close to that Riviera. It could also burn rubber from both wheels like no other.

    side note...That Sun distributor machine could deliver a shock that would damm near stop your heart if you touched the wrong area! Been there!
  • jpstaxjpstax Member Posts: 250
    I totally agree that tuning a car can make a world of difference in performance. In '66 a guy I knew with a Biscayne (427-425hp) was VERY unhappy with his et's. Someone told him about a place in Chicago that power-tuned engines. He took it there. It took 3 heavy-set guys, sitting in the trunk, to hold it down during the dyno runs. After tuning he said he chopped off 2 full seconds from his et. He was ecstatic!
  • carnut4carnut4 Member Posts: 574
    one of the most revealing comparison tests I've read was the '67 435 horse 427 Corvette versus the new [then] '97 Vette with the latest edition of the small block V8. Now that 435/427 Vette is one of the all time brutes-yet the '97 smoked it in every way-from the dragstrip, to the road race track-the '97 was faster in every way. PLUS-the '97 [and I have to say I still like the styling of the '67 over the '97, and I'd like to own a '67 Stingray-but a small-block] did it all with way fewer emissions, over twice the gas mileage, a much higher top speed, and with a smooth, quiet drivability that the 427 brute just couldn't match. So we HAVE come a ways with some of the new V8's. Only thing is, you can't do anything yourself to "supertune" the way you could the old ones.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    But the SOUND is gone! The old Corvette sounded SO much better!
  • carnut4carnut4 Member Posts: 574
    That's why I still like the '67. But I'd like to have the 365 horse 327, the "fueley" block engine I had in my '55 Chev, with that solid lifter cam and valve lash set at .030. Man did that thing sound good! Wind it up slow in first to 4 grand, and THEN mash it to the floor and cut in the rest of that big holley 4 barrel-the rush to 7000 rpm was priceless!
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    Yeah, they've changed the sound, taken off the edge, and it sounds too refined. There's nothing like a healthy V8 with turbo mufflers. Although I must say that the new Mustang Cobra that took off next to me in a hurry tonight sounded pretty hairy in an exotic sort of way--not a bad sound at all.

    Regarding dyno tuning, just installing a Mr. Gasket curve kit in the distributor could do wonders for throttle response. Limit the amount of mechanical advance, disconnect the vacuum advance and crank in as much initial advance as the engine could tolerate. Good stuff.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I agree. I have nothing but great respect for the 327. The 365 HP version was the ultimate!
  • jpstaxjpstax Member Posts: 250
    Wasn't there also a 375 HP version of the 327? I think it too was fuel injected, and was available sometime in the 60's.
  • jpstaxjpstax Member Posts: 250
    Forgot to mention in previous post new that new BMW V-8 (for M-5 and Z-8) makes about 400 ponies. Oops, forgot this topic is for classic V-8's.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    The 327/365 and 375 were the same engine with different induction systems. The 365 had a Holley R-2818-AS, and the 375 was the "fuelie". 11:1 nominal compression ratio, late Duntov cam with .485 lift, 346 duration and 214 degrees overlap. Torque was the same for both, 350 lbs.ft., but the 4v peaked at 4000 rpm, the fuelie at 4400. Produced in '64 and '65. There was a similar version in '62-3, with 340 and 360 hp, but the carbureted version had an AFB and both had the milder solid cam first used in the 270 and 283-hp 283s. Source is "Bill Carroll's Chevrolet V8 Performance Guide", 1969 edition.
  • carnut4carnut4 Member Posts: 574
    That's all the way it was. The 365 horse had the big Holley and the 375 had FI. The intake manifold and cylinder heads were also opened up a little from the 340 and 360 horse 327s. The 365 and 375s were the first to use the 2.02" intakes, etc. Great engines, all of them. And oh that sound! I'd like to own one again-but how do you deal with that 11 to 1 compression with today's gas? We talked about that in another topic, I think.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    It's like hobbling a race horse! Yeah, these engines can be "detuned" to run on today's gas, but it's not the same!

    We used to complain about paying 38.9 cents a gallon for chevron supreme. The "white pump" stuff. It was something like 104 octane!

    The hot cars loved that stuff!
  • carnut4carnut4 Member Posts: 574
    Now there's a topic that used to bring arguments I remember. I had a friend whose Dad had a Chevron station, and was all for Standard oil products. Another guy I knew believed in Richfield [Arco} gas, saying that the Arco premium was just as good as the Standard Custom Supreme. "Nah, the Richfield's just as good. Got that boron additive or whatever it was. "No, the Custom Supreme's better. 104 Octane. How come it costs 39 cents a gallon?" The Richfield was cheaper. I don't know, but I remember I'd pay a little more and buy the Custom Supreme if I felt rich, and always felt like I was giving my engine the best. One thing most of us agreed on though-we didn't like Super Shell! Wish I could buy some 100 octane around here! Heck-I'd pay 2 bucks a gallon!
  • jpstaxjpstax Member Posts: 250
    A lot of guys in the Chicagoland area bought "Sunoco 260". I don't remember what the octane rating was. The hot Chevies, Fords, and Mopars ran their best using it. It was very expensive.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    There's a note in Bill Carroll's book that the 340 and 360 engines had 11:1 CR with one head gasket per cylinder bank, but that engines came from the factory with two head gaskets. I guess part of "blue-printing" was to remove the second gasket.

    I remember reading about Sunoco 260 in the car mags of the time. I recall the octane rating being similar to the name, so it might have been 106 octane, although that could be off.

    Later cylinder head designs can handle more combustion pressure before they detonate, even with the same compression ratio. Didn't the last F-body small-blocks have 10+:1 CR? Of course, they had knock sensors and computer-controlled advance. I wonder how much of that stuff could be adapted to an older car.
  • carnut4carnut4 Member Posts: 574
    and that it was rated 108 octane. Trouble was, it wasn't available in California where I lived at the time. I think the Custom Supreme was the highest octane in the far west. But who knows? If they'd gone around and tested samples in So. Cal, for example, it might have been interesting.
  • jerry16jerry16 Member Posts: 22
    Someone had asked a while back about your dream engine, car combo....that's easy, let's keeps Chevy's LS1 V8 and just shrink thae damn car some!
  • jpstaxjpstax Member Posts: 250
    Like the Chevy II Nova that came with the 327-350 HP (L-79) engine, for instance? I knew a guy that had one (in the summer of '66). It could fly!
  • captaincarlcaptaincarl Member Posts: 21
    Car and Driver's Patrick Bedard had an interesting story about the '66 Chevy II with the L-79. He worked as a test driver for Chrysler at the time, and they were working on what would become 340 A-body package (I don't know what displacement it was then, probably a warmed over 318). The Chrysler engineers sent their prototype to the test track to compare it with the Chevy II. Bedard and the other test drivers were more impressed with the Chevy, and sent the Mopar back to the lab for more horsepower development!

    Re: the BMW M5, yeah that's one sweet car. Low 13's in a roomy 4 door, with nice handling too. Wish I had 80 thousand bucks to throw around.
  • captaincarlcaptaincarl Member Posts: 21
    All very nice engines. I can't say I completely agree with your dislike of Ford FE engines, though. I think the 428CJ was a lot like the Mopar 440--no exotic high-rpm parts, just a lot of parts that matched well, making for simple, reliable horsepower.

    I'm not that crazy about the Chevy 302 either. It made a lot of hp at the high end, but 99% of driving is done with low end torque. I had an interesting race with one once. I was in my 5 liter mustang and came alongside a beautiful '69 Z-28 at a light. It was out in the middle of nowhere, with 3 lanes to ourselves. We both revved up, and at the green, took off. Having the torque-ier motor, I pulled at least 2 car lengths on him by the middle of 2nd gear. Then I noticed he wasn't falling back anymore. Knowing the high rpm capabilities of his 302, I knew what would happen, and there was nothing I could do about it--he blew by me. I never had so much fun losing a race as I did that one.
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    While I'm too chicken to post my own list I'm sure brave enough to comment on others!!
    1. Semi agree, from what I've read it was tempermental on the street and the wedges of the same size some times were faster. Also like the SOHC Ford Hemi and Boss 429 Hemi in this class of motor.

    2) No way! Good fun motor but with the different crank sizes no 4 bolt main availability and rarity of a steel crank I'd put the 350 based motors way ahead of their smaller relatives because of the stronger blocks bigger con rod bolts and waaaaay more availability of factory hi-perf parts, mostly cranks and rods. (BTW I'm not a Chevy man but the 350 has stood the test of time and proven itself.)

    I've fought for the FE before and while I think it an old design that was pretty stout with its deep skirt block (Which Ford and Chevy have re-incorporated into their latest motors!!!) it had its ups and downs. Just remember what American motor won the 24 hours of Le Mans for the first time. Yes there were dog meat FE's but there were also 145 horsepower 350 chevys!!!!

    I've got way more opinions on your list but I'll stop hogging and let others comment.

    Thanks for rekindling the topic!
  • captaincarlcaptaincarl Member Posts: 21
    Looking at the history of FE engines, sometimes I think the engine was plagued by poor marketing decisions rather than poor engineering. The typical musclecar buyer of the '60s wanted lots of power, but not if that meant a difficult engine to maintain. The 425hp 427 was nearly a race engine, and it didn't seem to take to its 390hp detuning very well. The 390 had potential, but Ford didn't market a higher hp version to compete with the 350-375hp engine options offered elsewhere. Musclecar sales and reputations were based in this hp area, and Ford didn't have an engine for that niche until '68 1/2 (maybe I should say '69. Could you get a 428CJ in an intermediate in '68 1/2?).
  • nrd525nrd525 Member Posts: 109
    Yep,a 302 Chevy will do some running,especially in a small/light car.It's lack of torque can be a help though on street tires,it will hook up better than say,my old 79 T/A with a hopped up 403 olds.That car could ruin tires at will,after I did heads,cam,intake,carb,headers,etc,it ran really well,but forget hooking up with those 70 series radials!I raced a friend at the track once in it.The other car was a 302 powered Nova.I don't know where he got the motor from,but it was a factory 302,out of a wrecked Camaro.If I punched it at the green,I would either smoke the hell out of the tires,or the rear would jump up and down,so I had to drive it PERFECTLY or I was dead meat.
    If I got of ok,AND if the trans shifted at the right RPM(about 50% of the time),it was almost a toss up,I was better at cutting lights,but I had to drive it so carefully,he usually beat me by two car lengths pulling away if I messed up the launch.I put some big tires on it once,and it did hook up and run 14.30's,not bad for a 2.41 rear end(posi yet!)
  • nrd525nrd525 Member Posts: 109
    The Hemis were kind of a pain on the street,they had to be geared right,a 3.20 or 3.55 meant you would get beat by a lot of what were really slower cars.But if the car had 3.9 or 4.10's,and the carbs were set up right,watch out!
    That Belvedere had a Posi Dana 60 with 4.10's,and some pretty big tires for the time period.It was a soso launcher when he bought it,but it always flew at the top end.After he got the better springs and pinion snubber,it hooked pretty decent on the street tires,and would pull the front end with slicks.It ran mid to low 11's at Milan Dragway.It was pretty mild,cam wise.
    The mighty hemi died one night,he was street racing a guy in a Chevelle,don't know what size engine.The 'Dere was killing him,and then one of the less than two week old intake valves broke off,due to a factory flaw,and dropped into the cylinder.The head was trashed,but the main damage was it somehow broke the rod off at the pin,and seized up the engine.BTW,it had a 4 speed at this time,and when the engine siezed up,the front u joint broke,and the car pole vaulted on the shaft.There was a huge hole in the floor.Other than being scared my friend only had a bruise on his back from something hitting him,but we never figured out what the hell it was!
    About a year later,it was back looking new,with a rebuilt motor,and 727 trans,with the pushbuttons.I wanted to buy that car so bad,my dad said I was "nuts".
    As far as the 350's go,that line was supposed to read 327/350,but I missed it.
    The Fe powered cars ran ok,but just not as good as the GM/Chrysler cars for the most part.A friend had several of them spin bearings due to assembly defects(Ford admitted it!).One lasted a whole week,the replacement for one that lasted only about four months!The FOURTH engine lasted almost 200K though.But the dealer checked it really carefully,and fixed some problem with the oil system that would have killed that one too.Something about an oil passage being open that shoud be partially plugged?
    I knew a clown in High School,Joe,he was a real doofus,and someone sold him a 428 CJ Mustang that,well,it just didn't run right,it shook.It was a real CJ,it was a real 428,it was messed up.He spent a bunch of money on it,did a total tune up,but never a compression check.Fianlly,a friend of his did one,and one cylinder had NO compression,nothing.Hey Joe,was the spark plug on that cylinder really,really clean?Uhhh,yeah.Uh oh!
    He pulls the valve cover off,and there are no rockers on that hole!!They ended up pulling the heads,and there was a wooden plug in the hole!the crank was messed up too.The bad cylinder was scored up pretty bad too.
    Joe sold the car to some guy who was really hot for it,and actually got more than he paid for it!A few weeks later,it was back on the street,running great.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    Just want to repeat what I've said before, that the 390 could turn on with the right equipment: small Holley, Edelbrock Performer and Comp Cams 270 hydraulic. Never raced it, and I can't say it was a world-beater, but it was very strong right up to its 3500 rpm redline. :)
  • captaincarlcaptaincarl Member Posts: 21
    Hemi history: comparing a hemi car tested this year with a 440 car tested 30 years ago gets us nowhere, especially when done by a magazine not known for rigorous & exacting test standards. While the Hemi's reputation may get overblown sometimes, it definitely ran in the front of the pack, as can be seen at the Pure Stock drags every year.

    I might leave the mopar 340 off a best of list, too, for the same reasons you mention. It just didn't get marketed by Chrysler the way the Hemi and 440 did. It was certainly a good performer, though, and made a mark in racing when Chrysler wanted it to. It was a winner in Prostock in the late '70s. And in Stock class racing, a 340 Dart raced in E or F/stock, just one class slower than the 428CJ Mustangs in D or E/stock.
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    The mag I quoted actually was talking about two separate tests; 426 vs 440 30 years ago And a current Hemi test done for the Feb. issue.

    Are we talking the same prostock? Glidden pretty much owned that with Fords during the 70's and some of the 80's and I don't believe there were any Chrysler small blocks in pro stock. Glidden ran Chrysler one year. don't remember how he did though.

    Back to NRD's list. Pontiac and Buick 455's. Nah!!!!! No history. I would agree with some of the Buick turbo V6's in the 80's though.
  • captaincarlcaptaincarl Member Posts: 21
    Glidden drove a small block Plymouth Arrow during his one year with Mopar.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    The long-stroke 455 wasn't Pontiac's best engine, although the Super Duty was a strong engine. The 400 has plenty of history, at least on the street, and the 421 SD also won a few races at the track.
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