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Toyota Land Cruiser

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Comments

  • dianne4toyotadianne4toyota Member Posts: 343
    I was shocked to read the trouble you'd had! Please keep me posted on this situation. Mechanically, it's hard to discern right now why the rig "broke" but I sure would like to hear the resolution to this.

    -Dianne
  • c_williamsc_williams Member Posts: 28
    You'll have to excuse the bad spelling in my post. Edmunds spellchecker got a hold of a few key words and really messed it up. AC = LC, miff = diff. You get the idea!
  • hicairahicaira Member Posts: 276
    The activetrac replaced the locking rear diff that was on the '98 and '99 100 series. It seems that while it offers advantages over the locking rear diff when on ice or plowed roads, in the thicker stuff, it may be a hinderance.

    Busted front diff (or miff :)) not a good sign. I have a theory though: When the wheel starts to spin, the traction control wants to brake that wheel. Your foot is still on the gas. Torque still going to the front diff (since its locked, 1/2 the torque), but TC suddenly refuses to accept torque. The momentum of a spinning wheel suddenly stopping in this situation may be enough to break a CV shaft or diff, but more than likely, the duration of the activity, and heat build up, added to it.

    A couple of rules in off-roading:

    1. As soon as you are stuck, stop spinning the wheels. You will only get more stuck.

    2. Appreciate the fact that your 4WD (or AWD) allowed you to get stuck much further from a decent road than a 2wd would have.

    I'm curious to hear what the service dept says too. Please let us know.

    HiC
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    Locking the center differential will turn off the A-Trac in high or low gear range. I'll be curious to hear what happened to the front diff. I agree that it sounds like something was amiss before you got stuck.
  • ptownptown Member Posts: 9
    After doing some research I've determined that while I would love a new LC, a 97 actually fits my budget. Any known problems with the 97? Is the inline 6 enough power? Majority of miles will be spent on highway and around town, with regular trips to Tahoe and remote Colorado ranch with family and dogs. Any words of wisdom out there as I go looking for my 97 TLC?

    Thanks
  • c_williamsc_williams Member Posts: 28
    Cliffy - I was looking for your post on how the drive system works on the LC, but couldn't find it. Can you post a link?

    For my 2000 LC, ActiveTrac was NOT disabled when in 4L and/or when the center differential was locked. VSC was disabled. I thought those were two different systems.

    When I got stuck (hicaira, my rear tires were less than two feet from the safety of the plowed road. I really didn't get very far :( ) When I left the road, I was in 4H. When I stopped moving, I immediately switch to 4L and locked the center differential. I did not help - I made no additional progress. In fact, I hadn't even had a chance to really spin before I moved to 4L.

    The ActiveTrac light kept coming on and I could see the wheels starting and stopping. I was convinced this was causing the problem so I actually pulled the fuse for the ABS. This stopped the ActiveTrac, but I think it was too little too late. My old Ford Bronco used to grind right out of a situation like this when I engaged 4L - just like a four wheel drive tractor. Maybe ActiveTrac is a bad thing?
  • joeeblow1joeeblow1 Member Posts: 238
    #352: Isn't that a re-post from months back? Broken front diff with a locked center diff may stop movement. Best thing to do in that case is to lock the center diff and remove the front driveshaft. Even with d-shaft removed you may have some trouble given that the TLC has no free wheeling manual hubs. The wheels will still drive the front diff. Best scenario would be manual hubs and no front driveshaft, but you're unlikely to carry spare hubs around on a new rig :).

    The IFS diff is very weak, especially with a high torque V8 behind it. One of the lovely things that comes with independent front suspension.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    I've saved my A-Trac explanation. Send me an e-mail at sclifford@kjtoyota.com and I'll send it to you. I do have a couple of questions about your situation. Were you in neutral when you shifted into 4 low and locked the center? If not, that explains the problem and may have led to the damage to the differential. If you were, there was some malfunction with the system. With the center locked, the TRACS and VSC should be off.
  • c_williamsc_williams Member Posts: 28
    Cliffy - As soon as I got stuck I shifted the drive selector to neutral and switched to 4L. I don't think you can do it any other way. If you tried, I'm sure it'd grind.

    As far as the center differential? I can't remember if I pushed the button while it was in netural or not. That's a delayed mechanism anyway so I can't imagine that would be a problem.

    I'm going to call the service rep on Monday and ask him about the TRACS system. According to Hicaira, it has to be enabled because the rear and front diffs don't lock. So, how could the system work with TRACS disabled? You would only have one front and one rear tire spinning. Right?

    joeeblow1 - there was a post a while back where some guy got his LC stuck because something was wrong with the 4x4 system. I couldn't find the post number now that Edmunds has disabled viewing a complete message board (it takes forever to page through 30 pages and text search).
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    Yes, with the center locked, the TRACS is off and you are in the same mode as every Toyota 4x4 pickup has ever been. If one side of the vehicle is slipping, power would be directed to those two wheels.
  • c_williamsc_williams Member Posts: 28
    Cliffy, if this is the case, I don't see an advantage to 4L? Since the front and rear diffs don't lock, then you've essentially compromised your abiltity to get unstuck. Going from 4H + ActiveTrac to 4L means you go from essentially four wheels to two.

    Does anyone else with a 2000 LC have any experience getting stuck and using 4L, the center diff, and/or 4H? Surely someone must have taken their 50K 2000+ LC offroad by now :)
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    If it were mine, I wouldn't ever lock the center differential. I would let the A-Trac system work in either 4 high or low but I agree that there is very little use for locking the center as long as the A-Trac system is functional (which it sounds like yours wasn't).
  • c_williamsc_williams Member Posts: 28
    After doing a bunch of research this afternoon, I think I've figured out how the LC's 4x4 system works.

    I found this excellent article that describes the history of 4x4s and all the technology in use. It's a great read:

    http://www.eskimo.com/~eliot/awd.html

    Now for my explanation:

    The 2000 LC has all time four wheel drive with open differentials in the front, the rear, and the center. If there were no traction control, this would actually be a pretty poor system. If you jacked up a single tire, 100% of the torque would be transfered to the spinning tire. The vehicle would go nowhere.

    The locking center differential (which works in both 4H and 4L) effectively forces a split of the torque to the front and rear. But again, if one front and one rear tire were spinning they would absorb 100% of the torque and the vehicle would be stuck.

    Add the ActiveTrac traction control system and you have a very effective 4 wheel drive. The computer uses the ABS system (which senses wheel velocity) to add resistance to spinning wheel(s). This effectively returns torque back to the wheels that have traction. ActiveTrac is enabled in both 4H and 4L (I've observed this and it doesn't make sense that it would be disabled in 4L).

    The LC also has 4H and 4L. 4L essentially gives you a better gear ratio for heavy duty climbing, etc.

    The LC has a VSC system which is essentially and anti-skid mechanism that uses both engine throttle control and the ABS system. If a skid is detected, the engine throttle is manipulated and the ABS is applied appropriately to defeat the skid and return control to the driver.

    VSC is disabled when the center differential is locked and/or when the driver shifts into 4L. Why? The throttle control mechanims would be self-defeating when the LC is stuck and you are trying to provide lots of power to the wheels to either rock the vehicle or grind out of the mud.

    I'm guessing that in most situations 4H, ActiveTrac, plus a locked center diff would be more than adequate. 4L would only be required when you're stuck and climbing steep grades.

    Does anyone know what the torque split is when the center differential is locked? I'd assume 50/50, but that's not always the case.

    Hicaira, it seems to me that the ActiveTrac system is actually better than locking front and rear diffs. Why? Because a locked front/rear diff will split torque 50/50. That means a spinning tire still robs the other tire of torque. With ActiveTrac, close to 100% of the torque can go to the tire that has traction. What do you think?
  • joeeblow1joeeblow1 Member Posts: 238
    Locking the center diff simply locks the front and rear driveshafts together. This means a 50/50 torque split.
  • tjg1tjg1 Member Posts: 2
    I am considering the purchase of a 93 tlc with 220,000 miles an asking price of around $10,000. Does anyone have any recommendations regarding a vehicle of this age and high mileage, and is there anything in particular to look for when evaluating this vehicle. I have never owned a TLC before,but here they are safe and reliable, I just don't know if this mileage is way too high. I plan to keep the TLC for a few years and my wife will be driving it for a few years with 2 small children. Thanks for any input.
    tjg1
  • ptownptown Member Posts: 9
    I posted this a few weeks ago with no luck, so I'll try again to solicit some feedback.

    After doing some research I've determined that while I would love a new LC, a 97 actually fits my budget. Any known problems with the 97? Is the inline 6 enough power? Majority of miles will be spent on highway and around town, with regular trips to Tahoe and remote Colorado ranch with family and dogs. Any words of wisdom out there as I go looking for my 97 TLC?

    Thanks in advance for the help!
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    The I6 isn't a ball of fire. Many people think it is fine and before the V8 came long, I agreed. The '97s were great vehciles. About the only thing you need to keep an eye on is the brakes. It eats them for breakfast. Invest in a box of brake pads and be ready to replace them every 5 to 15K miles depending on how you drive.

    The other thing to look at is the rear main seal. They typically will seep a bit. Just make sure it doesn't progress into leaking.
  • tjg1tjg1 Member Posts: 2
    I am considering the purchase of a 93 tlc with 220,000 miles an asking price of around $10,000. Does anyone have any recommendations regarding a vehicle of this age and high mileage, and is there anything in particular to look for when evaluating this vehicle. I have never owned a TLC before,but here they are safe and reliable, I just don't know if this mileage is way too high. I plan to keep the TLC for a few years and my wife will be driving it for a few years with 2 small children. Thanks for any input.
    tjg1
  • joeeblow1joeeblow1 Member Posts: 238
    220K miles is a lot even for a TLC. If $10K is all you can afford on a TLC, consider getting a fj60, since you would then have $3K or $4K to fix any problems. Otherwise, plan on spending $1k to $2k to replace some worn out parts. More than likely it will be running just fine, but give it a thorough inspection to see what you will need to deal with, if anything. check the valve clearances, too.

    A '97 fzj80 is the last of the 80 series to be imported to the US. Towing in the mountains will be a slow process unless you opt for the Safari or TRD supercharger. Normal trips and offroading will be great. Axle seals and brake pads are maintenance items on all 80's.
  • lauras2lauras2 Member Posts: 3
    We test drove a 2001 TLC and loved it! except for the bad bass stereo problem. We thought it might be a stereo problem with the LC we drove until we read the posting in this town hall discussion (very appreciated).

    We have spoken with several dealerships. Only one acknowledged that they had heard complaints. Their GM had a 01 TLC with the bad stereo, but said NOT ALL of the 2001 TLC's have this bad stereo.

    We love the 2001 we test drove and the price sounds good. The dealership says they will replace the entire stereo system for us.

    Our questions are:

    1) Do ALL the 2001 TLC's have this defective stereo system?

    2) Will an exchange of the entire stereo system fix the problem?

    Any information is greatly appreciated!
  • c_williamsc_williams Member Posts: 28
    I went over to pick it up today. Good as new. Cost to me was zero. Toyota picked up the cost of a rental car for the week and all the work was under warranty. I was very pleased with all of Toyota's service - roadside assistance, customer service, and dealer service.

    They replaced the front differential. My receipt says "found the front diff. exploded"! The service manager said he'd never seen anything like it. When they opened it up, metal shavings poured out with the fluid. He isn't sure what caused it, though he did say that in 4L, with the front wheels turned, there would be a lot of stress on the front differential. It shouldn't be enough to destroy it, but maybe it had an existing fault.

    Anyway, I'm happy to have my LC back. Nothing makes you appreciate it more than driving a crappy Chevy Blazer for a week.
  • c_williamsc_williams Member Posts: 28
    I was under the impression that all the 2001s suffered from the booming bass. I've only heard one person with a 2001 say they didn't have the problem - and that was questionable.

    I am a little suspicious that they are willing to replace the entire audio system. IMO, the deal must be pretty rich to offer something like that.
  • c_williamsc_williams Member Posts: 28
    I finally got to try the Vehicle Skid Control out in the 2000 LC. I was driving like a maniac on compact snow and ice. On two occasions the VSC activated. I heard the throttle drop, and the ABS activate in what sounded like a single location. Control was immediately restored. It was so cool, I tried it again with the same results.

    There is no way I could react as fast or as precisely as the VCS system. Way to go Toyota.
  • zuma13zuma13 Member Posts: 35
    The question was posed whether ALL 2001 TLC's have the bad bass stereo problem. The answer is an emphatic YES. It is an inherent problem with this model. I own a 2001 with navigation and am waiting for the FIX from Toyota which has been promised.
  • bloodybeefbloodybeef Member Posts: 18
    Lauras2 - if they are willing to replace the whole stereo, let them do it, just make sure they know that if replacing the whole thing doesn't fix it, you will not buy it. If the exchange the stereo system with something that is a different brand... it might work but if it's the same one, just in new plastic wraps, it probably will not work. Zuma13 and myself have brought our MCs to other stereo shops and they can't seem to fix ours... but I think we both have the Nav system which might make things a bit trickier. So, I don't know about you but I've always loved the LC and wouldn't have bought anything else... even if the thing has a crappy stereo... so if they would fix the stereo, life would be that much happier. One thing to check for before you buy it, if and when they do fix the stereo, is whether the bass level stays the same before and after you start the engine.
  • lauras2lauras2 Member Posts: 3
    Thanks for the input on the stereo problems on the 01 LC. We continue to be amazed that most dealerships are not acknowledging this problem that seems to be so obvious. Our dealership is giving us $8,000 off sticker and were offering to replace the stereo system to see if that helped. We LOVE the truck, but are still concerned. Will a switch with another JBL system (not a 01 LC) fix it? Zuma13 mentioned a fix that has been promised. Do you have any idea what the fix might be? Bloodybeef, Zuma13 what did the stereo shops try that didn't' work on your systems?

    Thanks in advance for your help!
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    Good post on the VSC system. I've played with this a fair amount and am stunned by how well it works. I only hope we will have this on the Tundra by the time my lease come up.

    I'm also glad the problem was tracked down and handled to your satisfaction. Its unfortunate that this happened in the first place but at least all should be well now. I too have never heard of a front (or rear) differential exploding. At least not an open one like on the LC.
  • lawhamptonslawhamptons Member Posts: 3
    Hark, all of you new Landcruiser owners. After many e-mails to JBL and Harmon-Kardon, the mfgs. of the pig stereo, and their refusing to comment telling me to go back to Toyota, and a long letter to Toyota in Ca., my service manager did some research. He told me that Toyota now recognizes that there is a design fault in the amplifier section of the system. He says that they said (get it) that Toyota will begin shipping new units in February to dealers who request them. Because I am such a believer of what auto dealers represent, I am changing the whole damn system. If we can afford %55,000 and our music is important to us, then I suppose we can go for another $2,000 and get a good system, with a separate amp, subwoofer, and real speakers. In any event, the vehicle is great, and I just bought a Mobil-Exxon station in my neighborhood so that I could afford the gas bills.

    lawhamptons@aol.com
  • lawhamptonslawhamptons Member Posts: 3
    Lauras: if you really want to go for it, the Lexus truck offers a Marc Levinson system for mucho buckos more. I have not seen any reports on it; you cannot buy it from a dealer because it is only being made available to Lexus. But Marc Levinson is an ultra high end home audiophile mfg.
    As I said before, if we can afford over 50grand and want great music, then we should spend for an aftermarket system. The money you save by buying a Landcruiser could be spent on a great audio system in the car and a NAV system if you need it.
  • lcboundlcbound Member Posts: 15
    Lawhamptons, that's great news about the replacement stereo! We've had our 2001 LC for 1 month, and love the ride and hate the stereo.

    I can't believe that Toyota would not offer this as a warranty replacement. I haven't talked to my Service Dept. yet, but will now with your news.

    Dianne, Cliffy, your thoughts on our chances on getting the stereo replaced under warranty.

    Thanks.
  • lauras2lauras2 Member Posts: 3
    Lawhamptons, thanks for the info on the stereo. I made the deal on our LC contingent upon fixing the stereo problem. They are going to switch my unit out with a 2000 LC stereo. Hearing your news, I may wait on the replacement in Feb. We were skeptical about the 2000 switch as it is.

    They assured me that any stereo problems would be covered under warranty regardless.

    I am really excited about driving the car! Thanks for the help.

    Laura
  • islander3islander3 Member Posts: 6
    I just took delivery of my 2001 and notice that when the rear license plate is installed it bears directly (or at least rubs occasionally) on the rear door paint. Any suggestions or aftermarket solutions? I'm not looking to dress the thing up - just protect the paint.

    Thanks
  • zaksizaksi Member Posts: 3
    islander3,
    Let me tell you what I did when I installed my plates on my 2000 THC last year;
    I took a piece of inner-tube, placed the plate on top, and with a pen traced the shape of the plate and the circles for the screw holes.
    Than I cut the shape slightly smaller than the marks so I would not be able to see the black rubber, and placed it under the plate, forcing the screws through the holes.
    It protects my paint and also gives me better sound proofing from rattle noise of metal to metal.

    Good luck.
    Zaksi
  • zaksizaksi Member Posts: 3
    Hi guys,
    Does anybody know a good fit for the original Toyota roof rack on the 2000 TLC. I am looking for the simple ski rack, the one that is two units, open like a clamp on a hinge. it is attached to the two support rods.
    I went to Auto accessories stores here in NJ but they told me that they don't have a model that fits the 1998-2001 TLC.

    Any help with phone numbers, prices and company names would be appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Zaksi
  • jawandajawanda Member Posts: 30
    For my 2000 LC, I got the Yakima double cross. These clamp on to the factory rack really nicely, and they were easy to get on. I got these a year ago, and at the time Thule didn't make a clamp that fit the LC rack, I don't know if they've added one or not.
    Yakima makes assorted attachments, for skis they have the powderhound and big powderhound. I had the good fortune to inherit a rocketbox, which swallows a lot of gear! They have a decent website, which should have prices and such:
    www.yakima.com

    BTW, yakima isn't cheap, comparable to Thule, and they're both very good, the mechanisms don't seize and stick like some cheaper brands.
  • rbdejrbdej Member Posts: 2
    does it work in reducing wind noise? is it easy to install?
    Thanks to zaksi for the license plate installation tip.
  • freebird3freebird3 Member Posts: 12
    I have been reading alot about the radio problems in the 2001 TLC. Did the radio in the 2000 TLC suffer from these same problems. I am considering a 2000 TLC and did not notice any BOOMING BASS during my test drive. Should I still be concerned. I would appreciate any prompt response as I can find no other potential fault with this purchase. (If anyone out there has concerns other than stereo would love to hear those as well.) Thanks in advance.
  • freebird3freebird3 Member Posts: 12
    Does anyone know how many LCs Toyota produced for sale in the US in 2000? What about 2001? Perhaps Dianne or Steve (Cliffy) could enlighten me. I agree that LC is here to stay but wonder what, if any, change occured with the introduction of the Sequoia in 2000. I have asked at numerous dealers but keep getting different responses. (This is not a real suprise as one guy told me Toyota was only producing 6,000 Sequoias despite numerous articles revealing that they will manufacture 60,000 this year.) Thanks.
  • carsavvycarsavvy Member Posts: 4
    Does anybody know what the warning buzzer means, I have a 2000 LC and the buzzer goes on when the handbrake is up and quits when the handbrake is released. The warning lights are all operating normally and go off as soon as the car is started. I'll be going to the dealer to get the buzzer checked out but would like to know how serious this problem might be if I continue to drive around for another day or two.
  • sabertouchsabertouch Member Posts: 3
    I put down a refundable deposit on a LC 2 weeks ago but requested a refund after studying the bass problem for a few days. I am suspicious of Toyota's motives in not admiting to an obvious defect and their sincerity in a timely and no cost fix. This problem was reported many months ago to them and they and their dealers have and continue to be in denial mode. This should be an easy fix for them with their engineering talent, but only on LC's mfg. after the correction is made.

    My long time experience with car mfgs and factory defects is don't count on or believe anything that they infer unless Toyota [not just the dealer] puts it in writing.
    You will most likely get burned on this one. The handwriting is all over the wall. The deep discounts will be there after they fix the problem. I went to a good auto stereo shop to discuss, and they said they would have to change everything to fix this problem. This would cost thousands of $.
    This is a great car but let them fix it before buying it. If its not a safety issue, they are not legally responsible to make a no cost fix to existing LC's.
  • stevenginastevengina Member Posts: 15
    Hi everyone, Just read Sabertouch post. On your last statement. Under California lemon law I have filed a lawsuit with Toyota. My attorney has assured me that one of the laws is if the vehicle has a substantial decrease in value because of a problem that Toyota will not fix, then they are ABSOLUTELY legaly responsible! And being that I have several Emails and Edmunds post of customers NOT purchasing this vehicle because of the problem, this issue will be easy to prove. Just try re selling this TLC. If you were to disclose the problem---Good luck. So I do have a long wait till the lawsuit settles, but my attorney is so confident that he took it on contingency and said that I will drive this vehicle for free for the next year or two. Toyota will be responsible to refund me for the full price when the suit does settle. If any one will like to join my suit, please email me at Steven_schreiber@genevaco.com
    And for all you TLC lovers. I have given every opportunity for Toyota to fix this problem to no prevail. I have even been treated very rudely by just about everyone in the Toyota organization.
  • rruck1rruck1 Member Posts: 91
    I don't doubt that Toyota would deny this problem. It is going to be VERY expensive to fix since it is also a problem with the new 2001 Sequoia. This has been such a common complaint in the Land Cruiser and Sequoia threads that it seems to me like it would be a good idea to create a separate thread for this where owners could unite to relate their experiences.
    I believe there was a thread on another site where an owner was looking for others to join him in a class action suit.
  • petercrasepetercrase Member Posts: 19
    rbdej, The sunroof wind deflector is easy to install on the 2000 LC. I'm on my third one! The dealer has installed all three of them under warranty. The first one had a tear in the rubber molding, the second one developed a stress fracture running out from the bolt hole. The assistant service manager told me this is a common problem due to the wide span between the two mounting bolts. When the unit is mounted a little to tight, the stress fracture develops within a short time (weeks). Regarding wind noise with and without the deflector, I can tell you it's still very noisy with the deflector in place. Anything over say 40mph, there is to much wind noise for me.
  • petercrasepetercrase Member Posts: 19
    I'm thinking of purchasing an FJ60 (? model year range) for my son to use to go to school, work, to see his girl friend and possible trips up to the Sierras etc. He thinks this is a cool car and we have test driven one beater. This will be his first car and he will be helping with the expense. I want this to be a good experience for him so I'm looking for a stock, clean, original condition unit with average to less than average mileage that has been well maintained. My wife and I have a 2000 LC and a 1990 Camry that are well taken care of. I've checked autotrader.com and the classified ads in Stockton and SF and not found anything in California that looks good yet. Any suggestions/advice/leads would be appreciated. My email is petercrase@aol.com.
  • hicairahicaira Member Posts: 276
    Go to


    http://www.tlca.org/


    They have a local chapter in the Bay Area and usually know what is in the market.


    Join, if you are not a member. Get a monthly newsletter that has a section for used 'cruisers for sale.


    HiC

  • lc2000lc2000 Member Posts: 33
    Sunroof wind deflector. Yes, it is easy to install. Just follow the instructions. Polish the roof area first, center the deflector, and hand tighten each side with the hardware provided. Once you are sure that you have it exactly where you want it, hold the bolt with your finger tips and use a Phillips screw driver to finish tightening. DON'T OVER TIGHTEN. After a week or so, check to see that bolts are still tight. You may have to give them another turn or two. I have had mine on for a year and have not experienced any problem.

    2000 Stereo: Good, not great stereo. And no, it does not boom.
  • drumbolddrumbold Member Posts: 22
    A local Toyota dealer has a 2000 and a 2001 Land Cruiser side by side on his lot. The 2000 is clearly 1.5 to 2 inches taller than the 2001. Does anyone know if Toyota has lowered the 2001 Land Cruisers?
  • scifiscifi Member Posts: 54
    Edmunds has the height for both the 2000 LC and 2001 LC listed at 73.2 in. In fact, all of the specifications listed are identical between the two model years. Toyota has the same specs. listed on their website.

    Perhaps the tires were different or not totally inflated on the 2000 LC. A tire will lose 1 pound of air pressure for every 5°C temperature drop.
    Tires breathe, releasing about 1 pound of pressure per month.
  • staceybstaceyb Member Posts: 5
    I'm a longtime Volvo driver trying to decide on a new SUV or Minivan to tote my kids and pals (Soccer Mom) I have looked at Landcruiser which I like, but have reservations about price and stero problem I keep reading about. In addition, I hear rumors that Landcruiser will be discontinued in favor of Lexus - better service for pricier vehicle, etc. I also like the Lincoln Navigator- mostly the 300 HP and bells and whistles at a lower price. Cons for the Lincoln Nav are size and steering column gear shift as well as brake pedal placement.
    I haven't driven a minivan yet, but like the third seat availability better - just don't like V6 as much as V8 and safety records on some are not impressive.
    Does anyone have any wisdom to share before I take the plunge?
  • scifiscifi Member Posts: 54
    dianne, who works for Toyota, posted #346 stating the Land cruiser is not going anywhere.

    Some of the mini vans have very impressive safety records, perhaps even more so than some SUV's. Hopefully someone can add to this.

    I know my wife will not drive a mini van - refuses to succumb to the "soccer mom" image (HA!)

    Dianne also mentioned in a post that she heard Toyota is coming out with a new line of engines where Toyota will undoubtedly close, if not surpass, the horsepower gap with their V-8s.

    lauras2 in post #382 came up with a brilliant idea. Have them change the stereo with the 2000 model, which many posts say isn't defective. This also gives you a bargaining chip during negotiations!

    Hope this helps!
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