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Comments
-Dianne
Busted front diff (or miff ) not a good sign. I have a theory though: When the wheel starts to spin, the traction control wants to brake that wheel. Your foot is still on the gas. Torque still going to the front diff (since its locked, 1/2 the torque), but TC suddenly refuses to accept torque. The momentum of a spinning wheel suddenly stopping in this situation may be enough to break a CV shaft or diff, but more than likely, the duration of the activity, and heat build up, added to it.
A couple of rules in off-roading:
1. As soon as you are stuck, stop spinning the wheels. You will only get more stuck.
2. Appreciate the fact that your 4WD (or AWD) allowed you to get stuck much further from a decent road than a 2wd would have.
I'm curious to hear what the service dept says too. Please let us know.
HiC
Thanks
For my 2000 LC, ActiveTrac was NOT disabled when in 4L and/or when the center differential was locked. VSC was disabled. I thought those were two different systems.
When I got stuck (hicaira, my rear tires were less than two feet from the safety of the plowed road. I really didn't get very far ) When I left the road, I was in 4H. When I stopped moving, I immediately switch to 4L and locked the center differential. I did not help - I made no additional progress. In fact, I hadn't even had a chance to really spin before I moved to 4L.
The ActiveTrac light kept coming on and I could see the wheels starting and stopping. I was convinced this was causing the problem so I actually pulled the fuse for the ABS. This stopped the ActiveTrac, but I think it was too little too late. My old Ford Bronco used to grind right out of a situation like this when I engaged 4L - just like a four wheel drive tractor. Maybe ActiveTrac is a bad thing?
The IFS diff is very weak, especially with a high torque V8 behind it. One of the lovely things that comes with independent front suspension.
As far as the center differential? I can't remember if I pushed the button while it was in netural or not. That's a delayed mechanism anyway so I can't imagine that would be a problem.
I'm going to call the service rep on Monday and ask him about the TRACS system. According to Hicaira, it has to be enabled because the rear and front diffs don't lock. So, how could the system work with TRACS disabled? You would only have one front and one rear tire spinning. Right?
joeeblow1 - there was a post a while back where some guy got his LC stuck because something was wrong with the 4x4 system. I couldn't find the post number now that Edmunds has disabled viewing a complete message board (it takes forever to page through 30 pages and text search).
Does anyone else with a 2000 LC have any experience getting stuck and using 4L, the center diff, and/or 4H? Surely someone must have taken their 50K 2000+ LC offroad by now
I found this excellent article that describes the history of 4x4s and all the technology in use. It's a great read:
http://www.eskimo.com/~eliot/awd.html
Now for my explanation:
The 2000 LC has all time four wheel drive with open differentials in the front, the rear, and the center. If there were no traction control, this would actually be a pretty poor system. If you jacked up a single tire, 100% of the torque would be transfered to the spinning tire. The vehicle would go nowhere.
The locking center differential (which works in both 4H and 4L) effectively forces a split of the torque to the front and rear. But again, if one front and one rear tire were spinning they would absorb 100% of the torque and the vehicle would be stuck.
Add the ActiveTrac traction control system and you have a very effective 4 wheel drive. The computer uses the ABS system (which senses wheel velocity) to add resistance to spinning wheel(s). This effectively returns torque back to the wheels that have traction. ActiveTrac is enabled in both 4H and 4L (I've observed this and it doesn't make sense that it would be disabled in 4L).
The LC also has 4H and 4L. 4L essentially gives you a better gear ratio for heavy duty climbing, etc.
The LC has a VSC system which is essentially and anti-skid mechanism that uses both engine throttle control and the ABS system. If a skid is detected, the engine throttle is manipulated and the ABS is applied appropriately to defeat the skid and return control to the driver.
VSC is disabled when the center differential is locked and/or when the driver shifts into 4L. Why? The throttle control mechanims would be self-defeating when the LC is stuck and you are trying to provide lots of power to the wheels to either rock the vehicle or grind out of the mud.
I'm guessing that in most situations 4H, ActiveTrac, plus a locked center diff would be more than adequate. 4L would only be required when you're stuck and climbing steep grades.
Does anyone know what the torque split is when the center differential is locked? I'd assume 50/50, but that's not always the case.
Hicaira, it seems to me that the ActiveTrac system is actually better than locking front and rear diffs. Why? Because a locked front/rear diff will split torque 50/50. That means a spinning tire still robs the other tire of torque. With ActiveTrac, close to 100% of the torque can go to the tire that has traction. What do you think?
tjg1
After doing some research I've determined that while I would love a new LC, a 97 actually fits my budget. Any known problems with the 97? Is the inline 6 enough power? Majority of miles will be spent on highway and around town, with regular trips to Tahoe and remote Colorado ranch with family and dogs. Any words of wisdom out there as I go looking for my 97 TLC?
Thanks in advance for the help!
The other thing to look at is the rear main seal. They typically will seep a bit. Just make sure it doesn't progress into leaking.
tjg1
A '97 fzj80 is the last of the 80 series to be imported to the US. Towing in the mountains will be a slow process unless you opt for the Safari or TRD supercharger. Normal trips and offroading will be great. Axle seals and brake pads are maintenance items on all 80's.
We have spoken with several dealerships. Only one acknowledged that they had heard complaints. Their GM had a 01 TLC with the bad stereo, but said NOT ALL of the 2001 TLC's have this bad stereo.
We love the 2001 we test drove and the price sounds good. The dealership says they will replace the entire stereo system for us.
Our questions are:
1) Do ALL the 2001 TLC's have this defective stereo system?
2) Will an exchange of the entire stereo system fix the problem?
Any information is greatly appreciated!
They replaced the front differential. My receipt says "found the front diff. exploded"! The service manager said he'd never seen anything like it. When they opened it up, metal shavings poured out with the fluid. He isn't sure what caused it, though he did say that in 4L, with the front wheels turned, there would be a lot of stress on the front differential. It shouldn't be enough to destroy it, but maybe it had an existing fault.
Anyway, I'm happy to have my LC back. Nothing makes you appreciate it more than driving a crappy Chevy Blazer for a week.
I am a little suspicious that they are willing to replace the entire audio system. IMO, the deal must be pretty rich to offer something like that.
There is no way I could react as fast or as precisely as the VCS system. Way to go Toyota.
Thanks in advance for your help!
I'm also glad the problem was tracked down and handled to your satisfaction. Its unfortunate that this happened in the first place but at least all should be well now. I too have never heard of a front (or rear) differential exploding. At least not an open one like on the LC.
lawhamptons@aol.com
As I said before, if we can afford over 50grand and want great music, then we should spend for an aftermarket system. The money you save by buying a Landcruiser could be spent on a great audio system in the car and a NAV system if you need it.
I can't believe that Toyota would not offer this as a warranty replacement. I haven't talked to my Service Dept. yet, but will now with your news.
Dianne, Cliffy, your thoughts on our chances on getting the stereo replaced under warranty.
Thanks.
They assured me that any stereo problems would be covered under warranty regardless.
I am really excited about driving the car! Thanks for the help.
Laura
Thanks
Let me tell you what I did when I installed my plates on my 2000 THC last year;
I took a piece of inner-tube, placed the plate on top, and with a pen traced the shape of the plate and the circles for the screw holes.
Than I cut the shape slightly smaller than the marks so I would not be able to see the black rubber, and placed it under the plate, forcing the screws through the holes.
It protects my paint and also gives me better sound proofing from rattle noise of metal to metal.
Good luck.
Zaksi
Does anybody know a good fit for the original Toyota roof rack on the 2000 TLC. I am looking for the simple ski rack, the one that is two units, open like a clamp on a hinge. it is attached to the two support rods.
I went to Auto accessories stores here in NJ but they told me that they don't have a model that fits the 1998-2001 TLC.
Any help with phone numbers, prices and company names would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Zaksi
Yakima makes assorted attachments, for skis they have the powderhound and big powderhound. I had the good fortune to inherit a rocketbox, which swallows a lot of gear! They have a decent website, which should have prices and such:
www.yakima.com
BTW, yakima isn't cheap, comparable to Thule, and they're both very good, the mechanisms don't seize and stick like some cheaper brands.
Thanks to zaksi for the license plate installation tip.
My long time experience with car mfgs and factory defects is don't count on or believe anything that they infer unless Toyota [not just the dealer] puts it in writing.
You will most likely get burned on this one. The handwriting is all over the wall. The deep discounts will be there after they fix the problem. I went to a good auto stereo shop to discuss, and they said they would have to change everything to fix this problem. This would cost thousands of $.
This is a great car but let them fix it before buying it. If its not a safety issue, they are not legally responsible to make a no cost fix to existing LC's.
And for all you TLC lovers. I have given every opportunity for Toyota to fix this problem to no prevail. I have even been treated very rudely by just about everyone in the Toyota organization.
I believe there was a thread on another site where an owner was looking for others to join him in a class action suit.
http://www.tlca.org/
They have a local chapter in the Bay Area and usually know what is in the market.
Join, if you are not a member. Get a monthly newsletter that has a section for used 'cruisers for sale.
HiC
2000 Stereo: Good, not great stereo. And no, it does not boom.
Perhaps the tires were different or not totally inflated on the 2000 LC. A tire will lose 1 pound of air pressure for every 5°C temperature drop.
Tires breathe, releasing about 1 pound of pressure per month.
I haven't driven a minivan yet, but like the third seat availability better - just don't like V6 as much as V8 and safety records on some are not impressive.
Does anyone have any wisdom to share before I take the plunge?
Some of the mini vans have very impressive safety records, perhaps even more so than some SUV's. Hopefully someone can add to this.
I know my wife will not drive a mini van - refuses to succumb to the "soccer mom" image (HA!)
Dianne also mentioned in a post that she heard Toyota is coming out with a new line of engines where Toyota will undoubtedly close, if not surpass, the horsepower gap with their V-8s.
lauras2 in post #382 came up with a brilliant idea. Have them change the stereo with the 2000 model, which many posts say isn't defective. This also gives you a bargaining chip during negotiations!
Hope this helps!