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How does gas at $4 and higher impact you?

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Comments

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Actually, you can grow barley, and pretty well at that,

    Just need a few subsidies now and then (KTVA). The self-reliant Michiganders who settled the farms around Palmer did okay, holding on long enough in most cases for the subdivision developers to buy them out. :shades:

    Gasoline prices hit record, pushed by bets that prices will rise (LA Times)
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,756
    Hahaha; yeah, well, everyone loves an handout entitlement, right?

    Subsidies aren't necessary to succeed. Growing the right crops in the right mix is the best bet for success. Personally, I think potatoes, sunflowers, and peonies are the way to go. As a short day plant, sunflowers might seem like an odd choice, but we have a few northern-adapted varieties that are pretty consistent producers.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,756
    Betting.... hah! There has to be chance involved to bet. The fact is that if you let people play these games with such a basic commodity, they will always win. Always.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The in-floor heat is wonderful. We had that put into our big shop in Prudhoe when we built it. The building was the warmest of our complex. And far and away the cheapest to heat with Natural Gas. Our main building had electric heat. What are you paying for heating oil this year? Looks like your gas is cheaper than San Diego. And diesel about the same.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,756
    I purchased my heating oil (750 gallons) in July of 2012, and it was, if I recall correctly, $3.57/gal.

    Right now, it's about $4/gal.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    We may have to change the name of this thread.

    LOS ANGELES (CBSLA.com) — Gas prices in Southern California rose again on Monday, leaving some drivers paying over $5.00 per gallon.

    CBS2′s Amber Lee reports the average price of a gallon of gas in the Los Angeles-Long Beach area climbed for the 25th consecutive day to $4.29 – over 50 cents higher than last month, according to the Automobile Club of Southern California.

    One gas station in downtown Los Angeles was offering regular unleaded at $5.19 on Monday, prompting at least one potential customer to exit his vehicle, snap of a photo of the station’s prices – and then drive off in search of cheaper gas.


    http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/02/18/5-gas-returns-to-southland/
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    edited February 2013
    From the linked article:

    >Analysts – who noted that gas price increases don’t usually occur until March – blamed refinery maintenance issues for a reduced supply that has drive prices upward over the last few months.

    5-13 years ago the article would have had stories about the president and vice-president having been connected with the oil business implying they somehow jacked up the prices to benefit their friends in the industry. Now the articles blame whatever the Oil Industry press releases suggest is at fault.

    RUG here at $3.75. Hardly a month ago it was $3.29 in portions of the area, having been down to $3.19.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2013
    Maybe we should just regulate them.

    Of course, lots of electric utilities are asking for permission to raise their rates due to less power being used (weak economy, more wind and solar). Maybe this is one last gouge before the number of hybrids, diesels and "ecoboost" higher mileage cars hit a significant percentage of cars on the road.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    > permission to raise their rates due to less power being used (weak economy, more wind and solar).

    A major factor for some is that the EPA is requiring them to shut down coal-fired plants which are cheaper to operate.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    I purchased my heating oil (750 gallons) in July of 2012, and it was, if I recall correctly, $3.57/gal.


    I made the decision to convert over to an all-electric heat pump back in the fall of '08, when home heating oil hit $5.62 per gallon. And, wouldn't you know it, as soon as it was finished, and it was time to start turning it on in the cold weather, fuel prices plummeted while electric rates soared! :sick:

    Things have leveled out since then though. I used to average about 450 gallons of oil per year, and the last time I checked, I think heating oil around here is a bit over $4/gal. So, at today's rates, I'd average around $1800-2000 per year in oil, plus the ~$300 service contract on the furnace. My electric bill is higher, to be sure, but not that much. I'd estimate maybe $500-600 more, thanks to the heat pump. It might actually save me a bit of money in the summer, because I used to run 3 window unit a/cs. Now I just run the heat pump, plus one window unit upstairs.

    I imagine though, that the further north you go, the more useless a heat pump is.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,756
    There's some experimentation with various heat pump designs up here, but I don't think they have caught on in a wide-spread fashion.

    450 gallons a year that far south?! I think your home could benefit greatly from some thermal upgrades. ;)

    It is -20F here this morning. :(
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2013
    In the Midwest maybe. (thestarpress.com). Funny how utility profits are higher there. (insideindianabusiness.com). :shades:

    "The national wholesale electric market is deeply depressed. The technique of fracking for natural gas has brought a large supply of inexpensive fuel to the market, which power companies in other states use to make cheap electricity to feed onto the grid." (registerguard.com)

    Natural gas prices are helping lower electricity rates in NJ. (mycentraljersey.com).

    And out in AZ, there's a recent rate increase, partly blamed on the utility's own energy conservation efforts that lowered consumption, irritating the very consumers who changed light bulbs and insulated their houses. The utility is so scared of not being able to pay their sunk costs, they are attacking solar. (cleantechnica.com). They'll really be hurting paying for the increased security and waste management costs of their nuke plants in the future. (Duke Power is having to spend something like $500 million just on better safety/security for one nuke plant).

    Looking at the CAFE targets for US passenger cars, if you were an oil company, would you want to put a lot of money toward building new refineries?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Several good points and questions.

    Natural gas fired generation has not done anything in CA to lower rates. The state is extorting money on their CO2 scam. Forcing 20% of our power to be generated by renewable energy. There are a lot of residential solar systems that raise the cost for everyone else. My neighbor with solar only pays $5 per month to be hooked up to the grid. He ended up with a surplus at the end of last year. Of course he will be paying for the solar for many years to come. Not sure if it is a good deal or not. I don't think you would get a permit for wind. It takes at least a couple years to get the Environmental impact study done for a wind farm. I don't see where NG produced from fracking is a better deal than clean coal.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2013
    I think the emissions issues are easier (cheaper) to meet with natural gas though. And I think the NG plants are easier and faster to build.

    It's kind of funny though to consider that as mpg "doubles" so does your gas bill.

    I need a Volt and one of these gizmos. Actually an electric minivan so I could just pull over, lug it out, and recharge the batteries.

    There's certainly plenty of snow around this winter to reflect all that solar. :shades:
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    450 gallons a year that far south?! I think your home could benefit greatly from some thermal upgrades.

    Oh, definitely! My house is about 97 years old, has been added onto over the decades in a somewhat slipshod fashion, and has almost no insulation. Thinking about it, I guess it's a miracle my oil bills (and electric bills) haven't been even higher than they are!

    As for temps, I think it got down to about +25F here last nite so yeah, pretty mild in comparison. I think about the worst we've seen so far this winter is 12-13F overnight. Worst temps I've seen that I can remember was back in early 1994 when we had lows of around -12F or so.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,756
    Oh, sheesh. I should know that (with all the photos you've posted over the years). We're looking to buy a little cottage in PA, built in 1910 or some odd, and I'm sure that place is similar in its lack of thermal attention.

    Being from the sub-arctic, I'm sure we'll make that a priority if we're able to get it.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Every year there comes a time when gas prices put hybrid and compact cars into focus, but it's not often we have them under the microscope this early."

    Fuel-Efficient Vehicles Run Short on Incentives in February (marketwatch.com)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    No good reason for the automakers to give incentives on cars that are selling well. I am hoping it will make dealing on a diesel SUV easier. If I can even find one. They are in short supply around here.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    From the March 1 Wall Street Journal, prices per gallon of gasoline in various cities:

    New York, $4.88

    Paris, 8.21

    London, 7.15

    Hong Kong, 8.10

    Sydney, 5.68

    I assume that's for regular, although the article didn't specify the grade. Also, New York is high priced for an American city. Most of us pay less than $4.00/gallon, so maybe we shouldn't complain.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    And in Caracas, it's down to a penny a gallon (after adjusting for the exchange rate). (eluniversal.com)

    Looks like regular in Mexico City is running around $3.18 USD.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    Of course, in most of those places, they get something for the taxes that make up for those price differences vs the US. Whereas most of us here just get second world quality roads and decaying infrastructure for our tax proceeds.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Speaking of 2nd world quality roads, just passed under a concrete overpass in NE Philly where all the rebar was exposed from the crumbling concrete. This is a disaster just waiting to happen.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    True, although it's difficult to conclude how it nets out in terms of value per tax dollar. Given a choice of paying, say, 1 1/2-2x our price for gas in exchange for better maintained roads and bridges, what percentage of drivers would choose the former? Or, in Europe, would most motorists prefer a significant reduction in fuel prices in exchange for a degraded infrastructure? I suppose in Europe there might be a wide variation, depending on the country.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    NE Philly where all the rebar was exposed from the crumbling concrete. This is a disaster just waiting to happen.

    Your stimulus that did not get used on infrastructure projects as promised. Don't sleep under that bridge or drive over it. One of 30,000+ in the USA considered unsafe.

    11.5 percent of US bridges, crossed by an average of 282,672,680 vehicles daily, were graded as "structurally deficient" by the Federal Highway Administration


    http://www.businessinsider.com/american-bridges-in-need-of-repair-2012-6?op=1
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    I suspect in Europe there would be support, but maybe not enough to repeal the taxes. They understand the idea of a social good more than most here. And of course, most people there live in places where population density and travel distances make transit solutions and quality roads easier to finance than here.

    In the US, where due to our sketchy capitalism that socializes losses and privatizes profits, nobody would support it, as too many people are on the edge as it is. I'd be thrilled to simply see licensing standards from more developed places.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    You'd think a surplus would lower prices. :confuse:

    "A glut of ethanol in the gasoline supply is threatening to push up prices at the pump and may have exacerbated the growing cost gap between regular gasoline and premium, some oil experts say."

    Ethanol Surplus May Lift Gas Prices (NY Times)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Not easy to grasp. What it tells me is a person is better off with a diesel vehicle, to avoid all the various mixes of ethanol.
    The more ethanol the lousier the mileage.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    edited March 2013
    Ethanol is agricultural welfare, whether ADM or large corn farmers...and Democrat or Republican - it ain't gonna change. My money says Congress and the EPA will ram that 15% down our throat, just like other recent dumb moves - think light bulbs, sugar quotas and on and on! To hell with what you want or need, it's special interest campaign contribution money!
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    >You'd think a surplus would lower prices.

    It was only last week I was listening to a news story explaining higher gas prices because of a shortage of ethanol. Was that wrong? This article sounds like it's too much ethanol being manipulated for political purpose to change the Renewable Fuel Standard.

    The article is confusing as far as how it's been written. I need to go back through and analyze it like an essay. I suspect part of the article got cut in editing?

    The real tenet is that premium fuel will cost more just because more cars will need it in the future to try to reach the silly, over-reaching fuel mileage mandate of this Administration.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • jae5jae5 Member Posts: 1,206
    With more people buying PEVs (Plug-in Electric Vehicles) what are your thoughts on continuing rises in petrol prices? Let's say if the gov meets it's goal of the 50K or so per year in sales of PEVs, along with continued decline of fuel usage, does anyone think prices would have to fall or would the oil/gas traders / companies make "changes" to keep the prices elevated?

    My thoughts are despite demand, the prices will remain artificially high by any means necessary to keep the record profits. I mean, I never understood drill baby drill Faux News crap-o-la because oil is sold on the world market, to get the highest $$$ trade possible. Plus, with China's demand why would our home oil go to $2 / be cheaper even if we drill every nook & cranny in the U.S.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I mean, I never understood drill baby drill Faux News crap-o-la because oil is sold on the world market

    I don't think price was the issue. Buying from countries that hate US and balance of trade was more the issue.

    Now we see buy from companies that make their products in the USA. May be a bit late now that we have shipped a huge percentage of our jobs off shore.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    edited March 2013
    > I never understood drill baby drill Faux News

    I never understand why some people think Fox News is biased. They obviously don't watch the news reporting part. They may watch some of the commentators in the evening, but the news is far from biased. In fact, I've been surprised how complete it is. Much more complete than ABC or CBS on topics covered and topics omitted.

    As for Fox News and their news reporting, it is much more fair and balanced than the source of much of the ridicule, MSNBC. Here's Pew Report on their lack of fairness.

    http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2013/03/19/pew-study-msnbc-isnt-really-a-- news-network-n1537986

    I personally listen to lots of different views and I can pick out the garbage, the slant by omission of whole topic or omission of parts of a report.

    But I consider the term "Faux News" to be offensive because it's so far from the truth.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    That's the fallacy of all that tea party crapola about the XL pipeline in Nebraska and oil supply and prices. It's really about a few incremental jobs in Houston area refineries once it's built and then oil company and refinery profit increases. Not going to mean squat for US gasoline prices despite all that BS on Faux News.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    edited March 2013
    I dunno, not just the Fox news channel, but Fox news in general always seems a bit sensationalistic to me. Actually, a good source for balanced news is the Wall Street Journal as long as you ignore the editorial pages section of it. TV news is more about entertainment and marketing, and cable channels are even worse.

    It just occurred to me that I believe both Fox News and WSJ are now owned by that Rupert Murdoch guy and his media empire that is in trouble for their antics in the UK. Kind of ironic! Luckily, I believe he's allowed the WSJ reporters to stay away from that tabloid approach.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited March 2013
    We used to subscribe but the WSJ has gone downhill, but then again, most of the papers have.

    I find this a little hard to believe (naturally we have a drive planned there in a few weeks):

    Chicago has highest gas prices in U.S.

    Since it's from the local ABC station in Chicago, there may be an element of sensationalism going on. :shades:
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    edited March 2013
    >ABC station in Chicago, there may be an element of sensationalism

    Is there a gas tax in Chicago that's in addition to other taxes? I think I remember reading that after visiting there a few years ago and being surprised at how high fuel prices were.

    I found this which is a couple years old:

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-06-19/business/ct-biz-0619-bf-gasoline-2- 0110619_1_prices-rocket-gas-prices-crude-oil-prices

    But that's just state sales tax.

    Illinois is unusual for allowing counties and municipalities to tax gasoline.

    Consider total sales taxes in Chicago: City, county and Regional Transportation Authority sales taxes add another 3.5 percent, but because of the ethanol factor, it's 2.8 percent.

    In sales taxes alone, a $4 gallon of gas goes to about $4.31, according to calculations based on figures provided by the Illinois Department of Revenue.

    But there's more.

    When you buy gas in Chicago, you pay a couple more flat taxes. The city of Chicago and Cook County not only levy sales taxes but also flat taxes of 5 cents and 6 cents, respectively. Illinois is the only state to allow all these different taxes to be levied in concert, Sykuta said.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Must be how they pay for the L, but I'd rather ride it than drive.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    edited March 2013
    ...and the WSJ subscription prices have gone way up to accommodate all that Saturday issue focus on NYC real estate, fashion and entertainment. You can get the relevant business markets news much cheaper in the weekly "Barron's". As for Chicago gas prices, I think it also includes sales tax on top of all the fuel taxes.

    PS - I think they might be higher in Honolulu!
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Yeah chicago has a higher gas tax vs the rest of the state. I always make sure I have plenty of gas prior to entering the city.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I like reading the NYC stuff and I still read a lot of the WSJ. Just not subscribing now.

    I'll have to remember to fill north of the city and we won't be driving much once we get to town so hopefully I can avoid getting gas there period.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I'll have to remember to fill north of the city and we won't be driving much once we get to town so hopefully I can avoid getting gas there period.

    Don't get killed while in Chicago. No one has enough money to get me to drive through Chicago, Detroit, NYC etc etc etc etc. I would drive 200 miles to avoid a big city. My son in law that lives in Indiana refuses to drive anywhere in Illinois. Says they have the most corrupt cops in the USA. And no CCW. Nothing there worth the risk including the pizza.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    But I consider the term "Faux News" to be offensive because it's so far from the truth.

    I don't watch any TV news but do agree. The Left has pulled the wool over the eyes of the sheep on what is honest and what is not in the Media.

    I must admit I have become addicted to one TV show. Diners, Drive-ins & Dives. The Food Network is on the basic channels that are included with our Cable Internet. I watched a couple times and was hooked. Guy cracks me up and he hits the wildest eateries in the USA. NOTHING else on TV is worth my time.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Bah, there you go again. I have Chicago, Seattle and Anchorage down for the planned trip and then NYC the next month and hopefully LA sometime this summer. Still trying to figure out how to work in Mexico City this year and not go completely broke. :shades:
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    >Chicago, Seattle and Anchorage ... NYC...LA ...Mexico City

    Well, it sure sounds like $4.xx gas is NOT going to affect Steve's traveling. That's a lot of miles. :blush:

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    >refuses to drive anywhere in Illinois. Says they have the most corrupt cops in the USA.

    That was true back in my undergrad days at BSU: when visiting lady friends from college in "The Region" of NW Indiana, they said to tuck a $20 bill behind my driver license to hand it to the cop with the bill underneath if I got stopped in that area.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Lol, that would apply to lake county!
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    >lake county!

    The advice was primarily for Illinois and Cook Cty, but included NW Indiana.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Anchorage is hardly a large city, except for Alaskans. I can honestly say if I never go back to Alaska I will not miss it. Seattle may have the worst traffic in the USA, or at least tied with Los Angeles. Life is too short to spend time fighting traffic in big cities. Not to mention they are all cesspools of inhumanity. Gas is too expensive to waste it caught in a traffic jam. I will always take the roads less traveled, and avoid the interstate highways. Small towns and back country highways are very appealing to me. I have mapped out our trip to Ohio and Indiana this Spring. We will try to avoid all major cities. We may go through Dallas to visit family. I think we can avoid all the other cities over a million people. My wife loves to look through thrift shops in small towns. I cannot imagine myself in Mexico City. You are a brute for punishment.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    they said to tuck a $20 bill behind my driver license to hand it to the cop with the bill underneath if I got stopped in that area.

    That sounds like Mexico 20 years ago. Only $10 was plenty there. I have had traveling friends say to avoid Louisiana as the state troopers are out to get tourists on the Interstates. I rarely see any cops on the secondary highways.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited March 2013
    I love 'em all (and I love the free air miles - this next trip will wipe 'em all out for good though, dropped the airline affinity card a while back).

    If the van dies and we get a 40 mpg rig, I suspect we'll spend the same on gas, but just go more (assuming the in-laws stay healthy). The law of unintended consequences lives on.

    I updated my spreadsheets over the weekend. Since getting the '99 van, we've spent ~$21,000 on gas for it (182k @ 21.5 mpg, assuming $2.50 gas on average). Spent another $6k on gas for the Subaru since '03.

    Really should go to one vehicle getting 40mpg and save $10k plus insurance and fees over the next decade. Maybe we will once we move closer to a bigger city that has dealerships and mechanics. ;)
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