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How does gas at $4 and higher impact you?

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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I can see you in the GLK250 Bluetec. EZ 40 MPG highway. No problem driving to Mexico City. Not sure how MB diesel would do with non ULSD.
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    berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Heck, the far right and far left are both pulling the wool over people's eyes and Fox is a propaganda outlet for the the tea party while MSNBC is one for the left wingers.
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    berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    If you fly into Mexico City, just be careful of independent taxi's that can be waiting to get you mugged. The weather there is often quite nice because of the higher altitude.
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    dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    The advice was primarily for Illinois and Cook Cty, but included NW Indiana.

    Yes, I was referring to Lake County Indiana, which is on the NW Indiana border with Illinois.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The buses are so good there the only place I've driven is northern Baja. I think we've hit over 20 of the Mexican states, and never had to wait even an hour for a connection.
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    imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,154
    >propaganda outlet for the the tea party

    Guess you must have missed the "robust, fair, and balanced" in
    Pew's report.

    "While Fox's opinion programming clearly slants to the right (albeit with no shortage of left-leaning guests), much of its news programming is robust, fair and balanced. Not so at MSNBC. According to a new nonpartisan analysis by the respected Pew Research Center, MSNBC barely boasts any news coverage at all:"

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited March 2013
    I was eavesdropping at breakfast at the local cafe yesterday and three guys were talking about the mills closing around here and how the fix was in and how the union guys all got shafted while the bosses got golden parachutes.

    One guy then complained that the liberal media was trying to make all the unions look bad.

    I managed not to do a spit-take with my coffee. :shades:

    Perception is everything. Back to the topic?
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    If you fly into Mexico City, just be careful

    If I were to fly into Mexico City it would only be an airport transfer point to some place nice. Like Costa Rica or San Miguel de Allende. I may be forced to visit Belize, my little brother is building a retirement home there.

    http://www.eco-futures.com/discoverbelize.html
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,687
    I have had traveling friends say to avoid Louisiana as the state troopers are out to get tourists on the Interstates. I rarely see any cops on the secondary highways.

    Back in 2001 I got busted by the cops outside of Jennings, Louisiana. I forget how fast I was going, but it was flow of traffic. Of course, that doesn't matter. Ticket was something like $180.

    In 2002, I was coming through Louisiana again, and made sure to do the speed limit. I remember though, once we got near the Mississippi state line, the cops were out, swarming like flies on crap. They were speeding, cutting drivers off, having a lot of near-misses, all in the name of catching an out-of-stater before they hit the state line. Essentially, saying that in their mind, giving someone a $200 ticket is worth risking lives and property. And the police wonder why they get such a bad rap.
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    berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I think the south has a reputation for being notorious for ripping off out of state drivers. Although I don't know if that is as true today as years back. I remember being stationed in Georgia back in the 70's. Between rip off gas stations and police speed traps, the governor actually went on TV to warn people about it.
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    lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Y'all drive careful, heah?
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,687
    Y'all drive careful, heah?

    Well, the one that pulled me over in Louisiana was more like Sheriff Branford on "Smokey and the Bandit". I have more of an accent than he did!
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,169
    Do you think he sounded taller on the radio? :shades:
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,687
    edited March 2013
    Probably...this dude was pretty short. But, that wasn't germane to the situation at hand. :P

    And, when I saw how big the ticket was, I came close to saying "What the hell is the world comin' to?" :sick:
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,169
    The GD Germans got nothin to do with it :shades:

    I've heard the interstates in GA used for people to go to and from Florida can be speedtraps based on vehicle plate, too.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited March 2013
    the governor actually went on TV to warn people about it.

    That was none other than the notorious Lester Maddox. A friend of mine in Chattanooga in the mid-70s got busted for speeding somewhere (MS iirc) and tried to tell the judge he didn't have enough cash for the fine. The judge told him no problem, the bus for the pea-picking farm would leave at 6 in the morning and he could work it off. My friend found the money. :)
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    imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,154
    edited March 2013
    >notorious Lester Maddox.

    IIRC there was a Lester Maddox Axe Handle store in Underground Atlanta among all the bars and Lilly Glass Blower stores. This was way back maybe late 60s?

    image

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

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    berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Jeez - I believe you're right! I don't remember the whole story, but I think he was a segregationist who once chased some people out of his restaurant with an ax handle. Then one day I'm at Underground Atlanta and he has a store where he's peddling autographed ax handles. Things have changed a lot there over the decades! Really, in many respects besides that it's hard to imagine back to that decade these days.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    People loved Lester when I was growing up in Mississippi in those days because he diverted a lot of heat from all our problems. We had more than our share of idiots but none had the populist hook like Maddox or George Wallace did.

    Gas was cheap back then - I remember 29.9 mostly. Made for cheap Molotov cocktails I suppose. :sick:
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    jae5jae5 Member Posts: 1,206
    Wow, the fairy tales are sure flying... :P Cops in Chi-town are no more corrupt than L.A., NYC, OC, SF, BH, Oakland, SD, D-town, Philly, Indy, KY, AL, TN, WI and every other small or large city in the U.S. and abroad.

    Don't be scared, you can just stay on I-94 & just drive straight through Chicago, not actually on any neighborhood streets? But you'll miss great sites, food, micro-breweries, historical locations...
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Drivers lose. :shades:

    EPA Plans to Require Cleaner Gas (Newser)

    "The EPA will require refiners to reduce the amount of sulfur to cut down on smog, reports the Washington Post. The cut is a sizable one, dropping the allowable limit by two-thirds from 30 parts per million to 10. Backers say the move will eventually save the US billions in health care costs, but the oil industry disputes that and says the only tangible result will be higher gas prices.

    Automakers are big fans of the change because it will make it easier for them to meet emissions standards nationwide."
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Exxon Cleans up Arkansas Oil Spill (VOA)

    Obama hasn't decided on the final Keystone permitting, so this should embolden the speculators to crank up futures prices.
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Becoming just a little more oil independent seems to be difficult for the USA. Every day you see folks blocking pipelines, exploration and production of oil on US soil. I found this interesting:

    Permit problem for barge Shell needs for Arctic

    An oil-spill containment barge that Shell Oil needs for Arctic drilling faces a new challenge as it undergoes repairs in Bellingham.

    The Associated Press

    BELLINGHAM, Wash. —

    An oil-spill containment barge that Shell Oil needs for Arctic drilling faces a new challenge as it undergoes repairs in Bellingham.

    The Washington Ecology Department said Thursday the companies retrofitting the Arctic Challenger - Greenberry Industrial and Superior Energy Services - need to apply for storm water permits for runoff.

    The Bellingham Herald reports ( http://is.gd/cpmxJy) the permits should have been obtained in May, but the department let the work proceed because the project was expected to wrap up in July. It takes about two months to obtain a permit.

    Problems have delayed work on the barge and some equipment was damaged last weekend during testing. Without the barge, Shell had to cancel plans to complete exploratory wells this year in the Chukchi and Beaufort seas before ice closes in.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited August 2013
    Wasn't it Shell that tried to get their rig out of Alaska waters around Dillingham last year when it broke free? They were trying to avoid a tax day accounting from what I heard. Their Arctic adventures have been one screw-up after another from reading the ADN.

    Maybe the fact that Conoco-Philips owns the pols up there has something to do with Shell's miscues and AK permitting problems too. Who knows who owns the pols in Washington state. :shades:
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Sadly everyone seems to be owned by someone. I rarely read the ADN the last 25 years as it was very left leaning. Hard to believe in a state where oil pays the bills and the populace is conservative. BP is probably the biggest player in the State. Though Shell always had something going on in the Arctic. Of course Exxon actually owns most of the oil. I just thought it a bit strange they would hold up an oil spill response craft. I guess the Greenies behind it knew that would hold up the whole project. There are a lot of people that do not want US taking oil from anywhere. They are quite active everywhere. And should be held directly responsible for the high price of gas.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I'm surprised it's at all economic to do much new up there right now; lots easier heading for N. Dakota. Exxon is probably funding the bills behind the scenes to keep enough oil flowing through the pipeline so it doesn't get shut down.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I don't think environmentalists in alaska affect oil prices. Speculation in oil futures drive up prices. You could drill every currently known drop out of Alaska and maybe a year or two's worth of oil.

    Besides, guess what America's largest EXPORT product is? Yep, fuel oil.
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    berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I think the EPA served a good purpose when it was first established. But now it has become an over powered bureaucracy that is hindering our economy, businesses and therefore American workers and consumers. This 15% ethanol rule despite tons of expert advice otherwise is just the latest over the top action by that agency.
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    berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Speculation in oil futures drive up prices

    Bingo! That remark has been made by the oil industry, the Saudi's, even I believe some financiers like Warren Buffet. Deaf ears in Congress though - Ka-ching!
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The ethanol rules are driven by the farm lobby. They are losing a bit of clout so there's hope.
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    dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    Why are the Saudi's worried about Fracking?
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    dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    All these noble causes and still 14% unemployment.
    Ethanol overproduction wastes limited fresh water and causes SLR.
    Pumping fresh water from underground to grow ethanol corn results in runoff that is a cause of global SLR. The Ogallala Aquifer will soon be empty. Where do you think that water ended up?

    Offshore drilling for oil has the opposite effect. the void under the ocean gets filled with sea water, causing sea levels to fall.

    I hope all SLR worriers are pro offshore drilling. NO, If the US EPA was in charge of the Sahara desert, there would soon be a sand shortage there.

    54.5 mpg mandate? Why is there 3 used 2013 Volts sitting on the Chevy lot last night? Can someone get the $7500 rebate from the gov and then trade it after a year? Or did the $550 a month lease price ruin the benefit of 210 mpg and the leasees just wanted out? The Nissan Leaf sales fell off a cliff too.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I rather doubt that drilling makes the oceans drop. That stretches credulity.

    Americans have to stop thinking that everything isn't connected to everything else.

    The chaos of our energy policy is directly related to the utter chaos of our view of the world and how it actually works.

    In this chaos, surely we are not alone on the globe.
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Besides, guess what America's largest EXPORT product is? Yep, fuel oil.

    I'm doing my part to keep fuel oil here. I just bought a diesel SUV. :)
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Agreed! Drilled here, burned here---LOL!
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,169
    edited August 2013
    Exactly. I believe there is little to no connection between price trends and legitimate supply and demand relationships.

    Thinking of that, I wonder if we'd see a supply glut if our beloved traffic engineers could do a better job managing traffic controls. So much has to be wasted going from red to red to red. Almost doesn't seem accidental.
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    berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Why are the Saudi's worried about Fracking?

    There's a certain irony I suppose to the speculators pushing gasoline prices out of whack. The resulting artificially high oil prices have facilitated things like fracking, tar sands and shale, and deep sea exploration which would otherwise be less financially feasible. I don't think the Saudi's are necessarily as worried about fracking as some may think. Their primary markets are Europe and Asia, not North America. But sometimes the Saudi's have to "talk" to keep control in OPEC from places like Iran.
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    dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    I rather doubt that drilling makes the oceans drop. That stretches credulity

    I just read this last week. Offshore oil is sometimes just under a layer of clay. when you take oil out, you think clay will hold up 600 feet of ocean?

    When we found the huge reserve in the Gulf of Mexico, Obama freaked. He cut it off and now the Cubans and Mexicans are leasing it to the Chinese, who are drilling sideways to get at it. So the sea level will fall when alarmists want it to rise, in spite of Obama's success against US offshore drilling.

    In fracking, water is pumped into the ground. That water would otherwise be surface water and eveentually run off into the oceans. Again, fracking fights SLR. Ocean evaporation captured and sent underground.

    How to get oil out? I wonder why the oil just comes out by itself, like a baloon letting out air? Maybe hydraulic pressure from the ocean pushing down? Is your theory: the earth's mantle is pushing up, defying gravity?

    All the Brazillian rainforest destruction also puts water into the oceans. With the rainforests or any forest removal, the earth's land holds less water. (desert vs lush vegetation). The atmosphere holds less with less forestation, therefore the sea rises. The wet surface area of earth is reduced.

    Once again, one volcano eruption can outdo decades of man's impact on all this...evaporation, temperature, poison in the atm.
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Cubans and Mexicans are leasing it to the Chinese, who are drilling sideways to get at it.

    Same thing is going on in Alaska along the Canadian border. We blocked all drilling with ANWR blockage. The Canadians are sucking oil out of a pool that stretches under US soil.

    Won't be long before the Chinese are producing oil within 40 miles of Key West. Oh well. As long as we keep US oil companies from exploiting the oil.
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    imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,154
    Further, we don't want the CO2 from burning the oil and coal because of the faux science claiming global warming, excuse me, climate change because of the CO2. However it's perfectly okay for the other countries to extract oil and burn it and ship the coal to their country and burn it.

    I guess the burning there doesn't form CO2 but does form CO2 if burned in the US?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Speaking of coal. Why doesn't our Federal government spend some of that green money to clean up coal fired generators. Instead of going after all the worthless pie in the sky wind and solar projects. Use our massive coal resource to produce cleaner cheap energy for the people. Like you say shipping it to China to burn without a lot of regulations makes very little sense.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The sea level will not fall. Whoever told you this theory needs a science education.

    Total consumption of *oil per day* in USA -- 18 million barrels. PER DAY!

    Do the math. Even add up 5 MORE discoveries off Mexico, or TEN. Throw in oil discovered in Gulf of Mexico. Throw in Alaska. Then fudge it 2X. or 3X.

    It solves nothing, it just prolongs the agony. At best, you'd increase US oil production...what...10%?

    Most of which we would export.
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    dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    The bad things causing sea level rise:
    (A) The Netherlands and Florida pumping water into the ocean to create land
    (B) UAE piling sand in the Persian Gulf to create million dollar waterfront communities
    (C) That airport in Japan that was taken from a mountain. The one that is sinking because it is on clay at the ocean floor
    (D) Oceanic volcanos that continue to push up the ocean floor, displacing water
    (E) watering crops from unreplenished groundwater like from the ogallala aquifer
    (F) eruption of volcanoes where the ash falls into the sea
    (G) loss of topsoil due to runoff into rivers. It ends up filling the ocean
    (H) tear down of any vegetation, especially the Brazillian rainforest
    (I) boats that sink
    (J) beach erosion
    (K) glacial melt at edge of land
    (L) temp increase over greenland
    (M) dirt in the air from erupting volcanoes reduces evaporation
    (N) Japan's and China's shipping fleets. Boats displace water by their tonnage. These are the biggest exporters in the world
    (O) Ships used to bring Saudi and Nicaraguan Oil to China
    (P) The world's Navys, of which China is building the most to add.
    (Q) The coal plant a day that China brings on line
    (R) coral growth
    (S) summer
    (T) cattle grazing. gnawed down grass holds less moisture

    Which one of these can alarmists latch on to to get their hands in America's wallet?

    Ans: (K & L)....temp rise could be blamed on America, even though China is hell bent on cheap coal. We can't go after the Netherlands..That would be like Goliath attacking David.

    I just got my July electric bill in the mail...Avg temp for 31 day billing cycle was 74 degrees. Last year same period the avg temp was 84 degrees. Should we base our future plans on last year or this year?

    Things causing sea levels to fall:
    (1) offshore drilling for oil, natural gas
    (2) Dams like the ones all over the world
    (3) water wells that cause sea water encroachment
    (4) dredging harbors and sand extraction to sell
    (5) an unusually cold winter
    (6) mineral extraction from the sea
    (7 )winter itself in either hemisphere
    (8) reforestation
    (9) increase in the Earth's circumference by 2165 feet if the surface temp of land goes up 2 degrees F
    (10) Desalinazation plants

    Seems like America hits this "GOOD" list better than any other country. Do we get any credit for this?

    SHHHHH...That won't help ship American dollars to the 3rd world.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited August 2013
    The ocean level is rising and will continue to rise and there is no logical scapegoat that the energy business can concoct.

    Base your future on wild climate variations, not on temperature. Your house in florida may sink (probably will on the coast) and your roof may disappear in Oklahoma and your cattle and crops may die of heat or freezing temperatures.

    Thought Experiment:

    We each have $1 million to invest. You invest in current fossil fuel technology. I will invest solely in green energy solutions.

    In 20 years I will be rich and you'll be dead broke.
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Unless the Greenies come up with something far better than is currently available oil will be at a bigger premium making more money for the investors than the last 20 years. I invested in GSPI about 10 years ago and it is worth a lot less than I paid for it. I don't sell as it may fool me. They are still in business selling products made from algae. I expect one morning to check my portfolio and my 10,000 shares will be soaring to the sky. Keep investing in green technologies like I have done. I don't think I will be around to reap any of the benefits. I also have a bunch of ECOB. Just hedging my bets on the Green future. I think it will bankrupt the state of CA before we see any benefits.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    California has a budget surplus actually.

    Anyway, keep investing green, it will pay off handsomely I believe.

    Oil could end up like gold. You have gold, say, that you bought at $1600, and yes, maybe now you want $1700 for it.

    But I don't want your gold. I don't need your gold.

    I, on the other hand, bought SPAM. Lots of it. You are hungry, so you need my SPAM---but I still don't need your GOLD.

    So who's going to win this deal? :P

    It may be that the need for oil will decrease faster than its scarcity increases, IF green tech becomes completely marketable and competitive.
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I, on the other hand, bought SPAM. Lots of it. You are hungry, so you need my SPAM---but I still don't need your GOLD.

    So who's going to win this deal?

    The guy with the gun. He gets my gold and your spam.

    IF green tech becomes completely marketable and competitive.

    That is such a huge IF. I was an early adopter on solar. What a giant rip off that was. Did not last 5 years on my home in AZ. And of course the company was bankrupt. If I was a betting man, I would say Algal Biodiesel has the most potential to replace fossil fuel. But still a ways off. Now the Germans just came up with a new Lithium battery that may make EVs a little more practical. I don't see it helping our economy much. we don't seem to be making much of anything of value these days.

    http://phys.org/news/2013-06-zsw-lithium-ion-battery-years.html
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    that's way too grim a view of human nature, which I don't share. Maybe because i don't watch television, which keeps my paranoia levels on "average"? :P
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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,796
    Oil will remain extremely valuable for a long time to come simply through it's higher value uses (not burning it), such as plastics and pharmaceuticals. That's not to say that we should put all of our eggs in any one basket, but only that each investment carries its own risk and its own timeline for the greatest rewards. As with anything, get in on the ground floor and you have a longer ride to the top (both in time and in potential payoff). :shades:

    The oil companies are investing in other technologies as well. It is clearly in their best interest to do so. This is not because the demand for oil will lessen, but because the economic life cycle of their principal product will extend if society uses it for the high value products rather than to keep comfortable and mobile.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited August 2013
    True enough. Driving is an elective, but keeping warm or growing food---not so much.

    Who knows? Perhaps at $7 a gallon, more Americans will start walking and biking, and thus save on healthcare costs.
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