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How does gas at $4 and higher impact you?

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  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I remember the Bob Newhart show in the 1970s with Suzanne Pleshette. That was pretty good. Don't think I ever saw the second show he had.

    With the price of gas more people should just stay home and watch videos, rather than wasting gas going to the theater. Not to mention the horrible price for movie tickets and lousy popcorn. My wife still uses the trusty crank popcorn popper. We buy the 8lbs of Orville's best at Costco. And only use real butter on our popcorn. Got to keep the omega6 intake down. Then settle back for a good episode of Poirot, Foyle's war or Morse from our video collection.

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  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    That's what we need to do around here - make a reality show and show average people "beating" the dealer (or the gas pumps).

    Well, there is this coming up:

    Edmunds.com to Hire Six New Compact Car Shoppers; Fun Work Intended to Turn Consumers into Experts
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    There was one episode where they showed an early 80's Cutlass Ciera, and it was brown, perhaps in an attempt to keep some continuity with the "On Golden Pond" B-roll footage of the '73 Delta that was used in the opening credits. And, there was one episode where George Utley was serving on the volunteer fire department, and dropped the keys to the fire engine down in a storm drain, and there was an emergency call. Kirk, the guy who owned the Minuteman Café before Larry and the Darryls took over, suggested they load up the ladder in Dick's car and he responded something like "We are not going to fight a fire in an Oldsmobile!"

    So even though that '73 Delta was never shown outside of the credits, they did at least try to keep a bit of an Olds continuity.

    There was also an episode where either Tom Utley, or that guy who was always losing jobs, got a job as a used car salesman, and I think there was a thinly-disguised Cavalier in the showroom. Other than that, the only cars they'd show were in stock-footage exterior location shots. For instance, sometimes you can see an Omni/Rizon or perhaps a Rabbit drive past the Stratford. And there were a few exterior small-town shots that would show cars parked at the curb, driving past, etc.

    As for the 70's "Bob Newhart Show", I don't think they ever showed his car, although they've made references to both Bob and Emily having their own cars. I thought I heard someone say there was a Monte Carlo in one episode, but I never saw it. And I seem to remember an episode or two where they'd mention renting a car to go out of town, so the writers weren't always consistent. There were plenty of exterior street shots though, around the Chicago area, where you'd see plenty of local traffic. There was an episode where Jerry the Orthodontist rented a conversion van to take some orphans camping, and they ended up in a parking lot in a bad neighborhood because all the campgrounds were booked up.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    >with the "On Golden Pond" B-roll footage of the '73 Delta that was used in the opening credits.

    Thanks. Now I remember that from someone talking about it elsewhere.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    On the subject of blasts from the past, I caught an episode of "Maude", where the characters were discussing the energy crisis, so that would put this around 1974. They were talking about cars, and Walter, Maude's husband, says to his friend Arthur (Conrad Bain), "If you're such a patriot, then why are you still driving that big 8-cylinder job?", to which he replies, "It's part of my image. Would you trust a surgeon who drove a Volkswagen?!"

    And he followed that up with "And what about that car you're driving, Walter. It's foreign! That's one of the reasons General Motors is going broke!"

    The more things change, the more they stay the same, I guess. Here it is, nearly 40 years later, and we're still discussing energy issues, General Motors' financial issues, etc.

    Kinda funny to think that Mr. Drummond from "Diff'rent Strokes" would predict GM's bankruptcy...albeit about 35 years ahead of time!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited November 2013
    "Earlier this month, according to AAA Mid-Atlantic, the station sold the first sub-$3 gallon of gas in the District in five years.

    AAA spokesman John B. Townsend II said the new station’s prices have consistently been 30 cents below the average for regular gas in the District, where prices are generally at least 5 percent higher than in Maryland and Virginia.

    A gallon of Costco’s premium gas is cheaper than the average gallon of regular gas sold in the District, Townsend said: “That is amazing.”

    The guy with the gas distribution "monopoly" in DC is naturally crying foul.

    Costco-linked gas cheap but controversial (washingtonpost.com)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Are those Blue laws from years gone by? Would they rather someone buys booze, takes a hit and drives across town to get gas. Most of those laws make no sense. Must be politically motivated by special interest.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    A monopoly? Nothing wrong with that, it's just a product of free markets, capitalism, other fairytales. I am sure he built his business himself, and deserves the spoils earned from all of the hard work he's invested. A real Horatio Alger, no doubt.

    I bought Costco gas on my trip, but I don't here - the stations are zoos, people drive like recipients of botched lobotomies to begin with,and get worse when queuing up.

    Gasoline has collapsed way below $4 even in this high tax state, but diesel is still usually within 20 cents of it.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    Hey, I know that Costco! I drive by it every time I go into DC. It's about as far out as you can be and still be in DC. Throw a cigarette butt out the back door, and you're practically over the Maryland line, into Fort Lincoln Cemetery.

    Interesting, about those laws that gas stations can't sell booze. In Maryland they can, although in my county, you can't sell hard liquor on Sundays, only beer and wine. So, most of the liquor stores close up shop, and I think our local gas station halts sales of all booze, for whatever reason.

    In DC, there's practically a liquor store on every corner, or at least a corner store that sells booze. So not letting the gas stations sell booze isn't doing a thing to stop drunk driving. Never has, never will. It's all political maneuvering, under the auspices of a greater good.

    And, in that vein, to save on time and fuel, I usually combine my bi-weekly beer run with a fill-up. I leave the county to do so, as gas is usually bit cheaper up in Anne Arundel, and there's a station about a quarter mile from the discount liquor store. Of course, I'm not buying it and then drinking it on the way back!!

    BTW, "bi-" does mean "every other", right? As in, "every other week", rather than "twice per week?". 'Cuz that's what I meant...every other week. Don't want to portray myself as a lush, now! :)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The largest floating vessel in the world has taken to the water for the first time in South Korea.

    At a length of 1,601 feet, the Prelude, which is owned by Shell, is 150 feet longer than the Empire State Building is high.

    It is a floating liquefied natural gas facility which will allow Shell to produce natural gas at sea and then liquify it by chilling it to -260 degrees F so it can be transported around the world.

    The Prelude is expected to produce 3.6 million tonnes of liquefied natural gas per year and its storage tanks have a capacity equivalent to approximately 175 Olympic swimming pools.

    The facility will be connected to wells on the seabed by a series of pipes to extract gas from under the ocean.

    The Prelude is expected to launch in 2017 and will then operate in a remote part of Western Australia for the next 25 years, however Shell hopes that it will help to unlock vital energy resources around the world.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/transport/10496977/Worlds-larges- t-ship-bigger-than-Empire-State-Building-launches.html
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    U.S. drivers return to the road as fuel prices fall (Yahoo)

    Can't say the same about air fares.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I would say most of the gas is wasted cruising around the Wally World parking lots looking for an empty space. We did not shop on Black Friday, Saturday or Sunday. We stayed off the road on Cyber Monday. We needed to get some groceries on Terrible Tuesday. It is obvious everyone is unemployed. They are on the roads and shopping malls. Thankfully we only have 9% unemployment. We would not be able to get out of our driveway if anymore people were on the roads.
  • jae5jae5 Member Posts: 1,206
    I wonder where this writer got this analysis from as the opposite has been happening here. Prices around here aren't the lowest in 3 years, prices haven't fallen but have risen...

    One of my many questions is, with the increase in buying more fuel-efficient vehicles, driving less / shorter distances, using less fuel and so forth, when are oil/gas companies are going to use the "well, we have to increase prices b/c no one is buying enough" excuse to raise prices more. I mean, they've used every other excuse for high prices and such...
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2013
    We did not shop on Black Friday, Saturday or Sunday.

    The local gym ran a BF special so we walked down and signed up.

    Jae5, maybe the Energy Information Administration needs to double-check with AAA or GasBuddy.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I agree with you. November 2010 I paid $2.81 for RUG at Costco. Last week two days before Thanksgiving at the same Costco I paid $3.45. Furthermore on 11/20/09 I paid $2.69 at Costco and on 11/21/08 the price was $1.95. So Yahoo is full of you know what. Gas is more than double what I paid on 12/10/08 when RUG dropped to $1.57&9/10ths. These are all at the same Costco store.

    Not sure what Yahoo is trying to spin, but they do not have their facts straight.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    And in late summer 08, say 5 years and 3 months ago, it was about $1/gallon more than now. Today's price is not much higher than a 2006 peak either.

    Interesting to watch the delta between gas vs diesel - gas has fallen quite a bit, while at one local station, diesel has been 3.99 for what seems like maybe 4 months now.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Diesel has been $3.99 forever here. RUG has been hanging around $3.39 for a few weeks now.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Diesel has been high because you and I bought diesel vehicles. Don't forget summer of 08 oil hit $150 barrel. It has not been close to that price since. That was purely market manipulation by guys like Soros that made about $2 billion shorting oil, after enticing the market high.

    May of 2006 we hit $3.31. Stayed mostly in the mid $2s. May of 07 we hit $3.29. July of 2008 was the peak here at $4.25. I filled once at Shell in June 08 and paid $4.59. Within 5 months it was below 2 bucks. Then in January 09 it headed back over $2 and has not been below since.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I think diesel is high because of all the demand overseas that allows it to be exported out of our refineries. I believe it also shares some similarities to heating oil and jet fuel in the refining process.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    I think that might be part of it. There's still a slight mpg vs price advantage for diesel vs PUG for vehicles that require it (being a foolish cheapskate and running RUG in a new MB doesn't count), but it's certainly less than 9 months ago. Some of the self-titled capitalists who managed that run up should have been strung up on some kind of economic terrorism laws, but god forbid anyone is held accountable for financial crimes, some entitled middle agers don't like the thought.

    From what I can see in the gasbuddy national historic charts, a peak in 06 was only maybe 25-30 cents less than now. Many things have risen a lot more than that, since. But yeah, since 2010 or so, it's been a steady climb.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    That and domestic demand from trucks, now that railroad lines have been dismantled in many places - no lobbying behind it, I'm sure.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    edited December 2013
    I think it's an urban legend that a few big speculators can influence the oil market to nearly the extent that you described, although it plays very well as a conspiracy theory. The oil market is too vast for that. OPEC can do it for a period because they have sufficient control over supplies, but not a few big speculators, savvy as they may be.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    There is no good explanation for oil going to $150 per barrel. OPEC was not behind it. I think you underestimate the power of the media to work folks up into a buying and selling frenzy. Certain insiders are aware and participate accordingly. How else do you explain Soros making billions shorting oil? He almost bankrupted the Bank of England in 1992 if memory serves. I think it was called Black Wednesday.

    George Soros, the most high profile of the currency market investors, made over 1 billion GBP profit by short selling sterling.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I think you may be discounting the impact from derivatives. Basically these have turned things like oil into a carnival game. You can make outsized bets on oil prices and not lose any more than what you bet. Oil prices were much more stable in the old days when you actually had to take physical delivery, or sell the holdings in a panic, when the option term expired. I think that less investor risk has translated into more volatile consumer pricing.
  • jae5jae5 Member Posts: 1,206
    Yes, it's kind of ridiculous. I've been tracking my fuel purchases for many years and the prices, though it has peaks and valleys, has had more and more peaks than anything.

    There just seems to be major disconnects with these stories and what really happens. It's as if they see one price under a certain point then run with it.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Berri, you have pegged it exactly. The administration promised to correct that situation so we would not have any more 2008 run-ups on oil. Not sure what has been done. I don't think the price will come down much from where it is currently as the dollar is diluted with QE. The low price of WTI is keeping our gas prices in check. OPEC basket is at $108, about $11 over WTI.
  • jae5jae5 Member Posts: 1,206
    I think you guys all make good points concerning the petrol prices. I think there was major manipulation during that time period of $147 oil, from not on speculation but also media. I remember watching Faux "News" and every so-called expert were ratcheting up where they knew oil was going. Then the talking head would sensationalize it, even adding to it..."well, I can see oil going to $110, $115, maybe even $120 a barrel...OMG, $120 a barrel?!?!? And it just kept going on and on. Add in the shorting and bingo.

    I just think when things were, in a sense, deregulated and you no longer had to take delivery of the commodity the reigns were off and it was off to the races. Add in the constant civil unrest reports, which there was always this unrest and it didn't cause huge price jumps before, and the prices went even higher.

    I also remember going into fuel stations where instead of crap-TV being on, they were tuned into MSNBC, CNBC, Faux or Bloomberg, watching the ticker for oil & gas prices. It was not uncommon to have a station increase their prices once or twice in a day during this period.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    These video clips are a good reason to stay inside during the current mess. Just talked to my Daughter in Law. They are on Interstate 64 from the Airport in St Louis to Indiana, averaging about 25 MPH. They said they have never seen so my trucks and cars in the ditch. And they were both born and raised in Alaska. Pretty bad across the Midwest.

    http://www.youtube.com/embed/xKy2lLNQYrI?rel=0&iv_load_policy=3&showinfo=0
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2013
    Last week I fell hard on an icy spot and was wishing I was wearing my snowboarding helmet. My wife and I were holding hands and I drug her down with me.

    And this was on the beach!

    So far I've shoveled about 8 or 9 inches today. Bracing. :)

    The WSJ reports that the US Gulf Coast refineries are awash in crude and "a barrel of Louisiana crude fetched $9.46 less than a barrel of comparable-quality crude in England" mid-week.

    "Some industry officials argue that U.S. light crude will simply displace more "heavy" imported oil. But many Gulf Coast refineries are set up to turn the more viscous crude into diesel fuel, and converting their facilities to process additional light oil wouldn't be easy." (WSJ - registration link)

    But, only gasoline prices seem to be going down, not diesel.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Personally, I'm very nervous of what happens when the Federal Reserve induced bubbles begin to burst. Their track record is not good. It will hit investments, commodities, currencies... I think they have gone too far and will have trouble smoothly changing course. I also don't think they should be inflating and propping up markets or choosing winners and losers (e.g. wealthy investors are making out, while middle class savers and retirees are getting screwed).
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,756
    Fun! I love this stuff. In my post-Alaskan experience with snow storms in the lower 48, there's no reason to have much respect for the winter driving abilities of those Americans less seasoned by winter. :P
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Just talked to my son. They made it home from St Louis. He said much of the trip was a white out like in Prudhoe. No collisions. Just a lot of vehicles in the ditches. Kind of like Anchorage during the first couple snowfalls of the winter. Difference most of the lower 48 states do not allow studded tires for the ice.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2013
    Can't find the post now but someone recently linked to a list of states that allowed studded tires, and it was a much longer list than I would have guessed.

    Here's a list of states that allow them in one form or another: tirebuyer.com

    "Enjoyed" a brisk walk down to a fish fry place tonight - around 8°, blowing and snowing. We saved a half buck on gas walking but the thermostat got cranked up to 72 when we got back home. :)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Interesting. I just remember living in MN back in the 1970s when they outlawed studded tires. I am not a fan. I would rather drive sensibly on ice. Then I had a LOT of experience with 8 months of ice a year in the Arctic without using studded tires.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    I remember, as a kid in snowy eastern WA back in the 80s ice age, my mother would leave chains on her car for what seemed like eons (in 8 year old terms, probably a week).
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,756
    Yeah, not a fan of studs either. They are absolutely fantastic for a very short period of time, then they are just noisy and, often, the tires aren't as good as studless winter tires because they rely too heavily on the studs. Winter tire technology has come a long, long way since the 1970s, though. I really don't think studs are necessary any longer.

    Fuel is still holding at ~$3.60 a gallon here, which is good since I just had to fill up my plow truck this morning. I put in 16 gallons, and I think I drove it about 10 miles since the last fill. LOL :sick:

    Unbelievable weather here, though. I think most of the rest of the continent is probably colder than us. We're sitting at an astounding 0C/32F right now! We even have snowman snow!
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,756

    I must confess that I'm a little afraid of what our fuel prices in interior Alaska will be in a few months after the local refinery shuts down. I expect a solid $1 spike that will not go away. Time will tell.

    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2014

    Funny how the state loaned all that money to build a big tank farm at Port MacKenzie so that more Outside gas can be barged up and stored close to Anchorage. $14 million bucks. Plus the airlines expanded their jet fuel capacity down there too with lots of new tank capacity.

    Sounds like the environmental cleanup is going to be expensive when they close the refinery too.

  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,756

    Yeah, but honestly, that whole area is so plagued by environmental disasters over the last 80 years, I don't know why they'd even bother. Time heals all wounds, right?!

    Much of the SC jet fuel came from this refinery, so I'm not sure what the picture in Alaska is going to look like soon.

    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450

    Cheaper than last year at this time. On 2/21/13 I paid $4.09 at Costco. Yesterday it was $3.59.

  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,756

    @gagrice said:
    Cheaper than last year at this time. On 2/21/13 I paid $4.09 at Costco. Yesterday it was $3.59.

    There is that! I paid $3.569 this morning at the local Fred Meyer (Kroger). And, by $1 more, I'm talking about the new normal here likely being around $4.50, versus the $5.00+ it would be if I made that same statement a year ago!

    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450

    Would past policies work to get the price of oil down where it belongs?

    Petroleum, which had zoomed to $40 a barrel by 1980, went down to the teens. It barely lifted its head up from this low level until well into the 2000s. Same thing with gasoline—down permanently by a big factor. And somehow all the “supply” crises also disappeared for good. This was so even though the world’s major economy was embarking on one of its most remarkable modern runs of multi-decade growth.

    Sound too good to be true? It isn’t, because this is exactly what happened in the face of a policy revolution that changed the terms of an energy crisis of the same character we face today.

    The reason the supply-side policy mix that Reagan pursued was so successful in killing off the energy crisis of the 1970s is as follows. Oil—like all widely desirable commodities limited in supply by geology—has an economic function, as we all know, namely to power a good part of the world. But because of its geological limitation, it also has what you might call a para-economic function, which is to serve as a place to hide when the major currency producers (namely the United States) do not take special care to maintain the value of their currency.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/briandomitrovic/2012/04/10/want-gasoline-prices-to-decline-do-as-ronald-reagan-did/

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited February 2014

    $40 oil in 1980 is equal to $121 oil today. I remember it crashing to $10 and killing Alaska oil field jobs with the it, BIG TIME. I got a big pay cut, and we laid off half the crew.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    edited March 2014

    I see Stalputin's sabre-rattling is being blamed for a bad day on the stock market - I wonder if it could be used as an excuse for oil/gas prices to rise?

  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 240,076

    @fintail said:
    I see Stalputin's sabre-rattling is being blamed for a bad day on the stock market - I wonder if it could be used as an excuse for oil/gas prices to rise?

    Great - now that you've mentioned it expect to see a dime increase in gas prices by the end of the week.

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  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450

    Filled up yesterday at Chevron. Diesel $3.99, PUG $4.09 and RUG $3.89. Costco selling RUG at $3.79 which is 20 cents less than last year this time.

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652

    I think my last fill up was around $3.659, for 89 in my Ram. Bill came out to around $65-70. Once upon a time I would have cringed at that. But, I drive so little, that I'm only seeing that maybe once every two weeks.

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454

    $3.69 is what it bumped up to here. Naturally the low fuel light in the van came on the same day I noticed the dime increase. Have to check my log, but it's probably been a couple of months since I last filled it, since we don't drive it much in the winter.

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited March 2014

    I think the Chinese have figured out the best way to beat the high price of gas. Notice the masks to protect against those nasty gas burning vehicles.

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450

    Maybe innovation will make gas vehicles less polluting and better mileage.

    http://pixelbark.com/13045/how-the-duke-engines-increases-the-efficiency-of-the-internal-combustion-engine

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