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Good Styling

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Comments

  • writerwriter Member Posts: 121
    I have not seen a new Mazda 3 on the road yet. Or if I did, I was too busy to notice it. The pictures make the styling look awkward. It looks like they are taking the styling cues from
    the last previous model and trying to mix in a new direction. I am hoping that when I see it live it will look better. That is quite possible lately. As I have said, the Cruze looks better in the real world than the first pictures I saw, and so does the Sonic.

    About the Spark. It is hard to believe it has been around for over a year. I have not seen many at all. Maybe it was released later in Canada? That would have been unusual since Canada has always bought more of the smaller cars. My comments about smaller cars looking better with the same styling cues fits this situation. Except for the grille/headlights, the Spark does have some Sonic styling, and yes, it does look better overall.

    As for the swept back headlights. Oddly, the feel "outdated". The old Celica looked good. The original Focus, well, it always looked like a watermelon to me. I never really liked the look. I accepted it. It was another "if you gave one to me I'd drive it" car. The Nissan G35/GTR styles look good, and I still consider the original G35 a new "classic". But maybe not so new now? Yeah, the headlight idea sort of strikes me as, old.

    The odd thing about "micro" cars is that the most common I see in Toronto are the Smart and the upper price versions of the Fiat 500. It is an inverted price response. There are some old Yaris coupes around, but I think the newer ones are starting to get big aren't they?

    I forgot to mention that the Sonic long trunk version looks better than the hatchback. In Toronto, I mainly see the hatchbacks.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2013
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,363
    edited December 2013

    There's one styling "trick" that never seems to work but it's back and just as dopey as ever>

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    Looks like something glued on as an afterthought. I know what they are trying to do. They are trying to 'bulk it up" so that you think you're getting a tough GMC truck.

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,669

    That GMC almost had me doing a 'spit take' the first time I saw it. I don't gag now, but just because I'm used to it, I guess ;)

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072

    Perhaps the design genius who penned the 00s Colorado has retained employment.

    @andys120 said:
    There's one styling "trick" that never seems to work but it's back and just as dopey as ever>

    ![]

  • writerwriter Member Posts: 121
    edited December 2013

    @andys120 said:

    ...

    "Memorandum

    GM Art Dept.

    to Staff

    Re: Terrain

    The Boss says photoshop the wheels and tires."

  • writerwriter Member Posts: 121

    I'm still wrapping my head around this one. Does it hold 2 cups or is that last move "just because they could?"

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2013

    We overran the limits of the last software by several years (some would say a decade - it was not being supported for the last few years) and the servers were failing more and more frequently because of the software. Synching couldn't keep up, among other things. It was switch horses or wind up on the side of the Chilkoot Trail with all the other debris.

  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,363

    I wonder if Lamborghini styling isn't stuck in a rut. You tell me>

    "Old" Gallardo-

    New Huracan>

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    edited January 2014

    Slow evolution?

    The new one has ever-trendy/cliched leering eyes, so the aging businessmen and devilspawn of blood money investor visa tycoons who buy these things new can pretend to be intimidating and aggressive.

    @andys120 said:
    I wonder if Lamborghini styling isn't stuck in a rut. You tell me>

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,026
    edited January 2014

    I'm a product of my age (56 this coming June), but I think this car is nearly (nearly) timeless in styling. I can't think of a more-desirable sedan for me. Near-perfect packaging, nice interior, good handling and performance for its day with a 350 and F41 suspension package, and Chevrolet-priced. Anything else domestic the same year seems almost ancient in comparison, IMHO:

    http://www.lov2xlr8.no/brochures/chevy/78cap_2.html

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    it's not bad at all---it's a "formal look", basically a 3-box with a nice "taper" front and rear, and clean side panels, and wheels that generously fill the well openings. My only quibble is that the B & C pillars are too thick and the door handles look glued on and cheesy. No doubt this is due to GM platform sharing and parts-bin sharing.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    edited January 2014

    Although I was zero years old when those debuted and have little memory of them as brand new cars. I can agree. A very clean design, far ahead of the competition design-wise. The fact that the basic shape lasted so long speaks more to its soundness than to GM cheapness, I think. The sport coupes with the "glass house" rear window are cool in a way, too.

    On that note, on the foreign front, I think the MB W126 and C126 definitely fit the "timeless" designation, and are one of the best MBs in the history of the company. Overbuilt and over-engineered, sturdy, available in a zillion configurations, and they still look good today. Hard to imagine they are as old as they are.

    Entered production late 1979:

    Entered production late 1981:

    @uplanderguy said:
    I'm a product of my age (56 this coming June), but I think this car is nearly (nearly) timeless in styling.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    once Mercedes flattened out their grillwork and put some large body molding under the doors, to break up the broadside nature of the cars and reduce side, as well as front, profiles, they definitely started to look better. One might call them 'handsome" rather than "pretty", and precious few 1979 cars look as good to the modern eye.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072

    The lower moldings certainly help break it up. MB used that trick for many years. Not pretty cars, but definitely handsome, and they aged pretty well. W126 sedan is 35 years old this year, crazy. And fintails are 55 years old!

    @MrShift@Edmunds said:
    once Mercedes flattened out their grillwork and put some large body moldin

  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165

    I think the trick to good styling may actually be classic simplicity, but that is much easier said than done. Postwar, I think some of the Italian designers were particularly good at that unless they got carried away with adding bric a brac onto the body - think some of the 50/60's Ferrari's and Alpha's, although the British designed XKE is hard to top. As for Americans, Virgil Exner seemed to design a timeless, classically good looking vehicle in the 57 Forward look cars, particularly the Chrysler 300 that year. But the hard part is that in this country at least, once a design has been out a few years buyers often tire of it. They don't seem to recognize that their vehicle had classic lines until maybe 7 or 8 years after they traded it and look back. Chrysler was always under financial crisis, so Exner was pressured to keep changing the state of the art - but you really can't do that very often and some odd designs resulted. I think Bill Mitchell at GM was one of the best at this. Then there were guys you have to admire like Teague and Bourke that put out some remarkable styling on the "cheap" such as the Studebaker Hawk, AMC Javelin/AMX or the early Jeep SUV's.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    Exner's designs might be "classic period" but they are certainly not "timeless". They are firmly riveted in 50s dateline and type--not that that is a bad thing, but they stick out like a sore thumb to the modern eye's gaze....unlike a classic 80s Benz, you don't ask "what year is that '57 Dodge?" You pretty much know---oh, the tailfin craze.

  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165

    I guess it boils down to how you define classic. I think you feel it must be timeless in that you can't readily tell it's year. There are postwar cars that fit that description like the XKE. However, I think timeless can also be reflected in a vehicle that is in constant demand over time. A 57 Chrysler 300 commands top dollar here and overseas. It may reflect and be identifiable as the mid 50's, but I think your narrower interpretation would kind of result in a bias toward either prewar vehicles, or postwar vehicles that had little styling change for a number of years. Most postwar cars can usually be tied to a narrow production years range.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    Yeah, that's what I meant---postwar vehicles with very little styling changes--because they didn't need to. "Timeless" does seem to imply "outside of time", and tail fins the size of billboards are rather firmly rooted into just a few years. Same, say, with those "wedge cars' from the 80s (Aston Martin, Subaru, TR7, etc). They are now "date-stamped" forever.

    If people pay big bucks for a '57 Chrysler 300, it's related to their rarity and their outrageousness--they only made 1,918 of those coupes, and perhaps 200 still exist, so even if you want one, you can't just go buy one in a flash. You have to hunt, and you won't see another most likely at the local car show.

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454

    The new Jeep Cherokee has been garnering lots of styling comments, mostly negative, at least concerning the front end. Dan Neil at the Wall St. Journal says "conventional automobile grilles—and the recognizable geometries of the brands behind them, their "down the road graphics"—are destined to become functionally obsolete."

    There's a lot of dead air between the engine and the hood in the Cherokee, but it has the required homage to the brand.

  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,363

    Look Alikes>

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    Ferrari wins that one.

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454

    But the Vette gets better mileage. :D

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    I hope all those scoops and ducts DO something.

  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,363
    edited February 2014

    @MrShift@Edmunds said:
    Ferrari wins that one.

    I vehemently disagree, the Vette might be a bit outre but there is a certain drama to it's shape. The new California is another so-so styling from a company that once made some of the prettiest cars around.

    At least it's an improvement over the California 2.0 v.1.>

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    I like the rear end treatment of the Ferrari better--otherwise it's a toss-up.

  • writerwriter Member Posts: 121

    Apparently Korean singer-actress "IU" is driven around in a special car. I have never seen anything quite like it. Can anyone tell me what this thing is?

    "140529 아이유(IU) 소극장 콘서트 "딱 한발짝 그 만큼 더" 퇴근길"

    PS: I do not know what the title says. I do not read, write, speak or understand Korean.

  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,363

    @writer said:
    Apparently Korean singer-actress "IU" is driven around in a special car. I have never seen anything quite like it. Can anyone tell me what this thing is?

    "140529 아이유(IU) 소극장 콘서트 "딱 한발짝 그 만큼 더" 퇴근길"

    PS: I do not know what the title says. I do not read, write, speak or understand Korean.

    It sure looks like a modified late model Kia Sedona to me

    Kia Sedona(US market version>

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,638
    edited June 2014

    I wasn't all the crazy about the Corvette, until I saw one up close in person at the GM show in Carlisle PA yesterday. Still not my thing, but I could understand its appeal. I can actually see a bit of the '53 heritage in its front-end treatment.

    The Ferrari looks kinda like a chick car in comparison. And that 2.0 V1 edition looks like an old Hyundai Tiburon that someone tried to do a kit car conversion on. At least use a Fiero! :p

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072

    The van in the video is definitely a custom Kia Sedona or Hyundai Entourage (those are the US names, I don't know if they are sold under different names at home).

    I think the new Corvette is pretty cool, and maybe the most significant redesign since 68, if not 63. It's really exotic, and looks a lot more expensive than it is.

  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165

    Fin, I'm afraid I find the Sedona or Entourage as antonyms to the phrase good styling. The new Hyunkia van may change that however.

  • writerwriter Member Posts: 121
    edited June 2014

    Ok. I think the angle of the shot was throwing me off. I was imagining a vehicle about the proportions of a Honda Crosstour or Toyota whatever-its-called. I think it was taken by a phone held high. Some of the people around seemed "tall" compared to minivan height. But a high curb could cause that effect.

    As for styling, actually, relative to minivan-ness, I find it ok. The only FWD minivan I have driven was my Pontiac Montana, so I cannot comment about whether I would actually like having one, but from a styling point of view I think it is fine. Actually, I think I prefer it over the new/current Honda with its "Z-line" windows.

  • writerwriter Member Posts: 121

    About the Corvette and Ferrari. Actually, if I think about it, I prefer the last version Hyundai Tiberon as a "Ferrari-type" style. If you changed the bumper, grill, headlights combination to something a bit more Ferrari-ish, it would out-Ferrari the model pictured above. But then again, I always felt that Ferrari was more than just the styling, so. . . .

  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165

    You're lucky you drove the Pontiac minivan. Had you sat in the backseat for over an hour or two your back might be killing you. There is a reason GM (and Ford) got knocked out of the minivan business.

  • writerwriter Member Posts: 121
    Ah. Now I understand. I had forgotten that I changed e-mail addresses years ago, but I did not update this account. For now I have 2 accounts, which means I will have to make a decision. Sorry, but not tonight. I am exhausted.

    Anyway, to keep on topic, one thing I wanted to say is that the latest Honda Civic was actually a bit disappointing for me. I do not hate it. It is still quite good, but it lacks something that previous efforts had. I know that I find the tail light treatment awkward. Maybe I will get used to it. But there is probably more that I do not like. Certainly, if someone gave me a Civic I would be happy to drive it, but it is just not as good as previous efforts.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,363
    edited April 2016
    The "fastback" look featuring a sloping rear window has become quite popular among mid-sized sedans for example, the Kia Optima:



    and the Ford Fusion:



    IMO it's a nice look, and obviously poular but there's one thing that bothers me about it.... fastback rooflines are perfect for hatchbacks, have been ever since Jaguar pioneered the rear hatch in 1960>



    Now I'll agree that there have been some unfortunate and awkward looking hatchback sedans in the past but the world market version of the Fusion, the Ford Mondeo, looks identical to the four door Fusion>

    Look carefully and you'll see the shutline for the rear hatch>



    ...and boy, is it practical>



    I know, I know... Americans just don't like hatchbacks, except the boxy SUVS and crossovers that have become the dominant automotive design on our roads.

    Personally, I'd a lot rather have this....>



    ...than a boxy trucklet.



    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,669
    Yep, Audi A7 is another good looking one. Unlike the BMW versions. But I do miss regular 4-door rooflines, with decent rear headroom.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    Here's the reason for the 6 window fad:

    image

    To the masses, Audi is very sophisticated, and the design field has a lot of sycophants.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Audi does seem to lead a lot of vehicle design recently. Postwar, I think GM popularized it in a much smaller window dimension than prewar, and the success of the 55 Chevy sedan brought it to Ford and Chrysler in 57. I thought GM brought it back very tastefully in the 60's on their upper level sedans.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    Yep, 6 window goes way back, but it seems to have fallen from style for awhile. The long arc roofline of Audi bought it back, and now many kind of ape it - Hyunkia hiring Schreyer really brought it to them. And of course now with the somewhat cliched upkick at the C-pillar in an attempt at character.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,363
    Pickup trucks are tough assignments for stylists because they use very simple three-box forms. They all look identical from behind and nearly so from the sides so the stylists have only the grille and headlights to work with.

    Big pickups now all use huge chromed grilles and simple headlights to ape the look of a big-rig Semi tractor. Mid size and smaller trucks are generally less macho looking but there's a new entry coming which IMHO might be the best looking pick-em-up since the old Chevy 3100 of the 40s/50s.

    2017 Honda Ridgeline>


    What a surprise from Honda styling which hasn't had a really good design in this century and whose first entry into light trucks had no finesse whatsoever! It looked as if they'd slapped a Pilot grille onto the front box and simply left the rest alone until someone decided to add the ugly buttresses behind the cab. That design also committed the cardinal styling sin of squaring the fender bottoms.

    2012 Honda Ridgeline>



    Congratulations Honda styling, it's good to have you back! Now about the next generation of Accords, can we put the A-Team on it?

    DISCLAIMER: Styling is of course a matter of opinion. The above comments reflect my opinions and I beg your pardon if I have insulted any vehicles you own or aspire to. If you agree or disagree I hope you'll say so.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    edited May 2016
    Definitely better looking than the original - what always caught my eye as odd on the first one was the angled top of the bed, and how it meets with the cab. The new one is refined looking in a way, too. We'll see how it does, as faux machismo sells a lot of trucks.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Well, that Ridgeline has some dirt on it B)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I don't think styling is 100% a matter of opinion---there are some basic rules that shouldn't be violated I think, like huge overhangs, an unusable back seat, very bad visibility--that sort of thing.

    I think pickups should reflect "pickup-edness". They should look purposeful, not fussy.

    Vehicles should look like what they do.

  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,363

    I don't think styling is 100% a matter of opinion---there are some basic rules that shouldn't be violated I think, like huge overhangs, an unusable back seat, very bad visibility--that sort of thing.

    I think pickups should reflect "pickup-edness". They should look purposeful, not fussy.

    Vehicles should look like what they do.

    Oh I agree, there are certain basic rules, one is do not put a squared fender over round wheels. I can't think of a single car or truck that looks good on.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    An interesting discussion might be good styling on a pickup. IMO they were better before they got glitzy and faux macho. 60s Fords are especially nice to my eyes. 70s era trucks also aren't bad.
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