Stories from the Sales Frontlines

graphicguy · December 2013

Thanks Mike. I'm going out next week..I'll give the E350 a look.

graphicguy · December 2013

Mike...just curious, where are coming up with the $5K E350 incentives? I can't find them.

abacomike · December 2013

@graphicguy...where are you coming up with the $5000 incentives - I can't find them...

Mercedes dealers have $5000 coupons on E350's, $3000 on CLS's, $1000 on CLA's, etc. These are unpublished incentives given directly to the dealer, not the customer. You may not want to wait too long since I don't know if these incentives are limited. They have been available since Nov. 1st.

I used my USAA certificate instead of the incentive since I got $3500 instead of $3000 the dealer has. I couldn't combine the two.

Besides, it's going to take you some time to negotiate a dead invoice price less $5000 - a dealer isn't going to drop his pants without a fight - so you may have to hit 2 or 3 dealerships before you find one ready, willing and able to do so.

GG, best chance is at the bigger dealerships who have end of year quotas or numbers to hit. These incentives to dealers came about because Mercedes is out to take over the lead for the highest volume luxury import vehicle manufacturer from BMW. From what I understand, Mercedes has, in fact, surpassed BMW in US sales for the year.

stickguy · December 2013

I was also surprised that on Saturday morning, in crappy weather (up in NY), the Volvo/Mazda dealer was packed. There were multiple people waiting for salemen on the Volvo side.

VW dealer in the afternoon was dead though.

driver100 · December 2013

@graphicguy said:

We'll see what Audi says next week

GG, great imressions of the car you drove. I especially agree with your impressions of the 528, but a 535 with M Package is a whole different animal.

It is too bad you had so many problems with the S4 and so you will be negative on the Audi. I say that because I love driving my wife's 2013 A4. I am so glad we ended up with the Audi over the BMW 3 Series. It is a manual and the handling and gear shifting make it the nicest handling/most fun I have had driving a car. Gear changes are smooth and the little 4 can really move. The steering and handling are also the best I have experienced. She had it in for service and they installed a new program to get the Bluetooth working.

Just a far out suggestion, but, they may make you a better deal if you took an A4. You could drive it - lease it may be better - and see how it goes. Or, I guess you have to try a Lexus/Infinity /Accura . Keep us updated.

tjc78 · December 2013

In case the next few days get away from me, here is an early Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to everyone. Enjoy!

graphicguy · December 2013

@abacomike said:
GG, best chance is at the bigger dealerships who have end of year quotas or numbers to hit. These incentives to dealers came about because Mercedes is out to take over the lead for the highest volume luxury import vehicle manufacturer from BMW. From what I understand, Mercedes has, in fact, surpassed BMW in US sales for the year.

Well.....got word this a.m. Audi is buying back the S4. A shame really. It's a very nice car. The dealership wanted their "loaner" car back immediately upon hearing this judgement. I asked them if I could keep it though Chirstmas, and they refused my request. They wanted it back TODAY! So, I made plans to borrow a car (a Nissan Sentra from my previous "date") and have her pick me up at the dealerhip this a.m.

Car shopping I went.

Mike....thanks! Went to the local Benz dealer. At first, the salesperson feigned ignorance about the "dealer certificates". I didn't want to argue and just asked if his store had them available.

I was getting ready to leave and he asked me to stay while he asked his manager. According to the certificates this sales person had in his cubical, he'd been at this dealership for awhile. So, I figured if there were certificates to be had, he'd know about them.

It took about 10 minutes, and just as I had my hand on their front door, he came back and said they did have certificates available. So, in the course of 10 minutes, he went from "i don't know what you're talking about" to "yes, we have some".

In fairness, I stopped in without an appointment. But, he did take me for a test drive, albeit a very brief one. It was in an E350 sport 4matic. Very nice car. First impression is "very solid". I'm not sure it's the car meant for me, though. Maybe if I had a longer test drive it might be different.

I thanked him for his time as he started to put the press on to buy since "end of year deals can be had".

Drove a Volvo S60 T5 (Volvo dealership is across the street from the Benz dealership). Again, nice car...actually better than I expected. Nothing about it really grabbed me, though.

I think a lot of this is a result of the last few cars I've owned, given they're all on the "sporty" side of lux-sports cars. I'm test driving those who emphasize lux over sports.

Not sure where I'm going from here. I'll give my local Acura dealer a call and see what they have available. I don't want to be in a hurry. But, right now, the BMW X1 35ix seems to be the one I'm most interested in (and the least expensive of any car I'm looking at).

I might have considered an A6 if the Audi dealer wasn't so abrupt in wanting their loaner back.

jayrider · December 2013

Honda is giving dealers 3k for every car they sell above yearly target sales numbers. Good til the end of the year. You might have to work to get into that money but worth a shot if you want aHonda.

jayrider · December 2013

Actually its for sales above December 2012 totals. Posted on the Wall Street Journal web site. Just google Honda $3000 dealer cash.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2013

@graphicguy said:
But, right now, the BMW X1 35ix seems to be the one I'm most interested in (and the least expensive of any car I'm looking at).

Doesn't an optioned-up X1 35ix bust through $50K?

abacomike · December 2013

TACTICS JUST NEVER SEEM TO CHANGE!

My cousin called me last night and asked me if I would help him buy a new car. He lives up in Melbourne, FL, but since the dealerships up there are rather small with very little competition, he wanted to fly down here and drive home with his new car.

I met him at Ft. Lauderdale/Hollywood International Airport early this morning. It's about a 30 min flight. He wanted to buy either a BMW 528i or a Mercedes E 350. His price range was $50,000 - $55,000.

We first stopped at the BMW dealership I used to work with back in the mid 2000's. He drove a 528i that MSRP'd for $57,750. It had the 4 cylinder turbo, and was nicely equipped. He did not like the 4 cylinder turbo - he said it was grossly underpowered. He then drove a 535i - MSRP was $65,450, but I think he fell in love with it - even though it was $10,000 over his budget (MSRP).

We then stopped into a Mercedes dealership just down the road so he could test drive one to see if he liked it. He drove an E 350 sport model, MSRP was $63,470. He liked the style and the interior, but I could see he was stuck on the BMW. That's why I did not take him to my dealer - if he had liked the E 350 , we would have been right around $54,000+++. Just didn't want to waste my dealership's time - which turned out to be wise.

We then drove to the BMW dealership nearer to where I live. The place was jammed - but we finally got a salesman while we were looking at new 535i's on the new car lot.

The car he picked out MSRP'd for just about the same as the first BMW dealership we went to. Made an offer of $55,750 +++. The salesman actually laughed at us. "...you really think you can buy a 535i for that - are you serious?" I then asked to speak with the manager. He sat down, said he had one counter offer - take it or leave it! He put a 4 square on the table and pointed to his number - $61,500+++.

We stood up, thanked them, and walked out. We drove back out to the first dealership, made the same offer, and they countered at $56,250+++. It took 3 hours to get the car ready, complete the paperwork, and drive off with his new car. I talked him onto returning to the dealership near me because I wanted to rub the sales manager's nose in the sale contract.

We arrived there, went inside, got the sales manager, and asked if he could join us in front of the dealership. My cousin pulled out his paid contract, pointed to his new car, and said, "...how do you like them apples?" (Reminded me of the movie Good Will Hunting).

He turned to me and said if we weren't off his property in 2 minutes, he'd call security.

Don't ya just love when you can turn the tables on care sales managers who lie through ther teeth? I loved every minute of it.

My cousin left for home after we had a bite to eat. This was one of my more satisfying days!!!

ab348 · December 2013

@graphicguy - I have never driven the E350, but whenever I see one, I always stop and pause to admire it. Just an impressive-looking car to me. I like the coupe even better. I don't have that same sort of reaction to any of the smaller BMWs or any Japanese car, really. But obviously you need to buy what you like.

Can you link me to a post explaining the woes with the S4? I really like those and am surprised it needs to be bought back.

graphicguy · December 2013

@MrShift@Edmunds said:
Doesn't an optioned-up X1 35ix bust through $50K?

Shifty....I think you'd really have to tick every box on an X1 35ix to get it near $50K. The one I'm looking at has the "Ultimate Package". That pretty much has everything I need/want. My dealer gives me any incentives and sells to me for $250 over invoice. I'm good with that.

That puts me in the low $40s for one pretty loaded up.

Dealer phone calls are coming fast and furious today. I'm not in a hurry, though.

abacomike · December 2013

@graphicguy....Thanks, Mike....

Any time, gg. All it takes is knowledge - once you know what the salesman knows, you are one up on him - because now he knows he can't BS you on anything else.

As for the BMW X1x, that is going to be darn near what the Mercedes 4Matic would be. Just take your time - BMW also has some dealer incentive money - not quite as much as Mercedes, but they have room to negotiate.

nyccarguy · December 2013

@graphicguy

Sorry to hear about your S4. I'm glad Audi is buying the ca back from you. I'm really surprised that the dealer took their loaner back instantaneously. You'd think they'd want to turn lemons (no pun intended) into lemonade & tell you to keep the loaner for another couple of days while you consider this "knock out offer on a 2014 A6, A5, A4, Q5, Q5 diesel..." We want to keep you as a customer.

The X1 is a nice vehicle and is especially potent in 35i guise. When you do buy, be sure to register your "punch" on CCBA;). Keep us posted!

explorerx4 · December 2013

It's the Monday before Christmas, not too many people in the office, so a quiet day.
Had an appointment to look at a fluid leak in the '04 Escape.
It has been leaking oil for the last year and a half, but not a lot.
When I first brought it in to have it looked at, it was diagnosed as an engine front seal leak and was going to be about $900 to fix. It wasn't a big leak, so I declined to get it fixed at the time.
Fast backward to last month. Escape is due for the 5k maintenance we always do, oil change/tire rotation.
I told my daughter to bring it in for 'The Works' and call me about anything additional.
Dealers writes up 2 problems; oil leak ($250) and front axle seal leak ($425).
Told my kids to drive it back home.
Same dealer that looked at it originally quoted the $900, today told me no axle seal leak and fixed the oil leak for $300. YAY!
THEN, got an email from HR that company stock I bought is paying a huge dividend. YAY!
THEN, wife calls me, hit a pothole and blew out a tire on her 2013 Escape. 2013 AWD, so might need all 4, probably around $900. BOO!

Mr_Shiftright · December 2013

" He put a 4 square on the table and pointed to his number - $61,500+++." --- no wonder that salesman lost the deal. Are guys still using the foursquare? They are going to be left behind.

abacomike · December 2013

@MrShift....are you guys still using the four square?...

Honestly, I hadn't seen one in over 7 years - that was the first one I have seen since then. When I managed a dealership, I did away with them - not only very old school - but insulting to the salesman and the customer.

I would send the salesman out with an MSRP INVENTORY SHEET showing all options and pricing. Offers and counter offers all appeared on the itemized sheet - intended to show value for the money being exchanged.

Yep - he used a four square - unbelievable .

explorerx4 · December 2013

@abacomike said:
MrShift....are you guys still using the four square?...

Honestly, I hadn't seen one in over 7 years - that was the first one I have seen since then. When I managed a dealership, I did away with them - not only very old school - but insulting to the salesman and the customer.

I would send the salesman out with an MSRP INVENTORY SHEET showing all options and pricing. Offers and counter offers all appeared on the itemized sheet - intended to show value for the money being exchanged.

Yep - he used a four square - unbelievable .

When I bought my Fusion last February, the salesman broke out the four square, but I pretty much ignored it.
Funny thing is, I never saw one before I bought my 2011 Explorer.
I already know exactly the specifics of the vehicle I'm looking to buy before getting to the dealership.

abacomike · December 2013

@explorer4...I never saw one before I bought my 2011 Explorer...

Dealerships obviously still use them, but it depends upon the management. Old style management - old style techniques. Also, what the salesman uses to present the numbers depends on the kind of software they use and what that software generates.

We used a software program that pulled up the vehicle being considered by VIN number. It presented the model, the color, standard features and all options spelled out showing what was included in each option. It also pulled up MSRP.

The purpose of showing the customer all equipment and options was in case pricing could not be agreed upon - we would reduce the options the customer could live without - thus pricing got much closer to what the customer wanted to spend. We had 700 new cars out on the lots and could usually find a car on the same color but with one or two options less.

I always felt that if you were up front with the customer, a sale was easier to make.

But 4 squares should not be used in today's negotiations process - most customers come in knowing invoice, incentives, etc. My Mercedes dealer presents his first numbers on a similar sheet - but offers the customer the pricing Edmunds shows on their site as to what the average person is paying for that vehicle, as equipped, which is usually $2000 under MSRP, or more.

graphicguy · December 2013

@nyccarguy said:
graphicguy

Sorry to hear about your S4. I'm glad Audi is buying the ca back from you. I'm really surprised that the dealer took their loaner back instantaneously. You'd think they'd want to turn lemons (no pun intended) into lemonade & tell you to keep the loaner for another couple of days while you consider this "knock out offer on a 2014 A6, A5, A4, Q5, Q5 diesel..." We want to keep you as a customer.

The X1 is a nice vehicle and is especially potent in 35i guise. When you do buy, be sure to register your "punch" on CCBA;). Keep us posted!

NYC....you'd think the Audi dealership would have tried to put me in another car, too. But, they didn't even make a tepid attempt to do so.

Again, I have some wheels at my disposal. I'm not in a hurry!

NYC

graphicguy · December 2013

NYC....I'm still trying to get used to the new forum lay out. Seems most of my post was cut off.

What the above should have said was "Thanks, NYC! I was surprised the Audi dealer didn't try to put me into something else vs just demanding their loaner back and washing their hands. I probably would have given another one serious consideration, if they would have been willing to make it worth my while. But, they did not, and I wasn't about to offer to look at another one. Don't get me wrong, overall, the dealership was helpful...or as helpful as they could be given the situation. They really didn't fight me. They put me in loaners...and not budget loaners. They were all nice loaners. For the most part, they worked around my schedule. Maybe they thought I'd have no interest in another Audi (perhaps they were right). But, I would have at least listend to them."

So, before the forum reboot, I was debating the propriety of giving flowers on a first date. I didn't, per most everyone's suggestion. No movie, either....as per suggestion. We did go to a Christmas "Festival of Lights" show. And, then went to a restaurant a friend of mine owns. It's a rather upscale place, but the owner and his wife gave us a nice table and made sure everything was great. Afterwards, we went to hear a jazz combo. All-in-all, we had a wonderful time. And, we've been out 5-6 times since then (two weeks ago?). She even spent the money to take me to a Bengals game last Sunday (she knows nothing about football, but somehow came up with very good seats).

What does that have to do with my car saga? Well, given the Audi dealer wanted their loaner back, I had mentioned to her I was going to rent a car. She has a 13 year old Sentra as 2nd car she said I could use. That is now my chariot of record. I don't want to overspend her genrosity, though. So, while I do say I'm not in a hurry to buy something, as soon as I get the check from Audi (probably late this week), I will have to purchase something.

That's all I got.

Buon Natale e Felice Anno Nuovo to all of my Edmunds friends!

abacomike · December 2013

@graphicguy said:

Buon Natale e Felice Anno Nuovo to all of my Edmunds friends!

driver100 · December 2013

@graphicguy said:

given the Audi dealer wanted their loaner back, I had mentioned to her I was going to rent a car. She has a 13 year old Sentra as 2nd car she said I could use.

GG, a few things. I think you missed my post saying it may be worthwhile trying a regular A4.
We are back in Canada until Jan 3rd (so far lots of snow and power out for 18 hours...this is insane being here, when we could have been in Florida), and while my 535 is in Florida we are driving around in my wife's Audi A4. It is a Premium Plus model, and is manual transmission, has Quattro drive. Briefly; the car goes through snow very nicely, it has the best steering and handling and ride I have experienced, the engine hums and the gear shifting is the smoothest I have experienced, the Premium Plus model comes complete, even with lane changing warnings which is a nice feature to have. I can't imagine there being a car that would be more fun per dollar to drive. The car is the perfect blend of luxury and fun. They recalled the car, reprogrammed it, and the Bluetooth now works fine.

I know you must be bitter about Audi's after your experience, but, I think the A4 is an incredible bargain. We were after a 328 or 335 for my wife, and ended up testing the A4 by a total fluke, and we both love it. I would get one myself next time but we need the larger car for getting to Florida and for carrying friends around.

Now, some brief comments about your date. You chose some excellent events to go to to get to know each other. These were events you could talk about and then learn each others thoughts, values, interests. It was nice that she got tickets for an event you would enjoy - so she seems thoughtful and willing to compromise. It is very generous of her to loan you a car at this early stage - she trusts you and likes you. Not quite a slam dunk at this stage, but you are certainly on the right road (to speak in automotive terms). She sounds like she could be a keeper.

And to all my cyber Sales Frontlines friends (who celebrate Christmas and to Richard wherever he may be),........ Have a very Merry Christmas!

abacomike · December 2013

Well, graphicguy, your sure must have some slick moves left in you to have already gone out with your new significant other several times (4 or 5 I think you said). And, she must also have some moves - great seats at a football game! Something tells me that this New Year is going to be a great one for you after suffering the hurts you've had this year.

As for your Audi dealer, taking the loaner away from you before you got the check from Audi is, in my opinion, BUSH LEAGUE. They were nice to you because "they had to be nice to you" per Audi! But if they had handled it a little better - offering you the loaner for another week or so until you received you check, then continued with, "...since you had so many problems with the Audi, we want to keep you as a customer so we are going to offer you any new car on the lot for our net cost, lease or buy! Now that's how a dealership should be run - not the way you were treated by taking away the cookies and leaving you out there in the cold all by your lonesome (well, with the exception of your new significant other).

In any case, at least most of the heartache is over with the Audi.

isellhondas · December 2013

The store where I worked will no longer sell Audis that they take in as trades. They used to keep the exceptional ones but no longer. They wholesale every one. Painful experiences over and over has caused this. Same applies to Land Rovers, Jaguars and most Volkswagens.

Lastly...MERRY CHRISTMAS to all!

abacomike · December 2013

TO ALL MY FRIENDS AND FELLOW POSTERS HERE ON "SFTSF":

I want to extend to you my heartfelt good wishes and sincere hopes for a WONDERFUL, HAPPY and SAFE CHRISTMAS! I pray that all you hoped and wished for are granted this Holiday - and most of all - BE WELL!

graphicguy · December 2013

driver......I was kind of taken aback that the Audi dealer wanted his loaner back so quickly. Not saying the A4 or A6 wouldn't have been an option. Just the mere fact that they didn't value my business (or appreciate my tolerance over all the service visits) really took them out of the running.

Mike....if they had done what you suggested, I definitely would have at least listened, probably given another Audi serious consideration. As it stands, Audi is off my short list. BTW...I still haven't ruled out the E350. I'm thinking this weekend I'll start hearing back from all the dealerships I've spoken to so far. I appreciate your insight and advice.

Already this a.m., I got a call from BMW. Sales person said he'd be there until 4 if I wanted to drop by. I told him I appreciated the efforts but no car buying today.

As far as the "date" is concerned, we just really hit it off immediately. Lots in common, similar backgrounds, similar likes/dislikes, and although are paths never crossed (she's a bit younger than me), we actually grew up not far from each other. There's definitely a physical attraction/spark between the two of us. The downside....is it moving quicker than either of us might think is prudent? We spent a significant amount of time talking about that very topic. At this stage of the game, we're rolling with it and really aren't looking at all the caveats we probably should be considering.

28firefighter · December 2013

Wishing everyone here a very Merry Christmas, if you celebrate!

If you do not celebrate, enjoy your evening of chinese food and movie watching - I know I will!

abacomike · December 2013

@graphicguy said:

At this stage of the game, we're rolling with it and really aren't looking at all the caveats we probably should be considering.

abacomike · December 2013

Graphicguy, as for your relationship with your significant other, that is your (and her) business and not for any of us to comment on - unless you specifically ask for input/feedback. Your "question mark" at the end of one of your comments "...is it moving quicker than either of us might think is prudent?" perhaps asks for some input. 5 dates in 2 weeks sounds like what happened to me when I first met my spouse to be. After one month, I asked her to marry me - we were going out and seeing each other almost every night. The question then must be asked, "...would I have wished things went a bit slower at that time." Yes - she was younger than I by 4 years. A longer engagement would have been preferred, but I guess when you fall "hook, line and sinker" for someone, the end result is inevitable.

Slowing things down just a tad is always good advice - as opposed to being on an "EXPRESS TRAIN" passing just about every station and depot. One has to get off that train and begin thinking about "locals" - trains that stop for every station. It's amazing what can be learned by doing things slowly - people tend to make fewer mistakes.

As for your next car, I guess my advice is to be deliberate in your process, but make a decision on December 31st - best deals are always had that last day of the year. Also, if you itemize your deductions, I would assume you can itemize sales taxes, depending on where you live. I don't know if you have State Income Taxes in Ohio, but here in Florida, since we do not have state income taxes, we can itemize and deduct sales taxes paid on large items. Since I bought two cars this year, that means $2100 plus an amount that is calculated based upon one's gross income. So I will be able to itemize close to $3000 for sales taxes this year.

Whatever your decision, I'm sure it will be the right one for you.

Good Luck!

driver100 · December 2013

@isellhondas said:
The store where I worked will no longer sell Audis that they take in as trades.

I don't think it is best for a dealer to make blanket policies about trades. If you study this chart you can see that Audi has improved greatly since 2010 and is well below average for repairs in most recent years.. Also, the S4 is a very different car - lots of problems, and that can easily happen when you have a low production specialty car.

http://www.truedelta.com/Audi-A4/reliability-7

I drove a CRV for a week, and though it is competent and has proven reliabilty I would only buy one if my priority was to buy a basic reliable vehicle, and if I got absolutely no emotional satisfaction from the car. It is much easier to produce a reliable bare bones car, such as a Corolla, than it is to make a much more complex car. I think people who buy luxury cars know this and allow for it. A car is more than basic transportation for me, so I am willing to put up with some inconvenience in order to get driving pleasure and an emotional boost from my car.

Some people buy a Timex because they just want to know the time, for the lowest possible cost, some people want a Rolex or an Omega because it gives them satisfaction.

Remember, VW plans on becoming the number one car company in the world by volume by 2018. They are already the number one company by profit now. VW is a powerhouse of a company that the others can't touch. It is that way for a reason, so I find it is very short-sighted to not welcome their cars as trade-ins.

If you want to read a fascinating article, about how VW breaks the rules about how a car business should run it's business(disregard the MBAs), and why they are so successful, check out this short article;
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/12/06/how-volkswagen-is-run-like-no-other-car-company/

http://autoblog.com/2012/12/06/how-volkswagen-is-run-like-no-other-car-company/

**Sorry about duplicate links...haven't mastered the URL button, and still can't transfer images!

driver100 · December 2013

@28firefighter said:
Wishing everyone here a very Merry Christmas, if you celebrate!

If you do not celebrate, enjoy your evening of chinese food and movie watching - I know I will!

lol...............we can do both!

abacomike · December 2013

@driver...I don't think it's best for a dealer to make blanket policies about trades...

I would tend to agree with that statement, however a dealership is more familiar with its demographics than you or me. If they end up with Mercedes Benz vehicles sitting on their used car lot for weeks/months at a time, then wholesaling Mercedes trades would be a wise policy. But I believe isellhondas said that the reason they didn't keep Audi's had to do with problems with the mechanical aspects of those cars. I would only comment that if a clean Audi came in on a trade, and after going through a thorough inspection (which all our trades went through) it was found to be in excellent working order, I would put it on the lot for a few weeks to see how it does.

So my policy on taking used cars in for my lot had more to do with demographics than with experiences with brands due to poor quality or problems with that manufacturer.

imidazol97 · December 2013

@isellhondas said:
They wholesale every one. Painful experiences over and over has caused this.

I was browsing cars on the web last evening and noticed that some recent used cars had made the rounds of several dealerships. A used 2012 Cruze, e.g., had been in 5 different auctions from 21000 miles to 22,000 miles over 12 months. No sale shown. It started life in FL as a rental. Why would a car make so many visits to dealers only to be moved back to auction. Now it's at an area Chevrolet dealer.

driver100 · December 2013

@abacomike said:

So my policy on taking used cars in for my lot had more to do with demographics than with experiences with brands due to poor quality or problems with that manufacturer.

I would go along with that. Demographics are a very important consideration for a car dealer. My point is similar, there are few actual lemons these days (aside from GGs S4 experience), and most makes have a captive audience, so if a good clean car comes in, it should probably be considered. The more important consideration is probably what someone is willing to pay for the car.

Some people believe in the remainder book business (my field of expertise), every book will sell, .......you just have to sell it at the right price. It is probably similar with cars or even houses, and it is very true of people who buy businesses that are struggling. You just have to buy the item at the right price. I think if you have a blanket policy about certain vehicles, you are cutting off potential sales. The exceptions being, a demographic reason, no demand for certain models (like selling gas burners when people want to conserve), and buying a car that has proven to be a lemon.

My rule of business is if you have a product with potential, you can make a profit from it, it is just finding the right customer or getting it and selling it at the right price...to just give up separates the successful from the not as successful.

Mike, how is your Dad doing on the holidays?

nyccarguy · December 2013

Merry Christmas to all my friends here on SFTSF!

abacomike · December 2013

@driver...how is hour dad doing on the holidays?

For someone who is 91 years old and still walks like a 25 year old, better than one would expect, driver. His memory continues to regress, but there is nothing I or anyone else can do about that.

Over the past two weeks, we've been going out for dinner at the casino 3 times a week. I had to use up $1200 on comps before the end of the year or lose them. So we ate at NYY Steakhouse 4 times and their Italian restaurant 2 times. Tonight, I have reservations at their Italian restaurant. With some champaign with dinner, that should eat up the remaining comps.

He eats like he is scheduled to be hung the next day, so I like getting him out for dinner. He eats much better. I'm starting to wonder if he hates my cooking!!!

Each time we go, I end up winning enough in the slots to pay for valet parking and the tips. So he likes that. Unfortunately, he can't see very much do he can't play the slots. So he just sits with me and roots me on.

Give my regards to your lovely wife - and MERRY CHRISTMAS to you and your entire family.

cdnpinhead · December 2013

@isellhondas said: Lastly...MERRY CHRISTMAS to all!

And the same to you, old-timer.

Hope you have a pleasant season & a Happy 2014!

isellhondas · December 2013

@driver100 said:

I'm not saying that Audis and Volkswagens are "bad" cars. What I did say was that due to continual troubles and unhappy customers that the store where I worked made a decision to no longer retail them. This decision was made after many MANY bad experiences with them.

As a manager, tough decisions often have to be made and finally, enough was enough!

You say they have improved and, perhaps this is the case? It's quite possible that once this has been proven that my old store could very well reverse it's decision and start retailing them again.

I have owned Porsches, MG's, BMW's, Muscle cars and everything else. I'm sure I'll buy something of that nature again as a "fun" car to drive as an extra car.

I will buy a car like this KNOWING it's probably going to cause me some trouble and grief. I will accept the risk.

As an everyday car, I'll stick with my boring Hondas. They always start and never give me any trouble as I go from Point A to Point B.

Stores can and will make blanket policies not to sell items that give them and their customers trouble. I know there were products I wouldn't carry when I owned my own business.

I didn't need unhappy customers. Just a business decision and nothing more.

snakeweasel · December 2013

Just wanted to give all of you and yours a very merry Christmas and a great new year.

roadburner · December 2013

@snakeweasel said:
Just wanted to give all of you and yours a very merry Christmas and a great new year.

Ditto!!!

abacomike · December 2013

@abacomike ... Follow-up after dinner.

Well, it happened again - won $150 on the slots - enough for valet parking and the tip, and enough left over for gas for a couple of weeks. I guess Dad brings me luck - just enough to make a few bucks. For Christmas Eve, the casino and the restaurants were jammed. Must be loads of lonely people down here that they would rather spin the slots than stay home all alone.

What can I say - MERRY CHRISTMAS everyone!

driver100 · December 2013

@abacomike said:
driver...how is hour dad doing on the holidays?
So he just sits with me and roots me on.

A nice post and glad to hear your Dad is enjoying his time with you. You are a great son, and you are giving your Dad a very nice quality of life at this time in his life.
Thanks for the update, that is a nice story for this time of year.

driver100 · December 2013

@isellhondas said:

Stores can and will make blanket policies not to sell items that give them and their customers trouble.

In thinking it over I think you do have a good point. I started thinking about the fact you have to give a warranty with risky cars and it may cost more to repair them than any profit you may realize. Not to mention the dealers reputation and you may prefer to lose one sale but have happy repeat customers.

I am sure some cars still could be risky to sell as a used car...my BIL hates his 2008 Impala, and yet I heard someone else say he loves his 08 Impala. But, most cars are pretty reliable these days, and some people really want a particular car..like a Jetta or Jaguar. Though, I suppose it is best if they buy it from the parent dealer of that make...they'll have a much better chance of doing the repairs.

About getting from A to B in the most reliable car possible........there was a time in my life when I would go along with that. If the 535 or the A4 start acting up then I would probably think that way again, but, for now, I prefer some zest in my driving. I have owned some pretty crappy cars in my time, and for now, I want to drive something I can really enjoy for as long as I can. If the 535 or A4 start acting up, I'll look at a Lexus, Accura or Infinity next time around.

snakeweasel · December 2013

@abacomike said:
abacomike ... Follow-up after dinner.

Well, it happened again - won $150 on the slots -

Last time I won that much on slots it was on a whim. I was walking past the dollar slots and one just seemed to call my name so I plugged a buck in it and hit the button. That one buck netted me somewhere in the neighborhood of $150.

Enjoy your time with your dad, some of my favorite memories are times spent with my dad. I do miss him.

snakeweasel · December 2013

@driver100 said:
I have owned some pretty crappy cars in my time, and for now, I want to drive something I can really enjoy for as long as I can.

So have I, but at times what may seem to some to be a crappy car can be fun. Back in the 80's I had a Dodge Omni GLH (GLH means Goes Like Hell). It had a 2.2 liter turbo making somewhere around 150 HP, that may not seem like a lot but the car weighed in under 2,500 pounds giving it a power to weight ratio that is impressive even today. That car was a blast to drive.

snakeweasel · December 2013

It's Christmas eve, She who Must Be Obeyed has fallen asleep on the sofa next to me and the fire in the fireplace is slowly dying. NORAD is tracking Santa over the North Atlantic (it's nice to know we have spent billions of tax payer dollars to track Santa) I cooked lobster tail for Christmas eve dinner and it went well. I sit here with a glass of Wisconsin wine (Hey don't knock it, it's very good and the winery is an award winning winery) with Christmas music and the crackling of the fire as background music thinking does it really get better than this?

Here is hoping your holidays are as good.

driver100 · December 2013

@snakeweasel said:
Enjoy your time with your dad, some of my favorite memories are times spent with my dad. I do miss him.

I miss that there are things I wish I could have told my Dad, such as;

Once I was managing a retail store. He told me it would be better to get a job in sales, you don't work holidays, evenings, and weekends and if you are in sales you have a better chance of earning more. This was life altering information.
He had words of wisdom....once I had a terrible job, I hated it from day one, but I needed the money. He said, if you enjoyed the job they wouldn't pay you to do it. That got me through that job and others.
He taught me how to drive and gave me an interest in cars. He loved his cars and he was a traveling salesman, and bought a new car every 2 years.
He had common sense ideas about saving money and not needing extravagant things. He was very practical minded, which has served me well.
He was honest and ethical....and I admire those qualities and live by them as best I can. Unfortunately, I have come across people who don't have those virtues - and I try to avoid them.

Though my father died at 92 it happened fairly quickly. It was too hard for me to thank him for all the things he did for me, and he would be happy for me and the way things turned out. If your Dad is still here, then think about telling him how grateful you are for what he has done for you.... you can't do it after.

graphicguy · December 2013

Want to thanks all of my friends here.....well...for being who you are.....and listening to my meanderings over the years.

Regardless of faith or creed, I wish everyone the peace and hope.

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