Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Triumph Spitfire

royvp1076royvp1076 Member Posts: 1
edited March 2014 in BMW
I plan to sell my 1973 Triumph Spitfire which is
in excellant condition with 80K miles and have no
idea of its value. Any advise would be appreciated

Comments

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Okay, you have a Mark IV model then. This has some plusses and minuses. The plusses are a full-synchro transmission and a nicer interior; the big minus is yet a further drop in horsepower which makes this car pretty slow for a sports car.

    So it's not the best Spitfire (pre 1971s would be), nor the worst (the 1500 would probably take that title because of very shoddy build quality).

    Anyway, all that being said, if you were offered anywhere from $2,500 to $3,500 for it, I'd suggest accepting it.
  • spnxspnx Member Posts: 37
    I know it's not precisely on topic, but I just want to add that putting an aftermarket exhaust header on that car *completely* transforms it - much more power! The stock header must be very restrictive.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The whole engine/exhaust design is a botch...anything that can be done to make the engine breath better, get more fuel, etc., would help a lot...of course, in California we can't do that unless the vehicle is 1973 or older.

    I usually tell people that the best Spitfire would be a combination of old and new Spitfires...using the suspension and transmission from the newer ones but the older engine and older body style.
  • bubukittybubukitty Member Posts: 96
    How's this for an interesting combo.....GT-6 frame, engine etc and Spitfire body. I saw a such a car for sale on a specialty car sale showroom site on the internet. Donor GT6 and rebodied with the Spitfire rear panels. Seems like the best of both worlds to me...GT-6 power and open air pleasure! Of course this isn't stock but what the heck. I had a '69 GT6+ many years ago that was just a lot of fun and pretty fast too. I wish it had been a convertible though.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well, the TR6 is something like that, kind of a big lazy engine that cruises well, and offers classsic British look and feel.
  • bubukittybubukitty Member Posts: 96
    That's true...I love the TR-6. I have always wanted one. I just thought that the GT-6/Spit combo was kind of interesting, but somewhat redundant with the TR-6 in the Triumph stable.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yeah, that's what I was thinking...it's a lot of work and you don't end up with something all that special really...but sometimes just for the sake of a hobby, it's fun to create projects like that.
  • ded42ded42 Member Posts: 7
    Mr. Shiftright, you got it right! Not the fastest 2 seater, but there's nothing else like it. I owned 2 6's in the early eighties. Paid 3500.00 for the first one, 1974, burnt orange, black inside, no overdrive. It was truly mint but... stolen @#$%. The second was a 74 also, repainted, not mint at all, w/od. Transmission failed, had to sell at next to nothing. (I was just starting out $wise) My first TR-6 was totally reliable, and so great on the highway. It felt good to see that hood stretching out in front of you, the wood dash, and the exhaust sound with the top down. Great trunk space for a sports car also. Would love to get another in the future. Do you know the real reason for discontinuing the TR-6 in 1976?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I suppose it was just another blockheaded automotive decision by British management of the times. After all, then came the TR-7, which had to be one of the worst cars in the world, and soon after, the death of MG, another bad decision. The hits just kept on coming back in those grim days.
  • ded42ded42 Member Posts: 7
    Yes, now I remember,British Leland had a young lady working for them. What was her name? Oh yeh, it was Miss Management.I think she worked for a number of automotive firms through the years. As far as reliability goes, now that I think back, we had an excellent garage in Branford Ct. that specialized in british imports. The owner had a real passion for getting it right and took his craft very seriously. Hope there are still mechanics like him these days. He made my TR-6 reliable. Thanks for the response.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yes, there are mechanics like him, but I don't know as they are very successful businessmen as much as lovers of what they do.
  • pellarbypellarby Member Posts: 1
    I have been catching-up on my reading, and noticed an "almost-thread" on why Triumph went out of business. Interesting theories, most of which are correct, but only components fo the entire truth.

    I worked at Triumph from 1975 to 1980 (sorry, guys - some of the synchro in the Spitfire gearbox is my design!), and watched a company be torn apart by Unions asking for more money than the company had, laws (primarily in the US) limiting the sale of convertibles, little R&D being done for new models, the recruiting of the best and brightest engineers and managers to other British Leyland divisions (Rover and Jaguar in particular), low pay, poor moral, old equipment, etc., etc. In short, just about everybody (but especially Michael Edwards) had a hand in their demise. I was in Coventry last year, and it was so sad to see the Canley and Tile Hill plants no longer there.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yes, thank you for that interesting information. It was certainly a grim era in the British automotive industry.
  • igloomasterigloomaster Member Posts: 249
    My mom had a TR4, and loved it, but said she had to get it tuned-up constantly. Anyone know specifically why? I know somewhere to get one, but I'm not sure if I should.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Because no one knew how to tune it up in the first place is why...it's a simple little engine that really a mechanic from 1925 would feel comfortable with. I don't know why she would have such trouble getting it in tune....you got 4 cylinders, 4 spark plugs, a set of points, distributor cap and rotor, and two SU carbs with three moving parts in each carb. Also you can set the valve clearance with your thumb no doubt. This car is not rocket science.
  • rea98drea98d Member Posts: 982
    There lies your problem-A mechanic from 1925 would feel comfortable with it, so to a mechanic from 2000, it might as well be rocket science. If it doesn't have that little plug under the dash where the mechanic can plug in his brain-er, I mean computer (hey, it does most of the thinking!)- then he won't know where to begin on the car.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    But modern mechanics are generally pretty smart people. If you can fix a leaking faucet, you can fix a Triumph Spitfire. And the principles of ignition, fuel and engine compression are still the same. The person trying to fix that car must have been pretty lame.
  • kranjec1kranjec1 Member Posts: 20
    I'll never forget driving my spitfire from Chicago to Milwaukee in a driving sleet when the windsheild wipers, defrost fan, and lights all went out. what a joy!
  • rea98drea98d Member Posts: 982
    Made by Lucas?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Come on, where's you sense of adventure. It would have been SO BORING in a Camry :)
  • lokkilokki Member Posts: 1,200
    A friend owned a GT-6 back in the early 70's. We drove from Pennsylvania to Ohio and participated in a rally.. great fun. Got lost a lot and uhm, had to drive 'quickly' a lot to get back on schedule... Then after the award ceremony with dinner and drinks, we discovered that the car had no lights... Had to drive home 150 miles with one friend's car in front of us acting as our headlights and one friend's car behind us to be our taillights... now that was an Adventure.

    Anybody know why you can't buy cars like that anymore?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Oh, safety and smog regulations, and people's tolerance is very low these days for eccentricity. It's quite common these days for people to complain when their engine "only" goes 125,000 before it needs work!
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    that clown who came here looking to drum up support for a class action suit against Mazda because their trannies only go 135k. It isn't often I feel sorry for major corporations, but...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well, you know, he's upset...maybe just over-reacting to something that bums him out.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    The tranny in my GTP went out twice and I wasn't too pleased, and it was under warranty.

    On the other hand, I just wonder how much people can reasonably expect to be protected from life. Things happen when you drive a beater, and I can tell you about them. But when the tranny in my Power Hawk went out, did I look to Studebaker, its heirs or successors, for compensation?
  • isrisr Member Posts: 2
    I will be going to an auction soon that has a 1970 GT6+. It looks to be in good shape body wise some restore work done. I hear the car runs, but I don't know much else. Does anyone know an estimate price range???
    Thanks
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well, as a gauge you should be able to buy a very clean, good running car that's ready to go for $3,500. So if it needs paint and bodywork you can see that the value of the auction car isn't very much.
  • isrisr Member Posts: 2
    FYI

    Thanks for the help. This went for $3100. It was the orginal owner, 56,000 miles, and the clutch needed work. They did start it. Over all it looked good and did not sound bad.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well, sounds like a typical public auction price...higher than you could have bought it privately, but not so bad if you did the clutch work yourself. Fair enough for buyer and seller at $3,100.
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    I just found this board regarding Spitfires, but I'm hoping someone is still out there. My dad has a 1964 Spitfire MK 1 that has been sitting in his backyard with a car cover on it for a few years. I think the last time we started it was 5-7 years ago. I am trying to get him to let me try to get it into running condition, and then work on restoring it. Does anyone have any suggestions as where to start? I am assuming I would have to drain the oil from the engine somehow and flush it before anything else. I must also admit that my knowledge of cars is very basic.

    TIA
    Mark
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well, first of all I'd get myself a Spitfire parts catalog and then make a list of everything you'll need and price that out. Once I've done that, I'd take a look at current prices for a decent running and clean Spitfire and see if a total or even partial restoration would be worth the trouble.

    However, if you just want to play and learn things, well, why not experiment on this car?

    Yes, you need to pay particular attention to the gas tank (drain and flush it) and the fuel lines and water lines and brake lines. Whatever is cracked or rotted needs replacement. You don't want a fire or an overheated engine. Then pump up the tires and drive it around and see what you got.
  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    Lucas, Prince of Darkness.

    or, Why do the English drink warm beer? Because Lucas makes refrigerators.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Actually you can make these electrical systems much more reliable. Most failures on old British cars are due to years of neglect by cheapskate owners.

    If you buy an old British car with Lucas electrics, you should replace the battery cables immediately, clean the fuse box and replace all the fuses, check for any loose or corroded electrical couplers that join wiring (or junction blocks), and, hopefully, replace the Lucas generator with something like a Motorola alternator (or better yet Bosch). But even with the wheezy old Lucas generator, if you spend a day spiffing up the electrical system it should give much or any trouble from then on. The Lucas generator is really the weakest link, as are the rather crappy couplers and junction boxes.

    I've driven MGBs over every terrain for days on end with no troubles, but I attended to the electrics (basically stock however) and added a cooling fan.

    The key to reliability with old British cars is maintenance on a higher level than if you were driving a Buick. If you don't like to get under the hood and keep things up, get a Miata.
  • sebringjxisebringjxi Member Posts: 140
    Shifty, I gather from your earlier comments in this forum, you're not crazy about late model Spitfires, but I need your opinion. There's a faded yellow Spitfire sitting very lonely on a trucking company parking lot with a 4 Sale sign in the window. I stopped to look at it today. The door plate says it was built in December 1975, so that would make it a 76 model. Big rubber "stoppers" hung out on the bumpers on each end. 1 carb. Looked pretty rough. Glass was floppy loose in both doors, but i didn't see any rust. Interior looked shot, but then again every Triumph I've ever seen looked like the interior had self destructed! You recall I'm used to those high quality British cars like MGCs and Jensen Healeys (and the occasional Fiat). About all I can say good about the car was the top looked fairly new (not all fasteners attached) and the tires were good. What do these cars go for on average (and this car was WAY below average).

    Are they worth fooling with?

    Hal
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Hal, I wouldn't even bother. The car is literally worthless in the state you mention. Even pristine it's a $2,500 car all day long, and a pretty incompetent car at that. I couldn't say one good thing about these later Spitfires. These Triiumphs and the older GT6s, also Spitfire based, are on my World's Worst Cars list.
  • sebringjxisebringjxi Member Posts: 140
    I called him later yesterday afternoon and he said he was asking "book price" for it....$4200! I nearly choked on the phone! Given what I gave for the '82 Spider, I'd figure this car worth about $500 at best! He said he would consider "reasonable" offers! I think he better consider setting it on fire and collecting the insurance!

    Hal
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well, tell him to buy a box of birthday candles, because he and the car are going to be celebrating it annually.
  • dschlei1dschlei1 Member Posts: 2
    I bought a 1977 Spitfire 1500 recently (as addition to my summer daily driver, a 63 TR4). The paint is not good and the canvas is also bad. Otherwise it is OK, 35000 on the clock with factory hardtop, overdrive and rather new tires. I paid $800 for it. I started to rebuild it last week and it is really not a bad car design. I don't understand why the host of this board is so negative about it. The design is light years ahead of my TR4, which I turned into a reliable car that ran 5000 miles this summer without any extra work. I think I can do this with this Spitfire (just have to take care of Lucas) and will have it ready for my son as soon as he gets his drivers license in the fall.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well, don't take it personally. You just buy what you like and don't worry about what the Host says. My comments are meant to reflect upon the historical record and get that straight, not to bash the car.

    Here is perhaps a more considered and historical view of the car, quoted from the "TRiumph Buyer's Guide", written by Triumph guru Richard Newton:

    "The 1500 Spitfire was really a patchwork response to American emission and safety standards. When the Spitfire 1500 was new it was unreliable, poorly assembled and started to rust the second week you owned the car. Leyland had given up on the Spitfire. The 1500 changed only in response to the laws, not the marketplace. There was no effort to make the Spitfire a better car".

    I think what he's saying here, and what I agree with, is that while the 1500 is a more comfortable and better handling car than the old Mark 1s, it is not a faster, or better, or more fun car. In other words, the Spitfire evolved, but its evolution was not aimed at improvement, just low level surivival. I mean, what other company can put in a much larger engine and end up with less HP as a result? It's kind of sad really.

    Then again, you should be glad for the bad reputation. How else could you have bought this car for only $800. You wouldn't get a TR6 for that.
  • dschleidschlei Member Posts: 1
    Who would want a TR6 if one has a 4? In that case one might as well buy a Miata, what's the difference?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well, the TR4 is more fun to drive, that's true, but the TR6 is no Miata. The TR6 is often called "a man's car", and there is truth in that. It has the same typical British car "dog cart" suspension of the times (stiff, harsh but competent and fun) and a very nose heavy feel. A Miata feels like a car built by an advanced civilization of hi-tech aliens in comparison.

    My favorite is really the TR250, which has the TR4 body and the TR6 engine. I drove one for about a year. Had all kinds of trouble with it and loved it anyway.

    When I lived in Manhattan, I had a Morgan +4 and my friend Arthur had an early Spitfire. We raced all around the Big Apple, and I always beat him up badly with the Moggie. And sometimes towed him home, too. His revenge was listening to me bemoan the teeth-crashing ride I had to live with.
  • dpwestlakedpwestlake Member Posts: 207
    My TR3 was a real driving adventure.

    TR3 drivers were at one with the elements. The ragtop leaked where it snapped to the windscreen and the aerodynamics of the car tended to pull the sidescreens out about an inch or so when you drove over 40 mph. I once drove to a friend's house in a heavy rainstorm. He asked if I swam there.

    The TR3 had some unique (some would say terrifying) handling characteristics. The chassis ran beneath the rear axle. The body roll in a fast turn would lift the inside rear wheel. Once you got used to it you'd just keep your foot on the gas and steer into the skid.

    Oh yeah, I almost forgot. the (optional) heater kept your right knee nice and warm (left knee for RHD cars) while the rest of you froze.

    God those cars were fun.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The TR3 is a tough car to restore because it is very difficult to get the whole thing to bolt up right and look good.

    It was a simple, rugged car, but pretty basic and pretty brutal.

    The "rule" was that Triumphs were faster but MGs much more civilized, attractive and well-built. I think that generally that was very true, even later on.
  • dpwestlakedpwestlake Member Posts: 207
    The TR3 would blow the doors off an an MG. IIRC the MGs had a 1600cc engine, the TR3 was 1991cc. The same engine was ised in the TR4 & TR4A. The later ones were 2138cc.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yep. My Morgan was Triumph powered and the Spitfire never had a chance.
  • triumphertriumpher Member Posts: 58
    I have to agree, my TR4 is definitely faster than my spit (I have the BIG engine in the TR4). But the Spit out corners the TR4 any day. Go on a flat, very curvy road and the Spit outruns the
    TR4 ( I can say that since I drive both cars), and the canvas of the Spit is almost rain tight, the TR4 just looks tight but is not much better than the TR3. But I prefer the TR4 over the Spit for the fun of driving.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Early Spits can get very funny in the corners. Their IRS is not very good, as the inside wheel will tuck and scare the bejeezus out of you. Of course you have to be "on the ragged edge" in the corners for this to happen. I remember it not being a very pleasant experience.

    The Mk2 is a better car than either the 1 or the 3 or 4 in my opinion. It's the one I would buy. Good rugged engine, (you can even find an overdrive!) and you can even race 'em with the right mods.
This discussion has been closed.