Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Where Is Ford taking the Lincoln Motor Company?

1138139140141143

Comments

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,193
    edited October 2013
    "...they are like new still at that age."

    What you say is often true, except you only have one year left on the 4 year warranty, assuming the car has mileage left on the warranty. The reason depreciation is so high on the models you mentioned is that the cost for maintenance and repairs is also very high. It's hard to beat the system. However, I generally agree with you; if you're going to buy an expensive luxury car, it's worth the risk to buy it used.

    By the way, there's a discussion in the "Classic Cars" forum entitled "Buying Luxury Used Cars."
  • edward53edward53 Posts: 109
    It seems to me that about a year ago someone wrote that the new MKZ would have no problem selling at least 5k units a month. Now this same someone is writing that the new MKC will have no problem selling at least 5k units a month. Perhaps I am wrong but wouldn't one buy the same platform in a comparable Ford? Most younger affluent folks research a vehicle before they purchase and will know that the MKC is not a premium vehicle and will not pay a premium price for a differently styled Ford. Surely Ford marketing research would bear that out. If not, then Ford should really consider firing its entire marketing people. They are stuck in the 60's and 70's. Perhaps though these folks are in their sixty or seventies?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,674
    The MKC is just as premium a vehicle as the Caddy SRX and it sold 7K vehicles last month.

    You're obviously not the target customer for the MKZ or the MKC so why do you care?
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,194
    The reason we're here is because most of us just like talking about cars. That's plenty enough motivation for postings.

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,245
    not everyone bleeds blue.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,194
    edited November 2013
    "The 2015 Lincoln MKC is an impressive package in person, combining high-quality materials, a thoughtful layout and a premium look. With an assortment of powerful, presumably efficient powertrains, it should tick all of the right boxes."

    2015 Lincoln MKC Revealed

    The "2015 MKC will start at $33,995 - "about $5K less than German competitors", per the Twitter feed.

    image

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,674
    This is a pretty good effort. This is how you share a platform but build a totally distinct vehicle. Don't forget that there will be Black Label design options that we haven't seen yet. And rumor is there is a hybrid (green label) and performance (red label) version on the way too. The performance version might use the new 2.7L EB.

    The Lincoln website has more details. Some things that still aren't clear are whether it gets the Adaptive LED headlamps. I certainly hope so.
  • edward53edward53 Posts: 109
    They should be nervous because Cadillac is hunting in their part of the woods and not because of a premium $34K Ford. Style is subjective .
    One may believe that a style may look like it belongs on a premium vehicle while another person may not.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,194
    Green label, black label. Getting confused about whether we're discussing Lincoln or Mr. Daniels. :)

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,674
    This is the same formula as the Lexus RX and Caddy SRX, just in a slightly smaller package. In this case they'll be scrambling to catch up to Lincoln for a change. This is a growing market segment and the MKC will be more than competitive. Even the Lincoln hating magazines and blogs admit that it's not a tarted up Ford.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    Yes, the RX, SRX, Audi Q5, etc. are more like the MKX. I assume MKX will get a much needed re-do in the relatively near future, as the new Edge is already coming along.

    Meanwhile, Audi will have the Q3 to compete with the MKC, and more like that will be forthcoming, now that even truly tiny luxury like the Buick Encore has actually found a market. Comparing the MKC price to say the Q5 price is a bit disingenuous, as it should cost less than the slightly bigger luxury CUVs. It should cost a bit less than the MKX as well.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,674
    Revised MKX is due out within the next 12 months. Not sure how the MKC stacks up against the others on size but I agree they should be comparing similar sizes.
  • berriberri Posts: 4,159
    edited November 2013
    The initial pix look good to me. But, Lincoln had better deliver a product that meets the pix when buyers look at it and test drive. They better price it aggressively and avoid that nasty Detroit habit of piling on the optional equipment. Incidentally, I think Nissan has emulated that Detroit options approach to some degree lately and it doesn't appear to be helping the dealer's move product.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,674
    Piling on optional equipment is a Detroit habit? Seriously? Have you looked at BMW, Mercedes or Porsche options? You can add $30K in options to a $60K Porsche!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,615
    nobody beats Porsche for "options pornography".

    MODERATOR

  • berriberri Posts: 4,159
    Good point. I don't do German because of their reliability and maintenance. But they are a competitor in lux. I wonder if Lincoln will draw more from German or Asian like Lexus? Lincoln should work on giving their brand some more cachet, because I think a lot of lux buying is driven by perceived status.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,245
    ". . . a lot of lux buying is driven by perceived status."

    Ya think?

    Much of what gets leased or occasionally bought by the American public has more to do with ingrained brand loyalty that goes back to whenever the individual involved went on thier first memorable picnic or road trip or whatever, reinforced by whatever their family drove. GM, Ford & Chrysler have benefitted (or not) from this for years/decades.

    To intrude on that will require something extra. Whether Lincoln can deliver it remains to be seen. Fortunately, I'm no longer directly involved -- just watching the parade go by.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,674
    They're not going to get MB or BMW buyers. But they can get Lexus, Audi, Caddy, Acura and Infiniti buyers. And don't underestimate the built in Ford base looking to upgrade.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    When Lincolnbegins selling cars in China next year, they will refer to classic names like Continental and Zephyr. But apparently this change only takes place in China.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,324
    Other changes include sub standard safety features such as only two SRS instead of 6 & 8. And why not, China ships cheap to us.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    are you sure? Lincoln will be competing there with a number of prestigious brands from around the world.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,154
    Lincoln has absolutely nothing that appeals to me as both an owner of a Cadillac and a Mercury Grand Marquis LS. I would sooner buy a Chrysler 300 or an import.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,674
    And? For every Grand Marquis fan there are 10000 potential buyers who would prefer a MKZ or MKC.
  • roho1roho1 Posts: 317
    Really? Here's another Grand Marquis fan that just bought a Lexus. No re-badged Ford for me.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,674
    You prefer rebadged Toyotas? I was referring to folks who think Lincoln should be town cars and grand marquis instead of modern designs like Lexus.

    Not sure you understand what rebadged means.
  • edward53edward53 Posts: 109
    edited December 2013
    What Toyota passenger cars - not SUVs or crossovers- besides the ES share platforms with Lexus? Aren't all Toyotas FWD and all Lexus models -excluding the models listed in my previous sentence- RWD. Which Nissan models besides the Z and GTR are RWD as are -excluding SUVs and crossovers- all Infinitie passenger cars? Now about Audi, all of its passenger cars from A4 upward and its Q5 crossover SUV use the MLB platform while its low cost models share the MQB platform with Volkwagen. This also includes the Audi TT. It's only Lincoln and Acura that share lower priced vehicle platforms across their entire model line. Lincoln and Acura may not meet the definition of being rebadged but they do meet the definition of being badge engineered.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,674
    We're not just talking about cars. Lexus' two biggest sellers are the ES and RX both based on a Toyota FWD platform. Lincoln's first 2 new vehicles are the MKZ and MKC followed by the MKX. Because that's where the sales volume and profits are. They'll have some bespoke high performance platforms that you think they need - they're just not the first priority.

    The MKC started with an escape platform but they modified the track, width, height and every piece of sheet metal plus the entire suspension and interior. And added a new engine. How much do they have to change it before it's not a badge job?

    If Lincoln uses the mustang platform will you say the same thing about badge engineering or does that only count with fwd platforms?
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    Here we go again. Can't we all just get along? LOL.

    What we can all agree to right now is that Lincoln does not have a competitive line-up. Even Acura, with its questionable styling and Honda underpinnings across the line-up, sells two to three times as many vehicles in the US as Lincoln does.

    Lincoln's offerings mostly suck when compared to the competition. We all agree that the Navigator, MKS, MKX and MKT need to be revamped. The MKZ needs tweaking too, as it sells "ok" at 2800 units per month, but that is hardly anything on which to sustain a brand.

    The MKC looks to be done right for its class, from everything I have seen about it so far. But two models that are, or will be soon, competitive won't reverse Lincoln's fortunes. The MKC won't even be in showrooms until fall, 2014.

    Ford is still concentrating on Ford, and that may not be a bad thing. The new Mustang (fall 2014) looks like a hit out of the park. The new F150 will be along at about the same time. The new Edge too. The two new Transit sizes are coming at about the same time. The Ford brand pays the bills. Lincoln does not add much to the bottom line, unlike for example Audi whose far smaller sales than Volswagen still nearly provide similar bottom line profits.

    Lincoln is still the stepchildof Ford. Even though many more resources are being thrown at it, it is still not enough when even Hyundai and Kia are beginning to put out superior premium products. Well, ok, what is planned by Lincoln could give Acura a run for its money in about two years. But every established premium brand has far more new iron in the pipeline than Lincoln does. The plan as I understand it is that Lincoln will expand to a seven model lineup by some time in 2015.

    Audi and Mercedes and BMW have handfuls of new models coming to market in just the next two years. Cadillac is a distant competitor in this arena, but even they have clawed a way back to some respectability with good sales by the ATS (a new market for Cadillac audaciously going up against the iconic BMW 3 series), SRX, XTS (3,400 sales last month for a full size and quite expensive FWD sedan--a market that continues to shrink), the new CTS which will soon build sales beyond even what the ATS has done, and the new Escalade which goes on sale early next year. The ATS coupe and ELR coupe won't add many sales, but like the German big three's many specialized offerings, they will bring peoplle into the showroom who will then look at some of the other more practical choices.

    That's something Lincoln truly lacks...anything like Ford's Mustang that will cause people who have a sort of allegiance to another brand to have a look. Even if Lincoln had that sort of "halo" model, like Allen points out, the other highly competitive and more practical products simply aren't there yet.

    Lincoln will need the better part of two decades to again have the opportunity to become the player it was from 1990 to 2000. In 1990, Lincoln sold about four times as many vehicles as it does today. Cadillac speeded up their recovery by spending inordinate amounts of money. It is working for them so far, but was a huge gamble.

    Lincoln on the other hand seems to now have adopted a more "Acura approach" to their overhaul. Mind you, Acura still has more money and resources committed to the process than Lincoln does, but Lincoln has definitely stepped it up. It gives me some hope that Lincoln will still be here in 20 years, but I wouldn't bet on them surpassing Cadillac anytime soon, as Lincoln first did in 1998 after 59 years, and again in 2000.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,674
    I don't agree that Lincoln is taking an Acura approach. I think that's just where the low hanging fruit is to get started. We're hearing that Lincoln has a lot more new and exciting vehicles in the pipeline that haven't been announced yet. Don't mistake product secrecy and methodical progress with apathy.
  • edward53edward53 Posts: 109
    edited January 17

    Is Lincoln dead meat. In2013, Cadillac sold 182,543 units which is an increase of aprox 22% over its total sales from 2012.. Lincoln ,in 2013, sold a total of 81,694 units which is a decrease of about 0.5 % from its total sales of 2012 yr. I would think that Lincoln should be showing some improvement over last yrs sales if Lincoln were going to be viable product. After all the MKZ was to put Lincoln back in the premium vehicle game. It may be time for Ford to stick a fork in Lincoln and call it cooked.

Sign In or Register to comment.