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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181

    I'm going to the Chicago auto show on Monday. I go every year. It's bigger than the Detroit show but has less "introductions" but usually has a couple of new intros that the Detroit show doesn't have. I would not trust loved ones to Chinese built cars. It's bad enough that some parts are sourced there now. Just hope the car companies that are buying are doing very good due diligence. I'm sure Aston Martin thought they were. Scary.

  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217

    @m6user give us a report what you see, I read Ford will have the new mustang out and open for people to sit in, Also BMW will have the 4 series convertible there. I wonder if Nissan will have the maxlma concept there as well as the new version of the 510...

  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,497

    The new Mustang did not look impressive on a television report on from the Chicago Auto Show. Maybe in person?

  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181

    I think some people are turned off by the grill as it reminds them too much of the new Fusion. I don't have strong feelings about it either way. I like the side profile as it reminds me more of the 67 Fastback. Add in major interior upgrades, independent rear susp., new 2.3 turbo with higher mpg, wider and lower......etc. Sounds like a pretty nice package.

  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217

    I have to agree, the Ecoboost 2.3 sounds like an impressive engine, and of course the turners will have a field day with that engine too, in the back of my mind I can see having a 2015 GT with the track package...

  • dash5dash5 Member Posts: 421

    We should see the Jaguar entry into this class pretty soon:

    http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1054587_jaguar-small-sedan-to-be-revealed-this-summer-report

    Jaguar’s new small sedan to take on the likes of the BMW 3-Series and Mercedes-Benz C-Class will go on sale in 2015 and be the first model spawned from an advanced aluminum structure known as the iQ[Al]. However, we won’t have to wait too long to see the car revealed, according to the latest reports.

    Just-Auto, based on an interview with Jaguar design boss Ian Callum, is reporting that the new car, rumored to be called the XS, will be revealed as early as this summer. This suggests that we could see it, or at least a concept version, unveiled at the Goodwood Festival of Speed in late June, the Brit event where last year Jaguar presented its Project 7 concept car.

    During the same interview, Callum is also reported to have said that Jaguar is planning facelifts for several models, including the recently launched F-Type range. Though he didn’t confirm plans for any other models, we know due to test mule sightings that Jaguar is also working on a new crossover as well as a next-generation XF.

    As for the XS, it is based on the aforementioned iQ[Al] structure, a lightweight aluminum design that will incorporate a new family of four-cylinder engines called the Hotfire series. Jaguar has also designed its iQ[Al] structure to be able to accommodate its 3.0-liter V-6 already offered in the F-Type range.

  • konacougkonacoug Member Posts: 196

    Just my .02 cents on MSD's and leasing....MSD's saved me about $40 per month in payments, so $40 x 36 = $1440, for an investment of $2450, pretty nice non-taxable rate of return. I could of bought if I wanted to, even a 5 series...but, I live in Hawaii, I don't want to think about the long term maintenance, the effect of the salt & sun and I like driving a new car. So, the next BMW, in about 2 years will be ED and I am already looking forward to that experience. As far as gaining equity, I'm just not interested, I have better things to spend my money on.

  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310

    I'm happy to see flight still test driving cars with no intention of purchase (catty cts)- others are going to auto shows - and others replacing ugly cars (yes TL lovers) to something more sexy. After having an Infiniti g for 39400 miles I recently (2 days ago) swapped for a 13 slightly used and nicely discounted audi s4. Will report back on how its behaving- very impressed by both acceleration, and technology in the new rig. Also its very quiet in comfort mode vs the Japanese version. I will say this about my old G - no problems - a great car for the money and very nice highway cruiser. The audi while very nice has a lot to live up to given its inflated price- will report back as the miles pile up.

    Drive like you live

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373

    @sweendogy

    Congrats on the S4! Enjoy it!

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217

    @konacoug said:
    Just my .02 cents on MSD's and leasing....MSD's saved me about $40 per month in payments, so $40 x 36 = $1440, for an investment of $2450, pretty nice non-taxable rate of return.

    The best part of the MSD is the fact you get your deposits back at the end of the lease, so you saved money on money returned.. It is really a no brainier for people who lease.. BTW, the ED is really the only way to go, we are planing on a ED in 2015 with a Performance Center pick up.

  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    edited February 2014

    @nyccarguy said:
    sweendogy

    Congrats on the S4! Enjoy it!

    Now sweendogy will know what we mean by the Infiniti G being "growly" as compared to other engines, and also why we love driving German cars. Hopefully he also won't see any of the legendary German reliability issues as compared to most Asian makes!

  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310

    @tlong- the growl while louder then a German sedan that costs a minimum of 10k more was one I actually loved while pushing up an on ramp- and knew every time I heard that growl I was going to pass most cars as I entered. I hope I don't see the German dragons because like I mentioned earlier the g had no issues.

    4 days old to me- its a tight sedan- sure the s4 trim is nice - the technology and dash layout very tight- the buttons near the shifter and toggle buttons all over the steering wheel and stalks are way over the top and take away from driving. I wanted one with the rear sports diff and waited to get this one- haven't noticed it yet- but others have posted its a must. Time will tell- car in the snow with winter tires is a real cat, can't wait for the summer as I will slap 19' slicks on.

  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194

    I can understand why some people would like the growl, it's just not my thing. I had an A4 way back in '98-'04 and loved that car, but it started having some reliability issues. My '05 TL which I still drive has been close to flawless at nearly 140K now. But I miss the Audi driving dynamics...

  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 4,684

    The growl of the V8, that is one of the things I miss most about my recently departed Jag XK...

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343

    My second new S4 came in late last month -- and I'm loving it! OK, OK, not literally another actual car, rather the Audi break-in part one (~5,000 miles) and a check up and oil change at the dealer.

    This 2014 Audi S4 is like every other Audi I've had since 1977 -- you end up getting a new car (on the day you pick it up) and then you get another "new car" at 5,000 and around 10,000 miles as the engine seems to really get stronger and stronger.

    We've had the worst winter here in SW Ohio in what seems like decades (some local weather types have said this has been one of our worst in over 20 years) and I felt no need to swap tires. The all-seasons that the car came with had zero problems.

    My wife's SQ5 (purchased about 6 weeks or so after my S4) has 20" Continental Extreme DWS all seasons (UHP too) and she's has no traction issues either. I watch the man screaming QUATTRO!!!! on the commercial told from the POV of a tow-truck driver and we are living proof of the prowess of the quattro AWD system.

    Sweendogy, I suspect there isn't too much different between your 2013 S4 and my '14, other than the fact that you were able to pay less -- I hope your car is under warranty and is CPO'd, which should at least provide you with the peace of mind (financially) you want. I'll bet any repairs on an S4 out of warranty will be breathtakingly expensive (shudder.)

    I finally saw my first SQ5 (other than my wife's) a couple of days ago -- and, finally, finally, saw my first Q50 at long last. Boy, the sales on that one must be slow; I've seen several Lexus IS's though, making me think that one has been a heckuva lot more successful in the market.

    The new TLX (show car) actually seems pretty attractive -- although I don't really miss my '12 TL, I don't have any real complaints about it now that it's gone -- the S4 is a totally different experience, but, to my dying day, I do think Acura's TL SH-AWD was their version of an S4 (for a lot less $).

    I sat in an S6 at the dealer recently -- now that may be my new Batmobile -- but, hey, for $80,000+ it ought to be.

    Anyone have the sales figures for 2013 and so far in 2014 for our list of ELLPS cars?

    I'd love to see how the IS, Q50, TL, A4/S4, etc did and are selling.

    Drive it like you live. ;)

  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310

    Mark - from my understanding the 14 s4 came with standard smart key access and maybe on other item items - on reliability I know audi has gotten way better, but as of right now I have plenty of warrantee ahead.

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    edited February 2014

    The ONLY Audi I had that really, truly SCARED me, with respect to reliability, durability and co$t to keep post-warranty, was my 1997 A8. The thing, in warranty thankfully, kept having failure after failure of "little and medium" components. I didn't have engine or transmission problems, but I suspect things like the motors (and it had a bunch of them) that controlled the seats, seat belt height and on and on, just kept failing (and being replaced again and again.)

    My subsequent Audi was a 2000 A6 4.2, which had brake rotor issues -- but nothing else other than routine mntce to speak of; same thing with my 2001 A6 4.2, brake rotors and everything else was solid.

    Since then, my 2003 allroad, 2005 A6 3.2, 2009 A4 2.0T and my current 2014 S4 all seemed to me (pretty early on the S4 though) to be reliable. My 2005 A6, which I kept to about 66,000 miles as I recall, also would make me say "durable." Yet, these days with several of the Japanese maker's cars easily going 150,000 miles with "routine" mntce, 66K miles hardly is proof positive.

    One of the people I work with has a 2005 BMW 5 series and he did buy the extended SERVICE package when he purchased the car new. This was NOT a warranty -- just an extended "factory" mntce policy. After 50K miles, these German cars often require wholesale replacement of "stuff" in the name of service (maintenance, i.e.)

    Audi, too, offers extended mntce (for a price) and there is some procedure you can go through to get your own car CPO'd (again, for a price) which takes the warranty to 100,000 miles (up to 6 years from first date of use). After 100K miles, however, you're on your own.

    Here is the thing my friend has found with his BMW -- with his extended service contract in hand, he was able to have a fully paid off car with no added service charges for about 2 years. Then, after the service contract died, he did have some on-going (fairly expensive) service or repairs (it is hard to know, sometimes what is "broken" and what is just "time to replace"), but the cost of the repairs at MAX was $1,400 and typically was $100-$300 -- and didn't actually happen frequently. So, the cost of having a very well maintained, comfortable, good performing 2005 5 series was, at most, $2,000 in one year, typically half that.

    When I get in his 2005 BMW, I can tell it isn't as up to date (with respect to the electronics for instance) as a 2014 Audi S4, but overall it is still clearly a very nice performance/luxury car that when detailed looks in near showroom condition and is cheap to own.

    I'm looking forward to the latter -- even though I do love to keep up with all the new-tech.

    I'm driving my wife's 2014 SQ5 Prestige today -- wow, in some respects I like it better than my S4! Of course the S4 has the S-tronic transmission which has to be driven to be believed.

    DILYL

  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,368

    @markcincinnati said:
    The ONLY Audi I had that really, truly SCARED me, with respect to reliability, durability and co$t to keep post-warranty, was my 1997 A8.

    I'd be afraid of any of those top-of the line Eurocars out of warranty too. The complex systems always turn up on the A8s, 7ers and S-Classes before they migrate to lesser models. Apparently by the time they go downscale they're pretty much de-bugged. I'm on my third out-of-warranty German car including a 5 Series that now has 150K on it and has only had one expensive failure (Vanos Control Module- $1200). I could be wrong about all this but I've been driving nice cars for the cost of run-of-the mill ones for a decade and a half..

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    there's a BIG difference when it's been YOUR car for 150K, and when it's been someone else's for 150K.

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312

    I lucked out, the VANOS solenoids on my wife's 2009 328i went south but the CPO warranty covered it for $50. The DISA valve died at 159K on the 2004 X3, but at that age and mileage you have to expect a hiccup every so often. For some reason I like the X3 more than the 328i, which is atypical since my other favorites are my '02 and Club Sport...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373

    @roadburner

    What happened? How'd you know there was something wrong? Limp mode? Car wouldn't start?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805

    So the debate shall start. Is this:

    an ELLPS??

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,432

    no. Fails at least one of the letters. But I kind of like it anyway!

    That a variation of the upcoming 1 series FWD?

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312

    @nyccarguy: The car was throwing a CEL every so often. No driveability issues. There's a TSB for the issue and it calls for an oil change so I got that for "free." While it was in the CBS said the car also needed new plugs(plugs used to be a 100K service item- oh well...) AND-as recent slow cranking suggested-the battery was shot. With the IBS you are pretty much locked in to a BMW battery so I bit the bullet and had the dealer do it. At least I should be good for at least another five years/57K on both the new plugs and battery. Driving away the DCT fault light came on. Turns out the steering angle sensor didn't initialize after the battery swap. Ten minutes later my tech beat it into submission and we had no issues after that.
    If you haven't guessed, this incident-along with BMW's rush to convert most every vehicle in their lineup into a soulless Germanic Lexus-is what has caused me to seriously consider finding another 1988 M6 to share the garage with the Club Sport. Grab a used Abarth/GTI/MCS JCW for a commuter sled/winter beater and I'm all set.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312

    @robr2 said:
    So the debate shall start. Is this:

    an ELLPS??

    I treat the FWD BMW like many Porsche True Believers treat the Cayenne and Panamera. I don't like it and would never consider one, but if it keeps Munich solvent and raises their CAFE average enough to let them turn out decent RWD ///M cars then I will forgive them their heresy...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,368
    edited February 2014

    Roadburner you're exactly right, this isn't the BMW for lovers of RWD but we have plenty of terrific cars available to us that do feature RWD. We also need to understand that BMW is a wsorldwide maker/seller of cars that happens to be based in Europe. In the European market 5-door "family sized" hatches are as common as pickups are in North America.

    The Active Tourer will be sold in the USA and I'd bet most will be AWD versions, in fact I might consider one of those.

    There's also a lot of moaning among the hard core Propellerheads that BMW shouldn't be making a "minivan" but with a 105" wheelbase the Active Tourer is considerably shorter than the smallest Minivan on the US market, the Mazda 5 (@108"). In fact it has a shorter wb than my E46 Cabrio (107"). By US standards this is a subcompact hatchback.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805

    @stickguy said:
    no. Fails at least one of the letters. But I kind of like it anyway!
    That a variation of the upcoming 1 series FWD?

    It's being marketed now as a 2 series. Yeah I don't get why they've chosen to add a FWD MPV to the 2 series line.

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665

    Gotta say.....I came "that close" to buying the BMW X1 35ix. It really did fit my needs. And, I liked the feel of it (very, very similar to my E92) with more utility. BMW needs some help with their seats, though. Just couldn't get comfortable in it.

    Also, really like what I'm reading about the M235i.

    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217

    Simple, to help meet the new Café numbers. I'm simply amazed that my 3 series get's 33 on the highway, doing 85 with the AC on, For the last couple of weeks I have been driving between Phoenix and San Diego, and this is what I averaging. The EPA rated my car at 36 on the highway...

    The picture is the new Active Tourer and it sells very well in other markets, over on Bimmerfest, like any other BMW forum there are two camps, one that love it and other is they hate it. MB has wanted to being over their B class but wasn't too sure how the US would receive it, the B class is sort of like the active tourer..

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,432

    I love it. Would fit my needs perfectly most likely. Of course my favorite car from the auto show was the 2015 golf they had (euro model TDI stick). I loved it. Perfect package with an AT and 1.8t engine. So I may be predisposed toward liking this BMW

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,432

    I did sit in a CLA too. Way too cramped. I had to contort to get in the back seat and also felt squeezed in the front. Visibility was terrible too. Truly firm over function.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805

    @flightnurse said:
    The picture is the new Active Tourer and it sells very well in other markets, over on
    Bimmerfest, like any other BMW forum there are two camps, one that love it and other is they
    hate it. MB has wanted to being over their B class but wasn't too sure how the US would
    receive it, the B class is sort of like the active tourer.

    The Active Tourer isn't on sale anywhere yet - it's a brand new model and category BMW will be offering for the 2015 model year.

    The MB B class is coming but as an EV only in North America. It is expected in the 2nd quarter.

  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217

    @graphicguy said:
    Gotta say.....I came "that close" to buying the BMW X1 35ix. It really did fit my needs. And, I liked the feel of it (very, very similar to my E92) with more utility. BMW needs some help with their seats, though. Just couldn't get comfortable in it.

    Also, really like what I'm reading about the M235i.

    The X1 35 is a hot little SUV and you can add the Performance package to it for and added kick..

    The M235i is being billed at the savior of the "Ultimate Driving Machine." The specs of the M235i are VERY close to the E46 M3 including price but the M235i is faster then what the M3 was. Dealer have been to take orders for the 2 series since Jan and delivery of them are to start the middle of march. Graphic I'm with you, the M235i seems to be the savior for the true BMW fan, I want to drive one before I make a move...

  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217

    @robr2 said:
    The MB B class is coming but as an EV only in North America. It is expected in the 2nd quarter.

    My bad, when I read the press release I miss read that it was in Europe already, but I see that it says it will launch in Europe first..

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665

    @flightnurse said:
    The M235i is being billed at the savior of the "Ultimate Driving Machine." The specs of the M235i are VERY close to the E46 M3 including price but the M235i is faster then what the M3 was. Dealer have been to take orders for the 2 series since Jan and delivery of them are to start the middle of march. Graphic I'm with you, the M235i seems to be the savior for the true BMW fan, I want to drive one before I make a move...

    FN...agree. I'll have to drive one first. And, I'm bound and determined to keep my current whip at least 3 years. So, that will be a little further down the road for me if I decide I like it.

    With the sports package, that looks to be a really, really fun car, for a lot less than a 3 series with the same drivetrain.

    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217

    @graphicguy said:

    Graphic the M235i doesn't have a sport package, The M235i has an enhanced M package, and extra HP... It's truly going to be a good car but of course with the a little help from aftermarket guys the 320hp is only the start, I'm sure 400hp is easily attainable with very little cash outlay. So for under 45K someone could have themselves a very nice and very fast car.

  • scwmcanscwmcan Member Posts: 399

    Just a note that the B-class is ( and has been) available up here north of the border in Canada ( and I would also assume south of the border in Mexico) so reall the only place it isn't available in North America is the US.

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,432

    Is that m235 just a renamed version of the current 1series or something new?

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681

    @robr2 said:
    So the debate shall start. Is this:

    an ELLPS??

    There appears to be many new 'entry' level luxury vehicles that I wouldn't consider a luxury vehicle...I saw the Audi A1 driving yesterday...err, not for me.

  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805

    @scwmcan said:
    Just a note that the B-class is ( and has been) available up here north of the border in Canada (
    and I would also assume south of the border in Mexico) so reall the only place it isn't available
    in North America is the US.

    Sorry - I forgot about Canuckistan. Yes you guys have had the B class for a while - I've seen a few in Maine clogging up Old Orchard Beach.

  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805

    @ivan_99 said:
    There appears to be many new 'entry' level luxury vehicles that I wouldn't consider a luxury
    vehicle...I saw the Audi A1 driving yesterday...err, not for me.

    Where did you see an A1?

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665

    FN....thanks for the update.

    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681

    @robr2 said:

    It was in Austin, TX.

    White 2 door. I was going to follow and take a pic because I didn't know they were out...but I was running late.

  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805

    @ivan_99 said:
    White 2 door. I was going to follow and take a pic because I didn't know they were out...but
    I was running late.

    They aren't offered in the US or Canada but are sold in Mexico. Probably a visitor from down south.

  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217

    @stickguy said:
    Is that m235 just a renamed version of the current 1series or something new?

    remember odd numbered cars are sedans and even number cars are coupes. The 2 series is an all new car, bigger then last Gen 1 series.

  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,368

    @stickguy said:
    Is that m235 just a renamed version of the current 1series or something new?

    The M235i is an all new design, a few inches longer than the current 135i. It is said to offer performance nearly equivalent to the 135M and will come in coupe and convertible form.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805

    @flightnurse said:
    remember odd numbered cars are sedans and even number cars are coupes.

    Except the 2 series Active Tourer - there's no way they will convince anyone that's a coupe.

  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217

    @robr2 said:
    Except the 2 series Active Tourer - there's no way they will convince anyone that's a coupe.

    I don't think BMW has officially called this a 2 series. With all that BMW has put into renaming their cars and such, I don't see this staying a "2" series.

  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217

    @andys120 said:
    The M235i is an all new design, a few inches longer than the current 135i. It is said to offer performance nearly equivalent to the 135M and will come in coupe and convertible form.

    If you look at the specs of the M235i they are very close to a E46 M3, it's within an inch in almost every direction...

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665

    Looks like I'm going to HAVE TO ATTEND the next BMW Drive Event to see if the M235i is sitting at my dealer's showroom.

    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
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