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What Car is Right For Me? Help Me Choose!

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  • biker4biker4 Member Posts: 746

    ^ I think the assumption that you'll spend $1000/yr on a used car is all wrong. Who would buy such a car in the first place? Yes, the maintenance might be a bit more than new, but not $1000/yr more. You want to get a car in the sweet spot of its reliability 80-120K vs. depreciation.

    You could buy a 10 yr old Mazda 3, drive it for 2 years and resell for about the same money and not spend any on maintenance. You could do the same with a Civic but you'll have more money tied up since resale values are higher on the Civic.

    The only way a new car is "cheaper" than used is if you do an apples-oranges comparison.
    In 2009 I bought a 2006 TSX for $18,500 (a car that stickered for $31K). Five years later it is still worth $10,000K and I spent zero more than I would have on a brand new car.

    What you want to find is a private party sale (dealer mark up negates a lot of the savings) on a model that has good reliability ratings but has high depreciation.

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949

    @biker4 said:
    You could buy a 10 yr old Mazda 3, drive it for 2 years and resell for about the same money and not spend any on maintenance. You could do the same with a Civic but you'll have more money tied up since resale values are higher on the Civic.

    Yes, if you're _really _lucky, you could buy a 10-year-old Mazda3 or Civic and not spend any money on maintenance in 2 years. But you're just as likely if not more likely to spend some bucks in those two years. A 10-year-old car will have 120k-150k miles on average. At that age and mileage, lots of stuff can fail or wear out... brakes, cat converters, struts, alternators, fuel pumps, electronics, ignition coils, clutches, even auto trannies if you're real unlucky.

    I bought an 8-year-old Mazda6 this past summer. It seemed to be in great condition, well treated and maintained by its lone owner. I've already spent $1000 in repairs on it, for a failed alternator, fuel pump, and rear hatch struts. And those fuel pumps are pricey buggers!

    With a 10-year-old car, expect that anything can fail at any time, and budget accordingly.

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,175

    Hard to make the case that a new car is cheaper, but $1000/yr for repairs/maintenance is about right for an old car, I think..

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  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    edited January 2014

    Well, I still think the math I did above makes some sense. It reflects my real world experience, anyway, of the what I perceive to be the false economy of used vs. new in the long run.

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • johnvantinejohnvantine Member Posts: 5

    Well this certainly gave me more to think about, as I wasn't even considering a new vehicle before. Thanks you!

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    edited January 2014

    @johnvantine said:
    Well this certainly gave me more to think about, as I wasn't even considering a new vehicle before. Thank you!

    You're welcome!

    And, as I said, it really is true to my experience. From the early 1990s until the 2008 I owned a series of used cars that I got from my family or bought, including an old Chevy, a 1987 VW Jetta, and a 1988 Oldsmobile 98. Those old cars were in the shop all the time, not only costing a lot of money, but a lot of wasted time, stress, and aggravation.

    When I added all of my maintenance and repair receipts up, and combined that with the purchase prices, I realized that if I could have gone back in time I would have been much better off in every way if, back in the early 1990s, I just got myself a new Civic or even a base Accord.

    Anyway, good luck. And no matter which way you go, hope you'll update us.

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 4,676

    I've had pretty good luck buying used. Key is to get a model known for reliability and have it thoroughly checked out.

    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311

    johnvantine: If you decide to consider new, in addition to the Mazda3 you might consider the Honda Civic. There are still some 2013 models of the Civic left on the Honda lots around the country, and you might be able to get c. $1500 off of the list price plus get 0.9% from Honda for 5 years. The Civic gets slightly lower mpg at 32 combined than the Mazda3, which gets 34 mpg combined. That translates into a difference of only about $100 a year.

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • biker4biker4 Member Posts: 746

    Just remember, if you consider getting a new car - if you can't pay cash for it you can't afford it.

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    edited January 2014

    I have a different point of view than biker4. Over time, cars are often our biggest expense in life, right after housing. Paying over time allows you to get a better car that will last longer. If someone has saved c. $5000, at this point that will probably only buy a so-so used car, and, as people have said, you're likely to have repairs and maintenance of c. $1000 a year. And then in c. 5 years or so, you might need to start the process all over again.

    But if you can buy a good new car, and finance it over 5 years, you might not need another car for a long as 10 years.

    Low interest financing allows the purchase of a decent car that will last longer. Some people are well enough off to pay cash for their new car up front. I was even fortunate enough to be in that situation the last time I got a car, but I decided instead to pay about half with my trade in and cash, and finance the other half with Honda at 1.9%.

    In this economy, a lot of people don't have the whole purchase price up front, but a reasonable new car in relation to income can still make a lot of economic sense in the long run imho.

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949

    The last car loan I took out, this summer, was at 1.9%. At that kind of interest rate, I would rather invest my money in my IRA or 401K and use the bank's money for a car.

  • fushigifushigi Member Posts: 1,459

    @benjaminh said:
    I have a different point of view than biker4. Over time, cars are often our biggest expense in life, right after housing. Paying over time allows you to get a better car that will last longer. If someone has saved c. $5000, at this point that will probably only buy a so-so used car, and, as people have said, you're likely to have repairs and maintenance of c. $1000 a year. And then in c. 5 years or so, you might need to start the process all over again.

    But if you can buy a good new car, and finance it over 5 years, you might not need another car for a long as 10 years.

    Low interest financing allows the purchase of a decent car that will last longer. Some people are well enough off to pay cash for their new car up front. I was even fortunate enough to be in that situation the last time I got a car, but I decided instead to pay about half with my trade in and cash, and finance the other half with Honda at 1.9%.

    In this economy, a lot of people don't have the whole purchase price up front, but a reasonable new car in relation to income can still make a lot of economic sense in the long run imho.

    Agreed. Over the last 20 years I've bought 3 new cars and have had payments for 11 of the 20 years. I have 1 more year of payments on my current car and after that I'll again be payment-free for awhile. As I've bought reliable cars overall, my repair expenses have been roughly one more year's worth of payments. So by the end of this year I'll have made car payments for roughly 13 of 21 years, including repairs.

    There's also my brother's tactic: Buy a car (new or used) and pay it off. When you're done paying it off, as you're budget is used to the payments, keep making them to a savings/investment account. Use the fund to cover repairs or the purchase of your next car. My brother is always making payments but he's making them to himself & buys his cars from the fund and has no need to finance any more. It helps that he doesn't live beyond his means; i.e. he's driving standard compact or midsize sedans v. a luxury brand.

    2017 Infiniti QX60 (me), 2012 Hyundai Elantra (wife)
  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 4,676

    A great tactic for those who are assured of a steady, permanent job. Unfortunately, too many people do not have that fortunate circumstance, particularly many who are looking at used cars.

    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311

    I have a relative who is considering getting an Audi Q5 turbo diesel. Another vehicle under consideration is the BMW 328d xDrive. What's the long-term reliability like for European diesels these days?

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516

    @benjaminh said:
    I have a relative who is considering getting an Audi Q5 turbo diesel. Another vehicle under consideration is the BMW 328d xDrive. What's the long-term reliability like for European diesels these days?

    The engines themselves should be ok. It's everything else that breaks down and malfunctions like electronics and computers. If it's a vehicle your relative really likes and plans on keeping for a long time, then they should budget for an extended warranty that covers everything, for as long as they can as repairs won't be cheap.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    edited February 2014

    This is why a base model car with a manual transmission (if you can get one that's not a tin can or stripped to nothing these days) is your best bet for frugal driving. Often you can get some very nice cars for not a lot of money like this. The Chevy Cruze comes to mind immediately. It's meh with automatic - just doesn't stand out at all, but manual makes it a blast to drive. Even the humble little Honda Fit is transformed into a much better car.

    Something like a BMW? Game-changing. Inexpensive, nothing to break, and drives like a video game. Diesel just makes it even better.

  • scotty49scotty49 Member Posts: 3

    Looking for a source of info (reliability, power, quietness) for 2014 Buick Verano, Chevy Malibu and Ford Fusion.
    Looking for a car that is quiet, and power for mountain driving. I drove a Malibu LTZ, and found it a little noisy and a little weak on power at 7500-8500 feet pass climbing, but acceptable. Trying to get ideas of other cars to compare with. I consider all three cars very nice inside and outside, but any other ideas on a $25,000 car to look at would be appreciated.

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311

    The Accord LX auto has an msrp of c.$23,545 and you should be able to get a discount of about $2000 pretty easily. Worth a test drive imho. The LX has a lot of stuff standard that just a few years ago were only on higher end models, like: back up camera, dual zone climate control, direct injected engine, bluetooth, etc. Plus the Accord has the highest safety ratings on the small offset crash test of any midsize car.

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • gmcustsvcgmcustsvc Member Posts: 4,252

    @scotty49 said:
    Looking for a source of info (reliability, power, quietness) for 2014 Buick Verano, Chevy Malibu and Ford Fusion.
    Looking for a car that is quiet, and power for mountain driving. I drove a Malibu LTZ, and found it a little noisy and a little weak on power at 7500-8500 feet pass climbing, but acceptable. Trying to get ideas of other cars to compare with. I consider all three cars very nice inside and outside, but any other ideas on a $25,000 car to look at would be appreciated.

    Hey scotty49,

    The Verano is perfect for power as well as luxury. It gets 32 mpg hwy so that means fewer fill ups. The StabiliTrak is the very best so you're in control when it comes to maneuvering. It's also equipped with a 2.0L ECOTEC turbo engine with 250 horsepower.

    The Malibu is still a great vehicle to consider still! Let us know if you have any more questions in regarding the Verano or Malibu.

    Regards,
    Patsy G
    GM Customer Care

  • biker4biker4 Member Posts: 746

    The Verano is smaller than the other two and likely to be more expensive, but will check all three of your criteria. You might be able to get an Acura TSX with a discount in the same ballpark. The Acura ILX is a direct competitor to the Verano but it's down on power (but much better on gas mileage).

  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738

    @scotty49 said:
    Looking for a source of info (reliability, power, quietness) for 2014 Buick Verano, Chevy Malibu and Ford Fusion.
    Looking for a car that is quiet, and power for mountain driving. I drove a Malibu LTZ, and found it a little noisy and a
    little weak on power at 7500-8500 feet pass climbing, but acceptable. Trying to get ideas of other cars to compare
    with. I consider all three cars very nice inside and outside, but any other ideas on a $25,000 car to look at would be appreciated.

    I looked at the Ford Fusion and while it was a nice car, the problem was that it lacked that extra bit that made it fun.

    I ended up buying a 2104 Mustang. Best decision I ever made in buying a car other than my 1967 Mercedes (still miss that car). 305HP, RWD, great power, even at high elevations, and the best thing of all was the insane price that I got it for.

    Seriously consider manual. Automatic is also fine, but manual is a blast to drive.

    Get it in any case as a base model. You don't want the extra bling or pleather or most of all, that Ford Sync nonsense. Keep it simple. If you do want to add something, only add the Ruby Red or Got to Have it Green paint as it makes the car look much better (three stage pearlescent paint for only a few hundred more is a no-brainer).

    • Mustang V6: $23420
      Actual selling price: $18748 (Truecar, Los Angeles area - $19K is common all over the U.S.)

    To put that in perspective, that's $2000 more than a base model Corolla with nothing on it.
    I get 24mpg combined in heavy rush hour traffic. 30 on the highway for long trips is actually possible. And when you need to move, it has the same power to weight ratio as a Audi A4 or a Cadillac CTS. ie - it absolutely flies. Handling is also worlds better than the Fusion. The Fusion is a nice car, but it doesn't make you love to drive it.

    And it's quiet, too. Surprisingly so. It's probably the most refined V6 Ford's ever made.

    Next year's model will be selling for MSRP due to demand, so the value will be on the outgoing 2014s.

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311

    plekto: Wow, that is a great price. Congrats on your purchase. Sounds like a very fun ride. Can you post a few pix? How is the clutch?

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 4,676

    But totally unhelpful to the poster.

    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738

    I think it's perfectly fair. The original poster did mention the Fusion but also mentioned that he lived at very high elevations and needed more power. I test drove the Fusion at the time and it was a very nice car. It really was. But the Mustang simply stole my heart. It's just built better and goes faster and is much better handling. For less money. 130 more HP also was more than noticeable. I drive a stretch of mountain road every day to work and a Malibu or Verano or similar is OK. But it doesn't fly up the road. Not even close.

    The clutch is fantastic. The shifter is a bit notchy, but that's part of its charm. It feels just that tiny bit crude and unrefined like you'd expect a sporty car to be. But it's all a very nice illusion, really. It handles great and is very smooth. They've done a great job at making it feel like a muscle car without actually driving like one. It hums along like any other car on the highway. Until you hit the gas hard and it roars to life, that is :)

    Go drive the Fusion and the Mustang, even with both having automatic, and the choice becomes a lot clearer.

    Plus, as a bonus, the Mustang and Fusion are built by UAW labor. They take immense pride in what they build at that plant in Flat Rock, MI. as it's one of the last "Big 3" facilities in the U.S. GM has moved almost everything to Mexico and Canada. Even if you don't buy a Mustang, at least don't buy a GM. Too much baggage at this point.

  • scotty49scotty49 Member Posts: 3

    Thanks for the info. Would like a manual, but have pinned and plated left heel and ankle.that sometimes causes extreme and sharp pain if I push on it just right. Front wheel drive is also desirable because of snow and ice.

  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 4,676

    This person pretty much recommends a Mustang or Crown Vic for everyone no matter what they are looking for. What is your budget for a vehicle? Do you want mid-sized? If you will consistently be in mountain driving I think a 6 cyl. will serve you best. We had a Nissan Maxima that sailed over mountains with ease. It wasn't the greatest in snow but did well enough for the kind of winters we have. If snow is a factor consider a Subaru Legacy or the smaller Impreza for all wheel drive. If there is only sometime snow you might look at the Honda Accord, either 6 or 4 cyl. We travel over the Eastern mountains quite often and our 4cyl Accord does just fine. Knowing your driving parameters will help. Have you driven Malibu, Fusion, and Verano yet?

    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738

    I've actually recommended dozens of cars over the years. About the only thing I don't recommend is GM stuff as it's as bland and soulless as a Toyota. And half as reliable. If you want a small rocket to get over mountains and that also is FWD, you might also consider a Mini. If you have more money, a couple of year old A4 or C class is also a great option. But upkeep is a bit rude on most of the entry-level luxury cars.

    As for myself, my final choice came down to a Fusion, a Mustang, and a Mini. I decided that bling was meaningless as it was primarily for driving to work and back. Note - if I had 5K more on my possible loan, I'd have bought C class with manual a couple of years old. The Mustang is nice, but it is a cheapskate car. Loads of fun, an amazing deal for the money, but no, it's not in the league of a BMW or Mercedes. It shouldn't be for $20K.

  • digitydigity Member Posts: 5

    I'm looking for something fun to drive, used, but not too high of mileage, good fuel economy, and under $7000. I really don't care about the age as long as I can fit comfortably (I'm 6' 2') and can install an aftermarket radio unit (and replace speakers). I'm hoping for a coupe or hatchback/5 door over a sedan (but sedan is okay). Definitely want to stay away from big cars (Acura RL and Chrysler 300 are my last two cars).

    Thanks!

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311

    Hi digity: Welcome!

    For a hatchback for around $7k, I'd recommend a c. 2007 Mazda3 hatchback. If you can find one in good condition with maybe c. 80,000 miles, it might go for about that much. Mazdas are usually fairly reliable.

    But, you might also consider buying new. If you buy a c. 7 year old used car now, you'll have increasing bills for maintenance and repair. And if, when the car is about 12 years old and has c. 140,000, it needs so many repairs that you're back on the market for another used car, you might not come out ahead in the long run over new.

    With a small downpayment, and low financing provided by the dealer, you might consider buying a new Mazda3, Honda Civic, or similar. A new car, obviously, will only need routine maintenance like oil changes for quite some time. And, with good maintenance a little luck, it should go for c. 10 years and c. 100,000 miles without needing much.

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    edited March 2014

    digity: Here's another suggestion. Right now there's an oversupply nationwide of new midsize cars, and so a "price war" has broken out. In my market of Louisville, the following midsize cars are being advertised for sale for c. $19,000 with 0% financing: Nissan Altima, Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry. I'm a Honda man myself, but the Accord costs about $2000 more, and so if you're on a tight budget it's hard to beat the "extra value meal" found in, say, an Altima.

    And a new Altima, believe it or not, gets significantly higher mpg than a 7 year old Mazda3. It's also a lot safer. And believe me, Nissan, or Hyundai, or Toyota will try to work with you to make it possible for you to drive one starting today, should you choose.

    To get the lowest price,look at the newspaper ads, or the online dealer specials, or just send them an email and ask what the lowest price would be for a base model, and ask what financing they have. With competitive quotes you probably will get close to the 19k that these cars are selling for in my city....Just a thought.

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685

    Another good used hatch would be a Honda Fit. I 'fit', and I'm 6'5".

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949

    For a coupe, try the Civic. They tend to be a little less expensive than the sedans. For pre-2006, try to get an EX, as those come with ABS (also a moonroof).

    For an inexpensive hatch, if you can find a 2004-6 Elantra GT in good condition, that is a very nice car for those years. They can be had with ABS (and moonroof) but those are fairly rare. I have a 10-year-old GT and it's held up very well over 10 Minnesota winters and nearly 100k miles. It's also roomy for a compact, actually is rated mid-sized in interior volume. And has a fold-flat rear seat so can hold a lot of cargo.

    Both the Civic and Elantra use a standard DIN slot for radio, so should be easy to replace.

    @digity said:
    I'm looking for something fun to drive, used, but not too high of mileage, good fuel economy, and under $7000. I really don't care about the age as long as I can fit comfortably (I'm 6' 2') and can install an aftermarket radio unit (and replace speakers). I'm hoping for a coupe or hatchback/5 door over a sedan (but sedan is okay). Definitely want to stay away from big cars (Acura RL and Chrysler 300 are my last two cars).

    Thanks!

  • digitydigity Member Posts: 5

    Interesting (the whole buying new versus old)... the thing is we're already set on buying the 2014/5 MDX as our primary vehicle since we're starting a family and we don't want two car payments.

    This second car (I'm posting about) would be just for me and one of my top priorities is that it's fun to drive.... and that I need it to get me to and from clients around the region once or twice a week. I don't plan on keeping it more than a couple years as this is just a placeholder car until I decide how selfish I want to be with a growing family (I'm eyeing the BRZ or Model S as my next real car).

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949

    Since you're driving clients in it, another fun-to-drive hatch that can be had for under $7k is the Mazda6 hatch. Plenty of room for 4 adults, fun to drive, good looking (IMO), hauls a lot of stuff (fold-flat rear seat). Can get it with a stick, even a V6 + stick, but sticks are rare. Would be a better car to haul clients in than a Civic or Elantra (or Fit). I'd stay away from coupes if I were you if you have to haul clients in the back seat. Mazda6 doesn't have as good of fuel economy as the smaller cars, but if you're only using it 1-2 times a week, a few mpg might not make a big difference.

  • digitydigity Member Posts: 5

    Mazda and Hyundai... interesting. Also, I'm not driving clients around - just driving to and from their offices.

    Thanks for the recommendations!

  • digitydigity Member Posts: 5

    Hmmm... I notice no recommendations for Subaru Impreza WRX or similar... Are they not fun to drive?

  • digitydigity Member Posts: 5

    Never mind. I see them starting at $11,500 for an 2006. Yikes!

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    edited March 2014

    You can currently case lease a new Mini Cooper for c. $179 a month. With downpayment I think it comes to c. $8000 over 3 years, which is close to your budget.

    Or, a new Honda Fit Hatchback can be leased for c. $149 a month for 3 years, which with downpayment comes to about $7000.

    Each of these models is about to have an all-new model introduced, which is probably why lease rates are relatively low.

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738

    Clients adds a whole other level to the mix. I'd actually go older and (semi) classic, then. Something like a mint condition BMW 318ti or Mercedes C230K similar (with manual) would be a good choice and you'd have enough money left over to keep it running.

    http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=39438
    4-5K is typical for something like this. Yes, the rims are a bit ugly, but it's just an example of many out there.

    Note - manual is a must as it's about the only major part of these two cars to go wrong. A broken BMW or Mercedes automatic is a lot of money to fix vs a clutch. And automatic is no conversation piece, either.

  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 4,676

    Since you don't want a car payment (thus a lease is out), probably a used Toyota Corolla or Matrix would have the best fuel economy, least depreciation and most reliability. That's letting go of the fun factor though. Otherwise, a used Elantra or Mazda is probably your best bet.

    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,175

    Pontiac Vibe with a stick... Matrix twin..

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  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 4,676

    Yes, Vibe is cheaper. I have an '04. Can be hard to find though.

    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • vseth96vseth96 Member Posts: 3

    How's the 2014 Subaru Impreza in your guys' opinions? Anything about the CVT vs. Manual?

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685

    I've not read much positive about the driving character of Subaru's CVTs. Try a test drive and see what you think.

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949

    I've driven both and for me the CVT was much quieter than the 5-speed stick, the engine revved lower and it seemed there was more sound insulation in the CVT model--not sure if that's the case, but it seemed to be. When I drove them, it was a 5-speed anyway--maybe is a 6-speed now, if so that could make a difference. Also, the CVT delivered better FE for me than the 5-speed, and I think that is reflected in the EPA ratings also. The stick was more fun of course, but if I got an Impreza I'd go with the CVT because of lower noise and better FE.

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454

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  • bbqplsbbqpls Member Posts: 2

    I am looking for a new car that has good fuel economy, decent to better acceleration power, good reliability and safety for preferably around or under 17k. I am slightly flexible on price as I have already gotten approved for a loan for 25k at my bank but don't want to actually go that high. I am willing to look into used as well.

    I have had a Honda Civic for the last 11 years and have had a great time with it but feel its time to get a new car. I won't be trading it in but will be giving it to someone. I am not opposed to another Honda but if another choice would serve better, like the Mazda3 hatchback, I'd love to hear it. Also, are certain years better than others in terms of recalls/engineering (such as, maybe to start in '12 of a model because that's where a significant change happened)?

    As an aside, I have had bad experiences at dealerships this last month where I was yelled at across a lot, chased down as I was trying to leave, and had people start swarming my car before I had even finished driving into a parking space. I am leery of entering another lot so narrowed choices would be great.

  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738

    If you like hatchbacks, the Focus is a very nice choice. You can also get good deals and the dealers, well, there's almost no ego there as it's a Ford. You can get a Focus SE hatchback for about $15.5K after rebates. I'd choose the tricoat paint (blue is amazing, red is classy, both will last 3x as long as standard paint, well worth the extra $400) and the handling package. Truecar says that will end up at $16,542.(ie - huge incentives) You actually don't want the extra sync and lighting effects and so on as it's just more to break.

    Just the paint and suspension upgrades.

    I've driven both the Mazda 3 and the Focus and it's a stark difference. The 3 is plastic and very dated in its feel, and especially the interior. The Focus is just better all around until you get the the Mazda Grand Touring, which is better. But at $25K, its just silly money. $16.5K and almost as good is why the Ford gets my vote.

  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 4,676

    I would drive both the new Civic and the Mazda3. Try the Focus too but for reliability I personally prefer Honda and Mazda. Tell dealers that you have not completely narrowed down your choices yet and are interested in a test drive. Not all of them will be badly behaved. Are you more interested in a hatch or a sedan? That will help. Read Consumer Reports Auto issue basic info and to help you narrow down what you are interested in.

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  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949

    If I had that kind of money and was looking for a car as you described, my top choices would be:

    2012+ Mazda3i w/Skyactiv (I think you need a 2013+ to get a hatch with Skyactiv) - get the 6MT for the most fun

    2010+ Golf - again go for the 5MT for more fun. The Golf, made in Germany (at least until the 2015 comes here), has been reliable, and it's fun to drive and has perhaps the nicest interior in the small car class. And it's easy to find one with heated seats, if you live in a cold climate. I'd get a CPO car for the extra warranty, those are pretty easy to find.

    2015 Base Fit - looks like a great little car, although I haven't driven it yet--just looked at it at the auto show. Has a 6MT, although 6th isn't very tall so engine noise could be an issue. The automatic is a CVT, though. Should do very well on crash tests also, given it's Honda's latest design.

    2013+ Elantra GT. Can probably find a used base model for ~$17k, and the 6MT is smooth as is the 6AT. Nice little car, well equipped even in base form e.g. alloys and heated seats are standard. For 2014 it has a more powerful engine, but those will likely cost more than $17k unless you can get a real good deal.

    The Focus SE hatch might be another possibility, but reliability has been poor and the rear seat is pretty tight (although so is the Mazda3's), and it has a 5MT vs. the 6MT on the Mazda3i, Fit, and Elantra GT so I don't see any reason to go with a Focus vs. the others.

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