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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,775

    @explorerx4

    I too bundle my homeowner's & car insurance with Liberty Mutual. It saved me a significant amount of money. Did you get hit with "post-Sandy" premiums? Both my auto & homeowner's insurance went up because "Liberty Mutual had to pay out a lot of claims." Even with the increase, the LM is still cheaper

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,310

    @nyccarguy said:

    I too bundle my homeowner's & car insurance with Liberty Mutual. It saved me a significant amount of money. Did you get hit with "post-Sandy" premiums? Both my auto & homeowner's insurance went up because "Liberty Mutual had to pay out a lot of claims." Even with the increase, the LM is still cheaper

    The only thing L/M told me that I thought was silly was that the Optima 2.4 liter is considered a "high performance engine". When I asked for an explanation, she said that any engine over 200 HP in this class is labeled as such. L/M did eventually cut the $10 surcharge from my premium, but only for the first 6 months to earn my business.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,017

    The 2.4L in the 2014 Optima is rated on the KIA website at 192hp. I thought the original hp rating was 198 and then it was revised. But I do recall that one version of either the Sonata or Optima, maybe the SE, was rated at a couple of extra HP or 200. I would check the fine print with your insurer. If their own rule is "over 200hp", then 200hp shouldn't trigger the surcharge. Too many insurance companies out there to be playing those kind of games IMO.

  • dash5dash5 Posts: 418

    It's time for something new and nothing is speaking to me....

    I'm driving a 2011 Optima SX. I've enjoyed the car but long story short it's time for something else. No rush, but I'm hoping something really gets me excited the way the new Optima did when I got it.

    Anyway. Cars I'm considering: Accord V6, Accord Coupe, Audi A3/A4 possibly S3, MB C Class... even looked at the small crossover SUVs like the new Pathfinder, or a Traverse. Right now I'm really hoping the new Acura TLX fits the bill.

  • ahightowerahightower TXPosts: 503

    Most would not consider Pathfinder or Traverse to be "small". You're all over the board. I've been there. I finally settled on a roomy midsize sedan as the best fit for my needs, budget, etc., and had a lot of fun checking out the competition. TLX does look great to my eye, and presumably Accord-based, it should offer a very good balance of comfort and performance.

  • dash5dash5 Posts: 418
    edited April 1

    Gah meant Cherokee not Pathfinder. And Equinox, not Traverse. Sorry long day I guess... hah.

    But yes I'm all over the place. I'd like something with some pop. My Optima has 274 HP and it moves well. But ultimately I want something maybe a bit quieter on the road, easier on the bumps, same or more power.... that looks cool :)

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 2,118

    @dash5 said: But yes I'm all over the place. I'd like something with some pop. My Optima has 274 HP and it moves well. But ultimately I want something maybe a bit quieter on the road, easier on the bumps, same or more power.... that looks cool :)

    The answer: Buick Regal GS.

    2011 Buick Regal Turbo, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,310
    edited April 1

    @dash5 said: It's time for something new and nothing is speaking to me....

    I'm driving a 2011 Optima SX. I've enjoyed the car but long story short it's time for something else. No rush, but I'm hoping something really gets me excited the way the new Optima did when I got it.

    Anyway. Cars I'm considering: Accord V6, Accord Coupe, Audi A3/A4 possibly S3, MB C Class... even looked at the small crossover SUVs like the new Pathfinder, or a Traverse. Right now I'm really hoping the new Acura TLX fits the bill.

    If you are considering Audi, they are some of the most satisfying drivers cars on earth. I read all the magazines, and the Audi's are winning 95% of the comparos. Usually against BMW. It used to be the other way around. I would look at the A3,A4,A5, and also the Q5 if you decide a CUV is the answer. If you decide to stay at $35,000, BMW makes a less well known 328X1. It is a small CUV, but has the 240 HP turbo 4, and will fit all your stuff too. The new Mercedes CLA class is a nice little car too, also around $35,000.

    On the other end of the spectrum, the Accord and the Mazda 6 are great driving cars, but you are used to a 274 hp turbo 4, so the Mazda will not be quick in comparison. Accord and Passat have great V6 engines. Tough choices. Thanks for posting!

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,310
    edited April 2

    @m6user said: The 2.4L in the 2014 Optima is rated on the KIA website at 192hp. I thought the original hp rating was 198 and then it was revised. But I do recall that one version of either the Sonata or Optima, maybe the SE, was rated at a couple of extra HP or 200. I would check the fine print with your insurer. If their own rule is "over 200hp", then 200hp shouldn't trigger the surcharge. Too many insurance companies out there to be playing those kind of games IMO.

    The original 2011 Sonata with single exhaust had 198hp. Adding dual exhaust added 2hp for a total of 200. All Kia Optima models have dual exhaust, and the rating was definitely 200 hp, and 186 lb Ft.

    http://www.edmunds.com/kia/optima/2012/?style=101415931&ps=used&sub=sedan#specs-pod-anchor

    That is until this model year.

    http://vehicles.automobilemag.com/am/99/2014/kia/optima/ex_sedan/670/specifications.html

    Kia very quietly reduced the HP rating on the 2014 2.4 liter to 192, and the torque at 181. ALSO, the MPG is now 23/34, but on my sticker was 24/35.

    I believe I have found the answer! Just 5 seconds ago I re-read the specs on the 2012 and found this under "Powertrains and Performance" from the Edmunds 2012 review URL above:

    "In California-emissions states, the Optima has a Super Ultra Low Emissions rating (versus Ultra-Low elsewhere) resulting in a lower power output of 192 hp and 181 lb-ft."

    So either they post the SULEV specs from California Optima's, or Kia just builds all of them to SULEV specs starting in 2014.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • dash5dash5 Posts: 418

    @ab348 said:The answer: Buick Regal GS.

    The Buick was my runner up in 2011. Definitely warrants a test drive yes. Good point.

  • dash5dash5 Posts: 418

    @cski said: I would look at the A3,A4,A5, and also the Q5 if you decide a CUV is the answer.

    All definitely on my list, including the Q5. I personally prefer Audi over the BMW's. I love the Audi interiors and while I'm sure BMW's are great drivers cars, for the driving I do it really wouldn't be on display. I have a 12 mile round trip commute on back roads. All my zooming is on the highway on weekends, accelerating in a straight line after going through an EZPass lane. BMW interiors are kinda blah to my eye, too.

    Speaking of interiors, I love the Lexus IS350 interior. Too bad the exterior kinda kills it for me. It's the reverse for the Cadillac ATS, great exterior, not feeling the inside. Maybe I'm too picky ;)

    The 2015 Mercedes C-Class looks like it might be a real winner, but now we're getting north of 50k which is hard to justify.

    So all in all, I am going to wait to see how the Acura TLX shakes out. Test drive a Regal. An A3. And sit in a fully loaded Accord V6. See what I think.

    OH, and for yet another curve ball... anyone else love the new Mustang? Wow. Nice inside and out. I can fit my kids in the back seats... right? ;)

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,283
    edited April 2

    You mean the new-new Mustang 2015? 4 cylinders but 305 HP !

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • dash5dash5 Posts: 418
    edited April 2

    @MrShift@Edmunds‌ Yup the new new, 2015. That EcoBoost engine in very intriguing! 305HP and 300 ft/lb torque! And it looks amazing inside and out... plus independent rear suspension which is a plus in my book.
    http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2891/12801567433_a00da39574_o.jpg

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,724

    It's amazing how much different (and better) the 2015 mustang looks even though the changes are fairly subtle if you compare them side by side.

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,902

    @akirby said: It's amazing how much different (and better) the 2015 mustang looks even though the changes are fairly subtle if you compare them side by side.

    Well, I would look a lot different, and worse, if you moved one of my eyes down 1/2 inch. Subtle, but meaningful!

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  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,447

    The way ecoboost has been working for Ford lately I doubt that turbo 4 will be faster than the V-6 and will probably use just about as much gas in the real world.

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,785

    March midsize sales....

    Camry 41,953

    Altima 35,921

    Accord 33,962

    Fusion 32,963

    Sonata 19,248

    Malibu 18,866

    Optima 16,310

    Passat 11,050

    Avenger 8,756

    200 7,531

    Mazda6 5,730

    Legacy 3,234

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,785

    Nissan and Toyota have upped the incentives. In my city of Louisville, KY, Camrys and Altimas can be had for $4-5K off of msrp. Same with the Sonata. Compare that to maybe $2-3k off msrp for the Accord. Honda is up against the tough reality that the competition is willing to "give away" midsize cars.....

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,785
    edited April 3

    The warmer weather really is helping sales too. If you take the c. 42,000 Camrys sold last month and multiply by 12, that's annual sales rate of slightly more than 500,000 cars, which is about how many Toyota can build in a year. Even Honda was selling at an annual rate of 407,000, which is about their capacity too. But for months during the winter everyone sold below capacity, and so a big backlog has been built up....

  • ahightowerahightower TXPosts: 503
    edited April 3

    Glad to see TMV for the Accord has not gone down since the incentives have added up in the market generally. About $150 below invoice, which is where I bought mine last summer. One reason I went with the "obvious" choice, although it was less adventurous/beautiful than the Mazda6, and less of a screaming bargain than an Optima, it's proven a safe bet in terms of holding its value. (Although I thought historically Hondas sold pretty much at or near sticker. But at least new buyers aren't getting any better a deal than I did... And prices may yet return closer to MSRP as the traffic picks up.)

  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    edited April 3

    @dash5 said: It's time for something new and nothing is speaking to me....

    I'm driving a 2011 Optima SX. I've enjoyed the car but long story short it's time for something else. No rush, but I'm hoping something really gets me excited the way the new Optima did when I got it.

    Anyway. Cars I'm considering: Accord V6, Accord Coupe, Audi A3/A4 possibly S3, MB C Class... even looked at the small crossover SUVs like the new Pathfinder, or a Traverse. Right now I'm really hoping the new Acura TLX fits the bill.

    The Accord is fairly bland. It's nice, but it's also a lot like a Toyota car these days in that it's OK but there's nothing really special about it, either. Appliance on wheels, basically.

    Between the European sedans, (C, A4, 3), they are all nearly identical other than a (small) bias towards luxury or performance. The C class is a bit softer and more luxurious, the 3 series is more sporty and agile, and the A4 is right in the middle. The only downside with the A4 (my dad has one now) is that it is extremely understated like Lexus.

    That said, all three drive or offer something better than the domestics or Japanese cars.

    The Acura, Infiniti, and Lexus all were nice. Very nice. But they also were like jellybean clones of each other. You honestly can't tell what it is from a block away. I'd honestly rather just buy a (non hybrid) Fusion and save $20K if it's all going to be the same appliance.

    The SUVs, my dad and I looked at them all and nothing made our hearts move even a millimeter. They've devolved into basically custom vans that are raised a few inches. Gone are the days where you could see the 4x4 truck in their DNA.

    But you're right. So many choices and so little that makes our hearts move.

  • suydamsuydam Posts: 996

    I love my Accord, and it drives nothing like the Camry which I also tested. To each his/her own.

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,748

    All of the mid-sized family sedans are "appliances". But some are Hotpoint appliances, in white, and some are top-shelf Panasonic or LG or Bosch or Whirlpool appliances. :)

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,310
    edited April 3

    On the Mustang (and Camaro), I think the interiors are the weakest link. Going retro is neat and all, but I want an Audi interior. Then I would be interested. I know that the Ford dash looks better, has better materials for 2015, and also has MFT for the fist time. I couldn't see it at the auto show though (it was on a pedestal and roped off).

    BTW, I just saw the new Chrysler 200 interior in the C/D May, 2014 issue. Great job! Very modern and Audi-like.

    Less importantly....

    Splurged on real Seibon carbon fiber parts. I have never actually touched a real piece until now. Weighs nothing, nice gloss finish and the pattern lines up well. Interesting. The unfinished side shows where all the air was sucked out, and how all the layers (5) squished together in the mold. I have seen and touched the fake ones. No comparison.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,297

    A reporter is looking to talk with shoppers who are in the market now or just who just recently bought a mid-size sedan like Accord, Sonata, Camry, Fusion etc. If you can assist, please reach out to pr@edmunds.com with your contact info by 4/8/14.

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • berriberri Posts: 4,234

    Having owned both Honda and Toyota, I think they are different driving/riding too. I liken a Honda more toward a Ford and a Toyota more toward a GM. Nothing wrong with either, just a little difference. Having said that, where Toyota seems to get in trouble in this arena is when they try to make their vehicle sportier by tightening the suspension. It usually just turns out to be the worst of both in those situations - stiff, but not really a good driver. Most Toyota's on an Interstate are similar to a Buick; smooth and pretty quiet. Honda's handle a little better, but are noisier.

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,310

    @plekto said: But you're right. So many choices and so little that makes our hearts move.

    I am also an Optima owner, and I can tell you that it would be very difficult for me to find another car too. There is so much to like on the car, very nice materials inside, sleek look outside, etc. The problem is that it drives like, well...a Hyundai.

    Why don't you check out the Lexus IS-350? If you want your heart to speak to you, make sure it's the 350 F-Sport.

    If my kids were all out of the nest, and I had the money to spend on any car up to $60k, I would drive home the A6. quick, reliable, classy, and yes...understated.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • rbirns1rbirns1 Posts: 219

    Any suggestions on which would be best for a 20 year old's first car?

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,982

    Something slow, boring and built like a tank. Preferably used. My daughter got a 5 YO Volvo S40 that met these criteria.

    I like a mid sized car for new drivers. Some protection but not a barge. A Camry would certainly do the job. Get something with good all around visibility too.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's) and 2007 Volvo S40 (mine)

  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,674

    @rbirns1 said: Any suggestions on which would be best for a 20 year old's first car?

    A CPO Nissan Altima S You can get a 2013 for under $17k, it's very good looking, has a few features, is very good on gas and has a warranty up to 100k.

    I was just checking these out for a friend...they even have a coupe for the same deal.

    You didn't have specifics so this is assuming many things, one of which is a low price...If it isn't, I'd say a Cayman S...

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