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The Current State of the US Auto Market
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Comments
You obviously missed the context of my message. The question was asked whether GM should be held to some standard higher than other makes. I made mention that it was embarrassing that the biggest US maker can't get their quality up. And I used the long history of problems as an example of how consistently they've been subpar. So it is relevant to the "current" GM because it has been a very long standing pattern that ought to be rectified.
By now, GM probably HATES itself!
GM finds new ignition flaw, will replace second part
General Motors has found another flaw in the ignitions of the 2.6 million vehicles it's already recalled, and will replace an additional part to remedy the problem.
http://money.cnn.com/2014/04/10/autos/general-motors-ignition-recall/index.html?iid=HP_Highlight
Might as well replace the whole thing!
Ward's releases 10 Best Interiors list for 2014
Ward's offered up the list of winnerswinners in simple, alphabetical order, and it only seems fair to do the same.
http://www.autoblog.com/2014/04/10/wards-releases-10-best-interiors-list-for-2014/
Interesting list... I gotta agree with them on the JGC, I love everything about those, especially the interiors on the Overland Models with the cocoa brown! I'm really curious about the 200 as well, from the pics it looks like Chrysler tried a few creative and atypical things but the layout and the quality of the plastics didn't really seem all that luxurious... Still, I'll be looking forward to checking it out at NYC.
Yes, that is often true they have separate facilities, but it's often just a wall or two apart, and the dual dealership is often under the same management, some hiring people, etc. It just strikes me as odd that one end of the dual brand should outscore the other. Interesting.
This has nothing to do with the current state of the US car market, but I thought it was amusing (the owner would probably disagree...).
It's probably more of an example of the state of US car drivers.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/04/10/boston-firefighters-run-hose-through-car-parked-front-hydrant-east-boston-fire-scene/U6jeEBScIhlW3YutCLPS8L/story.html
That's a big jump for the Chrysler 200 (Sebring) which was notorious a few years back for the "cheapness" of its interior.
The Kia Soul seems to have an appeal to older drivers, because of its "utilitarian" design, so I guess Kia decided to try to meet the expectations of those buying for substance, instead of style.
It's unfortunate that, once again, GM admits to having 100's of complaints about an issue, this one of the key coming out of an engaged ignition and doing nothing about it until it couldn't be ignored any longer.
But, there's something to the idea of getting all your beatings over with at once. Perhaps that's GM's stance now.
Seems like firefighters have plenty of experience with that sort of thing. There's quite a few similar images out there.
I correspond with another '99 Quest owner who's about my age and he's been shopping for a new ride for a few years now. The Soul has been high on his list the whole time.
Good news for Corvette, too, since a major complaint against this car in the past has always been cheesy interiors that do not wear well.
A reporter is looking to speak with a GM owner whose vehicle falls under the recent waves of recalls, but isn't terribly bothered by it. If you can assist, please contact us at pr@edmunds.com by Monday, April 14, 2014.
I'm not stupid. I clearly understood the technique.
So that does mean sludge, brake problems, transmission problems, engine cylinder deactivation on Hondas (VCM?) problems, SUA, and the plethora of all other past problems from other manufacturers are relevant then since those too are germane to the current car company's positioning "today."
The problem is some people want to post those problems from the past which were things gone wrong and are to be held over GM's head forever, such as problematic Gran Prix's, large trucks with problems, etc.. We've heard those often enough and have stipulated to their validity. However, The Current State of the US Auto Market is today's vehicles.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I would think most folks would consider currently running vehicles (vehicles commonly seen on the roads) as "today's vehicles", so any issues with them, regardless of manufacturer or time of manufacture should be considered appropriate for this forum's subject matter.
When I'm auto shopping, I don't really consider issues that were abundant 25 years ago, simply because they're not relevant to the way vehicles are made today.
I don't think I can name a single vehicle in mass production today that wouldn't run circles around even the most reliable vehicle made 25 years ago, from a reliability standpoint. Recalls may be far more common, but only a tiny fraction of those cars being recalled ever really cause any problems or issues.
We stand a better chance of being killed by lightning strikes than we do from auto defects.
Just got done driving back from Columbus (2 1/2 hrs.) in my Cobalt. Keys didn't fall out; car didn't shut off; 37 mph highway; still on original battery (6 yrs. this month). I did have a campaign done for free a year or so ago, for keys getting stuck in the ignition, not falling out. I had it done even with no symptoms. I still like the car. Perhaps the best $9,900 I ever spent, six years ago this month.
Imidazol, noticed two goldish 2014 Malibus on the drive down there--one was an LTZ--I like how the large wheels and tires really fill the wheel openings; the second one was an LT like yours and those are good-looking wheels too.
About the new recall--I'm not worried. Remember, recalls aren't an indication of quality. I've heard that repeatedly here. Fire hazard in vans as old as Cobalts? Six million Toyotas recalled, going back a decade? Meh. Keys coming out of Cobalts? Damn Government Motors!
I've been often told here why I should listen to CR on reliability. They say even the first year Cobalt is 'average' reliability--same or even better than quite a few cars on their charts, including German and Asian varieties. So not a ton of Cobalt owners are having these recall issues, at least according to CR.
That's ironic. I just got back from Columbus at 6:10. Had to put registration sticker on the Cobalt, so went over and visited Microcenter store and got carryout at Tai's Asian Bistro on Lane just west of the West Campus area. Great place.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
GM announced today that the ignition recall will now include cylinders, at least for some cars (including 2005-2010 Cobalts). There's been a "few hundred" complaints per Fox, so not a ton.
And who doesn't put their transmission in Park before shutting down and taking the keys out?
Evidently, putting the car in Park before leaving can be a issue with older folks. It's fairly common to hear on the local news where elderly drivers forget the car is running, get out, and then the car crashes into a building, garage, etc.
In fact, a guy I used to work with (10-15 years older than me) forgot and left his car running a few months ago in his garage, which was under the condo he lived in. The carbon monoxide buildup in his condo ended killing him and his wife. Some of his family wanted (and may yet) to sue Toyota because his Avalon wouldn't automatically shut off after 15 minutes or so of just idling.
At least, he remembered to put the car in Park...
Like I've said before, you probably stand a higher chance of getting killed on your drive to the dealer to get the recall done by being in a collision or some other non-recall related issue than you do from any hazard due directly to the recall.
And, that applies across all makes.
I ask with sincerity, what people here think of automatic headlights. To me, it should be a no-brainer. The last two nights, I saw three vehicles (a recent Mazda SUV, a recent Sienna, and a Dodge Avenger) with no lights on at all at dusk or past-dusk. That blows my mind. I'd like to blame it on young drivers, but I honestly can't. My cheapest Chevys have had automatic headlights for at least a decade. To me this is one of the best, cheap, accident-avoidance things out there...same with ABS which I insisted on my otherwise-strippo Cobalt.
"for every year one of these (GM) cars was driven, its driver faced a risk of death of about 0.0000007 as a result of the ignition switch. That’s less than one in a million."
In Defense of GM (slate.com)
And another quote from that link:
"Members of Congress, and commentators, are pretending to be horrified that a corporation would attach a price to human life when deciding whether to replace a faulty part. But all corporations that manufacture dangerous goods must do exactly that. If carmakers treated human life as literally priceless, they wouldn’t let cars leave the lot."
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Smart people that drive stick shifts, of course.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I'm a 'stickguy' myself.
This is a feature I like. My wife's RDX and my old (now daughter's) Volvo have them, so I got used to having them. But, the TL I inherited back recently doesn't, and I occasionally forget to put them on when there is enough light to see the dashboard!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I guess those same Congressmen and commentators are just fine with all the corporations that make huge profits manufacturing munitions and weapons of war, which serve the very purpose of killing folks.
So much for the value of human life...I guess it all depends upon one's perspective...
I can't imagine why cars aren't equipped with daytime running lights and automatic headlights.
Been meaning to fix the "quote" at my profile for months now - wish the overstrike was working. Love sticks but it's been 15 years since we've had one.
The difference is sustained subpar products. Does Toyota have the length of subpar problems that GM does? Does Honda?
Seems to me there's a reason why those two makes have a certain reputation, and why GM does as well. And that IS germane to the current state of the market, as it influences buying decisions and market share.
Those same congressmen make funding decisions on Medicare, which undoubtedly has more effect on human lives than anything that any car company does.
"Seems to me there's a reason why those two makes have a certain reputation, and why GM does as well. And that IS germane to the current state of the market, as it influences buying decisions and market share."
Well said, as usual.
Recalls? Toyota is the king this decade. That's not hyperbole, that is fact. And recalls are what we have been talking about, ad nauseum, on this site for weeks. Check out Cobalt reliability per CR...the earliest year. Compare to other makes. You may well be surprised.
Compare current Malibu reliability, to current Hyundai, Fusion, Sonata, Optima, Accord. You may also be surprised.
It takes awhile for perception to catch up with reality.
Through Friday morning, GM shares have lost 6% of their value in the past five days as analysts have lowered earnings estimates and pulled recommendations.
The automaker's legal troubles worsened as GM placed two low-level engineers on paid leave, pending resolution of investigations by the U.S. Justice Department and by outside lawyers hired by GM. Committees of the U.S. House of Representatives and the Senate both want to know why it took more than a decade for GM to recall cars with the defective ignitions.
The investigation so far has yielded at least one intriguing fact: that the defective ignition switch was redesigned in April 2006, though without a corresponding change in the number used to designate the part. Changing the number of a redesigned part is a standard industry and GM practice that enables service mechanics, recall supervisors, and accident investigators to keep track of whether a part must be replaced.
In 2013, Ray DiGiorgio, a GM engineer, testified under oath in a personal injury lawsuit that he hadn't signed off on an ignition redesign. Documents produced by the House committee suggested that DiGiorgio indeed had signed off in 2006, leading Sen. Claire McCaskill of Missouri to accuse the engineer of perjury and to demand that GM fire him.
The egregious mishandling of reports of faulty ignition switches -- both before and after bankruptcy -- suggests that the car giant may not really be a new company anywhere except on its balance sheet. The new GM's cars have recently scored high with reviewers such as Consumer Reports. (Disclosure: As a blogger covering Detroit, I often participate in test drives sponsored by GM and other automakers.) But it appears that the same values and policies that pushed General Motors into a financial abyss remain stubbornly in place -- awaiting reform, presumably under Barra's direction.
I saw this and thought of UL.
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2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Why are you starting with 2009 Malibu and ending with 2011, but starting with 2011 Optima and ending with 2013?
Year-for-year, per CR anyway, 2011-13 Malibus are more reliable than 2011-13 Optima Turbos.
VW issues stop-sale, and good news for Cadillac and Buick:
http://www.autonews.com/article/20140409/VIDEO/304099951/autonews-now-stop-sale-on-3-vw-models?cciid=email-autonews-annow&r=3337D4772912B9W
People don't buy vehicles based strictly on rationality. If they did, no one would have bought a Hummer, a Harley Davidson or a Land Rover. But emotional response is a huge factor for some people, and even "I feel safe" or "this car won't let me down" is an emotional response.
It's always been my opinion that "perception" will never become "reality" until a) everyone who bought an American car in the 1980s is dead; and b) everyone who bought a Japanese car in the 1980s is dead.
After that, everyone will be free to judge things based on current data.
I always think back to when I was a kid and car-crazy....if an 'old guy' said he wouldn't have bought a new '66 Mustang because his '46 Ford was crappy, I'd have thought he'd had a couple screws loose! LOL
Many people's experiences in the 1980s with their cars amounted to total losses. It was pretty bad.
IMO, the vast majority of durable products are purchased based upon emotional attraction that factual representation.
In my lifetime, the only vehicle I can think of in production that marketed itself more towards the non-emotional POV was the air-cooled VW Beetle. It changed little from year to year, and was intended to attract the much more "basic" needs of transportation. Even then, towards the end of the Beetle's production run, marketing moved towards the emotional attractions of the potential buyer and away from the rational-based attractions...
Absolutely---old VW Beetles were terrible cars to drive---wheezy engines, bad brakes, poor HVAC, but very cute, very cool, and they were reliable. But even that magic wore off when people saw what else they could buy for their money.
People are not going to stop buying Hondas and Toyotas based on some buzz in the media about 'recalls'. The Toyota Prius is the biggest selling vehicle of ANY kind in California. The UA incidents didn't appear at the cash register
They were very fun to drive too. But I finally went to a Datsun wagon for more room for gear (not enough oomph in the short-lived family '69 Bus to buy another one of those, although the body was great).
Yes, but you've conveniently omitted another point we've discussed. I know you remember this. The difference is sustained patterns. Pretty much any brand (not just cars) can make a mistake if they own up and correct it rapidly, and there will be few ill effects. That behavior may actually help the reputation of a brand.
The difference is when a pattern lasts decades and appears to be a part of an organization's DNA. People don't tend to trust companies in those situations, and the duration of "reform" needs to be aligned with the duration of "crappiness". Be lousy for 30 years and be all better in 1 or 2? Nobody is going to believe that.
If Ford was crappy in 1946 and continued pretty much unabated until 1966, then yes, I would expect the '46 to be brought up, along with the '52, and the '58, and the '62, etc. It's not nearly so irrational as you attempt to depict.
"Conveniently omitted", that is rich on this board.
GM still sells a ton of vehicles although there are more competitors now and fewer GM divisions. Imidazol and I are not the only people still buying GM's. Best values IMHO.
I know a few folks who would say they had crappy Fords between '46 and '66, BTW.
I'd have still thought the guy was a grumpy old "Mr. Wilson" who said that about the new Mustang. 
Personally, I would never buy a car to go with the flow, or buy it because everyone else does. That's actually a bit of a turn-off to me.
You mean like transmission problems in Hondas?
I'm going to have to do more following of topics about some of these other brands to determine how long their patterns are. Was the SUA from the beginning of the coverup by toyota/NHSTA until the final NASA resolution (ROFL) a pattern? :SOT
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Circlew and tlong, what are your opinions on automatic headlights? It's OK if you think they're a good idea, even if GM was first to have them across the line.
Hmmm. I didn't realize there was a "NASA RESOLUTION".
What I remember reading was that NASA found nothing amiss that would support the claim of some type of UA gremlin.
Did I miss something?
that's correct. NASA found no inherent glitch.
""NASA found no evidence that a malfunction in electronics caused large unintended accelerations," said Michael Kirsch, principal engineer and team lead of the study from the NASA Engineering and Safety Center (NESC) based at NASA's Langley Research Center in Hampton, Va.
Some people claim that NHTSA and NASA gamed the system and didn't perform due diligence.
Some folks do seem to LOVE conspiracy theories, don't they?