Tires, tires, tires

fxs · June 2002

According to the tirerack: "The Michelin LTX M/S offers optimal durability and traction in combination with exceptional mileage and the classic Michelin smooth, quiet ride for pickups, vans, sport utilities and other commercial light truck applications. If you, like most light truck owners, spend a lot more time on the road than off, the LTX M/S gives you the manners of a car tire, with the ruggedness of a light truck tire while maintaining an exceptional amount of snow traction due to the interlocking, full depth sipes."
I bought the LTX for its 6-ply strength so that when I do go off road I will have the added protection. Also it doesn't hurt to have a stronger tire for the street to prevent flats and other damage caused by the things we run over. If you can afford to the LTX is still the way to go especially for comfort and handling. Good luck.

dardson1 · June 2002

I admit that I trade cars too often and have not bought a set of tires in 25 years. I also admit I tend to think "tires is tires" and if Honda, Chevy, or Ford thinks a tire is ok it's good enough for me. On another thread I mention the rear antilock brakes on my 02 Tahoe seem to engage too quickly particularly at a rough intersection. I get a couple of quick replies telling me it's the (hold your nose) stock Firestones.
I've had a feeling all the Firestone bashing is overblown. Maybe my "tires is tires" is faulty thinking. I could be convinced if a tire change would improve my grip enough to stop the antilock brake problem. I just don't wanna spend 400 bucks so I can have a different name on my tires. Any thoughts? What do I buy and what do I do with nearly new Firestones (4k miles on odometer)?

bretfraz · June 2002

A few random thoughts this early morn:

1) First, let's not assume everything is right with the ABS system. It's possible there is a problem with the proportioning valve or an ABS wheel sensor. A process of elimination might be in order here.

2) Believe it or not, brakes do not stop your Tahoe, or any other vehicle for that matter. Tires do the stopping. Doesn't matter how good your braking system is, if the tires will not grip the road and stop the vehicle, it's all worthless.

3) If tires were just tires then there would be only one or two tire mfr's making tires for every vehicle because, hey, what difference does it make?

4) Final point: Let's not over analyse this particular problem. You have an issue with one specific condition on one little tiny patch of road. I'll bet a paycheck that a huge variety of vehicles have a similar problem on that patch of road. Tires cannot grip what they cannot grip, regardless of brand, size, tread pattern, tread depth, air pressure, weather conditions, etc etc etc. My advice is to drive carefully over that stretch of road or bypass it altogether.

lmacmil · June 2002

The behavior you describe is not unusual. Low speed bumps will often fool the wheel speed sensors into thinking the wheel has locked up and thus initiate an ABS cycle. Every ABS-equipped vehicle I have owned exhibits this to varying degrees. I doubt there is a problem with either your tires or your ABS system.

corvette · June 2002

Weights go on both the inside and outside if they are needed there. After reading the original post, I realize that xplorx4 was asking about stick-on weights. Stick-on weights which are placed on the inside of the wheel (not visible on vehicle) are mounted with the inside weight about an inch from the inside edge, and the outside weight about an inch from the outside edge. There are several reasons people would want to do this: 1) Some alloy wheels don't have a ridge for standard wheel weights to clamp to, and must use stick-on weights. 2) Many people dislike the appearance of wheel weights on their alloy wheels; particularly, the color may stand out from the rest of the wheel. 3) People may not mind the appearance of the weight itself, but when weights are added and removed, there will inevitably be scuffing and chipping of the alloy rim, which is also undesirable.

Rereading your original post, I think you already know the above, but I decided to leave it in case it might help someone else.

Balancing tires only on the inside (or only on the outside) can be done, and is known as a static balance. Basically, the wheel is weighted so that there are no "heavy" spots. This is a simplified version: imagine a broomstick through the center of the wheel, with the broomstick resting on two sawhorses. Spin the wheel 'till it stops. Add a weight at the top, the bottom is the heavy spot. Repeat until the wheel no longer stops at a particular spot. This is bad compared to a dynamic balance (achieved with a balancing machine). Basically, with a static balance, the wheel can be "balanced" perfectly, but still wobble when going down the road. Back to your original question, for clarity purposes I think it would be wise to specifically ask the tire shop to use stick-on weights (both inside and outside). Even clamp-on weights can fly off, and if the balance job is bad, you will know it.

dardson1 · June 2002

for the opinions. I went to Tire Rack and got more infor than I knew what to do with....lol. They had a "find your tire" Q&A on the site. and among the winners based on my driving habits was the Firestone Wilderness....ha! Their official opinion was.....perfectly good tire for light duty on-road driving, fairly quiet and smooth riding. Oh well. Guess I'll keep them for now. Thanks again.

toadman · June 2002

Tire's aren't just tires. Each tire is made for a specific purpose. Remember, the only thing in contact with the road are your vehicles tires, unless of course your muffler happens to be dragging.

Never skimp on tires. It's been posted before but seriously, in an emergency a good set of tires can make the difference. Tires are constructed from various types of rubbers and synthetic compounds that enhance wear and traction depending on the surface they were designed for. Example, winter tires are a softer rubber compound that holds it's form in colder temperatures as well as usually having sipes and or larger spaced lugs to handle snow and ice.

Tires also have either steel or nylon/polyester belts or both for rigidity and strength. The bonding agents used to seal the rubber to these belts is also important. Hot conditions can cause these bonds to weaken and fail as well as heavy loads, although this process usually takes quite a bit of time to occur under stressfull driving conditions.

Being in the tractor trailer lease business, we never skimp on our tires. You see quite a few truck tire carcasses on the roads, usually because somebody tried to recap their tires one too many times or who purchased a low quality low cost tire to save a few bucks. The end result is that they spend more for road side assistance and replacement costs than to spend a few extra dollars up front for a better quality tire.

Keep the tires balanced and the vehicles alignment in place and you should get your monies worth and miles worth out of your tires.

tidester · June 2002

Each tire is made for a specific purpose.

That reminds me of the Inuit (Eskimos) who have something like 40 or 50 words for "snow." Some people are more discerning than others and knowing the distinctions can matter especially if your life depends on it.

tidester
Host
SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories

tidester · June 2002

I was informed by my cohost that the Inuit don't have all those words for snow! (Look here!)

Thanks, Steve!

tidester
Host
SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories

dardson1 · June 2002

what I'm supposed to look for in a tire. I'm the "tires is tires" guy. I know that if I wanna drive 120mph I better have tires that are rated for such speed. I had a Volvo turbo with V rated tires (is that 149mph). Didn't drive it that fast but I had more flats than I can remember in any other car. According to the tire guy....those kind of high dollar, low profile, grippy tires are not very forgiving. For the life of me I can't remember what tires were on the Volvo, but they began to separate at 18k miles and had to replace the whole set (plenty of tread left). In my book that seems like a sorry set of tires, grippy or not, V rated or not.
The Firestones on my Tahoe seem ok to me, but please tell me if the darn things are dangerous. Everyone holds their collective noses when you mention Firestone. But why? Am I tempting fate to drive 95mph down the interstate on a hot day loaded down with GM OEM Firestones? Will I see a recognizable difference if I switch to a set of Yokahamas or Goodyear or whatever. I'm game to trade up since the tires are the "only thing between me and the road".

lmacmil · June 2002

In my opinion, there is probably nothing wrong with your Firestones and they should be fine if inflated properly.

FWIW, Consumer Reports rates the BFG Long Trail TA, Bridgestone Dueler, and Michelin LTX M&S high in their all-season SUV tire ratings. I replaced the stock Goodyears with the Long Trails on my Explorer and the road noise was significantly reduced.

corvette · June 2002

I second lmacmil's opinion. Just to note, some OEM Firestones tend to wear out very quickly, but you should notice if they are approaching wear-out when you are checking the tire pressures.

yurakm · June 2002

There was a lot of discussions of tires after the Explorer / Firestone fiasco. I understood that:

Tires are overheating in the following cases:

1. when tires are inflated low / underinflated, or/and

2. when the vehicle is loaded / overloaded, or/and

3. when driving at high speed (on highways) for long distances, non-stop or with short stops, or/and

4. in very hot weather.

The worst is when several of these cases combines, and

5. the tires themself are marginal.

The number 1 was characteristic for Explorer: Ford used to recommend inflating the tires to 26 psi only, and many owners did not maintain even this pressure.

The number 2 happens especially often with SUV, because the huge volume invites overloading, but load capacity, as a rule, is low. Often less, than for typical sedan.

Most accident with tires happens under conditions 3 and 4.

All tires are rated A, B, or C concerning heat resistance. Tires rated C are marginal by definition: just passing Federal limits. Good enough for typical commute, but not for demanding driving conditions. No margins for defects, errors and neglect, either by manufacturer or owner.

The heat resistance rating correlates with speed rating - because heat builds up on higher speed. Typical touring tires are rated B, performance tires - A. SUV being traditionally considered slow vehicles, Explorer tires were (are?) rated C only. Even while, in reality, SUV and light tracks in general are driven as hard as any other passenger car.

ruking1 · June 2002

#1512

I had a TLC with the SAME tire size as the Firestone/Explorer. I had Bridgestone's and Michelin's. I ran between 32-35 psi. While the FORD Explorer recommended 26psi. If I had used the same sized Firestones on the TLC, I would also have run them at between 32-35 psi. So for the same tire we have almost radically different operating pressures. If I can sum it up, 6-9 psi of difference. If I had let my tires get to 26 psi I would have been truly horrified, yet for the Explorer that was the recommend psi!!!!

heng · June 2002

I too run 32-35 on a GMC Jimmy (for a balance of wear and handling)and was shocked when it came out that Ford was running 26 psi on the explorer. It is no wonder they had tire failures.

The relation:
These SUVs are mid size with similar tire sizes (within 1 size of each other).

yarakum - that was a nice, to the point summary

jimmyj1945 · June 2002

I have a 2001 Infiniti I-30. Cost aside, what is the best tire to buy? I was also thinking about doing a plus zero. Does this really help? My size is now 215/55/16. Do I understand correctly that a plus zero would be 225/50/16?

One last question. Speed ratings. How important is speed rating for a person that would never drive 100MPH, but would maintain 70-75 on the highway. So much is put on H/V/Z/ ratings? I had Michelin X-one's on my old mercury and loved them. I just found out they are T-rated (118MPH). Should I avoid them?

Thanks for the education,

Jim

bretfraz · June 2002

Let's tackle this one issue at a time:

What's the best tire? - Well, if life was that simple there would be only one mfr of tires for all cars. The "best" tire depends on a lot of factors, some being price, performance in various driving conditions, tire wear, tire quality, your driving style, and some others. We have no idea what the best tire for you is unless we know exactly what you want a tire to do and what the priority list is. Since there are plenty of compromises to be made you'll have to decide which attributes are important and which aren't. I'd suggest going to some of the tire mfr websites and search out their info. Also check out http://www.tirerack.com and read up on tires. Get an education first then decide what to buy.

Plus Zero sizing - One question - why? I don't understand why one would go to Plus Zero since the benefits are so minor. A shorter sidewall provides a slightly stiffer ride and slightly better steering response. Can you tell the diff between a 50 series and a 55 series tire? I'm betting No.

Speed ratings - Speed ratings are important and not just for speed. If you scroll back to the beginning of posts here you'll find numerous discussions about this topic. Suffice it to say that there is alot more to speed ratings than how fast you can drive on them safely. Speed ratings played a part in the Explorer/Firestone debacle. Keep that in mind as you are doing research.

jimmyj1945 · June 2002

Thanks for your immediate response. But WOW! So much to this. What I was trying to say was that I'm not too concerned about the price in order to get the best tire for the car. I drive mostly like an average driver, save a once in awhile a quick avoidance turn or a little more speed to pass on the highway. The plus zero idea came from reading internet tire sites. I read so much I guess I am in overload and back to not understanding. Anyway, I'll take a break and read more soon.

Thanks again,

Jim

mdaffron · June 2002

Well, there's one reason Plus Zero sizing can help -- it can dramatically increase the tire selections available for your car.

I purchased a 2000 Mazda Protege ES two years ago. It was shod with crappy Bridgestone Potenza RE92s -- the same tires I totaled a car with due to hydroplaning in 1992 (that's an entirely different story, but if you want to read how poorly they perform in rain, just go read the customer reviews of them at tirerack.com). Even worse, they came in a near-nonexistent size -- 195/55-15. There were, and still are, only a handful of tires available in that size. By going Plus-Zero at the recommendation of a tirerack CSR, I was able to purchase a set of wonderful Dunlop SP Sport A2s for my car in the 205/50-15 size. The new tires are about 1/2-inch wider than the stock ones, so I guess cornering may be a little better. But honestly, I think the differences are more attributable to the design of the tire than the difference in size, aspect ratio or width. All I know is, Plus Zero sizing allowed me to get these great tires which I didn't even know I could consider until I learned about Plus Zero!

Meade

anonymous02 · June 2002

I guess that is what going from 185/60R14 to 195/55R14 got me.

It gave me a wider tire, without going to a shorter sidewall, therefore keeping ride comfort pretty decent on the Civic.

I, for the life of me, cannot fathom how people can ride around on 16, 17 or larger tires with such short sidewalls. Look at the 70's Corvettes with 225/70R15 tires.

anonymous02 · June 2002

I'd say your Firestones are OK, just keep an eye on them, like any tire.

Treat them right, look for nails, cracks, or uneven wear; keep properly inflated, don't overload or use beyond their speed rating (too much); and replace when at the wear strips.

toadman · June 2002

Here's a good link for those interested in tire care.

http://www.rma.org/tiresafety/tiresafety.html

robert_ca · June 2002

I would like to replace my stock 225/70-16 Goodyear Integrity tires on my Highlander. I am looking for an all season tire with good summer performance, fairly quiet road manners and with decent winter traction in moderate snow/ice conditions. I have narrowed my choices down to:

Bridgestone Dueler H/L
Michelin Cross Terrain SUV
Michelin LTX M/S
Nokian WR

Of the listed tires the Nokian WR is the only 4 season SUV tire to earn the severe service emblem, but I have not been able to find any reviews on them.

Any suggestions on the above listed tires would be appreciated.
Thanks

fxs · June 2002

scroll up to message #1492 about a RAV4 re-tire, then read responses. I'm biased toward my LTXs but I drive a Tahoe Sport 4x4 that now rides smoother than it did when it was brand new. Call the tirerack.com folks for their opinions and read the customer reviews on the website. I was also interested in the CrossTerrain but my local Discount Tire guru steered me to the LTX for the added strength. He has personal experience with both tires- LTXs on his chevy p/u and Cross terrains on his wife's Jeep GC. His wife likes the SUVs but he prefers the LTXs for both applications. I was sold after inspecting what his co-workers had on their personal Pickups - all LTXs! I'm not sure if they had a 5 finger discount but I'm happy with my choice.

jasdmw · June 2002

Anyone out there have experience with these? Particularly in winter/snow? Looking at them for my Sienna (225/60/15).

Thanks in advance.

phatratpak · June 2002

I'm sure you all have answered this question a million times, but please make it a million +1. I just purchased a 2003 acura tl type-s and it comes standard with 215/50R17 V-rated, all-season high-performance Michelin MXM4 tires. My question is, am I going to be significantly impaired in the snow (I live in Washington, DC but will be making trips in the winter back and forth to upstate/central NY [ithaca region])? Thanks in advance for your input.

jasdmw · June 2002

Several years ago I had a Capri RS (Mustang GT clone) with 50 series Goodyear Gatorbacks. Great car in the good weather. First snowfall hit and that was it. Parked it. Totally useless to try and drive with any amount of snow accumulation. I suggest a rich guy like you (assumption of course, buying that car) can probably afford a set of Alpins or Blizzaks on steel wheels for the winter. Avoid 1 little incident (ditch or fender bender) and you will have saved the cost several times over. My opinion of course.

bretfraz · June 2002

Since the 17's on that TL are "summer tires" they will perform terribly in the snow. A second set of wheels and tires with a good snow tire would be ideal if you can swing it. Every year Tire Rack offers combos like this so you can literally unbolt the summer wheels/tires and bolt on the snowies.

Another idea is to pick up a used set of 16" TL wheels off of E-bay and buy snowies for them. Could save some $$ that way.

nd4speed · June 2002

I recently bought a used Nissan Maxima w/ aftermarket wheels on it. Originally the Maxima GXE (base model) came with P205/65R15 tires. The owner bough aftermarket wheels and put P215/60R15 tires on it, which are stock for the Maxima SE model (sportier model). I have to buy new tires now and am wondering if I should get the P215/60R15 even though my speedometer reading would be about 1.3% too fast at all times, or if I should get P225/60R15 tires, which would give me a slightly more accurate speedometer reading. And also, should those tires fit on my wheels? And what would be some positive or negative side effects of this? Thanks.

boggse · June 2002

I have been shopping around for some tires for my 2001 Mazda Protege ES. It came with Dunlop SP Sport 5000m in P195/50R16 83V. I was considering these as replacements:

1. Dunlop SP Sport 9000 in P195/50ZR16 83V.
2. Dunlop SP Sport FM901 in P195/50R16 84V.
3. Toyo Proxes T1-S in P195/50R16.

I was wondering if anyone had any opinions about these or any other high performance tires in small, front wheel drive sedans. TIA.

anonymous02 · June 2002

Don't forget to make them taller and narrower than your summer tires, especially if traveling in deep snow. Ground clearance under your car will become an issue.

anonymous02 · June 2002

Those 4 sound like real truck tires. Are you sure you need to limit yourself like that with what is basically a big Camry/minivan?

Do you really haul heavy loads or do rough off-roading?

Just trying to help.

robert_ca · June 2002

I agree that my HL is really just a tall Camry station wagon and I will not be doing any rough off-roading. Did a search at Tire Rack and the only other passenger tire in the 225/70-16 size besides my current Goodyear Integrity are the Michelin Symmetry and judging by the user reviews they are not any better than what I have now.

Any other tire suggestions?

phillyguy3 · June 2002

My wife's 02 Altima just came in. It has Continental All Season tires. Another ,same model, has Bridgestone Turanzas. Any advise on these two would be appreciated. Noise,handling,traction,etc. I have a few days for delivery and,if justified, I could ask the dealer to switch. Thanks.

bretfraz · June 2002

We need to know exactly what tires you are talking about before offering any kind of opinion. Have a look at them and let us know; we'll try to help.

bretfraz · June 2002

I guess the question I have is, what's wrong with the Integrity's? If there are specific things you do not like about the tire then I'd understand the reason behind a switch. But based on your description you want a smooth all-season tire and that's what the Integrity is. The other choices are rather "trucky". I'm thinking the sacrifices you'll make for them will more than offset any winter traction benefits.

If it were I'd buy a set of good winter tires and switch at first snowflake.

anonymous02 · June 2002

I agree with bretfraz. That, or just stick it out. Isn't the Camry/Highlander AWD?

If so, you might even be OK for snow as is.

phillyguy3 · June 2002

The Bridgestone Turanza is EL-42, Continental is Touring??
Hopes this helps.

malachy72 · June 2002

might want to know this. A few years ago, I asked my wife to get the tires rotated on our '98 Ranger. The quick lube place advertised the service but wouldn't do a truck. My wife went to BJ's club and asked about rotating the tires. Although we had not bought the tires there, we could buy the tire service. They re-mounted and re-balanced the tires while performing the rotation. We were entitled to the lifetime rotation service (every 7k miles) as long as we owned the car. The service cost about forty bucks.
I thought it was a pretty good deal. Never cashed it in, the truck was totaled about 6 months later.

mickeywdw · June 2002

Oue minivan oem tires are size 215 65 16 and I need to buy 4 replacement tires. We are looking for safety and good tread life. Any recommendations?

Thanks,

stever · June 2002

Tell us a little more about the kind of driving you do.

I like the Michelin X-One's on my smaller van.

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

fxs · June 2002

come in 215/65 16 size. 225mm in the 16" diameter tire usually has an aspect ratio of 60 not 65. I would go for the Bridgestone LS/T ($75) over the more expensive but slightly more comfortable Michelin X-One($111)in 215/65 16. Checkout the tirerack.com for your choices and make your local tire shop match their prices. You have to add the shipping costs plus mounting/valve stems/balancing plus tax. I never pay for the extra road hazard or siping add on charges because I buy quality tires and most shops fix flats for free. When I last had a blowout in 1989 I just purchased a new replacement tire.

mickeywdw · June 2002

Thanks - Our driving is 80% around town - stop and go. When we are on the highway the fastest we've ever gone is 80, but most often top out at 70. WE only have 29k on the car, but the tires are worn out. Would a 215 60 16 tire fit on the rim? I had thought to get X-Ones, but the dealers around me don't have them in the right size and Costco carries them as X-Radial Plus which they say are identical to X-Ones. Anyone know?

Thanks again!

bretfraz · June 2002

Here are a few:

Long tread life - Michelin X-One, Toyo 800 Ultra, BFGoodrich Control T/A M80

Smooth, quiet ride - Michelin Symmetry or Bridgestone Turanza LS

Sporty and responsive - Dunlop SP Sport A2 or Yokohama Avid H4/V4

Good 4 season tire - Cooper Lifeliner SLE

Yes, the X Radial Plus is essentially the same tire as the X One, just rebranded for the warehouse clubs. Keep in mind that the warehous clubs are the only places that will provide warranty service. The typical Michelin dealer won't mess with them. Same goes for private-labeled Goodyear, BFGoodrich, Bridgestone, etc.

heng · June 2002

for 215/60-15 in my favorite Michelin X-ones. They don't make X-ones in that size. Asked the local Sam's club whether they would mount 215/65-15 instead. Only a 2 mph speedometer error at 65 mph. They said no, only what the car manufacturer lists for the vehicle.

My next choice is Dunlop SP sport A2s. But they aren't as cheap as I was led to believe. Yes @ Tirerack they are $58 each but locally I can get them mounted and balanced for $89 each. This is getting close to Michelin range.

yurakm · June 2002

My 98 Malibu uses tires of the same size. I bought Firestone Firehawk SH-30 1.5 years ago.

Absolutely outstanding tires for rain, excellent for dry pavements. When I bought the tires, they shared the top and second place in its category according the Tirerack user surveys; currently even better tires became available, and the SH-30 were relegated to the 3-rd place.

If I remember it right, the price of my tires, including mounting, stems, balancing, taxes, and disposing of old tires was about the same as your quote from Dunlop. Additionally, I paid about $50 for alignment, and bought road hazard insurance from Firestone. Used it once, when caught a screw.

heng · June 2002

Checked out the SH-30s. But I am looking for a better balance of snow performance and ride comfort. I know people who have SH-30s and SP-A2s. The person with the SP-A2s is particularly sensitive to ride comfort and gave the thumbs-up for that. The person with SH-30s has dedicated snows (so no input there).

I didn't initially consider the Dunlops because I wasn't looking for a high performance tire. But tire rack surveys are convincing me on the overall balance of the SP-A2s, although when actually looking at the Dunlop tread design, I question their snow performance. We didn't have hardly any snow this season (upstate NY) so no direct input there. I wonder if the tire rack survey conclusion on the SP-A2 snow performance is biased because people bought them as a high performance tire.

Anyone have experience with Dunlop SP sport A2s in snow?

wenb · June 2002

Has anyone bought pilot exalto tires. they are a summer tire.Designed for sporty compact cars. They are supposed to offer great handling and great wet performance.They are new so not much being said about them.

gambiaman · June 2002

I recently replaced the GY Integity tires on my RX300 with Michelin Cross Terrain tires. Same quiet smooth ride but they have a lot more traction. The GY's would spin on starting on wet roads unless I appiled the gas VERY gently. I can't make the Michelin's spin on wet roads. The thought of having to make a panic stop with the Integrity tires .... I've had the Michelin CT's for about 4K miles and am very pleased with them. Many others have also make the same change on their RX's and also been pleased with the CT's. They are not cheap but have a 65K rating so they should last awhile. And if you ever have to stop is a hurry on wet road you'll be glad you have them. The Michelin LTX's is also an excellent tire from numerous post I have read.

yurakm · June 2002

SH-30 are not great in snowstorms. Not really bad: in my 6 mile commute ABS typically kicks up once when it snow. However, definitely not outstanding. For Southern Connecticut it does not matter, but for upper NY I also would consider other tires.

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