Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Acura MDX (pre-2007)

16667697172125

Comments

  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    My dealer called to tell me that my MDX that is due March 15th, was not silver, but white? I told him I didn't want white, that is why I ordered silver! He told me that orders get screwed up a lot, adding NAV to touring, etc. I asked him if they really ordered or if they just get shipments and then sort them out as they come in? He said no. I also asked him, if the car isn't made yet, why can't we change the color? Ain't gonna happen. So now I have to wait until April 15th, or so he says? Not too happy. I tried to get him to drop the price, and maybe we would take the white. Not gonna happen either, he told me that I was one of the last MSRP deals they did. Maybe that is why I got passed.

    BTW, NHTSA.ORG did side impact testing on the MDX. Demonstrating the real reason why I am putting up with all this crap.
  • stangeljstangelj Member Posts: 74
    As I recall, no SUV has ever achieved an NHTSA rollover rating better than 3, until now. They have finally rated the MDX and it received a 4 rating.


    http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/nhtsa/announce/press/pressdisplay.cfm?year=2002&filename=pr06-02.html

  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    The MDX and the Pontiac Aztek 4x4 are the only tested SUV's that have a rollover resistance rating higher than 3. That's good news for MDX owners, though I still think that Acura should add stability control. Of course, non-SUV's can have even higher ratings.

    The NHTSA rollover rating is controversial because it is only a static factor based on the height of the vehicle's center of gravity and measurements of the width and length of the vehicle. The MDX probably has a relatively low center of gravity and of course is wide. Thus the measurement is useful in discussing the general physical propensity of the vehicle to roll over.

    It doesn't account for dynamic factors, such as the suspension tuning which might contribute to rollover. And NHTSA says, "the Rollover Resistance Rating, however, does not address the causes of the driver losing control and the vehicle leaving the roadway in the first place," which is where stability control (and, more importantly, good driving techniques!) can prevent rollovers. NHTSA does think that stability control can help reduce rollovers.
  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    As sbcooke mentioned and TheWorm told me, the NHTSA has released side impact crash test results. The MDX achieved 5 stars for the front, and 5 stars for the rear (second row; NHTSA doesn't test the third row).


    Press release:


    http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/nhtsa/announce/press/pressdisplay.cfm?year=2002&filename=pr06-02.html

  • mccaffrey1mccaffrey1 Member Posts: 5
    Still looking for comment @ possible suggestions concerning my problem with seat discomfort. See post #3396. Thanks, Ed
  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    Unfortunately, seat comfort is such a personalized thing that it's hard to judge for everyone. I have seen several cases when people found the MDX's front seats uncomfortable, despite most owners reviewers (e.g. Consumer Reports) saying that the seats are comfortable. My wife finds them very comfortable, I find them only moderately so. It has to do with our different shapes and sizes, of course, as well as the heavy side bolstering in the MDX's front seats and the lack of better lumbar support. But you probably already know this, so sorry for repeating this.

    I've seen one more extreme case where the owner had to trade-in his vehicle (I think he got a Wrangler?). I think others have tried to find the proper height/cushion angle/back angle, and others have used some orthopedic supports and/or higher-end sheepskin covers to address the issue.
  • thewormtheworm Member Posts: 80
    How 'bout a sheepskin seat cover (preferably a vest) and just stuff some foam in the offending spots? Been done before! Looks nice, too :)

    You're not getting enough outta the lumbar adjustment itself? Is it moving @ all?
  • thewormtheworm Member Posts: 80
    ...and I must be right, since we posted the same answer @ the same time :)
  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    Heh!
  • will4271will4271 Member Posts: 187
    I talked to a salesperson and they did confirmed that the MDX/Pilot plant is builting more MDX now to makeup for the back log. They said that they have been getting more SUVs for the last 2 months.
  • will4271will4271 Member Posts: 187
    What's the owner's take on this?

    Is it worth keeping your MDX from being dented by the cars?
  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    I have the running boards, but I don't think they necessarily help prevent dings. The reason is that they don't protrude out especially far relative to the sides (sort of my father-in-law's huge Chevy pickup). Also, the shape of many doors are such that a running board (or side step) won't necessarily stop them before a more protruding upper part hits you (picture a rear door on a sedan where its lower part is notched out for the rear wheel).

    However, the running boards do seem to help prevent rocks and gravel from coming up and scratching the bottom part of the doors. While the front mudguards help, there's often still some debris that the running boards seem to help with. This will of course vary based on your driving conditions.

    The Acura body side moldings, sold as an accessory (ugh), and self-installable (so one should buy them from a discounter like hondacuraworld.com), may help in some cases, but not in others -- there's that variation in door heights and shapes again.

    The most effective ding protection is "defensive parking," usually done by going to a less popular side of the parking lot, edging up beside a curb to protect one side and put more space between you and the vehicle on the other side, etc. If it's a non-family-oriented parking area (e.g. a business), best to stay on the passenger side of another vehicle. Avoid coupes which have long doors. Also avoid minivans in family-oriented parking lots (restaurants, stores) where careless kids can scratch the vehicle. If there's a regulation spot next to the disabled spot, it's a good one to take (the regulation spot, not the disabled one).

    While the MDX is wide, we were doing this well before we got the MDX to our previous, relatively narrow vehicle. I hate dings.
  • cmack4cmack4 Member Posts: 302
    After being in the market for a mid-sized SUV for a couple of months, I finally took the plunge... but I didn't buy an MDX! Not because I didn't like the vehicle. My neighbor got one about six months ago, and she absolutely adores hers. She let me test drive it, since none were on the local Acura dealer's lot for about a month and a half, and after driving it, I really wanted one! That all went south after visiting the Acura dealer. Besides not being able to test drive one, the sales person had little real knowledge of the vehicle... I had done most of my homework anyway, but it's nice when the dealer can tell you exactly what you're getting. Anyway, at this point, I told them I'd be interesting in ordering one. The salesperson immediately requested a copy of my license so she could run a credit report, which was the first big turn-off. After it came back nearly perfect, she was more than eager to start running those pricing sheets! You should of saw the look on the her face when I stopped her and started negotiating prices! She let out a long sigh, almost like I was doing her an injustice. We went back and forth for a while, and eventually she just totally killed it. She came out and said, "If you're so intent on paying less, maybe you should look at a cheaper vehicle." I asked to talk to her manager, but he was little help either, citing the demand for the vehicle. In the end, I just walked out! It is absolutely ridiculous when a dealer doesn't have a vehicle on their lot, is paying no overhead for maintaining or advertising that vehicle, and still wants above MSRP and is completely unwilling to budge! It costs them no extra money to put in an order for a vehicle, so what the heck is the deal here? I thought about going to another dealer, but decided against it!Whether the problem is with Acura or the dealer, they lost a buyer for life! A week later, I visited a GM dealer, since I had heard so much about the triplets. Three days later I was driving a fully loaded AWD Bravada, that actually had more options than the fully loaded MDX I was pricing, and I paid roughly $7000 less! The biggest difference was the attitude of the dealer. They didn't have exactly what I wanted on their lot, but they had it in 3 days. As for pricing, they didn't hesitate to go very close to invoice price and then added rebates/special financing on top. Obviously the MDX is selling without any gimmicks, but it could be selling a lot better! Will reliability be less than the MDX? Maybe, but the Old's had a better warranty (5yr/60,000mile bumper to bumper) among other things. I'm not here to smear the MDX, because it's a great vehicle. I just wanted to let all those involved in the process know that there are other options out there.
  • mhenderson1mhenderson1 Member Posts: 164
    I am also tired of the so-called "Acura Arrogance" that's been portrayed by so many Acura dealers. I have also looked at other options as well. Some options are good in which you will have to pay thousands more (BMW, Mercedes, Lexus) and some options you will have to pay less (Chevy, GMC, Oldmobile, Ford, Mercury). But what I see Acura is accomplishing is that they have provided a quality vehicle, having rave reviews, a little bit of luxury at a lower price than most luxury SUV's on the market today. I feel that there is no way you could compare the luxury and quality of an Acura vehicle to that of a General Motors vehicle (with the exception of Cadillac). Personally, I'm like you. I really want this vehicle, but i just can't make myself pay that price for one. So for now, I am just sitting and waiting until the other new SUV's hit the market and battle amongst one another. I feel that now the market is still a sellers market, but hopefully the latter part of the year may change. So far I hear that Toyota (newly designed Forerunner), Mercury (Aviator), Volvo (XC90), Lexus (GX470), Kia (Sorrento) as well as the Honda (Pilot) will be bringing out new products for the year. I hope they will not take the same "arrogance" that Acura has now. Acura seems to have a "bold" marketing stategy to sell their cars like this. They are not only doing this with the MDX, but also the TL, CL and RL.
  • mccaffrey1mccaffrey1 Member Posts: 5
    Worm, thanks for the response. The seat problem for me is that the lumbar support is too high, I need the support lower right where Acura left a big hole. Also the side bolster are too high leaving my butt in a hole. Spoke with an auto trim place today in Denver that seemed to indicate opening the seat and adding padding in the "right spots" was no big deal ($125 ). He said they do at least 3 new cars a week for the same type of complaints. Does that sound like a viable idea? Ed
  • pjbijoypjbijoy Member Posts: 2
    I bought my acura MDX a month back after trading in my 99 3.2TL. This is a Demo vehicle which has 5000 miles on it. After I bought the vehilcle, I start hearing all kind of rattling noices from the rear seats and also the front seats had a little play. I requested the dealer to correct the issue (Goodson Acura Dallas). They came back with the answer that the seats will get some play after some usage. I requested them to replace the seats if Acura cannot make one perfect, also the other parts which is making the noice. Acura dealers are arrogant and not professional. I think if Hundai can make little for better cars, they may have a better service that Acura. A big dealer like this in Dallas does not have time and capable service people. I may not buy another acura in my life!
  • thewormtheworm Member Posts: 80
    mccaffrey - I don't see why not! Only caution would be to be careful of the seat heating elements (seat and seatback on drivers side, seat-only on pax side) and the airbag position sensors (seatback on the pax side). good luck!

    pjbijoy - there is a TSB for something re: the driver seat shifting on the rails, esp on turns and start/stop. does it feel like an old-fashioned manual seat that's not quite "in the clicks"? I don't know what the Px is, but I do know a TSB exists for that. FYI, rattling noises from either set of rear seats are commonly from the seatbelts whacking the C or D pillars, or the center seatbelt not properly connected in the roof-mount.
  • transpowertranspower Member Posts: 213
    William:

    I do usually agree with you--and I really do like your posts here--but I continue to disagree with you on the value of stability control. What the MDX needs--as I've said many times before--is a Quaife differential up front, not stability control. (This would allow torque to be shifted between the two front wheels, in addition to what the VTM4 does--shift torque front to back and between the rear wheels.) Just look at the March 2002 issue of Consumer Reports, where it says (p. 56), regarding the stability control system of the Acura 3.2TL, "...it was difficult to keep the car on course." Presumably a stability control system for the MDX would be similar to the one on the 3.2TL and just as worthless. Instead of using brakes to destroy torque, we should be transferring torque where it's needed.

    Transpower
    2001 Acura MDX, Granite Green, Touring+Nav, 22500 miles, no problems
  • will4271will4271 Member Posts: 187
    I think we should make a list of bad dealers and send it to Acura's VP. I'll try to see if I can find the name and address from the marketing stuff I get from them.

    There are some good honest dealers that don't want to be black listed. A few bad cookies doesn't mean all are bad.

    Acura isn't probably aware of the problems at it's dealers.

    My Honda dealer routinely get survey's regarding customer satisfaction.

    Speak your mind.
  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    Hey, long time no see!

    Actually, the specific problem that Consumer Reports described was in spite of having stability control, and likely not because of it. The phrase you provided was immediately preceded by "even with stability control ..."

    The Acura VSA, as implemented on the TL-S, is probably not very aggressive, and as such was unable to correct some of the emergency handling deficiencies in the TL-S. Also, the TL-S is extremely front-heavy and the weight distribution contributed to the problems.

    Let's look at it this way: CR tested the MDX and found its emergency handling only "below average." They said that the MDX at "its cornering limits" "fishtails easily, compromising its emergency handling. Electronic stability control would likely help."

    If Acura added a bad VSA system to the MDX, then yes, I agree, it'd be pointless. But a well-tuned one could reduce or eliminate the fishtailing and improve the MDX's emergency performance.

    When Toyota added VSC (their version of stability control) to the Land Cruiser, it went from a "poor" in emergency handling to a "below average."

    I think that when Lexus added VSC to the RX300, its emergency handling performance also improved, perhaps from "below average" to "average" (don't have the issues with me right now).

    Properly implemented, a stability control system doesn't have to interfere much with driver enjoyment. Hopefully if and when Acura adds VSA to the MDX, it will be a good balance between fun and safety so one gets the benefits (if not total) of both worlds!

    Stability control is an inexorable trend. Pretty much all of the MDX's competitors have it. While there may be some overdone marketing hype, its benefits have been acknowledged through independent testing like that of Consumer Reports, and government study by the NHTSA. Even the new Camry has it, and I'll bet the Passat gets it soon (and its W8 variant and its Audi big brothers have it).
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    http://isuzu-suvs.com/events/pb02-17-01/index.html


    A Light off-road event in Southern New Jersey! Come enjoy the trails!


    -mike

  • raybearraybear Member Posts: 1,795
    Acura knows who is good and who is bad, rest assured. The bad guys are the ones selling all the extra parts, Acura loves that!
  • tomjkane3tomjkane3 Member Posts: 3
    We are seriously considering the purchase of a slightly used (less than 5k miles) 2001 MDX, or new 2002 from a dealer in western MA. Has anyone had any experience with Canadian sold cars? Does Acura honor the manufacturer's warranty in the states? Is there anyone in this discussion who has purchased from Lundgren Motor Cars in Auburn, MA?
  • will4271will4271 Member Posts: 187
    I meant dealers that charge above MSRP (w/o added options) and have a bad sales attitude to customers.

    Here's my Honda stories.

    I had encounter one dealer for a Honda (Capitol Honda in Stevens Creek) as few years back. I was looking for a car with my brother. They had one LX Accord. The sales did give us a test drive. Then we asked to negotiate. He said take it at that price or leave it. So we told him to keep it for himself.

    Another story I have was at Fremont Honda in '96. I called the fleet manager for an EX Accord matching an ad special from another dealer in Gilroy. (I stated the price to him already and he said he can match it w/o problems.)He told me to just come on it and look for a salesperson.

    So I did and the asst. manager said that (he is in charge if the fleet manager is not there) he does not match it or talk about it. So wasted my time and left.

    On Monday, the fleet manager asked why I did not buy the car. I told him those people there are jerks and can't even follow what they promise.

    I think the place may have changed management now.
  • will4271will4271 Member Posts: 187
    It lists:

    Richard Colliver
    Exec. VP
    1919 Torrance Blvd.
    Torrance, CA 90501-2746
    ph: 310-783-2000
    fax: 310-783-3900

    not sure if it does any good.
  • pjbijoypjbijoy Member Posts: 2
    I don't think the noice is due to the seat belts hitting C and D pillers. Looks more like rubbing each other or a little movement. I compared the front seats play with a new(still in showroom) with mine (couple of months old), mine has more play that the new one. The other think I noticed is the front/middle console wood like surface is making a noice when you give some pressure, same for all the wood like surface on the doors too. This is very unusual thing I noticed, is a clicking noice while backing up and breaking (some time when breaking). Dealer told is common for all MDX's. Now some times I feel like I spend more money for a junk technology!
  • tgif888tgif888 Member Posts: 351
    American Honda aka Acura will not honor any warranty work on Canadian Honda and Acura vehicles.
  • charlieinnjcharlieinnj Member Posts: 13
    I'd seriously not consider the vehicle(s) if in fact, they are "Canadian". The VIN #'s differ between those made for export to the US and those destined to remain in Canada. As mentioned by someone else, the warranty will not be honored by 'Acura America'. You will also not be covered under any sort of lemon law. This leaves you with the responsibility of relying solely on a 3rd party warranty. For more info on this topic, please see the following link:

    http://www.acuramdx.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2856&highlight=Canadian


    Hope this helps! If you search on the keyword 'Canadian' on the MDX.ORG site, you'll find plenty of valuable info.

  • darandalldarandall Member Posts: 57
    The gray fender flares look good with the GG body. Although not exactly the same color, they are pleasingly close. They also work - with teenage drivers, we are grateful for any opportunity to protect expensive to repair sheet metal! If gouged, however, the fender flares show some white plastic scars.
  • spfoteyspfotey Member Posts: 131
    can anyone comment on whether the 2002 mdx is quieter with the changes made?

    thx.
  • msh8448msh8448 Member Posts: 23
    I've read several comments regarding the "uncomfortable" front seats in the MDX. The degree of an individual driver's discomfort seems to range widely. Some people seem to think the seats are just fine. Others owners report that the seats are extremely uncomfortable (to the extent that one person traded-in the vehicle for this reason alone). My questions is > does anybody know if this "seat comfort" issue is related to the body type of the driver? In other words, are the seats more uncomfortabe if you have a particular body type (tall, short, thin, wide, etc.)? I'm a little concerned about this issue, but I wonder if the ergonomic engineers at Acura designed the seats to best suit particular body shapes (possibly at the expense of other body shapes). Any insights on this issue would be greatly appreciated.
  • conradsmithconradsmith Member Posts: 10
    msh8448, I'm one of the ones who think the seats (on 2002) are very comfortable. I look forward to long trips! My impression is that the driver seat is more comfortable than the passenger, but both are great. My wife usually drives, so I spend a lot of time on the passenger side. We got the Touring package for other reasons, but I really like the power passenger seat. It allows me to make minute adjustments during a trip to 'change position'. I also found that when I recline raising the front of the seat (and even moving it forward a little) feels better. I couldn't do that with my old manual seats.

    I'm comparing this with my most recent cars (Mazda 626) but also with several Mercedes that I had in the 80's.

    I'm not sure about body types. I'm 6'2" 230#, so I don't know how it 'fits' for small people. I'm pretty sure it would be comfortable for taller, but maybe not for wider. The side bolsters limit the space for your butt and thighs. It is just right for me, but someone larger in those areas might not like it.

    BTW, I like the 2nd row seats and could ride in the 3rd row for short trips, although getting into the 3rd row is difficult for tall people.
    - Conrad
  • will4271will4271 Member Posts: 187
    I recalled that there was a few discussions on the MDX performing poorly in the emergency handling test.


    Does anyone know or have seem the tests on a website or an autoshow?


    Did it fish tail a whole lot or slightly?


    How does the MDX compare to a Full size SUV like the Toyota Sequoia (4x4 Limited Edition) one?


    I just placed an order for that Motorweek show #2001 at: http://www.pbs.org/mpt/motorweek/


    I hoping to see if they show how it performs at the test.

  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    The MDX scored a "below average" in CR's emergency handling test. Most SUV's score either "average" (ML320, RX300, Pathfinder, 4Runner) or "below average" (e.g. Explorer, Envoy, Jeep Grand Cherokee, and even the VSC-equipped Highlander). The X5 scores "above average," however. CR apparently will not recommend any SUV that scores "well below average" (the solid black dot), but will recommend an SUV if it scores "below average."


    Here is a link to Motorweek's test:


    http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2001a.shtml


    "With average stops from 60 of 132 feet, our drivers noticed a tendency for the rear end to step out slightly, causing the need for a bit of correction."


    They also said:


    "same ... in runs through our low speed slalom ... due most likely to the soft springs ... and the MDX's healthy 4,328 pound curb weight. But out on the road, that softly sprung suspension pays big dividends. As the MDX offers a ride that rivals the best mid-size sedan."


    Another reason is that the MDX's weight is biased heavily toward its front end. A properly implemented stability control system would help prevent the stepping-out.


    CR said:


    "Though it handles well in routine driving, the MDX loses grip too easily when pressed to its limits."


    And also:


    "When pushed to its cornering limits, though, the MDX fishtails easily, compromising its emergency handling. Electronic stability control would likely help."


    Hopefully Acura will add a well-implemented VSA system for the 2003 model. Basically one shouldn't push the MDX (or, for that matter, any SUV) to its limits since it invites some problems. So long as you don't drive like a madman, you should be okay most of the time. Most of the time = some emergency cases when you might be more apt to fishtail (e.g swerving very quickly, especially in bad weather).


    Personally, I wouldn't panic about the MDX on this. But it is a factor in decision-making.

  • mark189mark189 Member Posts: 107
    I've got a 2001 MDX and found the driver's seat very uncomfortable. That's because the side bolsters are very steep and very firm.

    I had the seat raised, which seemed to also tilt the front up a little. By lowering the front, they are now more comfortable. In fact, now they're fine.
  • johnnyrebjohnnyreb Member Posts: 11
    You stated that "Most SUV's score either "average" (ML320, RX300, Pathfinder, 4Runner) or "below average". If this is true wouldn't the "average" then become "slightly below average". How then does one arrive at an average rating and what does "average" mean? Just curious.
  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    Very good question. CR rates Emergency Handling on an overall scale that includes all vehicles -- not just SUV's.

    With the heavier weight of SUV's and other factors, they do tend to fare worse than smaller sedans, and thus will score relatively lower with CR's scale. I believe most sedans score average or above average in CR's Emergency Handling test.

    It does make reading the rating a bit confusing, since if one takes it at face value there can be an assumption that the majority SUV's score average and plenty more score above average (when in fact there are very few SUV's that score above average in CR's test). This is not an excuse for the MDX's overall "below average" score, as it is on the lower end of that overall average score across SUV's, and it is certainly lower than what many consider to be the MDX's immediate competitors.

    I feel that the statistics that Consumer Reports generate are quite accurate. However, interpreting statistics is usually the issue. An example are crash test scores, which are more comparable across vehicles of similar weights. E.g. a 2,800 lb vehicle that scores "Good" in the IIHS test probably isn't as nearly as crashworthy as a 4,200 lb vehicle that scores "Good" in the test.
  • johnnyrebjohnnyreb Member Posts: 11
    Sorry, I didn't realize that the tests involved SUV's and regular automobiles. This doesn't seem very helpful to the consumer to me. It's like comparing apples and oranges. I think there should be separate ratings for different types of vehicles. Either a vehicle is safe or unsafe. SUV's should be rated on their own merits against other SUV'S with a numerical value given instead of an average value. You could then compare all SUV's and the compare them to other vehicles to make up your mind. Just my 2 cents.
  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    Thanks, I agree with you that perhaps it's worth taking some stats that are more class-specific.

    A problem, though, is that there are plenty of folks who cross-shop. E.g. some folks will shop an MDX against, say, a Subaru Outback H6 VDC. Thus they would rather see an emergency handling score that contrasts the two, and it'd be confusing if the MDX scored an "average" in emergency handling and the Outback H6 VDC did the same thing. Whereas with the score distributed against all vehicles, they would see that the Outback actually does somewhat better than the MDX in emergency handling.

    So while it is apples and oranges, there does indeed need to be a way to compare the differing vehicles. There are indeed some sedans that have emergency handling worse than some SUV's, at least in CR's test. A buyer with class-specific scores might wrongly assume that because it's a sedan, it's inherently better than a particular SUV.

    Now I'm going to go off on some assorted tangents ...

    That is indeed what's wrong with some crash test scores, and to a degree an issue of the crash testing itself. Since the scores are for vehicles of comparable weight, just because a sedan scores "good" on a test, doesn't mean it's AS good in a collision with a heavier SUV that is also rated "good". Unfortunately there is a lot of anti-SUV sentiment that wouldn't support a more real ranking (plus they would also cite that the heavier SUV is going to cause a lot more damage to the smaller vehicle, which is often a valid point -- crash compatibility can't be fully interpreted by pure weight, of course).

    This brings up the much larger question about what is safe and what is unsafe for a vehicle overall, and that's one of the toughest things to do. There's the interrelationship between all safety aspects of a vehicle, passive or active. IIHS crash tests, NHTSA front and side crash tests, EuroNCAP crash tests. Rear side airbags, side curtains vs. dual-chamber air bags vs. sausages, etc. How does one say that one vehicle is "safe" vs. another vehicle? If a vehicle lacks XYZ but has ABC, which vehicle is safer?

    To some degree that is also affected by the abilities of the driver and the conditions he or she usually drives in. E.g. some experienced drivers will trade off stability control (if they have to) for better crashworthiness because they're confident in their ability to not respond the wrong way in an emergency avoidance situation. (Please note that this is not an excuse for Acura not putting VSA in the MDX, but I don't think one can call the MDX an unsafe vehicle because it doesn't have VSA -- but it definitely is somewhat "less safe"!)

    Evaluating safety is really tough. Besides the driver, who usually rides in the vehicle? Some vehicles have better child protection measures (e.g. built-in booster seats). Is the vehicle thus safer overall for a person, given other safety measures?

    Personally, I weigh tested results (crash test scores), specified features (airbags, stability control, childproof locks, etc.), as well as manufacturer history when I consider if a vehicle is safer than another vehicle.

    I think the MDX is very safe. I think it's safer than a Jeep Grand Cherokee because of its significantly better crash test results and, frankly, the manufacturer history (which is, at least recently, better with Honda/Acura than Jeep). This despite the fact that the JGC has a better drive system for bad weather (then again, I don't live in the snowbelt and that would affect my assessment somewhat).

    Then again, I don't believe the MDX is as safe, overall, as a 2002 ML320 or a Volvo XC90. This despite the fact that the MDX performed slightly better in the IIHS crash test than the ML320 -- I think the ML320 is, overall, somewhat safer because of other features (besides stability control, more airbags, overall construction approach, and longer history of manufacturer commitment as well as manufacturer innovation).

    Curiously, though, back when I was shopping for an MDX, I couldn't get true child seat tether anchors for the ML320 (which are now standard because of U.S. law, and can be retrofitted as well). The ML320 also wasn't available with childproof locks (which are standard now and can be retrofitted). That of course reduced the "safety factor" somewhat for our situation, though now it's a moot point.

    Bottom line is that we all buy degrees of safety, as opposed to "safe" and "unsafe" vehicles. We buy vehicles with a certain actual, and a certain perceived quality of safety based on our individual needs and wants, balanced against other attributes of the vehicle. If we didn't, we'd all drive around in armored personnel carriers.
  • johnnyrebjohnnyreb Member Posts: 11
    You stated:

    A problem, though, is that there are plenty of folks who cross-shop. E.g. some folks will shop an MDX against, say, a Subaru Outback H6 VDC. Thus they would rather see an emergency handling score that contrasts the two, and it'd be confusing if the MDX scored an "average" in emergency handling and the Outback H6 VDC did the same thing. Whereas with the score distributed against all vehicles, they would see that the Outback actually does somewhat better than the MDX in emergency handling.

    IMHO, if in the comparison you cited above, for the sake of argument,the Outback was given a 4 rating and the MDX was given a 3 rating but in comparison, most other SUV's of the same weight class as the MDX were given a 1 or 2 rating out of a possible rating of 5, the shopper could then see that the Subaru had slightly better handling, but the MDX was better handling than most other SUV's of the same size and weight and perhaps slightly above average as compared to all other vehicles combined. The consumer could then make up his/her mind as to which vehicle to purchase based on the overall attributes of both vehicles, outside of the handling aspects, that best met their needs.

    Anyway this whole safety issue leaves me cold. I believe any reasonable person would agree that all vehicles produced in the last five years are vastly safer then their counterparts 10 or 15 years earlier. If you want to be 100% safe, don't drive! As my stepfather (who was a auto mechanic) once told me "the greatest safety factor is the nut behind the wheel". I don't think that has changed and it will always be true.

    Cheers,

    Johnnyreb
  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    Yes, the scale could, in theory, be expanded, though the top end would always go up because there's some hot-handling sedan up there with a higher score than any of the other sedans, thus pushing the curve down for SUV's. And as it is, CR is locked into its 5-point scoring system with the red/black/half-filled/empty dots.

    I agree to a point that safety is an interesting blend of diminishing statistical returns vs. benefits. That is, as each safety improvement is added, it probably prevents fewer injuries and fatalities than previous improvements. Thus, the statistical return of the benefits of safety are getting smaller and smaller as major advances have been made in seat belts, airbags, etc.

    As the bar gets raised, safety designers find other ways to decrease the injury/fatality rate with new innovations, even if that decrease yields a relatively lower number than previous changes.

    However, all health and life is precious, and while we could all stay home, we won't, we want our cake and eat it too. Thus, we make our own decisions in how much, statistically, we're willing to compromise our safety in exchange for other things.

    I value safety in a vehicle, but I won't trade off "everything" to get an increasingly diminished "safety percentage" advantage. Though I am willing to trade off quite a bit, and that has probably changed at different points in my life. "Everything" being defined as practicality in a vehicle, cost (I can try a huge home equity loan and try to buy an MB S500 and its great safety features but obviously am not going to do it). We all make our decision points when we purchase a vehicle. I don't think most folks say "I'm going to buy an unsafe vehicle," I think most think "this vehicle has the safety level I want and the other stuff too."

    I'm sure some bean counters out there have broken this down into pure marketing statistics, and that guides some company's decisions on safety.
  • johnnyrebjohnnyreb Member Posts: 11
    Eloquently stated. I have to agree with all of the above. Although I sometimes think that Americans are just carried away with safety issues. Driving a vehicle on a road where people can make individual decisions relating to speed, and direction at 70 miles an hour independent of the other people on the road is not a "safe" environment. In my opinion EVERY vehicle on the road today, manufactured in the last five years, is about as safe as you need it to be for a reasonable price. Do we want to pay $100,000 a vehicle for government mandated safety? IMO it's up to each individual to protect himself and his family against unforeseen preventable mishaps. Sometimes you're just in the wrong place at the wrong time and no amount of safety equipment will save your life. While safety is an important factor in purchasing a motor vehicle I believe we have reached a state of safety engineering where comparisons between vehicles should be the least important consideration in purchasing a new car. ALL VEHICLES TODAY ARE RELATIVELY SAFE. If you are driving an SUV or a truck you should know you are NOT driving a low center of gravity well designed sports car and adjust your driving habits accordingly. If you don't do this, eventually you are going to have a serious accident in which you may be killed or seriously injured. If you insist on driving in a manner where handling becomes critical you should get a sports car with excellent handling and road holding characteristics to increase your chances of survival and shouldn't be driving an SUV.

    Sorry, I didn't mean to preach. Just the way I feel. You are free to agree or disagree.

    Cheers,

    Johnnyreb
  • tony2putttony2putt Member Posts: 31
    The cars and trucks are great! If only the people behind the wheel were as good. The drivers with cell phones in one hand and coffee in the other are my concern. People don't take driving seriously, I'm not preaching either, just asking everyone to keep one hand on the wheel at 70mph please. Enjoy the MDX and look at your fellow driver, shortly of course. T
  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    Agreed. And no, you're not being preachy, you're being correct. Realistically, the number of highway fatalities would go down dramatically if 1) people didn't drink and drive; and 2) people would just buckle up! These two relatively simple things don't require high-tech safety solutions, but stunningly, kill so many each year.

    Even worse, there are still folks who don't come close to properly protecting their children in the correct restraints. There was a 20/20 (I think; one of those TV newsmagazine programs) episode that showed some really horrible practices (no doubt blown a bit out of proportion, though).

    To be fair, I've been negligent in not taking an advanced collision avoidance course. There are good ones out there, and they teach a lot of good things.
  • will4271will4271 Member Posts: 187
    The reality is probably that no SUV or car is safe but some have a better chance of survival after a major accident.

    Yes... I see those suicidual manics on the road weaving back and forth in their SUV or car everyweek or every other day when driving.

    It's an accident waiting to happen (where those highway patrol when you need them). So having a SUV/truck like structure is probably more safe that a family car if one become involved in an accident.

    Btw, I ordered that Motorweek video because I want to see how bad the emergency handling is like. It's worth that $25 ($19.99 + Shipping & handling). Honda/Acura will eventually master the VSC for the MDX and release it but the question is when or is that an option.
  • jondjond Member Posts: 43
    Thinking about purchasing an MDX. How well does it cruise at 75 mph? Does it have enough reserve power at that speed to accelerate quickly to a 100 or so? How about in mountainous driving?
  • palmspalms Member Posts: 1
    I see in past postings that some people are paying above MSRP for the MDX. I am looking at a MDX with touring package, but not navigation. The invoice price is just over $34000 and the MSRP is $37700. A dealer in Mass has an auction on ebay now for a new 2002 MDX with touring in granite green and the reserve is met at $36000. There is only 11 miles on the vehicle. Does anyone know if dealers are more willing to negotiate the price now that the 2003 changes will be coming out? thanks
  • rihoopsrihoops Member Posts: 91
    Cruises very well at 75-80 mph.
  • will4271will4271 Member Posts: 187
    I wondering if Consumer Reports and Motorweek mentioned which model did they test. The base MDX has Goodyear tires but the Touring has the better Michelin tires.

    Since tires determine are a very important factor in safety and performance, did the articles mention that?
  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    This is from memory, but I'm pretty sure that both CR and Motorweek tested a Touring. The Motorweek tests shows more than one MDX, but the one actually running through the slalom is a Touring (as identified by the roof rack).

    As far as the Motorweek test goes, you can judge for yourself on the video. To me, during the braking, the MDX's tail stepped out slightly -- quite slightly. As Motorweek said, it was easily correctable.

    On the slalom run, which is a pretty twitchy course, the MDX's tail did step out more significantly. I don't think it was every near out of control but it definitely was a swing-out of the tail as it rounded the slalom cones.

    Obviously one doesn't run slaloms every day. On the other hand, the tests were run under excellent traction conditions (the MDX posted an excellent 0-60 number), and emergency handling is usually under poorer road conditions where a fishtail could be more pronounced, perhaps seriously so.
This discussion has been closed.