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Isuzu Trooper

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  • cknottcknott Member Posts: 61
    Savvas,

    I would really be interested in seeing the Toyota landcruiser Prado in the USA. Based on its dimensions, it has a forerunner chassis and powertrain, but with a different body.

    It is my understanding and personal observation including a comparison of dimensions and powertrain, that the Lexus GX470 and the Toyota Sequoia have the same chassis and powertrain, but with a slightly different body.
  • cknottcknott Member Posts: 61
    I was remembering from my visit to the Detroit auto show that Lexus and Toyota had their SUV's lined up in a line from small to large. I can recall looking at the GX470 and thinking, rebadged Sequoia. However, according to the website link below, the GX470 matches neither the Prado or the Sequoia....whoops, I apologize, but it is much closer to the Prado than the Sequoia according to the dimensions indicated on the "SUV.com" website. The wheelbase for the Prado is 105.3inches, but 109.8inches for the GX470. Perhaps a typograhical error?

    http://www.suv.com/lexus/GX470/


    Chad

  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    They may have stretched the Prado for the Lexus line or the Prado dimensions you are getting are for the last generation Prado? We may get the "new" Prado before other markets.

    -mike
  • gtroopgtroop Member Posts: 85
    Mike is correct I believe. I think I heard we will get the next generation - not sure how much earlier though.

    This will probably be rebodied and sold as the 4 runner too similar to the recipe for the Highlander/RX300.
  • boxtrooperboxtrooper Member Posts: 843
    I heard that Toyota was talking with Isuzu about using Isuzu diesels.

    I read about a university program that put a European 230hp diesel into a Suburban along with electric braking energy recovery and electric acceleration assist. They said it performed nerly as well as the gasoline Suburban but got 30 MPG. That is the kind of hybrid SUV I would like to see in a new 2004 Trooper. (I know, no more Troopers, but what iffing is fun)
  • savvas_esavvas_e Member Posts: 347
    Guys,


    Some links about Terracan....


    sydney.citysearch.com.au/feature/333/


    &


    http://www.overlander.com.au

  • savvas_esavvas_e Member Posts: 347
    I heard something similar about making engines for Nissan.

    It's somewhere in the Isuzu business plans on the japanese website.

    Regards,

    S a v v a s
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Dmax is the Isuzu diesel company that is making consumer diesels. Right now they make the Duramax 6.6 TDI for the 2500HD Pickups for Chevy and GMC. They will be making a 3l, 4l and 5l I4, V6 engines as well to be used in the Toyotas and Isuzu SUVs and pickups. Also the CRV in Europe uses an Isuzu Diesel as well.

    -mike
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    Hopefully the newer version has a better back seat. The current 4runner, while awesome looking and great offroad, has a very small back seat. Similar to the Pathfinder. I took a hard look at both before I got my Trooper, But they are SUV's on top of a pickup, the back seat is low, flat and your knees are are in your face. The trooper has one of the best (roomiest and comfortable) back seats I have sat in compared to almost any vehicle I have been in, sedan or SUV. Even with a car seat, it fits 2 additonal adults easily.

    Savvas, have you sat in the prado? How close is it to today's 4runner?

    The disco is seems good off-road. I read that forum a lot. What I get from reading it...old school infra-structure, can be fixed on the side of the road if necessary...often problems with brake pads wearing out, maybe that is because it uses anti-lock brake retardation, as opposed to supplying power to the non-slipping wheels, like TOD?
  • goblutogobluto Member Posts: 4
    Looking at 99 Trooper S with 35,000 miles. Pretty clean all around. But I'm wondering what issues I should be aware of and what work is due at this age/mileage (brakes, bearings, fluid changes, tires, etc.). Appreciate any advice you loyalists might have.

    Also, I wasn't very impressed with the interior, particularly the seats. Do these things stand up to wear and tear? Do the cushions stay firm? I'm used to the leather seating of an Explorer Limited (about the only good thing about the truck, IMHO). BTW, what's the deal with no armrests? Can you add them to existing seats?
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    I have a 99 S. Only 25K on it. The seats, in my opinion, are great. Especially on long road trips. I do 5/6 hours no problem, seat wise...too much coffee makes those stretches kind of long. The material holds up for me. My son is 3 and has yet to cause any damage. The plastics are very durable...but not very luxurious. Function and form are great. If you are looking for an RX300, it isn't. Noticeable "clunk" when the transmission downshifts 2 to 1 coming to a stop it is normal (too long to go into a technical description), but OK.

    Problems? hmmm...stock shocks are soft, a lot of us upgrade to after-market, Rancho's or OME. Plastic wheel well trim chips easily, it is black underneath. A fair number of people, including me have had problems with alignment, well not the alignment per se, but finding a shop that can do it right. It is a heavy truck, and without good alignment, it can follow the crown of the road easily making it feel like a pull to the right. Not a major problem, but if you encounter it, don't be discouraged, find a shop that can align trucks, not cars. Mileage, expect 14-17, if better than great. It doesn't handle great, it handles and rides like a truck, not that it is unsafe, but it is slow to corner, and it has some body lean. Also there is oil burn. You can expect to us up to 1/2 quart per 1500 miles? I burn very little, but some people here report small amounts.

    You should get a sturdy, rattle free, super offroader, that you will love. I would check the carfax though, the used market...overall, very reliable. I don't know if you will get any warranty buying it used, but be advised that dealerships are few and far between, Isuzu as a whole is shrinking in the US SUV market. I posted a lot, but as you can read, not any major problems, some only found by OCD owners.
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    I have nothing better to do on a Saturday night. I was flipping around, the movie "The Pledge" with Jack Nicolson has several Isuzu Trooper scenes in it. Probably the best press Isuzu has gotten in years.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Just got back from paragon. Had a great day. Pics are being uploaded as we speak.

    -mike
  • dielectric7bbdielectric7bb Member Posts: 324
    I own a '95 S model with 85k. The cloth seats have stood up well with time, and look like they are brand new. The seats are very comfortable on road trips, as I have spent 10 hours of straight driving, and I love the front seats. I have spent over 3 hours in the back seat with two other people, and that was actually nice. FYI: I’m 170# @ 6’. The lack of armrests on the S model does bug me, but I have seen the Isuzu chairs with armrests, as well as Ford/Dodge/Chevy, and I am not impressed with any of them. I don't think there is a way to add armrests to the seats, but I could be wrong. You can always buy an aftermarket chair if you really wanted one, or go to the junk yard and rip the seats out of a Trooper that has them.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    http://isuzu-suvs.com/events


    -mike

  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    Ours has about 63,000 miles. The seat fabric is not noticeably worn anywhere, even on the driver's seat. Ours is an "S" with the Performance Package, which means it has armrests for driver and passenger's inside arms. However, I only feel the need to use the armrest about half the time.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Just an FYI, Planet Isuzoo will be having a camping and off-road trip to Uwharrie, NC April 26-28. Everyone is invited! Details on the http://isuzu-suvs.com/events page.


    -mike

  • cknottcknott Member Posts: 61
    Paisan,

    You've got to stop making waves over there on the trailblazer forum. I don't want those yups coming over here and chatting on our board.

    Have they got issues or what?

    HaHa

    Chad
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I'm truely amazed at how many problems they are having with their vehicles. It's saddening :( The worst is they have been buying American cars so long they think it is normal to have missing gaskets and fix things on their own.

    -mike
  • cknottcknott Member Posts: 61
    I promise, I am only hitting the post button once.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Happens when you refresh the page after posting. Try going somewhere else and then come back. And you can always delete your own posts at any time with that Delete button if you want to get rid of your duplicates.

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • savvas_esavvas_e Member Posts: 347
    Sbcooke,

    I'm assuming the 4runner you guys have is the Hilux based vehicle which has been around for a long time now. If that's the case, then the current Prado we have in Australia has more room than the 4runner and approaches the Trooper for capacity. The seating in Trooper is roomier and more comfortable than Prado. Prado has more rearward travel in the front seats though.

    Also, Prado's 3rd row seating is for 3 persons (skinny, little persons) so it is an 8 seater. The seats also fold up more efficiently than the Jackaroo's, taking up less load space.

    I can't comment on the new generation. I haven't seen it other than on the net.

    The only Lexus SUV we have is the Landcruiser based LX470.
  • savvas_esavvas_e Member Posts: 347
    My wife just called me. It sounds like Monty's transmission has had enough and is now clunking and jumping badly when selecting Drive and when shifting gears.

    It's off to the dealers under warranty, probably under tow.
  • savvas_esavvas_e Member Posts: 347
    CKnott,

    Just making sure I read it right. Your mileage deteriorated with the larger diameter tires?

    You would expect that the larger circumference of the tire hence the fewer revolutions per mile would mean less fuel used.

    It would seem that the gearing change means higher fuel consumption instead.

    Regards,
    S a v v a s
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    It's the un-sprung weight and energy needed to get the heavy tires moving. Also in my case the 275-70s have about 30mm more tread on the ground so more rolling friction. Also you need to punch it more to get up to the same speed.

    -mike
  • keepontroopinkeepontroopin Member Posts: 297
    So Paisan what did you think of Paragon? Was it worth it? Would you do it again?
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    It was excellent. I had been there as a passenger once before. Definitely will be heading back again.

    -mike
  • boxtrooperboxtrooper Member Posts: 843
    Is there any tire out there that was designed to be more efficient in a larger size, particularily larger but made with lighter materials that are still strong?

    Tire weight is usually not even an available parameter in tire data. It should be one of the important data they compete on.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    My guess is no. Unless you go to a narrower tire you likely will be stuck with a heavier tire, especially an LT tire. Tire weight is usually listed on the manufact. page. I know it's a big issue on my subaru when buying race tires.

    -mike
  • dielectric7bbdielectric7bb Member Posts: 324
    it's not so much the weight/mass of the tire, it's that when you increase the radius a small amount, you are increasing the polar moment of inertia a large amount(which directly increases the amount of energy stored in the wheel at any given speed). Now if tire and rim manufactures posted the roational inertia numbers for their tires, that might be something. There are some easy tests to figure it out, but they require actually having a wheel/rim in your possession :-( The total mass/weight of the tire does contribute to how hard it is to get rolling, but if I had a 100 pound bowling ball, and a 100 pound 32 inch tire, I'd rather try and roll the bowling ball :-)
  • boxtrooperboxtrooper Member Posts: 843
    Why are tires not made with kevlar belts instead of steel belts. Kevlar is what bullet proof vests are made of and it would save a whole lot of roational inertia. I think bike tires are made with Kevlar. I would be willing to pay 50% to 100% more for lighter tires because they would pay me back in performance and MPG.
  • dielectric7bbdielectric7bb Member Posts: 324
    that is a good question. I wonder why I haven't seen any kevlar tires for cars. I have some on my bike though. Kevlar is alot mor expensive than steel. Kevlar can stop a bullet, but sharp fragments that don't compress will easily cut through it (ice pick, non-hollow point bullets, knives...nails, glass...). Oh yeah, and larger tires can almost be guaranteed to hurt your city mileage, sometimes they will increase your highway mileage though. I wonder if kevlar can stand up to the temperatures of car tires and those loads.
  • jimmyp1jimmyp1 Member Posts: 640
    That audio clip of the radio guys scamming the girl is hilarious! I feel like I'm going through the same thing with the Subaru dealer. Actually the costs did go up to about $1200.00 but it's because I'm electively doing a few extra things. Essentially, parts of the 90k tune a little early. But, I decided to get a little leverage against the dealer and sent out 9 faxes to local shops using the list of parts the dealer faxed me. I'll see if there's any arguement that cn be made for labor (primarily) based on any trend I see from the independent shops. Will keep you updated, and no, you can't buy it as is. :)

    Jim
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    :)

    -mike
  • savvas_esavvas_e Member Posts: 347
    Bridgestone Dueler R/T is a kevlar belted tire that is used by the Holden Rally Team. So it suits the Trooper/Jackaroo. However, big $$$ in Oz! Something like $700AU each!

    I agree that weight should be a parameter that is specified in tire catalogues. I sometimes wonder how much those BFG A/T's are costing me in fuel, as they were fitted prior to delivery of the car. So I have no experience with the standard Goodyear Wrangler AP's.
  • savvas_esavvas_e Member Posts: 347
    Guys,

    My transmission woes were fixed for now quite easily. It was a management module glitch. Error P0705 - Transmission Range Finder. Basically, the car is female and was having a blonde morning being unable to decide what gear to use.

    If your gear changes are accompanied with banging and shuddering, stop immediately, turn the car off and wait a minute. Start up again and the symptoms should disappear. Proceed to your dealer ASAP and have them check the computer diagnostics. They will see how often the problem occured, reset the management module, give you two aspirin and send you on your way.

    Make sure that you keep a record of events, because if you get a repeat you have a real problem, not just a glitch.

    Mine is going back in a couple of weeks for a further check of the diags and to see if the error has reoccured.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    When my brake lights blew a fuse, my tranny acted exactly the same way. I popped in a fuse all better.

    -mike
  • savvas_esavvas_e Member Posts: 347
    I can see the relationship between a brake light fuse and the transmission .... NOT!!!
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Basically if your tranny starts acting funny you are gonna get the car checked out. They do this often as "attention" getters perhaps? It worked for me though.

    -mike
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    I am deciding between 275/70 and 265/70's. What concerns me about the 275's is airing down. When I go surf fishing, you have to air down to 12-15 PSI for optimal traction and not to destroy the beach. With the larger tires on the stock rims, I am concerned about them not being able to stay on the rims at such low pressure. Any thoughts?
  • jimmyp1jimmyp1 Member Posts: 640
    Well, my experience with larger tires and driving in sand leads me to believe the following.... if you are going to be going with a wider tire (I have the 265/70-16's) you will be airing down slightly to begin with to get the contact patch as flat as possible, right? So, that's what you are doing to stock tires by airing down for sand driving, trying to increase your contact patch, but you've already done that by getting the wider tires, so I'd say, just don't air down as much, if at all. You'll be fine. I run my tires at about 28 psi front, 26 psi back (backwards according to Isuzu, I know, but it goes against everything I've always known, so I do it my way). I have 15k miles on my Goodyear Wrangler RTS's, and, after three rotations, I'd say these "oversized" tires are wearing better (in fact they look perfect) than the stockers did, FYI, for all the contemplating oversizers out there.

    Jim
  • jimmyp1jimmyp1 Member Posts: 640
    I found a 1999 4WD Ltd. Trooper w/ 25k miles for 18k at a Carmax down here. Seems like a good deal. They had it listed as an "S" model, but I caught that it was a limited by the mirrors and they confirmed it. My question is, what are the warranty transferability issues with the 1999's? I guess the 3 year part is probably about up anyway, depending on when it came into service, but thought I'd ask. What does everybody think of that price?

    Jim
  • cknottcknott Member Posts: 61
    Tires:

    Yes, my overall gas mileage has been reduced as a result of the larger tires. My current tires are P265/70R16. To support Die's comments earlier:

    The torque required to rotate your tires(T) is equal to the moment of inertia of the tire(J) X's the angular acceleration desired(a)

    T=Ja

    The moment of inertia for the tire(J)(wheel being constant) is equal to 1/2 of the mass of the tire(M) X's the sum of the outside radis(R) of the tire squared plus the inside radius(r) of the tire squared

    J=1/2M(R^2 + r^2)

    Therefore, as you increase the tire diameter, the torque required to accelerate the vehicle will increase exponentially by a factor of 2.

    However, the above formula assumes a constant and consistent mass over the range from the inside radius to the outside radius. The formula would need to be integrated from r to R for the mass of the tire in order to obtain an exact result.

    Transmission:

    The transmission computer needs the signal from the brake switch to tell the torque converter to unlock. If the transmission computer cannot get this signal, it will attempt to keep the torque converter locked. you will incur harsh shifting. This is why Mike's fuse repair of the brake light switch impacted his transission shifting and control.

    Mike,
    What did I try to tell you about your trailblazer comments?
  • dielectric7bbdielectric7bb Member Posts: 324
    instead of calculating the moment of inertia through integration, you can set the tire on a ramp at a given angle, and find the amount of time it takes to accelerate to a given speed/over a certain distance. Since the only force acting on it is gravity and a normal force. Much easier than integrating. I'll look up the formula if anyone is interested.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I just ran 18psi @ paragon last weekend on the 275-70s w/o issue.

    trailblazers: I am gonna keep my comments to myself, I love watching these guys whine about problems and in the same breathe say "I love my truck" it's amazing!

    warranty: I think once a used car dealer owns a car they have to apply their own warranty it's no longer a factory warranty? I could be wrong on that though.

    -mike
  • jimmyp1jimmyp1 Member Posts: 640
    I bought my 98 used (from an independent used car dealer), and transfered the warranty successfully. I meant, when did the whole policy change to "immediate family only"?

    Jim
  • breakorbreakor Member Posts: 398
    Isn't the real test to measure/calculate the TOTAL inertial differences between 2 cruising Troopers, one with stock tires and one with larger ones?

    The forward momentum of both vehicles is roughly the same. The rotational momentum difference in the tires is the significant difference, isn't it? The key then is what percentage of the TOTAL momentum is represented by the tire rotational momentum. Isn't this resulting percentage the potential mileage hit depending of course on the number of stop and go cycles?
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    I am pretty sure this exclusion applies only to the second half of the powertrain warranty, and didn't start until the 2000 model year.

    In MY 2000, the P/T warranty was increased to 10 yrs / 120k miles (previously it was 5 yrs / 60k miles). For all owners of a 2000 or newer Trooper who are not immediate family of the original owner, the powertrain coverage drops back to 5 yrs / 60k miles.

    I could be wrong on this, but my impression was that most of the time, a factory warranty on a vehicle (not just Isuzu) is good for any owner, not just the original owner. Buying a used vehicle does not mean the factory warranty is gone. There wasn't a doubt in my mind about this until it was brought up on this board! That made me think twice about it.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    That sounds like a decent price. Not a great price, but decent. However, comparing it with what you could get in a non-Trooper SUV for $18k, it's an outstanding value.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    cknott,

    Minor point here - you should also include the moment of inertia of the wheel itself.

    Also, not so minor a point, the increase is not exponential. It is algebraic as the variation is with R2 (R does not appear in the exponent!).

    tidester
    Host
    SUVs
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