Isuzu Trooper

cknott · May 2002

Cubster1,

My wife and I have lived in Newnan, Ga and Gainesville, Ga since owning our trooper. We have a 1999 Silver Trooper. The windows on our trooper were tinted a few months after we purchased the vehicle. Generally, I believe the lighter color troopers do much better than the darker color troopers (general rule for all vehicles)in regard to perceptive AC performance. Our trooper will definitely get hot if you have it parked in the sunlight all day. However, it only takes 2~3 minutes to get it cooled down inside.

Chad

boxtrooper · May 2002

IMHO, undercoating works short term only. After a while the undercoating will crack and peel and in the process it will create a lot of little pockets that hold salt and other corrosives. So long term undercoating is worse than not undercoating. Mostly selling undercoating is just a quick way for someone to make a buck. It will last a couple years and thats about how long most people keep their cars anyway.

Another problem with undercoating: If you need to work on anything under there (like to get the skid plate off to change the oil filter) you will first have to cut away the undercoating and create more pockets to hold salt etc...

If they undercoat the transmission and engine oil pan or transfer case or differentials the undercoating may act as insulation and make your oil run hotter.

Just my 2 cents

zutrooper · May 2002

I received my new shocks as well. I got 3 installed, but rear, driver side shock had a frozen bolt. Unfortunatel, bolt head is blocked by frame. Any ideas on how to break? Thanks, Zt

tkevinblanc · May 2002

Oh, the old Montero. I had one of those in 86 and loved it like I do my Trooper. It had that spring thing in the driver's seat...

They'll probably never bring it here. It'd be a nice retro truck.

How different is the new Montero Sport?

troopertu · May 2002

I got a hidden hitch yesterday. I am wondering if I need to add wiring for the hitch. Anybody only uses the hitch without wiring? What could be the problems of that?

tkevinblanc · May 2002

NAPA and other auto parts stores sell this stuff called P Blaster. It is in this bizarre spray can that looks like it has a bunch of cheap advertisements all over it.

But it works great. I think it's a lot better than Liquid Wrench or WD 40. I've sprayed it on bolts that I was sure were completely fused together and it's done wonders.

troopertu · May 2002

I got a hidden hitch yesterday. I am wondering if I need to add wiring for the hitch. Anybody only uses the hitch without wiring? What could be the problems of that?

amigo_john · May 2002

If the liquid wrench treatment doesn't work you can heat the threads (if any are visible) with a small torch and then put a candle against the threads. The wax will travel between the threads and the bolt should come off easily. It's an old mechanic's trick.

breakor · May 2002

IIRC the upper bolt on the driver's side rear was somewhat of a pain to get to on my 99. It was also on very snugly.

I was able to only get a socket on the nut. I used an offset box-end wrench to access the other end of the bolt. I spun the box-end wrench into the frame and then used a short cheater bar on the socket wrench to remove the nut.

zutrooper · May 2002

Breakor you are correct. The driver/rear shock top mount is blocked on one side by frame. also, the muffler keeps you from using a long wrnech or bar. I may just cut the bolt and replace. Mark

paisan · May 2002

Well it is illegal to tow a trailer w/o having lights on it, so you should buy a wiring harness about $25 and 30 seconds of install.

-mike

breakor · May 2002

I went out and checked my 99 as it has been a couple of years since I made the swap. I think I used the box-end wrench on the bolt head. On the nut I just used an open end wrench (rather than a socket wrench as originally posted). I did let that open-end wrench wedge itself in there and put a small cheater pipe on the box-end wrench. Granted I had very little arc to move the wrench each time but it did eventually come off.

I would think twice about cutting that bolt out of there, except as a last resort, if I was you. Then again maybe it is just me but I can never seem to easily find replacement hardware. I suspect that bolt could be tough to find at a hardware store, especially the correct hardness and length. Also, the thread thread profile (i.e. isn't it smooth where the shock head fits over it?) could be a very tough match. It could even be something your dealer might not stock or is out of, at least that would be my luck.

Good luck.

bawbcat · May 2002

I am looking to buy a 4x4 Trooper. I've decided on a 98 or newer in order to get the 3.5L engine. I am leaning towards a used model to keep the price low and because it seems that depriciation is high. I may consider a new one though if the discount is deep enough. Here are a few questions that I have.

- What were the changes between 98 and 02?

- Are any years in that range better or worse in terms of reliability?

- Is TOD really a good thing? I'm a bit concerned about increased maintenance or reliability issues. Generally such "automatic" systems aren't highly regarded in the 4WD community either. I also don't like the fact that they replaced the oil pressure and battery gauges with the TOD display on the dash. Basically, I'm a little leary of this system. I'd appreciate any other opinions or insights.

- With the TOD system, is there a "normal" 4high range where the TOD unit is locked with a 50/50 split?

- On the new 02 Troopers, my dealer is currently offering $6k off MSRP (carsdirect.com is only offering like $4k off). Is that a good deal? I'm not in a huge hurry, so I don't mind waiting for a better deal if I'm going to buy new. I'm guessing that since the is the last year for the Trooper, the discounts may get better later in the year, but the selection may become slim also.

Thanks in advance for any comments or info!

paisan · May 2002

TOD is great. There are people with over 100K on them w/o problems. Very Very Tough Units. You can't lock it in 50/50 in Hi mode, but can do so in Low-range. I just wheeled in TOD last weekend in North Carolina and had Modified Jeepers whining that I made em look bad with my I-Sue-Zoo and PEEEEEEERelleeee tires. Pics at http://isuzu-suvs.com/events Look at "Uwharrie" with last weekends date.

Reliability is excellent over 98-02 actually 92-02 are very reliable.

I wouldn't wait long. Most dealers didn't order many '02 Troopers and thus supply is very limited.

The best part of TOD is that you can use it for the 99% of the time that you are on-road, yet it retains the full power of a PT Transfer case for off-road use.

-mike

bluedevils · May 2002

Count me as another guy who is annoyed that giant TOD display has displaced some important gauges.

If you scroll back a couple hundred posts, you'll see lots of feedback on your general question (differences between 98-02), as someone else asked the same question not long ago.

I'm in a lazy mood and don't feel like retyping much of it.

$6k off MSRP is pretty decent. You can do better on price with a used one, but consider you'd lose the 10yr/120k powertrain warranty (it's still 5/60 though).

bluedevils · May 2002

For our family, TOD is great. Our '98 does not go off-road. The biggest benefit for us is knowing that it's always on, even on dry pavement. That's a big plus over our previous '96, which had a shift-on-the-fly setup with 4Hi instead of the TOD automatic mode.

TOD Troopers still give you the low range, yada yada yada, so the TOD system really gives the best of both the on- and off-road worlds.

paisan · May 2002

I personally like the TOD guage. It lets me know that it's actually working. For about $50 I can install the 2 guages that are missing very easily. I may do that eventually.

-mike

bluedevils · May 2002

Can't put them where they were in previous model years, since the TOD is occupying that space, right?

paisan · May 2002

Obviously you can't put them where the TOD guage is! But there is tons of places they can go. Most likely they'll go somewhere in the center below the CD player or perhaps where the cigarette holder is or the fuzzy-nubs that one one knows what to do with. Maybe I'll get a funky digital one that goes on top of the steering column.

-mike

boxtrooper · May 2002

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=4859&sid=175&n=156

paisan · May 2002

The VW is tiny 55cu feet storage, it will have low range, but it's no off-roader. also at 50Kish price tag I'd take a TLC over it anyday.

-mike

paisan · May 2002

Another pine barrens run this sunday. http://isuzu-suvs.com/events for details.

-mike

sbcooke · May 2002

Sounds interesting. 11 inches of ground clearance, not bad. I wonder what happens when it scapes over a boulder or log for the first time (or maybe last time). It will probably be a good beach vehicle. "Hard core off-road" I doubt. I imagine it will have limited wheel travel, it will have to to keep its handling under wraps. Skid plates, tow hooks? Maybe it will fit somewhere between my Trooper and MDX? Except that it is a volkswagon...in a few years the windows will stop working and then one of the rear doors will never open again, then the light switch will turn the radio on and off...doh...

paisan · May 2002

Also 11" is the Maximum ground clearance. Similar to the rating that Ford uses for the new Exploders. This is a new Fuzzy math type marketing crap. Why they can't just measure the lowest thing on the car is beyond me and give the MINIMUM clearance!

Have to agree I don't see it being a long-term vehicle with VW rep.

-mike

sbcooke · May 2002

I think it looks much better than the Cayenne. I think Porsche tried to hard to make their version look different than the X5. I am sure it will be cool, like roadkill, you just can't look away.

paisan · May 2002

They aren't related though. The Porsche is the same as the VW.

-mike

sbcooke · May 2002

I know. But the VW has very similar lines to the BMW X5. The Cayenne, while same vehicle has a few more curves. I think that since the cayenne will be directly competing with the BMW they tried to make it look dissimilar...and less attractive.

paisan · May 2002

Yeah they made it look like a boxster SUV, which just doesn't work in my book. They look like jacked up sports cars. Like someone was on crack and put a lift kid on a regular car. Oh well, at least my troopa will last like another 200K miles so I should be set for a while.

-mike

gtroop · May 2002

Paison - Try mounting the gauges to the driver's side A-pillar. You should be able to find a molded plastic piece that will work to mount them in since I'm sure no one makes it for the Trooper. Look at a speed or import tuning shop...

I can't believe they are going to ask that much for the VW SUV - they have always been too proud of their cars at VW, the Jetta, Golf, GTI, and Passat are over-priced. Audi and VW will end up canabalizing each other's sales and weaken the company to the point that GM will buy them too.

paisan · May 2002

Nope, I don't do A-pillar guages. That is Boy-racer stuff, especially on an SUV. They'll go in a very inconspicuous place. I only need to check them once in a blue moon or if there is trouble detected.

-mike

wlbrown9 · May 2002

Well, I got all 4 of mine on, finally. Took 2 afternoons. Started on the Rear Wednesday. Got the right rear off using a 1/2" drive breaker bar and 3/4" socket. On the bolt head since I could not get a socket on the nut and could not find a 3/4" open/box end wrench in my tool pile. Glad I had the 16" bar to finally break loose the bolt, then used the regular ratchet to finish.

Suprise, the bolt for the Trooper is 9/16". Hole in the shock bushing is 1/2". Get on phone to 4wheelpart.com. Finally get transferred to someone in their 'techinal' area. He recommends just knocking out the steel bushing and putting the bolt through the rubber gromet (sp?). That is what I did, but I'm having second thoughts and will call Rancho for advice today. I have gone ahead and reclaimed the larger steel bushings from the stock shocks and with sufficient lub should be able to insert them in the rubber gromet. Not real happy about this sequence. I need to get the instructions out, but if I remember correctly, they are vague about what parts you might need to reuse or replace. I would have like a warning from Rancho in their application guide or from 4wheelparts.com that the shocks will work 'with modification'. I'm sure an installation shop will have equipment to replace the bushings or whatever needs to be done. It was difficult for me with a hammer, vise and punch to remove the rubber gromet, etc.

Left rear top was a b***h to get to. Finally used the 16" breaker bar with about an 8" extension over the axle to finally get a little turn on the bolt head to break it loose. Next time I think I will put it up on the jackstands a few inches to get a little more working room.

Good news is that I did the fronts last night. Not nearly the effort needed. One of them was difficult to remove top nut, but with vise grips to keep the whole top from turning I was able to get it out.

Drove it to work today and payed particular attention to a couple of memorable bumps. I think these are a definite improvement over the original shocks. I just have all 4 on setting 3 for now. I can still feel the road and bumps, but have a feeling of better control, quicker recovery and less jolt on the larger bumps... of course, even the stock shocks and the Trooper coil spring suspension rode much smoother than my 95.5 Rodeo, not to put it down, but the Trooper has a much more 'refined' ride...the Rodeo was a jolter.

If I get any good advice from Rancho about the different size bolt sleeves, I will post it later today.

paisan · May 2002

I like the poly bushings of the ranchos on mine. I'm not sure what my installer did as far as the bolt/sleeve thing but it seems to work well whatever it is they did

-mike

wlbrown9 · May 2002

Checked the site www.gorancho.com and found they do have a footnotes section that should cover the different mounting pin/bushing size. Nothing on the Trooper and the RS9215 rears. Will talk to them later today.

ZUTROOPER or BREAKOR, did either of you have the 1/2" sleeve & 9/16" mounting bolt problem on your Troopers? If so, how did you handle that? Just curious?

paisan · May 2002

When you guys get it sorted out drop me an e-mail and/or a How-to and I'll post it up in the FAQ and How-to sections on isuzu-suvs.com

-mike

boxtrooper · May 2002

How about using a small industrial display with selectable channels. They make them small enough to fit in the space of three Trooper button blanks.

See if this will fit:

http://www.omega.com/Pressure/pdf/DP41.pdf

If it will fit, there are a lot of things out there that go in the standard 1/8 DIN size.

zutrooper · May 2002

WLBrown, My trooper must have smaller bolts. The sleeves on mine went fine. I was able to install 3 of the shocks in about an hour. I had major issues w/ Top mount on rear drivers shock. I plan to complete job this evening. BTW, trooper drives much better. This is the first mod that my wife approved of. Mark P

bawbcat · May 2002

In terms of traction, my gut feeling is that TOD can't be as good as part-time 4Hi with both the front and rear locked in at 50/50. TOD doesn't send power to the front wheels until the rear slips. If power was continuously being sent to the front wheels, perhaps the rear wheel slippage could have been avoided. This would certainly provide better control than allowing the slip to occurr, and then reacting to it by transferring power. If TOD provided equal or better traction compared to a simple locked xfer case, then why isn't TOD used in low range? I think TOD is a compromise solution that sacrifices some traction in order to allow the system to be used on the street full-time.

My current Jeep Cherokee has 4 modes of operation: 2WD high, part-time 4WD low, part-time 4WD high, and 4WD full-time high. This is truly the best of all worlds.

I would guess that TOD provides better traction than the Jeeps full-time mode, since it can lock the center diff at 50/50, but not as good as the part-time high mode where it is locked continuously.

I personally don't need 4WD on the street, so TOD has little benefit for me in that regard. If there is a compromise in high range performance when compared to the simpler shift-on-the-fly (SOTF, non-TOD) system, I may try to look for a Trooper without TOD. I would appreciate any input on the subject of TOD performance vs SOTF. Thanks!

paisan · May 2002

I had a 97 Rodeo with SOTF and my Trooper goes everywhere off-road that it and any stock Jeep goes (and more) The TOD system usually puts some torque to the front even at slow speeds. If you look through the events section of http://isuzu-suvs.com/events you will see all the places I've gone with TOD. Basically the TOD works fine in any situation that SOTF works. Not to mention you can just put it in LOW and run up to 40-50mph w/o a problem in 50/50 lock if the 50/50 is that important.

What situation do you think you'll need the 50/50 HI-locked in at? Let us know your situation and we'll give you feedback on how the TOD reacts in a similar situation.

-mike

zutrooper · May 2002

WLBrown, My trooper must have smaller bolts. The sleeves on mine went fine. I was able to install 3 of the shocks in about an hour. I had major issues w/ Top mount on rear drivers shock. I plan to complete job this evening. BTW, trooper drives much better. This is the first mod that my wife approved of. Mark P

wlbrown9 · May 2002

zutrooper.. Thanks. If you could measure the hole in the old shock (or new since they fit for you) and let me know. My old one are about 9/16" vs. the 1/2" on the new. If you have to replace your mounting bolt, you will need the size anyway.

I was able to get to that bolt with a long breaker bar with about 6"-8" extension going over the axle to the bolt head. Finally got enough leverage to break it loose then could use the normal ratchet to finish removal...had to hold the nut with channel locks. E-mailed Rancho, no answer yet. I may call after I get home so if I need to redo with the sleeves in, I can do it this weekend. (That is what I am leaning toward doing anyway.) Good luck on the last one.

paisan · May 2002

My guys had a bear of a time @ 10K miles getting my stock front shocks off. They wound up cutting them off. I was very glad I dropped $150 to get the shocks and springs installed at a shop.

-mike

wlbrown9 · May 2002

One of mine was real tight...had to hold it channel locks and vise grips to break the nut loose. It was tight until I got it all the way off.. Probably should have put liquid wrench or at least a drop of oil to help it. Other one on pass. side was not as bad.

If I were to do it again, I would put it up on the jack-stands to give more working room. Several times I got where I could get the socket on the bolt, but was so tight I could not put any pressure on to try and break the nut/bolt loose.. That was more on the rear. Front not as bad IF you can get the nut to move, you can at least get to them, unlike the rear.

bawbcat · May 2002

IMHO, if I were mounting oil/volt gauges on a TOD Trooper, I ideally want to mount the factory gauges in the standard location in the dash and relocate the TOD display.

mkaye · May 2002

I have driven multiple 4wd's over the years. Traditional part-time setups (Nissan Pkup, 96 Trooper), the Jeep Selec-Trac (89 Cherokee) and my current TOD 2001 Trooper (my second TOD Trooper). The Selec-Trac is a great system. 50/50 locked (part-time hi/lo) or full-time (permanent) 4wd with true differentials (open front/center, lim-slip rear). However, I don't think it really better than the TOD.

The TOD has true front/rear diffys with the center clutch pack. However, it is a heavy-duty unit, allowing 50% of torque to the front wheels. Also, everything under the Trooper is massive, including drive-train, demonstrating the Trooper's true off-road ability and survivability.

So far, the only situation I found where the Jeep Selec-Trac (put 120,000miles on the Jeep) had any slightly better performance vs. TOD was in full snow (Jeep in full-time hi) or slowly crawling over rocks (with the Jeep in part-time hi). The snow situation is likely more tire related (stock p**py Bridgestones vs. 30x9.50 Yokohama mudders on the Jeep) and not TOD. The rock situation is ameliorated easily by putting the Trooper in 4wLow, if necessary, and likely would be eliminated with better tires than the stock. Going for the Pirelli AT's or Yokohama Geolander AT+2 very soon! I like the new Goodyear MT/R's, but I think a little noisy for my needs on street. Crawling over rocks or going up steep dirt hills off-road there is a little slip, but I think both axles are slipping due to stock tires, not due to lack of part-time locked.

Isuzu's TOD does preload the front axle, according to what I can find with up to 15% traction, so it is not really a reactive system like AWD's. I do think that most here have proved the performance characteristics of the TOD and virtually all of the magazines that have reviewed the TOD equipped Isuzus have also gave it high marks off-road as well as on. I'm completely satisfied with the whole package and am looking forward to using my current Trooper till it just falls apart, or Isuzu smarts up and brings back the real Trooper in a few years.

bawbcat · May 2002

An example off the top of my head where I speculate that part-time 4WD might be superior to TOD would be driving through a curve/corner on dirt/gravel. As you approach the corner, TOD is probably putting the power to the rear since traction is good. If you accelerate in the corner, the back end is likely to break loose. Then TOD would kick in, but you've already probably lost some degree of control.

With part-time 4WD (SOTF), power is applied to the front continuously. When you accelerate, the back end is less likely to slip since the torque is continuously ditributed to a greater traction area. This may help maintain better vehicle control/stability than the TOD situation.

If I've made any wrong assumptions here, please let me know. I'm just basing this on my understanding of how TOD works. Maybe TOD is smart enough to engage the front as soon as you press the accelerator? I haven't read that anywhere though. If the system does actually "predict", like the marketing info says, then maybe it works about as good as part-time. If it just reacts to slippage, then it can't be as good, because you've already started to loose traction. Maintaining continuous traction is the key. Once a wheel starts to slip, it is easy for it to keep slipping.

mkaye · May 2002

The TOD system uses various sensors through the ABS, throttle position, and driveshaft speed. If you hit the accelerator, the system goes to 50/50 lock easily more as a predictor of slip than a reaction to actual slippage/loss of traction. If the system senses variation between driveshaft speed and throttle position, torque is transferred. Theoretically, changes in driveshaft speed/throttle position should be detected by the system before excessive tire slippage occurs. Also, the system should react in milliseconds.

I think the scenario you are describing is one of excess speed. Going at a high rate of speed on a dirt road is not the most common scenario. The TOD should sense early slip and react because of differences between throttle position and driveshaft speeds and within milliseconds increase torque to the front wheels. And remember, the fronts are already pre-loaded I'd be more concerned with overcoming overall tire traction in this scenario. I can think of one instance on a dirt road where I was flying in my Jeep with the Yoko mudders and was 4wheeel drifting even in part time high (50/50). Wheeee!

Also, a significant number of the desert runner/score off-road vehicles are only 2wd with a locked rear differential. They get plenty of traction in your dirt/gravel situation, again, some of it comes just from proper, agressive tire selection.

bawbcat · May 2002

Just curious what the general opinion is here of the Axiom compared to the Troop. Looking at the specs, I think there are a lot of similarities: drivetrain, 4WD, suspension. On paper is looks good. Possibly similar capabilities/performance to the Trooper, but with more modern amenities on the interior. The most obvious tradeoffs that I see on the surface are that the Axiom is smaller, and IMHO is a bit funny looking. The editors here at Edmunds sure gave the Axiom a lousy review, but in general seem to like the Trooper. Is the Axiom a qualified Trooper alternative, or is it more like the marginal Rodeo? Is it made in the US or Japan? Just curious.

breakor · May 2002

I know I did not have to knock out any sleeves. I do remember a tight reinstall and using some grease to help slide a couple of the shock heads on the bolts.

I did use the same model number shocks you did. I got mine from hotrodoff-road.com. They are great Isuzu guys. Maybe they pre-removed some inserts knowing I wouldn't need them? Or maybe Rancho now puts such inserts in place for other vehicles? Just some possibilities.

My guess is that whether the inside of the urethane bushing rests on a metal sleeve or a smooth metal bolt makes no difference in the long run. The key is that it is not a loose fit.

I also only used metric wrenches. I suggest other future installers do likewise lest you strip something and/or bust your knuckles. This is especially true when using breaker bars. Just a thought.

paisan · May 2002

I used them also and my installers didn't have any problems installing them as well. Metric is the unit on almost all if not all stuff on the trooper. That is what I use.

-mike

paisan · May 2002

Anything over a 5mph roll and TOD puts 15% power to the front axle if you like it or not. So on a dirt road @ >5mph you will have 15->50% power to the front, if you are under acceleration it jumps up to 35% as soon as the accelerator is pushed. The system also learns when it has needed to shift power to the front in the past and it pre-emptively does it. When I first got mine it would shift power up to 15% >5mph from a stop sign. Now from a stop sign/light/complete stop, it will put 15% from 0mph since it needed it in the past.

Also there are weight sensors, so when decending a steep hill on the trail it will shift power to 50/50 even though there is no slippage yet, due to the weight being over the front axle. It also used ABS and drive-shaft sensors as well.

Axiom v. Trooper. Drivetrain is the same, suspension and frame is the rodeo. The biggest difference is that the Axiom will handle on-road more car-like than the Trooper due to it's lower body, street-oriented tires, active suspension, and car-like seating. The trooper has the advantage for "open" tour-bus like airyness, upright seating in all 5 seats, reclining rear seats, Captain's chairs, and beefier off-road ability than the axiom.

Hope this helps and post up any and all questions, we Isuzu owners are glad to help in anyway we can get more people into the fold. Check out all the problems in the Trailblazer/Envoy forum and you'll know why we picked the Trooper. The Axiom is made in Indiana at the Subaru/Isuzu plant, but quality is excellent as my family has had 4 cars built at that plant ('97 Legacy, 97 Outback, 97 Rodeo, 00 Outback)

-mike

Isuzu Trooper

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