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Isuzu Trooper

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  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
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  • offroaderoffroader Member Posts: 23
    First things first.

    paisan, the Trooper does not, repeat, DOES NOT have auto hubs (post #495). It uses a drive flange. More on this in a moment. Also, quite a few vehicles within the last 10 years came equipped with manual hubs. The "base model" Toyota pickups up until a few years ago came standard with manual hubs, as did Nissan base pickups. My 1992 Toyota SR5 came with ADD, but I installed hubs on it.

    I think this is a good opportunity to provide valuable information to the faithful. I consider myself to be somewhat of an expert on hubs, but you be the judge(s). Let's start with the oldest 4x4 technology and work forward.

    Drive flange - this is the original 4x4. The front drive shaft and axles rotate all the time, even when the transfer case is disengaged.

    Manual hubs - I believe hubs were first offered by Warn in the 1960s. My dad's old 1968 International pickup had Warn hubs from the factory, so I know they are at least that old. My old 1969 Ford Bronco (the first SUV!) was also equipped with manual hubs from the factory. Manual hubs disconnect the front wheels from the axles, nothing more. They are simple and robust, and offer the owner the most options. As Moliere said in Tartuffe (as I recall), "It is the best of all possible worlds." They were eliminated from most vehicles because most people are too lazy (or the factory thinks we're too lazy) to get out of the vehicle and engage them when needed.

    Auto hubs - these lock automatically when the transfer case is shifted and the vehicle is driven forward a short distance. They also unlock when the transfer case is disengaged and the vehicle is backed up a short distance. In my opinion and that of most serious 4wheelers, auto hubs are JUNK. I have personally seen several sets self-destruct. Take a look inside - they depend on a flimsy screw mechanism to lock/unlock, and are filled with tiny, weak parts just waiting to break when you need them the most. The good news is, if your vehicle has them it can probably be equipped with a set of the superior manual hubs.

    Auto Disconnecting Differential (ADD) - this system is used by Toyota, Isuzu, and others. The front wheels are equipped with drive flanges (see above) but the differential has a set of slide gears on the axles that are actuated by a solenoid when the transfer case if shifted. So, when the transfer case is shifted into 4wd, the slide gears also engage the front axles. When in 2wd, the axles rotate all the time but the drive shaft does not. Get it?

    AWD & full time 4wd - also use hub flanges to permanently keep the front wheels engaged to the axles.

    My Trooper now has manual hubs, so that when I am in 2wd nothing up front turns except the wheels.

    Everything old is new again!

    Central - on your hub install make sure you have all the required tools, incl. the large & small allen wrenches, liquid gasket maker, snap ring pliers, and a big hammer (to persuade those flange bolts to come loose!). Follow the instructions on the web page (a good article BTW -I used it too) and take your time. You can do it!

    Sorry for the extended post, but I hope it clears up some misunderstandings.

    Best,
    offroader
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Damn, didn't realize all the intricacies of the hubs. Thought they were Auto, permenant, or manual. Thanks for the info. Do you mind if I snag this post to put up on my website http://isuzu-suvs.com ?


    -mike

  • sdc2sdc2 Member Posts: 780
    I think offroader is quite correct...although doesn't the Xterra still use the same part-time 4WD system as your old 88 Pathfinder, complete with automatic hubs?

    BTW I had an 88 Pathfinder also, put 167,000 trouble-free miles on it, sold it mainly because of body rust more so than any mechanical problems.
  • basketballkidbasketballkid Member Posts: 25
    I got stuck recently because I mistakenly left my 99 Trooper in 2wd and tried to turn around by backing into some heavy snow. I tried everything. Winter mode with 4wd engaged. Low range, etc. Once I dug myself out enough to get the truck to creep forward the front wheels kicked in and I was on my way. Until then, nothing I did would get the front wheels to turn, even using low range. Is this consistent with offroader's hub explanation? Or is there anything wrong with my Trooper? It's an automatic/OD model.
  • catmanducatmandu Member Posts: 53
    We are looking for a new S Trooper. Live in N> W> Ark. Is the dealer in Fayetrtevile any good for service or price. What was the message no. for the dealer in K> C>. Would appreciate any help. Also, would themanual transmission in 4 W D creep downhill like our Jeep and save the brakes? We take some really steep grades in central Colorado. Thanks
  • offroaderoffroader Member Posts: 23
    paisan - use the previous post however you want. Be forewarned that I did take a few minor technical shortcuts for the sake of brevity. For instance, I said that ADD-type & AWD systems use drive flanges. You might get somebody who disagrees by saying "My so-and-so has AWD but doesn't have drive flanges. It's got a huge nut on the end of the front axle instead", etc. etc. But, the basic info. is correct. It's yours if you want it.

    basketballkid - whatever happened to you didn't involve the hubs, or lack thereof. It could be a problem with your truck, or possibly the teeth on the front axle slide gears were not quite aligned and the vehicle needed to move a fraction to allow the gears to engage. I'm not sure what happened. If you have any doubts, put all 4 corners up on jacks and then engage 4wd. This would simulate a "no traction" situation like snow or ice. Both rear wheels should rotate (because you have limited slip) and one front wheel should turn (because it is an "open" differential.)
  • baddestbob1baddestbob1 Member Posts: 96
    Agency you want is Jack Miller in Olathe, KS, also a location in NKC Mo. Biggest dealer in 2 states, lots of inventory, good rep, in business a long time. Pretty sure they have a web site, yes. www.jackmillerolathe.com ask for Brian Hilderbrand, mention Bob Leonard as reference if you want.
  • catmanducatmandu Member Posts: 53
    Thanks for the heads up on the dealer in Olathe. Will contact them soon. Still havn,t heard from arktrooper on the dealership in Fayetteville, Ark. I would like to know if their service is any good. We are 40 miles from dealer in Fayetteville and 200 from Olathe. If service in Fayetteville is not reliable, we will probably not buy a Trooper. The 2000 dollar dealer incentive and 0% financing looks good for this old retired firefighter. Again, Thanks
  • fourwd1fourwd1 Member Posts: 11
    I am thinking about using OME firm shocks with the
    CalMini kit cause it gives a little more lift than the OME coils, or the OME springs w/a 1" coil spacer. Will these shocks handle the added lift?
    If they don't expand enough they'll limit wheel travel. (Seen it happen on XJ lifts)
  • acolaacola Member Posts: 10
    Thanx to "pat pending" & "paison" for the help
    with my last ?'s. But guys PLEASE HELP again!

    ALL Interstate Highway 15, constant 70-80MPH, NO START & STOPS, and ONLY 15MPG???? IS THIS NORMAL?????

    What should I expect around town?? in 4WD???

    Any suggestions/advise greatly appreciated.

    acola
  • rickc5rickc5 Member Posts: 378
    Since selling our '98 Trooper, we no longer have use for two new oil filters sitting in our garage.

    These are genuine Isuzu filters and include the copper washers for the drain plug.

    FREE to anyone (you pay shipping), but I would prefer someone in the Denver metro area, so you could just come by the house and pick them up. We live in S.E. Aurora, near Quincy Reservoir.

    Post a message with your e-mail or phone number and I will get in touch with you.
  • rickc5rickc5 Member Posts: 378
    Gas mileage is more a function of weight and aerodynamics than engine size or what RPM your engine is running at.

    You are pushing a REAL heavy "brick" down the road, and at 70-80 MPH, I'm not surprised at your mileage. Its about what we got on our '98.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    My engineering buddies tell me that over 60-65, my trucks "Aerodynamics of a Brick Wall" will have an adverse effect on gas consumtion! :)

    -mike
  • offroaderoffroader Member Posts: 23
    I took a trip this weekend, & wanted to report my gas mileage with the newly installed manual hubs.

    For those of you familiar with CA, the trip was from the Los Angeles area to Fresno (about 230 miles each way). Nearly all highway with some steep grades near the Grapevine, no offroad driving. Conditions were cool, A/C was off. Used cruise control most of the way, 70-72 mph according to speedo.

    Got 18.22 mpg one direction, 18.25 mpg the other direction. This is excellent repeatability.

    The best I could do before the manual hubs installation was about 17.8. I feel confident that the hubs increased my highway mileage by about 0.4 mpg. Not tremendous, but I'll take it. I do not think the previously posted 15 mpg is normal.

    regards,
    offroader
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I get 15-16mpg @ 80mph going from NYC -> Upstate NY 225miles each way in TOD. @ 60-65mph I get 18-19mpg on average for the same trip in TOD.

    -mike
  • centralcentral Member Posts: 51
    Offroader, thanks to your information and encouragement I installed my manual hubs over the weekend.


    The process was relatively painless. The worst part was breaking the large bolts free. The problem was that when these bolts came undone they let out a loud snap sound. Of course, the first instinct is "what have I busted and how on earth will I ever get the stud out?". Fortunately this was just a series of 12 false alarms. The instructions at http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/isuzu/ suggested loosening these bolts with a hammer. Instead, I broke them free with a extension on my allen wrench, the wheels still on and the car partially on the ground (i.e. using the weight of the car to keep the axle from turning).


    The thing that took me the longest on my 1999 Trooper was determining how to fit the wheel center trim caps back on as the new hubs stick out about 1/4 inch more than the factory covers will allow. This was a totally optional call on my part but I think it does look much better with them back on. To do this I drilled a big hole in the center of the cap. I then used a scroll saw to make 7 or 8 radial cuts to the edge of the cap creating 7 or 8 pie wedges. These wedges then simply snapped right off with a little back and forth help with some pliers. I then filled the edges smooth and had a perfect fit.

  • offroaderoffroader Member Posts: 23
    I told you...it's not as difficult as it sounds.

    I didn't reinstall the hub caps on mine. You're right, it may look a little more original with them installed, but I'm more into function than aesthetics, & I didn't want to spend the time to do it. Another factor in my decision was that a friend once did that on an old Chevy Blazer, & he was constantly removing the caps to empty out debris & dirt that had slipped inside. If you don't do much offroading it won't be a factor. You may also want to drill a few small holes along the sides to allow water to drain out.

    I'm glad it went well for you. Enjoy the new hubs!
  • fgriecofgrieco Member Posts: 7
    I am looking into buying a Trooper. Two things bother me. First, the insurance rates seem high. I got a quote from Geico and it seemed fairly high (I haven't done a really detailed comparison). What are your experiences with insurance premiums? Would State Farm give better rates?

    The depreciation schedule according to the trade in values of used vehicles seems pretty harsh for the Trooper. It's value falls more like an American made car (my Chef Malibu, for example...). Is this because of previous years the truck had problems?

    There is a dealership offering a Trooper I 4WD Auto for ~$24000 and 0%, which looks like a pretty good deal to me.

    red
  • gpm5gpm5 Member Posts: 785
    It seems to me that depreciation on the trooper is very low. A 99 trooper S can still sell at $19k with <25,000 miles if its in great shape.
  • nobuynissannobuynissan Member Posts: 8
    Hi, guys. It seems like you know a lot about your vehicles. I've been searching for a new SUV, and the Trooper is at the top of my list. I simply need to have cargo room. I've been looking at the Explorer, Pathfinder, Blazer, and the 4runner. Would it be a good decision? I don't need the 4 wheel drive, and a station wagon would be too small. I have 2 large greyhounds to carry. I am very concerned about the body roll situation. I still find the Trooper to be comfortable.

    Thanks,
    David
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The depreciation is very bad on these trucks, but.... If you plan on keeping it over it's life (aprox 250K easily) it will save you money in the long run. My insurance actually went down on the Trooper from my '97 rodeo. The theft rate of the trooper is almost negligable because there are so few sold a year that there isn't a high demand for parts.


    nobuynissan: You will love the trooper, it's boxy shape is very comfy for big dogs in the back. I've actually slept in the back of mine w/o a problem :) The body roll is no worse than comparable SUVs, just have to drive it like a truck not a sports car : ) Depending on where you are the 2wd models may be good for you.


    You guys should check out the Isuzu owner's club area here on Edmunds. Also check out http://isuzu-suvs.com


    -mike

  • nighter50nighter50 Member Posts: 127
    if you read back a couple of pages of posts you will see discussions on shocks/coils that help with bodyroll. Seems most have had good luck with Rancho 9000s and I think you can get a set for about $250. I know others here know more about this than I. I have 98 trooper with stock set up but am thinking of getting the 9000's.

    Good Luck!
  • nobuynissannobuynissan Member Posts: 8
    One of the things that attracts me to the trooper is the warranty. would putting different shocks on the vehicle void the warranty? I just want to keep this thing on the road! After all, I'm really not doing any off-roading. Just traversing potholes and bad roads in Tampa.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    If your starting point for calculating Trooper depreciation is MSRP (which appears to be the way many auto magazines and other services calculate it), you will find that the rate of depreciation is very high. This is not a realistic figure to use, though.

    New Troopers typically are bought for $4-7k off MSRP. If you start there and calculate depreciation based on that number, it is fairly average vs. other vehicles, in my opinion.

    99 Troopers that are selling for $18-20k now probably sold for $23-26k when new approximately 2 years ago. That's about $5k depreciation in 2 years, or somewhere around 20%. That's not too bad.
  • nighter50nighter50 Member Posts: 127
    that is a good question and one that i cannot answer. Perhaps another here knows- paisan? anyone?

    Also, I think there are some posts on shocks and lifts in the Modifications/Aftermarket section of the Isuzu Owners Club - check out that Townhall forum for more shock opinions.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    The Trooper has more passenger and cargo room than any of the alternatives you listed. It sounds like a 2WD Trooper will meet your needs, and will do so at a price ($20-27k, depending on equipment) significantly less than the competition.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    Trooper insurance rates are much less than average among SUVs. In fact, the insurance on our 98 Trooper was about $80 a year less than on our 98 Mitsubishi Galant sedan with the same coverages. Currently, our Trooper is only $50 more per year than our 95 Ford Contour SE, even though SUVs typically cost more than cars and the Trooper is 3 model years newer.

    Insurance rate info can be fairly tough to find on the internet, but I do believe that Microsoft's CarPoint provides a 1-to-5 rating (from much better than average to much worse than average) for insurance costs for each make & model. Intellichoice is another place to look.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Aftermarket shocks will generally not void your warranty unless the dealer can prove they directly led to the warranty issue at hand. I don't think there is any issue that the shocks could cause damage to other than themselves. So you are safe there. IMHO

    -mike
  • fgriecofgrieco Member Posts: 7
    My insurance numbers from Geico and I was comparing the rate on a 2001 Chev. Venture to that of the Trooper. The Trooper was about $230 a year higher. Both cars have crash test "issues." I will check with state farm within a day.

    The depreciation numbers I looked at were comparing actual purchase prices and trade in value. It's nice that a dealer is getring $20k for a two year old Trooper, but I'm not a dealer.

    Fred
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Fred,
    Once you get your Trooper, chances are you'll just be breaking it in at 2 years and 40-50K miles and have no desire to get rid of it at all, so the depreciation isn't a major issue as long as you keep it for 5-6 years. :)

    -mike
  • gpm5gpm5 Member Posts: 785
    I bought a '99 trooper S at the end of last summer, and with the addons (hidden hitch, isuzu floor mats, isuzu cargo mat, and Alpine CD head unit--all at low prices) I think the price, if I sold it, is more (certainly no less) than what I bought it for. You always take the biggest hit on a new vehicle when you drive it off the lot.
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  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
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  • mrt7mrt7 Member Posts: 6
    I am looking to trade in my '94 Trooper but not all that pleased with the offers from dealers. Realize that selling privately will net more, just not sure if the hassle of playing used car dealer is worth an extra $800 or so. Love the Trooper, just have out grown it with family additions. Anyway, have been offered $5k to $5.7k on my S Trooper. Has 4WD, cruise, tilt, a/c, ABS, tinted wndws, 70k mi and is in very good shape (interior & paint). Am I dreaming if I am looking for over $6.5K? Any thoughts? Anyone want to buy a '94 Trooper?
  • grucelagrucela Member Posts: 19
    That is too cheap!!! I had a 95 rodeo s with 120k on it. Parked it on the grass and 2 days later it was sold. I listed 8900, got 8200. You can do better. Make your own sign and list all the features the trooper has. good luck
  • duktrooperduktrooper Member Posts: 78
    Where(city and state) do you live? I may be interested as I'm looking for a SUV for my son. Shoot me an email @ " sluggo3559@aol" and give me your email and a few more details on '94. thhx
  • skhatruuskhatruu Member Posts: 1
    I am interested in your trooper...email me at skhatruu@aol.com
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    You should be able to get WAY more than the $5000-5700 that dealers are offering you. Probably $2000-4000 more, depending on condition, features, mileage, etc.
  • keepontroopinkeepontroopin Member Posts: 297
    I just sold my '94 Trooper and got more than I thought I would. Send me an e-mail if you have any questions.

    chapla.t@mellon.com
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Aw come 'on. Share :-)

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  • gladiator636gladiator636 Member Posts: 13
    I am considering buying an 01' Isuzu Trooper - Anniversary Edition.

    My understanding is this only comes in Pearl White. The Trooper's seem to be well loaded, even with their "S" model.

    The list is for $33,995. My best quote so far is for $31,197.

    Not huge movement by any means, but wait... this is at 0% financing.

    By my calculations, this is the equivalent of vehicle for $26,000 @ 7.45% financing (lowest I could find outside of dealership)
  • gladiator636gladiator636 Member Posts: 13
    Anyone have any major Pros vs. Cons on Troopers?

    Am considering buying a 2001 Trooper Annv. Edition.

    Seem like very nice vehicle. I priced the Rodeo, but for not much more, seemed like Trooper is good deal. I plan to keep car for long haul.

    I was first attracted to Isuzu for the power train warranty (10yr/100k)

    Any thoughts are appreciated....Good or bad.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Well the only bennies of the Anniversary Edition are the Nagamichi stereo, and the pearl white paint and the rims. The leather can be had in the Ltd model,. and the side steps can also be had in any model. I'd get an '01 LS instead. Also the anniversary edition doesn't necessarily have the moonroof, it's an option even on that.

    -mike
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Post up in the Owner's Club area and you'll get all kinds of good stuff about the Troopers. For me it's the best value for the $.

    -mike
  • gladiator636gladiator636 Member Posts: 13
    I appreciate the input.

    Actually I wanted the leather, with heated seats.
    The moonroof I don't want, or like.

    They're asking $1295 for after market leather alone. The anniversary package is $2600 (MSRP) so I figured for $1300, give or take, I'd be getting the heated power seats, 6 CD changer, with upgrade stereo. All of which I do want.

    Do you think I am just falling into the trap they want me too? You know "well for just a little more, what the heck..."
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The LS model comes with 6 cd in dash changer, power seats, heated seats, etc. etc. The only thing the package gives you is the actual leather + the Rims + the side steps + the Paint + the Stereo. I have a 2000 LS with moonroof, and love it. It's not a bad price, especially if you don't want the moonroof. I'd say to stick it out a bit and you'll see that once June rolls around you'll get $2500-$3000 off the prices. Although the Anniversary Edition won't have too many made.


    All that aside, I have 20K miles since june on my '00 and love it still after all those miles. Handles well, has tons of room, and the AWD is awsome. You can check out pics and info on my website http://isuzu-suvs.com/ These trucks are amazing! If you are in NY/NJ/CT call Mark or Ira @ Staten Island Subaru/Isuzu 718-979-9595. They actually have a Black 2000 still in the showroom which is going for $26,000 + Tax and Tags.


    -mike

  • gladiator636gladiator636 Member Posts: 13
    But doesn't the after market leather leave something to be desired.

    At least that's what I've read, and for a few dollars more, why take the chance???
  • gladiator636gladiator636 Member Posts: 13
    Is this for real???

    Seems to good to be true. Do you just take the negotiated price (forget taxes, trade ins) and divide by 60 (12 months)?

    Is Isuzu that hard up for business?

    How do they make money, just on the mark up?
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I'd bump up to the Ltd. trim level, although you don't want the moonroof so I guess the Anniversary one is best for your situation.

    -mike
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