Isuzu Trooper

silverghost · July 2002

Considering that Isuzu is discontinuing the Trooper, would anybody care to predict how difficult it's gonna be to get replacement parts (warranty or otherwise) in a year or two?

I'm so concerned that I'm considering replacing my '01 LS 2WD with something from a manufacturer that ain't goin' away anytime soon.

Opinions??

paisan · July 2002

1) Axiom has the same drivetrain, so you aren't gonna see parts disappearing anytime soon.

2) Manufacturers are required by law to support a vehicle IIRC 7 or 10 years after it goes out of production

3) On my '88 and '91 Subaru XT6s I can get parts for it at the dealer and they only made 4000 of these units total over 3 model years. And this is >10 years after they went out of production

Not to mention the fact that very few parts need to be replaced on these vehicles til you hit the near 200K miles.

-mike

breakor · July 2002

Regarding your quote above - "Manufacturers are required by law to support a vehicle IIRC 7 or 10 years after it goes out of production."

The last I remember one of the Hosts claimed any such warranty requirement is an Urban Legend. Were you able to prove your claim? (FWIW I too thought some such requirement exists but could not find one when I went searching on the net.)

stever · July 2002

Tincan47 over in Range Rover agreed with me, and Paisan was supposed to find a link otherwise :-) (tincup47 "MY2003 Range Rover" May 14, 2002 3:25pm)

On the other hand, Savvas_e reports that there is such a law in Australia (don't remember if there was a link?).

Any Daewoo owners want to add their .02 cents, LOL?

Steve
Host
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paisan · July 2002

We have no proof one way or another, but I don't know of anyone who can't get parts for vehicles less than 10 years old.

-mike

sbcooke · July 2002

Most parts are GM. Engine, Transmission? They are also used in other implementations so they should still be in production, just not for Isuzu. I would imagine that while the whole isn't being produced, the parts are still going to be made for all the other vehicles that share the same door handles, plastic pieces etc. Some specific may become hard to find...making warranty repair harder, but I would think local shop out of pocket repairs (with non-standard parts) would be possible.

stever · July 2002

Some Daewoo owners have been waiting for parts for ~6 weeks now, but should eventually get them through GM's agreement to import them.

I have no concerns about anyone's ability to get Isuzu parts in ten or twenty years, which I think was the original concern with this thread.

Steve
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paisan · July 2002

Engine? The engine is Isuzu, the tranny is GM.

The tranny is shared with the Commodore, Caddy CTS, and BMW Z3 Roadster, so that shouldn't be a problem.

Heck I was able to pick up rear rotors for $35each at pep boys so they must be a pretty common rotor.

-mike

bluedevils · July 2002

I WOULD expect that certain parts - smaller, less important ones - will become more scarce as the Trooper fades further into extinction.

silverghost · July 2002

I'm sure the parts situation won't become serious for quite some time. I just want to avoid having to sell the Trooper in a market where parts supplies are limited. Of course, Trooper resale values are pretty low anyhow, due to aggressive dealer pricing and inherently low sales volume. $8k-$9k seems to be the floor for almost any model Trooper. But I suspect those of us with late model versions will reach that point sooner than we would like, especially once the resale market factors "discontinued product" into the pricing equation (heavy sigh ...).

tetonman · July 2002

then with all the money you save in repairs, you'll be about even!

paisan · July 2002

Don't ever buy an Isuzu, Kia, Hyundai, etc and expect it to be resold at a high value. The value is given to you upfront cause comparably equipped vehicles are $10K more initially. Also these vehicles are meant to last 200K w/o major repairs so you win in the end.

-mike

bawbcat · July 2002

Paisan, how can you lump Kia and Hyundai into the same category as Isuzu? The Korean companies do not produce the same quality of product as Isuzu. I know their quality has been improving, but I think they are an example of the old addage "you get what you pay for". Certainly prior to the last few years that was true any way.

paisan · July 2002

Cause they all have poor resale value. For the $ you can get a sonata that out-features an accord for about $7-10K less and will last at least 100K miles. Same goes for the Trooper v. any other SUV in it's class. Isuzus are probably higher quality than the Korean companies, but their resale is just as bad unfortunately. In either respect you get the depreciation taken off the initial price, rather than having a higher resale value.

-mike

silverghost · July 2002

I appreciate your comments on resale value:
.

I agree, 'cause I said the same thing a few posts back:
.

Dave

bawbcat · July 2002

Paisan,
Let me play devil's advocate here for a moment. You commented that the exterra is not as good on or off-road as the Trooper. Compared to the Trooper the Exterra is smaller, lighter, has a shorter wheelbase, and in stock configuration has larger wheels/tires and higher ground clearance. How could it be inferior off-road? In terms of on-road performance, the stock Trooper is no paragon of excellence with it's mushy springs/shocks, loads of body roll, and not-particularly-responsive steering. I've never driven an Exterra, and this is certainly a subjective area, but how much worse can it be than the Trooper on-road?

serrano · July 2002

Agreed, bawbcat. On-road, the Trooper is like driving a pool table--it's abysmal. However, there is much to be said for its other attributes. I once owned a Jeep GC Laredo that handled beautifully on-road and had loads of power from the V8. However, after the millionth time in the shop, even the on-road performance was not enough for me to keep it.

The Xterra does not have as sophisticated a drivetrain as the Troop, but it has other attributes that lead me to the conclusion that it is at least competent off-road. However, I never have driven either in serious off-road situations, so I defer to those with experience in that area.

Tom

paisan · July 2002

Onroad:

Coil rear springs, AWD system, Far more luxury, more creature comforts all lead to better "on-road" performance

Offroad:

Longer wheel travel, more power, skid plates, stronger drivetrain (far bigger differentials and tranny)

The X is quite competant offroad, it's not a slouch, but I know several people who have rented bone-stock troopers in UT and taken em through some of the hardest terrain out there in Moab with an Avis rental!!!

I've seen a few X-terras on the trail and a few with broken rear diffys.

The Trooper has the equivilent of almost a Dana60 (and I'm sure someone out there will correct me) in the rear and Dana44 in the front which are much beefier than the ones found in the X.

Onroad, the shortwheelbase of the X, the leaf springs, and lack of AWD and low power would leave it well behind the Trooper IMHO.

-mike

kevtom · July 2002

Went to the dealer today and am a new proud owner of a LS 4x4. I (and my wife) are very impressed with it. We have just ridden around the outskirts of Atlanta so far. It's interesting about the subjectiveness of rides...I had a 88 Volvo 760 and it felt as though there was more body roll and overall loose-ness compared to the Trooper.

According to the manual, I should not go over 55mph for the first 500 miles. Should I be pretty diligent about this? There is also some sort of clear adhesive on both sides of the truck below the doors on the body. Can this be taken off?

kev

cobbo · July 2002

Aloha ya'll...
Just thought I'd let ya'll know that there is already a scarcity of the smaller replacement parts...as I believe I related in an earlier posting, I took off a piece of the finishing molding along my rear right passenger door while off roading in December (apparently those trees were not 6' apart), and I have been trying ever since to obtain the part to have it replaced, but Isuzu keeps telling my shop (and a separate dealership) that it is on "back order" and thus, seven months later, I'm still driving around with my poor baby looking like he's owned by some redneck living in a trailer park who doesn't care about his truck....not that there is anything wrong with that, I just believe in taking care of those you love...

Aside from that, T3 is doing fine...just passed 14 months of ownership and 36,000 miles...I've been spoiled for other SUVs and still looking forward to several more years together, even if I have to buy a spare troop to scavenge for parts later on...

Anyway, hope ya'll are having a good weekend *wave*
-Cobbo

paisan · July 2002

I'll bet they can get the part within days.

-mike

cwmoser · July 2002

I purchased a 1999 Trooper and kept the speed down during the breakin period. I remember keeping the speed down below 60mph, no quick accelerations, and babying my Trooper the first 1,000 miles. After that first 1,000 miles, it regularly was driven 65-75mph while on the Interstate. My Trooper uses hardly any oil between oil changes which average just under 4,000 miles between oil changes.

Some Trooper engines do use some oil and I wonder if observance of the breakin period results in a Trooper like mine that does not use oil.

troop2shos · July 2002

An engine break-in is a procedure to properly seat & seal the piston rings to provide maximum compression & minimize oil consumption. Otherwise, cylinder wall glazing & blow-by past the rings could result. This is normally accomplished by varying engine RPM's & loads combined, without lugging the engine (low RPM at high load / gear conditions). Staying at a constant RPM for long periods should also be avoided during the break-in period & don't tow anything.
To me, the basic info above is more important than just using vehicle speed as a guideline - just my experience & opinion. YMMV.

tkevinblanc · July 2002

I shopped for both. I think the X is a very nice rough and tumble vehicle. It's a good stable mate to the Pathfinder. It's probably more comparable to the littler Isuzu.

One thing I would suggest is crawl under both. Look at how well engineered the Trooper is - how massive the driveline is, how everything is tucked where it can't get hammered.

Sit in the back seats of both. The X, being a pickup conversion, is just not as comfortable. The Trooper has almost no tranny hump, making all back seat passengers much more comfortable. I can't remember the X...

Sit in the front seats of both, especially the driver's seat.

Drive them a highway speeds. The X is much noisier. And I don't think the ride is nearly as nice. That's important once you get to my age (say, roughly 40).

Of course, the Trooper has that dumb-[non-permissible content removed] 70/30 rear door. Stupid, stupid, stupid. I can't tell you how many times I haven't pushed that big door out far enough for it to latch, and it's tried to kill me as punishment.

Offroad, I'll bet the X has better potential as a rock crawler, and has a better breakover angle, but the Trooper would be better at just about anything else.

paisan · July 2002

I love it! I only wish the 70 section had the window go down like the side doors. That would be great.

-mike

lawdawgfl · July 2002

I have both, a 99 Trooper and a 01 Xterra. The Trooper is much nicer on road, it is quieter and has a better ride. (I wish the front sit went back further) The Xterra is better off road, more torque at lower RPMs and it does well as a rock crawler. It really isnt fair though to try and compare the two, they are in different classes, and built for different jobs. The Xterra is sold as a no frills SUV, while the Trooper seems to cater more towards the Luxury crowd. I enjoy them both and for the most part am happy with them. As far as build quality, I have had to take the Trooper in for repair more times than the Xterra. This could just be my dealership not knowing or caring to fix the problem the first time.

cubster1 · July 2002

I know someone will smash me for this but every vehicle I have owned new (3 total) I broke them in the way I drive them--HARD. I had a performance mechanic tell me you should break in the motor the way the car will be driven. I'M NOT SAYING DRIVE THE CAR HARD FIRST THEN SLOW DOWN. He explained the seals and rings seat in the way the motor will be worked so when you get 50K plus it is used to running in that manner. I do mostly highway driving so that could play a role.

cwmoser · July 2002

I don't mind the 70/30 rear doors. It probably is no difference to me versus a rear hatch door.

What I would like, is like Pasian stated, that the 70/30 rear door windows would roll down to get good air circulation on not so hot days. An alternative would be to have electrically controlled pop out side windows like on minivans.

paisan · July 2002

Window to go down so I can stick wood/tools etc out the back window if they are longer than the vehicle.

-mike

keepontroopin · July 2002

The exterra is in no way more capable off road. Period...end of story.

paisan · July 2002

I know jimmy wanted a used one, might be too new for him, but he is in TX also.

-mike

tkevinblanc · July 2002

You have to admit the obvious. It has more ground clearance and a better breakover angle. There are things it would clear that the Trooper wouldn't. That might not make it the all around winner off road, but it does give it an advantage in some conditions.

jimmyp1 · July 2002

Sounds like it is meant to be, EXCEPT based on my searches so far, I have a bad feeling it's 2WD, true? If it's 4WD, I'll be over in 24 hours or less to look at it.

Jim

jimmyp1 · July 2002

I see no email address in your profile, unless I'm not doing it right.

Jim

paisan · July 2002

Ground Clearance and Breakover angle are NOT the only criteria that make an offroader. They are helpful for "Web Wheelers" or "Paper Wheelers" The only ones I've seen out on the trail were heavily modified versions of the X-terra, never seen a stock one at any of the ORV Parks.

-mike

tkevinblanc · July 2002

Of course they aren't the only criteria. But they do help in the one specific area that I originally said the Xterra had an advantage better - rock crawling.

paisan · July 2002

Also does it really have more ground clearance or is it a mysterious # ground clearance. For instance the lowest point on a Trooper is the rear diffy, which is not a factor when rock crawling. What is the rest of the underbody clearances? Angles of approach/departure etc.

-mike

cwmoser · July 2002

Dave, why are you selling your Trooper?
Hope its for a good reason.

stever · July 2002

Please, no soliciting on Town Hall!

Steve
Host
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bawbcat · July 2002

Check the VIN number. For late model Troopers:

JACDJ... = 4x4
JACDS... = 2x4

silverghost · July 2002

Steve, if your post #5038 is directed to me, I apologize. It did not occur to me that my message was "Commercial Activity", or activity for "Personal Gain", as referenced in the Member Agreement.

stever · July 2002

S'ok - there seems to be a lot of Trooper traders around here. Too much in fact :-)

Steve
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paisan · July 2002

are an endagered species!

-mike

paisan · July 2002

Oh yeah in stock form the Xterra has that spare tire hanging real low in the back... Followed one home tonight and was checkin it out.

-mike

cubster1 · July 2002

wow.. are you guys serious? Have any of you driven an X for more than 1 mile around the dealership? Comparing the two seems a little strange to me. The X is like a brick compared to the Trooper. Remember, you have to drive on pavement to get to most off-roading sites. As far as off-road goes I have to agree w/ Paisan in ground clearance being measured at your lowest point (diffy, tranny, etc.). Both vehicles can be modified (Calmini) so I'm thinking room, power and luxury with the Trooper over cramped interior, weezing motor and a ride reminiscent of a CJ-5 w/ the X.

boxtrooper · July 2002

Has anyone significant experience driving both the manual and automatic grade logic TOD 2002 Troopers? I am still thinking about getting a 2002 and both are available, unfortunately a few minutes test drive is not the same as living with a Trooper. I like the fun of a manual, but I like TOD and grade logic too. What MPG difference should I expect comparing the 2002 manual to a 2002 automatic? (I know the sticker is the same, but I think that is because Isuzu did not want to pay to have the MPG study done twice) I get 15 to 17 MPG around town and 18 to 20 MPG highway with my 1995.5 manual. What are the chances I get one of those that I occationally hear about on this discussion that gets 13 MPG? I would never hear the end of it if I "upgraded" to a worse gas guzzler.

I really wish they had the Diesel Trooper for 2002, my wife would let me pay full price to get the better MPG.

Handling: Troopers have better handling than any SUV with 90 cubic feet of cargo capacity or 8 seats (aftermarket third row). Only the Toyota Land Cruiser might handle as well or a little better with about the same cargo and passenger capacity, but that costs twice as much and sucks down a lot more fuel and it still far from a sports car. What other large SUVs have you heard handle better than Trooper? Can anyone compare the handling of the Yukon/Tahoe to the Trooper? I can get the GM employee discount and as an added bonus the dealer warrantee repair shop will get to know me very well.

paisan · July 2002

You can't get the Gradelogic on the MT, not sure if that's what you meant.

To me the AWD is worth the money. Handlingwise it should be the same other than the engine braking you can apply with the MT.

-mike

savvas_e · July 2002

Xterra isn't available in Australia. We get the real Nissans for offroad like Patrol.

How different is Xterra to Pathfinder?

paisan · July 2002

The X is pretty different from the Pathy. If you get the Nissan pickup it's basically a nissan pickup with a cap and about 500+ more lbs. weight.

-mike

tkevinblanc · July 2002

The Xterra is a pickup truck conversion. It's the Frontier with a body on the back. Kind of like the 4Runner is. It is not at all like the Pathfinder, which is not body-on-frame constructed.

I guess part of the Xterra's ground clearance advantage could be because its rear diffy is smaller. :-0 I still hold that at certain aspects of off roading, like rock crawling, it would be the better vehicle.

All that said, I bought the Trooper and love it.

Regarding the manual versus automatic issue, the automatic will pay for itself at resale time, even if you drive it almost forever.

Isuzu Trooper

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