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Isuzu Trooper

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    tkevinblanctkevinblanc Member Posts: 356
    cknott, doesn't the Trooper have a stock transmission cooler? Did you mount a second one, or did yours not have one? I thought they did...
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    They have tranny coolers built into the radiator. I've been thinking of adding an extra one, but haven't decided yet.

    -mike
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    cknottcknott Member Posts: 61
    I do not have the PL14619 oil filter in front of me, but it has a larger diameter and length than the stock filter. It will hold nearly one quart of oil. The filter is sort-of deceiving when you look at the box, because you think it will never fit because the diameter is so large. However, when you physically look at the filter, you will see that the seal diameter is about an inch or so smaller than the diameter of the filter.

    Yes, troopers do have an internal cooler in the radiator. However, that cooler is simply a piece of pipe passing through the bottom tank of the radiator. I was talking to my local Isuzu dealer mechanic about this issue. He "told" me that it is standard protocol for them to install an external tranny cooler when someone comes in for a tranny repair under warranty. He claimed that the cooler, as currently designed, is designed to quickly heat up the fluid and then stabilize the temperature of the fluid under most driving conditions. However, he indicated that the stock cooler lines do very little to maintain the temperature of the fluid under towing conditions/high temperature conditions. For me, his comments were only additonal information. My father and I have always had GM trucks and suburbans with external engine oil and transmission oil coolers, from the factory. These trucks easily achieve over 200,000 miles without powertrain problems. So I spent $150 to get coolers similar to what I can get on a GM truck and it gives me piece of mind.

    Chad
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    tkevinblanctkevinblanc Member Posts: 356
    Sounds like a plan, but does it defeat the purpose of the standard tranny cooler?
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    sdc2sdc2 Member Posts: 780
    The only problem it could cause is if it didn't allow the fluid to warm up enough. This could only be a problem in VERY cold weather, so it depends where you live. I live in Minnesota, so I routed the hoses to the cooler first, then through the radiator, so the fluid warming function would not be affected, but the cooler can still dump a lot of heat in warm weather.

    In warmer climes I would do it the other way around, as the manufacturer suggests (radiator first, then cooler).
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    sdc2sdc2 Member Posts: 780
    This is from the Hayden Automotive website FAQ, relative to my previous post:

    Q. Should the cooler be installed before or after the radiator?
    A. Hayden recommends installing the auxiliary cooler after the radiator to return the coolest fluid directly to the transmission. Installing the cooler before the radiator will still provide additional cooling and may be necessary in some difficult access applications.


    Q. Can you over cool the transmission fluid?
    A. Transmissions are not highly sensitive to cool operating temperatures. However, in sub-zero (20-30° F) weather conditions transmission fluid can actually gel up in an external cooler and cease to flow, causing damage. Use of the radiator cooler actually helps warm the fluid under these conditions. It is critical in extreme cold conditions to use the original equipment cooler in series with the auxiliary cooler and allow the vehicle to warm up before driving.

    ***

    After reading this, I believe I made the right call on the routing.
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I did it opposite on my SVX cause I know I won't be taking it up to the Adirondack Mts upstate in the winter, only the summer, and wanted the coolest ATF fluid flowing to the tranny. On the Trooper I'm not sure which way I'll go, I may go the same as Steve or not, if I even do it.

    -mike
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    pugger1pugger1 Member Posts: 42
    What tranny cooler has been used in the Trooper and who was the source? Is installation a big deal or should most shade tree mechanics be able to handle this task? Is there pitfalls to avoid, etc. etc. etc. Thanks for the help.
    Philip
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    sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    Why even use one at all? If already designed for towing up to a certain amount, I don't understand the push to increase capacity? You cannot increase the load due to brakes, driveline, engine, etc.
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I think the idea is to prevent overheating the tranny. The manufacturer has a cost-benefit analysis when he decides how big a cooler to install etc. This cost-benefit may be different than your personal needs. Similar to OEM tires :)

    -mike
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    serranoserrano Member Posts: 107
    Another thing to consider is the fact that the torque convertor locks in both 3rd and 4th gears. If you are towing relatively light loads that permit the converter lock, then there is a direct mechanical linkage and the fluid suffers no ill effects. However, it will be stressed more while you are accelerating from a stop.

    I also read the thread regarding oil coolers. For me at least, I do nothing to put extreme stress on my vehicle, so if it burns a little more oil, I don't care. Unless you are working the vehicle hard, putting coolers on everything with fluid seems like expensive overkill. As always, however, if you sleep better at night because you have a transmission/oil/differential/power steering cooler, then knock yourself out.

    Tom
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    serpico1serpico1 Member Posts: 30
    ok people, hello..

    first off, i want to buy this suv in april or may of 2003..

    will it still be available?

    and most importantly..pricing..

    can i get a limited 4 whee drive trooper for around $27,500..arent they giving these away? i mean ive read $$$$ for an LS for like 23,000 or so..so anyone know what the limited is going for? dealers must want to pay you to buy this SUV and thats fine, i think its the best one of them all..but reality please..will $27,500 get me a fully loaded 4 x 4 limited..thx...eric
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    As far as I know the 2002s are all but gone, and the ones left are actually starting to increase in price... :(

    -mike
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    96_i30_5sp96_i30_5sp Member Posts: 127
    I don't think it's "too late" if you act now but who knows if there would be any new ones left in 6 months. Check isuzudealers.com for current nationwide availability. The Limited Troopers aren't discounted as heavily as the S models so $27,5 may be unrealistic at this time. In fact, I've observed a rise in the prices of used Troopers in the last month or two which could also be due to winter coming. FYI, they are giving over $10k discounts on S models, for example you can get an S 4x4 auto with TOD for $20,700. A reasonable alternative could be to look at program vehicles, they are significantly discounted compared to new trucks but are usually driven by execs and have full warranty left.
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    pugger1pugger1 Member Posts: 42
    My 2002 Trooper Limited with the tow package cost me $27,400.00 in July. The dealer in north Denver had 2 new ones and one demo. If you wait until spring you will probably not find a new one.

    With the interest and the deals the way they are I would look now. Perhaps if you were slow at getting it together and dragging your feet you could get a deal started and hold it off until after the first of the year. Down payment and or something.

    I was in Kansas City a couple of week-end ago and the dealer on about 65th and Metcalf in Overland Park had a bunch of Limited s. The salesman that I talked to said, "The transports just showed up and started dropping them off". They were really ready to deal. I gave some thought to trading again but came to my senses and drove away.

    I would do some homework and find who has some or one and start working the telephone or the internet for one. I would not wait and hope to find one in the spring. But, beware dealers may be a little tough at first, saying it is the last of the Troopers and they are really worth big bucks, give them your phone number and tell them to call you when they are ready to deal.

    Good hunting!
    Philip
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    savvas_esavvas_e Member Posts: 347
    ....you'll still be able to get them new in Australia! :-)
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    savvas_esavvas_e Member Posts: 347
    Have a look at the video here. A diesel Jackaroo floating down a river for what would seem an eternity for the occupants, and then still being able to drive out.


    It's a promo for Safari Snorkels.


    http://www.safari4x4.com.au/docs/video.htm

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    mkayemkaye Member Posts: 184
    http://www.safari4x4.com.au/docs/video.htm

    This is the perfect US Isuzu commercial. Show a couple in the vehicle floating downriver then driving out. Right out of the river they go up the driveway to the spiffiest, posh, country club and when they get out the couple are all dolled up in tux and evening gown for a lovely evening of dinner and dancing. The valet then gets into the Trooper and drives right back into the river and emerge on the other side to park on the top of a mountain.


    Goes after the hard-core 4X4r's and the mini-mall 4x4r's.

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    96_i30_5sp96_i30_5sp Member Posts: 127
    That video is just unbelievable! Thanks for the link.
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    savvas_esavvas_e Member Posts: 347
    I'm simply astounded at the driver's presence of mind to be able to get out of that predicament!

    If it wasn't for the snorkel, sure the engine would have been destroyed by water intake. But obviously this guy kept his cool, found traction and got out of it.

    A class act!
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    sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    Could a US 3.5L with electronic ignition handle such a trip down river? I wonder if only a diesel's ignition system could operate under those conditions.

    Has anyone been in water deep enough to verify how water tight the cabin is? Do the doors leak in 2' plus water? Mine didn't, but I was going fast enough through to not get water inside.
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    96_i30_5sp96_i30_5sp Member Posts: 127
    Mkaye is right, this video would make a great ad for the tough Trooper that Isuzu is known for in other parts of the world. I see so many pathetic ads for SUV-wannabes that are anything but tough. Anyone seen the Honda Pilot "Invent a Shortcut" commercial? Ha ha, the thing doesn't even have a 4Lo range but who cares, right? "About the only classic SUV traits consumers still want are the high riding position and its cargo capacity" (from Edmunds's review of the Pilot).
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    savvas_esavvas_e Member Posts: 347
    My guess is the 3.5 would die in that particular situation, snorkel or no snorkel.

    You may be able to get through upto the bonnet, if you had a blind fitted across the front of the vehicle and maintained enough momentum to create a bow wave so as water didn't have the opportunity to swirl up into the engine bay. I also wouldn't try it without a snorkel anyway. A petrol engine can ingest only a little water without suffering too much.

    However, this Jackaroo lost traction and floated away and my guess is the engine bay was full of water. The diesel might be able to keep running as it isn't dependant on an electronic ignition system, but only if the motor didn't ingest water through the air intake. Otherwise at about 20:1 compression, it doesn't take much incompressible water to be fatal to a diesel.
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Gas engines use sparks to ignite the fuel, unfortunately this means that a submerged electronic system would not work very well. A diesel engine however works off of heat, not electric, so once it is running you don't need to have electronics on to fire the engine. I don't think the submerging of a Gas one would work very well.

    -mike
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I had a topic started here on edmunds of "True SUVs with AWD and Low-range $22-26K" Trying to get some discussions started about the last of the real SUVs.

    Liberty
    Sorento
    Axiom
    Montero Sport

    -mike
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    bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    Not sure if Kia Sportage has 'AWD' or 4WD. It would barely hit the low end of the $22-26k range. While we do own a Kia Sedona minivan, I'm not a Sportage fan. Just thought I'd mention it.
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    pinoy99pinoy99 Member Posts: 79
    I went thru a water crossing in the Pine Barrens once where I could clearly see water on top of the hood.The turck is using 285's + about 1-1.5 taller OME springs, so the water is a bit deep. Legend has it that the crossing ate up 2 engines that year. The crossing is not very long but I could feel the truck 'float' a bit at certain spots. No water got into the cabin at all, so the door seal held. I guess it depends, how long the truck is actually submerged and if it is actually in motion(slow). I also think one might get water in thru the center console(if water is deep enough) before the door seal giving out.
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    No AWD, only PT 4wd.

    -mike
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    cwmosercwmoser Member Posts: 227
    Wouldn't driving ones Trooper in deep water even if it kept running increase the likelyhood of cracking the engine block?

    I always heard one must me careful and not wash a hot engine or put cold water in a radiator for fear of cracking the engine block.
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    zutrooperzutrooper Member Posts: 66
    My last trooper did not do very well in water. I never had a hydrolock or anything, but I did lose alternator, starter, Tranny, & clutch after Royal Blue run a couple of years ago. Several other guys off the wire lost starters and clutches. I belive one amigo cracked a head. Nnyway, we hit lots of mud, but I think most if the damage was donewhen we traversed the mud lines on the powerline. Some of the pics show wake lines over the front bumper. Mark

    http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/zutrooper/vwp?.dir=/Yahoo!+Photo+Album&.src=ph&.dnm=royal+blue+red+troop.jpg&.view=t&.done=http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/zutrooper/lst?&.dir=/Yahoo!+Photo+Album&.src=ph&.view=t
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    jrr2kjrr2k Member Posts: 35
    The list is short for SUV's >$26K with 4 low! It seems like a trend to provide SUV look with car like ride. I think I saw a commercial for a new Ford Expedition with rear wishbone suspension! The Jeep Liberty is certainly a real SUV with capable off road handling. The only complaint I've heard is they have poor on road handling. It's hard to have both.
    Did anyone read the reviews for "Mudfest"? This is an event where the auto press tests SUVs on dirt, pavement, and mud. Then awards winners in various classes. It's been all over the MSN homepage. Isuzu got completly snubbed. There were no Isuzu's in the thing. Kinda shabby if you ask me.
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    sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    That is the problem with taking SUV's offroad...things break. I am interested in getting a snorkel, not to float down river, but even for regular water crossings. I am sorry to say that I have swamped a motor, a snorkel would have prevented it, and there really was no other damage to the vehicle.
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I remember that day well sean!

    -mike
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    zutrooperzutrooper Member Posts: 66
    ALl of the damage that I was referring to came from exposure to the elements. There wasn't any true "breakage". Just a lot of muddy water in places that can't handle muddy water. I think the starter is the worst designed mechanicl on the trooper. The set very low and die easily. A snorkle will keep you intake dry, but I still think other mechanicals will fail as well. Mark
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Heard the alternators die, but didn't know the starters too.

    -mike
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    keepontroopinkeepontroopin Member Posts: 297
    Madelyn Anna born 10/29. Took first trooper ride on 10/31. She never cried once on the way home.....just another fact that Troopers rule.
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    pinoy99pinoy99 Member Posts: 79
    is definitely bad for the alternator which is mounted too low. Also, ensure that the radiator is hosed down thoroughly(specially the inside part).During a rainy trail run in Shamokin, PA an AMIGO overheated to the point of seizing the engine after multiple mud hole incursion. My truck almost overheated the following summer due to mud left in the radiator fins(eventhough I hosed it down good from the outside but not enough from the inside).
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Welcome Madelyn Anna - you're going to have a bunch of messages to wade through (when you learn how to read )

    Steve, Host
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The newest Trooper fan!!! :) You can give it to her when she is able to drive, can't say that about most vehicles being sold today...

    -mike
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    boxtrooperboxtrooper Member Posts: 843
    I read the PL14619 oil filter is 3.67 inches in diameter, the original equipment filter is only 3.15 in diameter. On my 1995 SOHC Trooper-S manual, there is a water hose connected to a oil to water heat exchanger between the filter and the engine. The hose fitting makes the diameter a close fit to the 3.15 inch diameter original oil filter.
    ..
    I wonder, do the newer Troopers not have this oil to water heat exchanger? Is there more clearance for the filter?
    ..
    The PL14619 oil filter rubber seal is larger in diamter than the PL24458 3.15 diamter filter that I use by just enough that the seal on the PL24458 fits inside the seal on the PL14619. Still, I did look at the oil fitler flange, and it is a bit wider than the seal on the 3.15 diameter filter, so I suppose the PL14619 would seal up.
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    96_i30_5sp96_i30_5sp Member Posts: 127
    http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/021125/autos_japan_isuzu_1.html
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    cknottcknott Member Posts: 61
    Boxtrooper,

    I can only say that on my 99 Trooper S model auto/TOD, there are no water cooling lines going to the oil filter mount flange. However, I remember seeing two "pipe" plugs in the oil filter mount flange. Therefore, it appears that Isuzu thought of cooling the engine oil when they designed the oil filter mount flange, and they decided not to for cost reasons or some other reason.

    Maybe someone with a 2000 or 2001 trooper will comment.

    Chad
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Maybe you recognize these brush guards?

    jurassic3k "Chevy Trailblazer, GMC Envoy, Oldsmobile Bravada" Nov 24, 2002 12:04pm

    Steve, Host
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Steve I replied over there, I think it's Jaos or Westin.

    -mike
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    boxtrooperboxtrooper Member Posts: 843
    Our boating trip turned into a land tour (launch time was 40 degF and wind the wrong way), with the trailer attached. So... We went on some mud two track trails and a washboard gravel one lane road for several miles. My wife was concerned about getting stuck and running out of gas. My 1995 Trooper SOHC with DirectHits did great. We were only going 55-65 on the highways and 5 to 20 mph on the trails. Over about 300 miles we got almost 13 mpg. I am happy about that since Trooper and Trailer combined weighed 500+ lbs more than an empty 7500 lb. Hummer H2.
    ..
    I learned that one thing to watch out for when pulling a heavy trailer on washboard roads is the lug nuts must be very tight. I never had a problem like this before. The lug nuts did not come loose, rather the beating of the washboards was able to move the wheel (wheel and tire running under a little more than max alowable load) under the lug nuts enough to grow the tapered bolt holes. The larger holes allowed more movement and made the rate of damage faster. I noticed the problem when fueling up about 30 highway miles from the trails. One painted while trailer wheel was black. The black was the metal dust from the enlarged no longer tapered holes. I used my two foot long racket to crank the lug nuts tight. I was in luck since there were enough threads left on the damaged studs to turn the lug nuts about three more turns to clamp the wheel tightly again. I checked the other trailer wheel, it was OK, but I tightened the lug nuts anyway to make sure. Now I need to get a new wheel and some new studs before the next trailering event.
    ..
    Future trailering will include lug nut torque checks in addition to greasing the bearing buddies and checking the air pressure.
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    jglasmannjglasmann Member Posts: 13
    I have a 99 Trooper with 38K miles that was using a qt of oil around every 2K miles since new. Lately its consumption has also increased to around a qt every 1k to 1.5 miles. I've always taken it to the dealer for oil changes and used 5-30. The thing that makes this a bit unnerving is that every so often right after the engine is starts a plume of blue smoke comes out the rear. So in my case switching to synthetic oil may not be the solution. Could it be shot valve guides or piston rings?
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    bawbcatbawbcat Member Posts: 118
    A few days ago when I started up my 98 Trooper, the TOD Check light was flashing. It stopped as soon as I put the truck in reverse and backed out of the parking spot. Haven't seen it do this again in the last few days.

    Is this a common occurrence? Anything I should get checked out?
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    savvas_esavvas_e Member Posts: 347
    See if you can get a check of the trouble code at an Autozone. It should be held in OBDII memory until it's cleared or reset by a workshop.
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    zutrooperzutrooper Member Posts: 66
    My trooper did that off road at uhwarrie it led me to believe that TOD didn't work in reverse.
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    02trooper02trooper Member Posts: 3
    I am a new proud owner of a new '02 S model 2wd. My vehical was drifting to the right when I bought it. Brought it to the dealer and they told me that is Isuzu engineer's intention for safety's sake. I.E. when the driver falls asleep the truck would drift to the right instead of left. Had anyone heard of this? Almost constantly correcting the steering wheel while driving is very annoying. Plz help.
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