Isuzu Trooper

bluedevils · January 2003

It's true there are no more new Troopers, but you can still buy a used one. That same poor resale value that worked against you during that lease, will work in your favor when buying a used, late-model Trooper.

You said 1998 SLX - is that a typo? I thought Acura stopped selling the SLX after the 1997 model year.

bluedevils · January 2003

paisan, I was looking at your site the other day and didn't see anything on how to change plugs on the 1998+ Troopers. Do you have anything like that buried on your site somewhere?

bluedevils · January 2003

While my wife was sleeping last night, I snuck into the garage to sneak another peak at the coil packs and spark plugs. No, I didn't leave a screwdriver in the engine bay this time, but I did run into another problem.

First 2 coil packs, on passenger side, came off no problem. No oil in the well down to the plug or around the plug. All I could see down the well was shiny silver metal and the plug itself. Good sign, I thought.

Problem removing the 3rd coil pack on passenger side, nearest the cabin. Removed connector, unscrewed coil pack. When tugging on the coil pack to get the long tube to release from the plug, the coil pack broke away from the tube. So in my hand I had the coil pack with a little black rubber and a small spring sticking out of the hole in the end. The rubber boot and long tube had stayed down in the well.

I fussed with it for a few minutes but couldn't figure out how to get enough grip on the boot to remove it and the tube. I ended up putting the coil pack back on and drove the truck 3 miles. All seemed fine. It looks like I haven't done any damage, but now I don't know how to get the boot and tube out of that cylinder.

Any suggestions? I was thinking about just taking it to a shop and letting them change the plugs and deal with this when they see it. It's a waste of $80-90, though, since you can do the job yourself for $12-25 depending on which plugs you use. It's frustrating and embarrassing to think that I probably lack the skill to change the plugs on a vehicle, when it's such a simple procedure on this truck.

bluedevils · January 2003

Spent about 10 minutes looking for this last night with no success. The illustration in the owners manual didn't help. I know it's on the driver side. Also, it's on the front driveline but I'm not quite sure what that means.

Can anybody point this novice in the right direction?

paisan · January 2003

But if you want to write one up...

-mike

bluedevils · January 2003

Does it sound like I can write one up? I can't even manage to check the stupid plugs without screwing something up! Any suggestions about what to do with the separated coil pack/boot?

serrano · January 2003

Go to the front of the truck (looking toward the back of the truck) and find the front differential. It's the big round pumpkin-looking thing that's a little left of center. The differential should have round steel axle housings coming out of both sides that lead to the half-shafts and eventually to the front wheels. If you look to the right of the differential, you will see the SOTF unit integrated into the tube leading to the left halfshaft (but you will be looking to the right of the differential). It has a protective skid plate over it. It's located just in front of the oil pan.

Does that help?

Tom

paisan · January 2003

I believe the one by the brake booster needs severel elbows to get it out properly...

-mike

breakor · January 2003

As near as I can figure, the SOTF diagram in the 99 owner's manual was made as if the vehicle is standing on the front bumper. If your 98 is the same I can understand your confusion.
To add to serrano's finding hints, go to the front of the vehicle. Bend down so you are staring straight ahead at the engine oil drain plug. Now look a couple of inches to the right. Next come forward of that position about 4". That boxy thing right there on the shaft is the SOTF. The fill plug is also the drain plug as best I could determine. You access it from the back.

Your coil pack problem is a new one on me. I guess your experience is a heads up for all of us to be careful when removing the coil pack.
As to what to do now, you might call the dealer and see if they individually sell the pack AND the boot/tube. If so that might confirm that you haven't done any real damage/give you an idea of the upside dollar cost of this situation.
You sure don't want to make the situation worse, afterall you still seem to run ok. Then again at some point you will have to change the plugs. Do you have enough room to get a good bite with some long needle nose pliers (e.g. one side of the pliers inside the tube the other outside)? If so you might try them and use a gentle but firm twisiting (kind of like you are trying to unscrew it)/pulling motion. I wouldn't twist/pull too hard as you might break the boot tube. If you can inexpensively buy an individual boot tube that might not be such a problem. However if you have to buy the coil pack that could be a rather expensive whoops. Just my well intentioned but totally untested advise. User discretion is highly advised.

I found the best way to get the plug by the brake booster is to use 2 half-the-required-length extensions (I think I read this technique here way back when). Namely, feed in the spark plug socket attached to 1 extension. Then add on the second extension and then wrench loose. Pull out far enough to grab the first extension. Remove the last extension while holding the first extension. Then pull out the first extension attached to the socket holding the plug.

bluedevils · January 2003

I appreciate it. Just printed them out and will take another look for the SOTF under the truck as soon as time permits.

Re: coil pack/spark plug - Did a 50-mile round trip tonight, mostly 70mph freeway cruising, and the truck ran fine. So I'm thinking/hoping that, though the boot/coil pack may not be intended to come apart, it still functions once it has been pieced back together (like I did). Therefore, I have done no damage? A call to St. Charles, as breakor suggested, will probably be enlightening re: whether the parts are sold individually.

There is enough room to play around with a needle-nose pliers. I may try that but was worried about trying it the other day - didn't want to make things any worse than they are.

breakor, what is the 'required length' extension - 10"? 12"? I've seen those lengths at Sears, as well as 6", 3", and 1.5". Don't recall any 5" though.

breakor · January 2003

IIRC, I used a couple of 6" extensions. Assuming my memory is correct, and if you are buying such tools, I suggest you go with a 6" and two 3" ones for future flexibility on other jobs.

Again, be careful with the pliers and your removal. You don't want to grip too hard either as that might break the tube boot.

You might want to try and find someone else who is changing plugs and do an install fest. Or, at least some real world experience on how hard to reinstall the plus, tips to not cross thread, etc. before you tackle this job. It just seems that you are cursed when it comes to repair lately and could use such hands-on teaching help.

ostaz · January 2003

When I bought my truck, it had almost new (<200 miles) Michllin 245x70x16 (standard stock size) in the front. Now, I need to replace the back (the front is still in very good shape, only 1500 miles on tires), and I like a few tires in the 255x70x16 size with more aggressive tread pattern for snow and ice. Would this create a problem other than I won't be able to rotate the tires?

Thanks
Sam

sbcooke · January 2003

I wouldn't. 255/70's are close to the stock size, but still some difference that could cause a problem. My fronts get cupped more and more as time for rotation nears. I don't think you can go more than 10K without needing to rotate.

With 1500 on the front, it is a good idea to only do 2 and not all 4 because the new ones will catch up very quickly.

jimmyp1 · January 2003

1998 Trooper S 4x4 SOTF (not relevant really, but thought I'd disclose everything). Have a new sound. Thought it was belts, but stuck my head under the hood and it doesn't seem to be. I suspect an intake manifold gasket, but did a search and the previously mentioned symptoms don't seem to fit. It's a whistle that happens mostly when cold (actually been in the 20's here in Houston the last few mornings) is rev related, and seems to go away when warm. I have no idle or stalling problems. Any ideas? I'm waiting until 75k miles to do the timing belt, etc. I'm at 68k mile right now.

Jim

sbcooke · January 2003

I had a rattle under 40 degrees that seemed to go away when warm in my 1999. It was from condensation in fuel lines? I guess? A tank of dry gas and I haven't had it since.

My point is that it could be something simple? The windshield gasket shrinkiing in the cold and causing a whistle? Maybe just a loose belt?

flyinlow · January 2003

Could it be alternator noise? I had a car that would whine more noticeably when the alternator was heavily loaded such as when charging just after a cold start. Cars seem to do many spooky things when it's very cold, especially if you're paying close attention.

jimmyp1 · January 2003

gas, belts or electrical. Actually sounds like someone whistling fairly loudly further into the engine bay than the belts. Kinda underneath the big plastic cover, maybe to the driver's side a little. Thanks for the input. Any other thoughts?

Jim

cwp2 · January 2003

I am running the original Bridgestone 245/70R16 with 20K miles. Went to Discount Tire this weekend because the cupping was so noticeable and the tire noise was getting louder. He says there is not much you can do, other than cross rotate and hope it will wear down. Anyone know of a method to remove the cupped edge?
I bought my Trooper 3 months ago, so I don't know how well they were rotated beforehand.
FYI - Paid $14,500 for a loaded LS with 19k miles. Thought it was a pretty good deal. What do you think?

ostaz · January 2003

What year and which color was it?

bluedevils · January 2003

cwp2 · January 2003

oops. Forgot to say it is a 2000 white LS w/tubes, hitch, bug guard, sunroof.

breakor · January 2003

I really doubt your tires cupped because of poor rotation practices. Nor will rotation now cure the problem. Like the shop said at most it might help you live with it.

Usually cupping is caused by a bad shock, wheel imbalance or tire imperfections.

cwp2 · January 2003

Breakor - Probably hard to prove tire imperfections at this point. I guess a balance and looking into shocks is the next step. What type of shock works best for a smooth ride on the highway? I probably have 20K miles left on these tires so I will have them for a couple of more years, unless the problem gets unbearable.

bluedevils · January 2003

I don't know if you could have done better, but look at it this way: you got WAY MORE truck than your < $15k could have bought in any other make/model. A 2000 LS (4WD, I presume) with 19k miles is nearly new, and has many thousands of enjoyable, trouble-free miles ahead of it. Nice acquisition.

sdc2 · January 2003

If you are considering different size rear tires than front - don't do it. It might wreck your TOD unit. And, if you have a flat on the rear axle, and your spare doesn't match size, you could fry your limited slip differential. 4WD vehicle need all 5 tires to be the same size.

sbcooke · January 2003

May not be the right term. My fronts get the inside squares on the tires worn more on the back than front, kind of tapered. A few 100 miles on the back and they straighten out. I have asked about it, and it seems normal and common.

breakor · January 2003

The shock diagnosis should be relatively simple. Do you bounce all over the place or have liquid stains on them indicating leaking? If so they are shot. FWIW I am very happy with my Rancho 9000s. Many people here have replaced their "good" OEM shocks with these.

If you have a shimmy or vibration even on smooth roads (rather than bounce) that is likely a tire balance issue.

bluedevils · January 2003

Just spent 10 minutes talking with Merlin from St. Charles Isuzu. Coil pack is sold as a single unit - coil pack/boot/tube all together. The boot/tube is not sold separately. List price $108.49. St Charles' price $92.22. I could have gotten the plugs changed for less than that!

Actually, there's a different coil pack for cylinder #6. Not sure which one that is, but the price is the same as for #1-5.

The problem is, I'm torn on whether to actually replace the coil pack. It sounds like it's not supposed to come apart like mine did, but it fit back together fine and the truck is running fine. I'm tempted to take it to a shop and see if they even say anything when they pull that one off and it comes apart on them. Do you think they'd just pull the tube/boot out with pliers, change the plugs, put it back together and not say anything - thinking either that there's no problem, or that they broke it and didn't want to fess up to it? Or would they tell me it came apart and advise me it needs to be replaced - at my cost or theirs?

bluedevils · January 2003

Twist or pull straight out? I was pulling straight out and found that quite a bit more pressure was needed on the first 2 than I would have expected. Would it be easier/safer to pull down by the boot, assuming one could get sufficient grip, instead of pulling from the coil pack itself?

breakor · January 2003

In general, I find it good practice to twist a little when pulling to remove something. If you have room to also grab the boot when removing the coil pack that sounds like a good idea to me.

As to what to do with the problem one, I certainly don't have a definitive answer. Certainly the top of the plug must be firmly connected to the wiring in the coil pack. The boot should also be in good enough condition and orientation to seal out dirt and moisture. If you have those conditions you should be fine. If not then get a new assembly. Alternatively you might also check for a used coil pack. If you can pick up a good one for $20 or $30 that might be an acceptable option.

The shop route also offers some benefits. While I doubt they will pay for any existing problem they should be in a position to know if the separated boot/pack is truly a problem. And they should not cross thread the plugs. Again this is a real possibilty that can cost some major dollars.

cwmoser · January 2003

Paisan, you link "Paisan's Trooper Page" does not function. Neither does the link to the "Edmunds Town Hall".

Thought I would let you know.

cwmoser · January 2003

I experienced 'tire cupping ' on my 1999 Trooper. I was told by a reputable tire shop that I should have rotated them religiously every 7,500 miles. My tires roared so loud that it was very annoying. I cross rotated them and the roar worked out after about a thousand miles. I have almost 47k miles on these tires now and think at 50K miles will be time for replacements.

bluedevils · January 2003

Is there any reason to cross rotate the tires, particularly on a newer Trooper, if there are no tire problems? I've always had my Troop tires rotated front-to-back, keeping them on the same side of the vehicle. Also never included the spare tire in the rotation pattern.

bluedevils · January 2003

Thanks for your thoughts. Yes, as of now the various parts of this coil pack assembly - coil pack itself, boot, tube, etc. are all in fine shape. Of course, that could change if I tried again to remove the boot/tube on my own. Since the separated boot/tube felt like it seated just fine down the well, and since the truck has run fine for about 200 miles since this mishap, my conclusion is that the fit is correct.

My guess would be a decent shop technician would be able to remove the separated boot/tube much more easily and safely than me, so I'm leaning toward just paying a shop to change the plugs. Maybe I can get them to use Champion or Autolite plugs so it doesn't cost as much as going with the ridiculously high Densos.

boxtrooper · January 2003

If your tires are cupping there is a problem. It could be an alignment problem. There are two adjustments in the front of the 1995 Trooper, one requires shim replacements the other does not.
Tires are expensive and an alignment check is not, maybe even free for the alignment check. The alignment labor for the non shim adjustment is also very low since it is quick to do.
..
I had my alignment checked for the first time at 135000 miles. It needed minor adjustment and the steering feels better, more solid, after, even though it was not pulling before.

leedavidyoung · January 2003

I thought I would share an item on my wish list.

http://www.corbeau.com/brochure/gts2.shtml

sbcooke · January 2003

most places consider the shim adjustment not possible...i.e. caster is not adjustable. This is at most chains. I was talking with my new dealer about it, and they do the shim as part of the standard alignment procedures, they are equipped to service trucks. Firestone's and goodyear places for example will probably tell you that there is only so much they can do, but caster (what typically requires a shim) is a non-adjustable angle. I recommend doing some research and a few phone calls before having an alignment done.

cwmoser · January 2003

Normal tire rotation should be at 7,500 mile intervals with the rotation 'front to back'. Cross rotating should only be needed if you neglected to rotate your tires and they develop a severe roaring sound.

kwamedog · January 2003

We have had our Trooper for 2 weeks now and have put 400 miles on it. WE LOVE IT!!!! I have to laugh though. We bought it at Tynan's (in Denver) and went to the other Denver area dealership (closer to our house) to get touch up paint. Well, we paid $17,400 for our 2002 with 8,000 miles on it (a great deal for this truck in my opinion). When I was buying mine Tynan's was doing a promotion for brand new 02's that included $8,000 off of the sticker price. So, you could get a brand new one for approx. $22,500 (I was still happier paying the 17 and change for an almost new one). Anyway, at this other dealership they had 2 new 02's selling for almost $31,000. I asked a salesman about the price and he indicated that there was "very little room to move." Don't get me wrong, I love the truck and in my mind it is way better than many of those other so called SUVs that are selling for over 30,000. However, I know that $31,000 is not the going rate. I can not believe that somebody will probably pay that price to get one (all because they did not do their homework). That being said, these trucks are very popular in Denver, I counted 5 in one parking lot today.

On another note, could somebody explain the relationship that GM has developed with Isuzu? Also, I am assuming that the thought process is that the Ascender is supposed to be taking the place of the Trooper. What a joke! It is $4,000 more expensive and a heck of a lot less good looking. Is it the same as the Trailblazer? How does it compare in price with the similar other GM version?

paisan · January 2003

1/4" difference in CIRCUMFERENCE is the limit for the TOD unit to work properly. 1/4" Circumference is very very small difference in diameter. Keep that in mind on different sized tires.

-mike

paisan · January 2003

I've been having some server problems the past 2-3weeks. I'm working on slowly getting the site back up.

-mike

cwmoser · January 2003

$31K for a new Trooper sounds high for those of us who know what Isuzu is going through. But, if things were normal, $31K for a Trooper would definitely be in line and probably still a bargin. I wonder if a lot of the blame for Isuzu's failure falls on the ineptitude of Isuzu America for not properly marketing the Trooper.

paisan · January 2003

On GM's tieing Isuzu America's hands on their marketing campaigns and MSRPs...

-mike

cwmoser · January 2003

I don't know all the reasons for Isuzu's failure but at my sons high school Isuzu Rodeos are very popular with the kids their and they think highly of Isuzu vehicles. My son will soon be looking for his first vehicle and all he talks about now is Rodeo this an Rodeo that. Sounds like the boy knows a good product:-) His second choice is the Trooper and when I asked him why, he said the Trooper was too big for his tastes. The brand name 'Isuzu' may be a valuable trademark in the minds of many young folks who will soon be buyers of vehicles. Too bad Isuzu is not a strong company because if it were they should do a market study and tailer products to this group of young folks.

boxtrooper · January 2003

My tire dealer has lifetime free rotation and alignment programs (shims are extra, labor is free). They recommend 3000 mile tire rotation on larger tires with more agressive tread to keep them running quiet. I guess that's to rotate before cupping can occur.
..
So I am letting them do rotations and oil changes which cost $11 since I provide the 5W30 Valvoline MaxLife or SynPower Oil and Purolator PL24458 extra large filter.

breakor · January 2003

Cupping is caused by an oscillating movement. That only happens if you have bouncy shocks, a vibrating tire or shaking (i.e. worn) suspension components. It is not caused by a constant mis-alignment in the camber, caster or toe-in (yes all three of these plus the trim height is adjustable in a new Trooper). Such mis-alignments cause other distinct wear patterns.

As to what rotation pattern is best, the first thing to remember is that you are primarily trying to account for front to rear wear differences. Namely, the fronts wear more due to scrubbing on turning, increased brake wear, etc. The cross X pattern rotation is designed to also account for side to side differences which should be minimal with a properly aligned vehicle. However almost all vehicles have at least slight alignment issues. Thus, the use of a cross pattern rotation almost always helps to prolong tire life.

Just my $.02.

nsward · January 2003

Thanks for the responses. Sorry, I should have mentioned in my post last week that I wouldn't be back until today.

So, the TOD unit is different than the SOTF unit. Does the gear oil in the front differential also lubricate the SOTF unit? Or does the SOTF unit require a separate lubricant change? If so, I missed it in the manual, and when I changed out all my fluids to synthetics!

Also, I'm sure this has been covered in the past 6500+ posts, but what's the deal on changing the ATF? No fill tube, and no dip stick to check the fluid level??? I had to find a shop with a special machine that does a power flush of the ATF. (I don't trust the dealership.) I did not drop the pan or change the internal filter. Did others do the same when you changed out the ATF?

paisan · January 2003

On TOD equipped troopers you have these various fluids:

Front Diffy
Rear Diffy
SOTF Unit
TOD Unit
AT Unit

To fill the AT you need to drain it and then fill it up similar to a diffy where you have to put the cap on properly while it's like overflowing or something, then run it for 5 min and check again. I'm thinking of adding a dispstick tube on mine from <98 models that had it.

-mike

nsward · January 2003

Thanx Paisan....Think I'll crawl under there and see if I can figure out how to change that SOTF fluid.

BTW, I like your web site....but I can't get "Paisan's Trooper Page" link to work. Is that an Australian thing?

Thanks for all your comments. What's your tie with Isuzu?

paisan · January 2003

I had a server crash a few weeks ago and still have to upload the rest of the over 1.5GB of pics and info to the site.

-mike

Isuzu Trooper

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