Suzuki Grand Vitara vs Subaru Forester vs Hyundai Santa Fe vs Jeep Liberty vs Ford Escape vs Saturn

suvshopper4 · March 2001

Hung, something tells me you like your Hyundai Santa Fe.

Seriously, Hung, I like the way you love your vehicle. Rave on. I, for one, find it endearing. I think you basically feel the same as most of us SUV owners, but you are not afraid to let it ALL hang out.

Life is short. Have fun.

ejp

sasquatch_2000 · March 2001

Do you work for Hyundai or one of their marketing departments?

hung0820 · March 2001

I am not working for any manufacture marketing department. I studied on automobile industry a lot. I am actually a webmaster, software technical and accountant. Nearly all of my best friends are mechanic (we sit chat and talk very often and I get to learn from them too). I do rather know a lot of information about Toyota-Lexus than most of other manufacture. I have driven Toyota for the past decade. I really like the Highlander and have test drive before I bought the Santa Fe. However, I find that the Santa Fe is much cheaper compare to "Top of Line" modern. I have brought one of my co-worker here (at my work) to buy the 2001 RAV4-L *I like to help people*. Hint* San Francisco Parking - Best SUV for parking and style and look too. I sold my 1997 RAV4 because I need a bigger car for my 2 childs and they both still on Child Seat. The RAV4 is not big enough. I found out that the Santa Fe is nearly the shortest on Mid-Size SUV but what I like because is wider than most of it competitors (baby seats). Still good for parking as well.

scattershield · March 2001

The title looks better than Forester VERSUS Santa Fe eh?

Last year I test drove the Rav and CRV. This year I'm more serious about buying, probably Sept. or Oct. Both performed well. Hills required extra punch. Both felt a bit small; Edge to CRV. I'm not a fast lane driver but neither had much zip.

I drove the Forester last week. The ride was smoother than the CRV or Rav. The Rav I drove was the earlier model. The Forester was quietest too. A 6 cylinder and 3 inches in height would be nice. I want comfort, a quiet ride, reliability, all for under $23,000. Santa Fe is next on the list. I sat in one and thought the interior was ok. Nothing special though. That hidden compartment below the back space is equal to the Forester, X Terra, CRV... Wonderful exterior lines on the Santa Fe. I like the Forester look too. And I love that Black beauty Nate.

My salesperson couldn't find the keys to the Santa Fe and after his third attempt I drove my Sable next door to Toyota. If Hyundia in Lynn, MA wants an outside opinion of who should go in case they have a layoff I can help.

Anyway, ALL vehicle felt a mite smallish for me. I'm 6' 2" about 230lbs and make full use of McDonalds drive thru on my way to work in the mornings. The larger SUVs cost too much. Prices are comparable for Forester and Santa Fe. I've read most posts, reviews, charts, magazines...on these cars. I found two mentions of a Santa Fe engine blowing but one sounded fake. Overall Santa Fe owners rave about their choice and complain about almost nothing. Seems Hyundia nailed this one. Forester reliability is granite rock solid. I started looking at Solaras but mid-size SUV is more "who I am" Wished I knew this better before I bought my Sable. And the fact that my Sable has so many problems sours my attitude on American cars...again

Keep the info. and opinions coming. Specs and data aside, some posters and postings are quite...colorful. I keep a bag of salt beside me

sasquatch_2000 · March 2001

I would not go with the engineering on a Subaru. The exhausts are expensive to fix, and the repair costs are enormous. (I know, I had one.) The Forrester styling looks like Princess Di's hearse. Otherwise, it is an OK car.

natescape · March 2001

Sasquach, style is a MOOT point. It's 100% subjective, and nobody really cares what other people think. Personally, I think they're sharp, and scattershield agrees (at least on mine). If the person likes the way the car looks, great, and if they don't great.

Scattershield, I think they're both fine cars and you can't go too wrong with either of them. I ended up going with the Forester over the SF for three main reasons: 1) Gas mileage (I'm an environmentalist at heart, and the emissions difference between the two was significant) 2) Proven reliability (yes, I know Hyundai is getting better and better, but if I'm dropping $20k+ on a car, I want to be sure it'll last to 150,000->200,000 without major problems), and 3) I found the Forester nimbler and more zippy (strictly opinion).

losthat1 · March 2001

LOL about the Forrester looking like Princess Di's hearse. It lightened up what has become a list of long and emotional posts! Truth be told-one will not buy a vehicle no matter how safe, reliable, powerful, etc. unless they like the look. I did not look at the Forrester because each time I saw one I expected to see a chef wearing his/her hat to work. If Subaru had built an SUV that didn't look like a stretched up station wagon I'd have driven it. Please all you Forrester owners, don't be offended-to each his own. Love the Santa Fe's unique look.

tonychrys · March 2001

"Truth be told-one will not buy a vehicle no matter how safe, reliable, powerful, etc. unless they like the look. "

Ahh, now folks true colors are being revealed, and it all comes down to what your priorities are in life. And "Truth be told" I think there are sharper looking vehicles than the one I bought, but I bought it because it was the safest one I could afford to protect my family. It's a car afterall, I don't have to sleep with it and I'm not interested in impressing anyone.

If I was in my twenties and single again, yea, maybe I'd be going for something that looked "cool"... but I'm not, and you can't put a price on your family's lives no matter how much "value" one thinks they bought.

Different strokes for different folks.

losthat1 · March 2001

Get a sense of humor!

tonychrys · March 2001

...I read this discussion. It's hilarious. But every once in awhile a little bit of insight and philosophical thinking can be a good thing rather than the usual you-know-what that goes on around here.

regards,
TC

participant · March 2001

I can tell what you think of them by the lack of discussion, but you're missing out on the biggest controversy in the history of automaking - the Long Column Shifter Issue. What issue has generated more discussion? I like mine, it evokes memories of the days of really unsafe cars.

natescape · March 2001

... on post 205. If you dislike the looks of a car, you probably won't buy it no matter how safe/fun/affordable/whatever it is. If I didn't like the Forester's looks, I wouldn't have bought one.

And, to be honest, I do like the looks of the SF better. But, in support of tonychris' point, appearance was VERY low on my list. Safety, economy, enjoyability, and a host of other factors were significantly more important.

billtung · March 2001

All car are not safe if u go speeding or acceleration 0-100km/hr in 8 seconds, or not a good driver....

All car are safe if u follow the speed limit, slow but no too slow..... not too slow..... 0 - 100km in 11 sec is not too slow.....

If u have family members on your car, give me a good reason why u what to cornering so fast & accelerate your car like a racer in city?

What I concern now is the look, the equips, the warranty & the price a SUV less than CDN$30,000, I still think SF is the leader.

If really go for safety I will go for BMW X5 or BENZ M-class.

My durango 5.9L is very good in off road too, u can spend a little more than subaru forester to buy a basic 4x4 Durango, for sure u like the value & the safety & the look too (Sorry Durango is out of this topic, but I just want to point out there are so many good choices in SUV market, a little bit more $$$ will make people turn their head to other brand, especially those rich man(They don't know car, but they have $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!!).

One of the weak point Hyundai has is the history they make cheap car like all the japanese auto makers few decades before. Japanese cars that time mean garbage. Ask your Dad you know, even today they all using different name to sell their Top-line models, (Acura, Lexus, Infinity.....etc.) Because Honda, Toyota, nissan, mazda also have history of making junk cars.... Why can't Hyundai?

For those people they bought cheap car from Hyundai 10 or 20 years ago
how long they expect their car can last for a couple of thousand dollars, compared same price like a used car...., why they angry when the car blow after the warranty period,... if it is me I won't complain.... because I know I paid what I get....and now I know SF is I paid less than what I paid........and I just take advantage to Hyundai special for their attempt to grap a share to the luxuary SUV & Sedan (XG300) market. Why not do it before they successed like those Japanese auto makers, before they raised their price!....

How do u think?

tincup47 · March 2001

We'd all be driving sexy sports cars instead of SUV's.

I agree that most people do buy cars that the style appeals to them, but other factors can be more important. I didn't buy a Forester because I thought it was the most attractive vehicle I'd ever seen, I bought it because I felt it best served my needs. Most SUV's look like either station wagons or minivans on steroids, and I find the distinctions between them blurry at best.

natescape · March 2001

there are other drivers on the road, ya know.

You could be the safest, best driver on the planet, but that won't stop you from getting rear ended or smacked by some dumbass running a stopsign or red light.

IMO, I don't want to gamble with the lives of my family. I factor safety VERY high in my decision-making, and (IMO) anyone with a family should do the same. You can't put a price on safety.

I don't think ANYONE with a family mentioned racing and cornering their SUV in the city. I know I talked about how nimble the car is, but that's not for driving like a maniac in the city - it's for getting around parking lots, narrow New England streets, and yes AVOIDING accidents in the first place.

And, in yet another attempt to get you away from the "bigger is safer" mentality, the Durango performs worse on crash tests than the Forester, earning a "Marginal" for the US front-impact and "Acceptable" on the IIHS offset test. The Forester never gets less than a "Good" on ANY test.

suvshopper4 · March 2001

billtung, post #213

I guess I am old enough to be your Dad! At least, I am old enough to remember when Japanese cars first became available in the US. They were inexpensive, but reliable. We did not see them as 'junk', only as small and different. The only real problem with them was they rusted out, I guess from the road salt. But the Japanese automakers corrected that problem fairly quickly.

Korea's Hyundai first came to the US market with a 'throw-away' car, the Excel. I think they expected to cash in on the Japanese reputation for quality, knowing that most Americans think of Japan and Korea as being about the same.

So now, Hyundai has to overcome the reputation of their Excels, at least with 'old dudes' like me; or they can target the younger buyers, and wait for my generation to die off. Maybe Hyundai has improved their vehicles enough that they are close to Japanese in quality, but I can't forget the Excel impression, so I would not buy a Hyundai. Plus a Hyundai still says 'cheap' to me, and I don't want to be seen as driving a cheap vehicle. Like it or not, in America many people form an impression of you, at least in part, by the car you drive. I'd rather they saw me as someone who likes quality and reliability. I DO care what other people think, that is just the way I am.

I do hope you enjoy your Hyundai for many miles and many years.

ejp

billtung · March 2001

"I reply, early Japanese cars in US were junk."

It is not only my opinion, I have been told this hundreds of time from all my senior friends, they are as old as 98 years old, also mentioning in tons of car magazines(you go to search in public library or internet). After 2nd world wars, who telling you Japanese make reliable vehicle? They just built their little cheap car from copying American car & dumps to USA & the rest of the world, they are no different compare to their Korean's counterpart, what we take advantage of these 2 nations is just their cheap labor & hard working for money at that time.

I am 40 year old, not too young or old, my dad can not afford expensive car in the early 60's, he spend his hard earn $$$ in 4 different new japanese car including Toyota, Datsun, Honda. All suffering rusting, engine problem, transmission problem...,etc. In 70's he go for British car...not until 1996 when the Japanese car had impressive improvement & reliability then he go back to Honda, but now he drove Chrysler car.

I hope u are not japanese helping japanese, but it is very upset to hear that you are so old(can be my dad), actually my dad is 75 now, are u so old?) but don't even know Japanese had such a dark period in their car making history! Actually it is OK for all auto's making countries, when 1st begin doing something always had some failures. But I totally disagree that your statement that "Early Japanese cars in US weren't junk".

I do owned a 77's Honda Civic Hatchback in 1980, suffering Hondamatic tranmission problem until I sell it for CDN$1000 in 1984, not to mention the guarantee body rusting problem for cheap Japanese cars.

You might not believe "you paid what u get", but I do firmly believe. What the Japanese auto maker what is your $$$ not your friendship, don't make them too strong one day they might conquer the world, & we all will work for them....

Give a break to our North American Auto Industry
as well as other new developing countries to complete with the Japanese, I sure it is a good thing!

suvshopper4! Thank you for your good wills,
I'm sure I will enjoy my GMC safari, Durango 5.9L & SF for a least another 5 years, hopefully then go for affordable electric cars, I really want that happens, Gasoline engine create too much pollution, what I want is clean air & quiet driving environment & slower but safe road conditions.

One last thing I want to tell you I'm not Korean. I'm a Chinese Canadian from Hong Kong 20 years ago.

suvshopper4 · March 2001

Don't get upset, son.

I was wrong, I am happy to say. I am NOT old enough to be your father (51 y/o)!

My memory could be failing me (ahem), but I remember Japanese cars first coming to the US market a l-o-n-g time after WW II, in the late 1960s. Maybe they came into Canada earlier? And I remember some friends owning early-1970s models and finding them reliable and a very good value. Maybe the 'dark period' for Japanese cars was before they came to US?

In answer to your question, I am not Japanese. I am an American purebred mutt. How about you?

I pay my money to the company that makes the product that I like and respect. I am not concerned that I will wind up working for another country. Heck, we are all going to be working only for the very large corporations soon enough.

I hope your Dad has good luck with his Chrysler...

ejp

hung0820 · March 2001

I love my Santa Fe Layout:

1. Chrome Scuffed-Plated on all of the doorsteps (when opens the door), it shows beautifully.

2. Putting the 8 discs Audio & Video CD Changer in the Club Compartment and still has the other storage bin hidden under the Front Passenger Seats but a plus on the Door Storage bin is big.

3. 4/AWD system with 60% torque in front and 40% torque in the Rear, but not important when it comes to the Rear Independence Suspension that really help on Relatively High Speed Sharp/Cornering Turn as well as heavy bumpy road.

4. The Beautiful Super Clear Headlight Lenses with high-tech bulbs that can be well compare to the RX300 and the 2001 RAV4.

More talks coming next week.

pro212 · March 2001

I drove the Forester. The Suburu dealer told me if I wanted a real auto for tough off-roading, get an Outback Legacy. He claimed the Forester is more light duty. Besides the only people who drive Foresters in my area are middle-aged women or senior citizens or people in car rentals. Best described as an "Orthopedic Shoe on Wheels"

I bought a Santa Fe for many reasons and don't regret it. But, I'd expect the Outback Legacy will probably be more durable and trouble free. But, the way the Santa Fe drives and handles, its looks, the shiftronic trans, 10 year/100,000 waranty---will make up for any difference in servicing. The Forester is like Forest Gump to the Santa Fe's Antonio Banderas. The Forester is like CNN's Candy Crowley to the Santa Fe's Jennifer Lopez. Sure JLo is going to be a little more trouble but her handling and body will more than make up for it. Right men?

natescape · March 2001

Hey "pro", your post was pretty amateur. Name calling is for teens.

If you want to use movie star analogies, I would say the Forester is Martin Sheen to the Santa Fe's Charlie Sheen. A better veteran actor who isn't as "good looking".

billtung · March 2001

The economic crisis in Korea was trigger by the Asia stock market crash few years ago, now is almost recover. There is nothing wrong with the support of the Government, 20 years ago, I already know Hyundai is like a Country's business. They not only making Auto's they also diversified themselve to building ship, steel making, electronic .... ,etc.

Japan! Same situation. Do you know how much $$$ Japanese government dumps into their economy to help all their auto & electronic industries? The answer is multi-Billions Yen.

I also read report say that Hyundai last year new car sales also jump almost by 50%.

Please don't always thinking the nightmare to continue your everyday-new's life. Let's forget Hyndai products which produce before year 2000. We are now only interested on their new & totally redesigned Santa Fe & XG300, (of course Sonata also has much improvement, look at the Crashtest.com for 2000 Sonata, u will found out 2000 Sonata has good rating.)
Again the Forester has been in the market since 1997, I am not sure how they make the judgement, but for sure they will consider the size of the vehicle. They may crash the car into the wall at several different speed, or hitted by a similar size vehicle on both side or back. I'm in doubt that they will consider using a silverado or Ford F350 to hit on the Forester?
For car/wagon base vehicle I also think Forester will be a very safe car along with their long history of model's safety modifications (Just like Hyundai's Sonata keep improving & now SF base on Sonata frame).I am not saying SF future crashtest result will be as good as Forester, but one thing very interesting, I found out almoust all 2000's SUV in the crash test also rate pretty safe! Unless u are a guy just want to buy a SUV with the best Crashtest rating, otherwise almost all new SUV should be OK!
The SF weight factor already rate excellent in crashtest. Some people don't like SF say it heavy like a tank (300+ lbs over Triscape) but less heavier than Xterra. Sometimes heavier has its momentum benefit when collide with another car with less weight.
Here is the explanation form Crashtest.com:
-------------------------------------------
Weight Class - Statistics show that if two vehicles with the same NHTSA full frontal rating crash into each other head on, but one vehicle weighs twice as much as the other, the occupants of the lighter one (2000lbs / 909 kgs) are eight times more likely to be killed than the occupants of the heavier vehicle (4000 lbs / 1818 kgs). However, vehicle weight offers no safety advantage or disadvantage in single-vehicle crashes.
Sonata is a sedan, SF is SUV, they are built differently, I am sure SF will has the SUV benefits over the sedan (passenger seating higher, plus the new addition of the front passenger's seat airbag disablizer & the 2nd generation safety belts system, I hope SF has a better than expected crashtest result in the future so that I won't drop my eyeglass!

tincup47!
Sorry, I might be wrong saying Hyundai scare Subaru, I should say Hyundai's is giving pressure to Subaru because they are in the almost same price range.
For Japanese AWD's SUV (Forester), Forester is the cheapest SUV I found in internet before SF.

Enjoys your very Safe Forester & Good luck! Remember don't speed

tincup47 · March 2001

Hyundai Motors is no longer part of Hyundai Group, they split off last August. I checked the Crashtest.com website and the IIHS gives the Sonata an Acceptable rating in their offset test, The Forester gets a Good rating. That is a very good site for people to check, gives a comprehensive look at safety ratings, thanks for making me aware of it.

scape2 · March 2001

Subaru has been in the 4wd/AWD business far longer than Hyundia. Their 4 channel AWD system is state of the art. The Foresters frame is not like the Hyundia's frame. The Forester would be able to take much more of a beating than the Hyundia.
As far as women driving what, more women drive RAV4's and CRV's than men. Toyota redesigned the RAV4 this year in hopes to get more men to buy the RAV4. Honda is also looking at a more of a style that will lure men into the CRV for 2002.

sasquatch_2000 · March 2001

It might not determine whether or not you BUY the car, but it WILL determine whether or not it is even on the shopping/browsing list when looking for a car. Of course there are other factors, such as reliability, power, cargo space, off road capability, safety, etc.. But, you still have to like your car. Hey, it is like that old moped joke.

p0926 · March 2001

Bill- Maybe early post-war Japanese cars were junk but very few made it to the states. Japanese cars first became popular in the states during the oil crisis of the early seventies. Honda, Toyota and Datsun (now Nissan) quickly developed a reputation for being inexpensive but reliable transportation. In comparison, they certainly weren't as reliable as today's automobiles, but then their competition was the North American auto industry that was at its nadir in terms of quality. Hyundai, on the other hand, didn't enter the American market until approx 15 years ago. Their initial offering was the Excel, a vehicle that immediately developed a well-deserved reputation for being a cheap piece of junk. Only in the past couple of years has Hyundai started to turn that reputation around. Personally, it's going to take a couple more years of owner satisfaction surveys before I'd be willing to consider buying one. And yes the 10/100 warranty is a good marketing tool, but who wants a vehicle that could be constantly going in for repairs? Regardless of who's footing the bill, it's still an inconvenience.

Pro212- I'm neither a senior citizen nor a middle-aged woman. I've also never seen a Forester on a rental car company's lot (lots of Outbacks though in the northern states). Exactly where did you get your demographic info? I hope it wasn't from the dealer who was claiming that the Legacy would make a better off road vehicle. While no Subaru will do especially well off-road, the Forester will certainly do better than a Legacy. There's also little to nothing you can do off-road in a Sante Fe that you couldn't do just as easily in a Forester. And while I'll agree that the Santa Fe would win a beauty contest between the two, my monies on the Forester in the handling dept.

-Frank P.

hung0820 · March 2001

I never said that I would race in the city, but what I was saying that I drove faster than most average drivers. I am sure everyone sometime will try to past the "yellow" light. I just want to share my story and the low RPM ride that I use on the Santa Fe.

My Experience Driver: I rather drive on the road with just my car instead of the crowd. Most likely you will get accident when driving with the crowd. Even on the freeway I do drive faster to get away from the crowd. To me, drive fast does not really mean you are in danger. Is all depend on the situation and make good judgment. I have never got into any accident for the past 8 years out of 11 years experience driver. 8 years ago someone hit my car but it was not my false. What is your comments on this?

natescape · March 2001

Sorry Hung, got you and Bill confused again. I was referring to post 213 when I was talking about safety.

ateixeira · March 2001

Glenn: sounds to me like that dealer was pretty clueless. Compared to the Forester, the Outback has less clearance and much longer front and rear overhangs. It's also heavier, and the breakover angle isn't nearly as good.

I say we wait until the SF is crash tested to compare safety ratings. Forester performed admirably in terms of passive safety (crash tests), but maybe the Santa Fe will surprise people and match those good scores.

But to me, active safety is even more important, since you could potentially avoid the accident in the first place, and the Forester does even better in this regard. Handling and manueverability help here.

Not surprisingly, Consumer Reports' Safety Assessment rates the Forester best in class on both of these (current issue for those curious enough). We'll see how the Santa Fe scores in passive tests, but they prefer the Forester's handling, so it already has the edge.

I don't need a moonroof. I want one. I also want decent power/weight for acceleration. To me, it's more than just about getting from Point A to Point B, it's about enjoying the ride.

The Forester's shape? Well, function prevails over form. The low rear window can look odd, but it improves rear visibility. The boxy rear allows big boxy objects to fit inside.

I happen to like the Santa Fe's styling, but beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. I've heard it described as an angry Pikachu.

-juice

solo54us · March 2001

Guys this forum looks more like a battle zone.
Everybody entitled to have personal and very own opinion based on driving stile, habits, wealth etc., etc.

It is no any reason to say that SF better than Forester or Tribute.

I am right now looking to buy SUV.
In my area nether one is available right now.
I was like to get finally drive test on GLS, but wasn't able to get LX (drove Escape instead).
May first choice is Santa Fe.
My second choice is Tribute.

I don't like Forester, CR-V and several other names.

My questions for you SF and Tribute owners:

What kind of problems you had face?
What mileage you already put on your cars?
What are your suggestions for a new buyer?
What is your experience with Hyundai's Road Assistance and dealerships?

Please share your experience and I truly believe it will be more interesting for all of us.
And Subaru guys can start similar chat on there own which will be interesting for them.

ateixeira · March 2001

This is a "vs." topic, so that's what you should expect - comparisons.

You may be better off visiting the SF-specific topics to get those answers, since there is a far bigger sample of owners.

Same goes for Tribute.

-juice

drew_ · March 2001

Heated discussions are normal in "versus" topics, but please keep it civil, and agree to disagree if you cannot come to an agreement.

Thanks!

Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

sasquatch_2000 · March 2001

Please please try to watch what you type.

example: "I was like to get finally drive test on GLS, but wasn't able to get LX (drove Escape instead)." and "What kind of problems you had face?"

This makes for very hard reading. Also, please use a spell checker. Suggestion: type what you want in your favorite word processor and use that to spell check/grammar check, then paste it into body of message on the BBS.

suvshopper4 · March 2001

Post #233, gripe

The quote and post in question reads to me like an English-as-a-second-language issue, and the writer deserves some slack.

I thought it was readable.

ejp

hung0820 · March 2001

1. What kind of problems you have face?
I order my "Top of the Line Modern Santa Fe" nearly 3 months ahead before I can get the color and price I want. Waiting and Patience is the best answer.

2. What Mileage you already put on your car?
I have about 3k miles on my Santa Fe now and nothing happen yet! The Santa Fe is go smoother and accelerate easy right now. The break-in period will help the car go even better.

3. What are your suggestions for a new buyer?
As you know! The Santa Fe is harder to buy now-a-day especially on the "Top of the Line Modern". Getting the GLS you will have a good chance. Since the Santa Fe have a good price range then it does not really matter paying a little more but you still live happy compare to other manufacture modern. Get the price list from the Internet and call the local dealers around your area simply use the www.hyundaiusa.com and locate for the dealers. Tell them if they have the car you want and ask for price and you don't really have to come in at all. If they have the car you want and try to negotiate/bargain the price and pass-by and get it.

4. What is your experience with Hyundai's Road Assistance and dealerships?
I have never even reach to this part but oftenly is depend on the area where you are from (this is also affect on every manufacture not just Hyundai). Most of the dealerships want to get good report and reputation and therefore they will try their best to stay on the "TOP". If you read the Hyundai Topic Consolidation then you will find more answer. However, Road Side Assistance are 5 years and some people get help from 20 minutes to 2 hours and all depend where you are. Most likely you won't find problem with the new generation of Santa Fe now.

sasquatch_2000 · March 2001

I think we should encourage anyone to learn proper English, even here on BBS systems. It would be unfair to do otherwise and just let them go on in futility.

ON TOPIC:
What are maximum cargo capacity (weight) of each of the 3 vehicles in this comparison.

ateixeira · March 2001

I was just stating what someone else called it, but that's cool if you like it. I'll accept credit! :-)

Their new models (XG and Santa Fe) do appear to be a substantial improvement from their past, so they probably will hold up better. We'll see.

The Forester doesn't have more power - it has less weight. That's why it'll use less fuel.

Let's remember this is a World Wide Web, so we can't expect everyone to write the way we do.

Payload for the Forester varies by model, but it ranges from about 900 lbs to 1040 lbs, depending on transmission type and model selected. IIRC, Consumer Reports states 880 lbs for the Santa Fe, 900 for the Forester, but those are only for the specific model they tested.

Edmunds figures are grossly inaccurate. They state 2200 lbs for the Santa Fe. No way that's even close to the correct payload. They state 990 lbs for the Forester.

-juice

PS Cars are required to display this number in the door jamb, so only the Forester (which is registered as a car by the feds) will reveal this info. The others may (or may not) list specific payload numbers in the owner's manual

billtung · March 2001

Don't! We have to break our language barrier, why go back to the past.

See because of the language barrier, the Japanese, German, Russian don't join us. We are so isolated .

Good English is not a priority, but just good for u to guess the meaning of a sentence (may be properly write or not).

Be iterate, the more u education u have, the more u should consider others people situation(Their mother tongue is not English).

sasquatch_2000 · March 2001

My mother's tongue was Swedish. When she came to Massachusetts, she learned English.

I know Swedish, but speak English.

Speaking of Swedish, I wonder if SAAB will come out with an SUV???

tonychrys · March 2001

Well, the fact that GM filed to buy the other 50% of Saab it didn't own back in January, the possibilty is very strong... in fact, here's a chance to practice your swedish ;-)

http://home.swipnet.se/saab_thern/kommande_9-7_suv.html

billtung · March 2001

Before I go on... I want to reply to all Subaru fans that all Subaru car are very very safe, very good performance in this class, very reliability 4 cylinders engine... OK! What I don't like is just the look & I think there are still many new SUV's choices out in the market still can provides adequate handling & good safety features(may not match Subaru but good enough!)

I have seen the April issue of the Today SUV magazine in Chapters last nite, I've almost finish reading the whole magazine, today I went back want to get my copy but guess what?.... All copies gone in one day! I Can't believe it!

What I remembered was the SF project pictures in SEMA show Las Vegas was unbelievable great, I love it so much than any of the SUV pictures I ever seen, no wonder why the SF special project had the most attention among the 6 different 2001 new SUV's in SEMA show.

Here is the link to see the SF picture in the SEMA show, I browse through all pics in

http://www.sema.org/show/semashow/showpics.cfm?base=433

But the SF I like is not there, only can see its side in one pic

http://www.sema.org/show/semashow/showpics/display.cfm?pic=p0002169.jpg

The Pewter SF on the right hand side is the one I mentioned! It show on Today SUV magazine in & out!

It show on Today SUV magazine in & out!

2 more pics of SF in SEMA show:

http://www.sema.org/show/semashow/showpics/display.cfm?pic=p0001860.jpg

I'm so proud that I had bought this "Angry Pikachu"(I like this name so much, heard the name from ateixeira, Thks ateixeira for this wonderful name! (ateixeira enjoys his Subaru so much than the SF))

The audio & the video features inside the show project SF projects is unbelievable expensive & top of the line. It means the guys convert the SF think SF can be one of the most luxury SUV despite of its cheap window price.

http://www.sema.org/show/semashow/showpics/display.cfm?pic=p0001917.jpg

Today SUV also has a 2001 new SUV's test, the Santa Fe test results is better than other magazine's test results. (Quite interesting find out SF accelerates faster than the new Rav4! But still heard people count on the acceleration of SF? For my delivery SF now already 11000km, on road everyday, still no problems, very adequate acceleration on city & highway, I find out my full load SF handling improves on wet & snow day especially on corning)

Talking about reliability, I don't know why I suddenly met a lot of old Pony & Excel (15 to 18 years old... maybe.) on Vancouver's road. Had taken pictures to prove, will post later! (My brother in law 2nd hand Excel still performs very well after he bought it 5 years ago, he is the one I consulted him about the reliability of Hyundai's car before I made my decision to go for SF.)

Those cheap people whose had ruined directly or indirectly these cheap Hyundai's toys should be reasonably be fair to Hyundai's don't go too far about their compaints (Be understand the meaning of "U paid what U get" in the past. Consider how much U pay for SF & XG300, forget about the non-sense unreliability term those non-sense people apply on these 2 beautifully made cars.

Remember! Every proven reliability & safety & high performance will make car price go up, it is a universal rule, unless the car had no demand on it or the auto makers do
not want to make more profit otherwise.

I believe Gasoline engine days is about to end within this 10 years. Don't rely on your expensive powerful engine too much, think about the high tech future, save some $$$ for your future electric car, the gasoline engine will definitely go to the museum like the Typewriter(VS the computer) do.

Thanks for reading my long .....long post.

Bill

losthat1 · March 2001

Tack sa mycket. Ne ar en snell poyka!

Sasquatch, I'm a little rusty. This may an example of how difficult it can be to communicate in one's second language! Don't be so critical.

ateixeira · March 2001

Saab will get a version of the Buick Rendesvous. It's on the same platform as the Aztec!

The 2002 Forester is on the way, earlier than expected:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/010329/phth019.html

No big changes - they made the cargo cover standard and added DRLs, with no price increase. Freight is up $30 but that's it. Also, leather is now offered on the S Premium, which will make a lot of people happy.

The flat price is pretty amazing. It really has not gone up since it came out in 1998. The 2002 is only $330 more than the original 4 years ago, with a lot more standard equipment. That doesn't even account for inflation, so the actual cost is way down.

It could be pressure from increased competition. Thanks, Hyundai!

-juice

tonychrys · March 2001

You're welcome... I think.

I actually don't speak a word of swedish, but being very resourceful I can usually translate anything ;-)

billtung · March 2001

Recently met a lot of old Hyundai Pony & Excel on the road, about 6 of those!

Why still has people drove it if it is a junk car & not reliable?
http://www.members.home.net/g7florist/sf/DCP00329.jpg

http://www.members.home.net/g7florist/sf/DCP00331.jpg

Why u want your car safe while other don't?

http://www.members.home.net/g7florist/sf/DCP00332.jpg

PS: I'm not saying Hyundai is good but at least not so Junk!!!

Bill

billtung · March 2001

1) http://www.members.home.net/g7florist/sf/DCP00316.jpg

2) http://www.members.home.net/g7florist/sf/DCP00319.jpg

3) http://www.members.home.net/g7florist/sf/DCP00321.jpg

4) http://www.members.home.net/g7florist/sf/DCP00322.jpg

suvshopper4 · March 2001

Re post #245:

Bill, There's an old saying: "One swallow does not a summer make."

May you enjoy your Santa Fe for a long, long time.

Nice photos, by the way (#245 and #246).

ejp

billtung · March 2001

Glad to know u enjoy the pics.

It is so handy to have a digital camera in our car, we can capture whatever happen!

BTW, What is the meaning of "One swallow does not a summer make." I don't understand.....

suvshopper4 · April 2001

For billtung, because you asked, post #248.

"One swallow does not a summer make."
[A swallow is a bird.]

Meaning: Seeing one swallow does not mean it is summertime; you need to see a lot of swallows to be sure that it is summer.
Seeing ONE old Hyundai on the road does not mean a LOT of them are still on the road, which would prove they were well-built cars.

In fairness, I remember that in their early days, Hyundai Excels were among the most-stolen cars in the US. Apparently, the demand for parts was great and the parts were not in great supply (maybe expensive too), and a lot of Excels were stolen and sent to "chop shops" to be cut up and sold for less money than factory parts. So that took a lot of them off the road before their time.

I was always impressed with how many VW Rabbits stayed on the road for a lot of years and racked up a lot of miles. For an inexpensive car (less expensive than just about any other car available at the time, including the Chevette,I think), the Rabbits held up pretty well.

ejp

billtung · April 2001

Thks for you reply!
I didn't try to convince people Pony or Excel are great cars, but just very interesting to see so many(about 6, in different occasions) on the Vancouver's road in about 1 week.

Here the road usually filled with lot of expensive cars, we ranked the best livable city in the world, that why a lot of good & bad rich guys like to live here to enjoy the rest of their life! (I'm the good one, of course!))

I used to be realtor before, but I give it up in December & work full time in my wife's flowershop as a delivery guy, I almost spent about 6 hours on the road everyday. I never see so many Hyundai old Excel & Pony before in 1 week, maybe I don't paid too much attention for cheap cars on the road before I owned my SF in last Nov!

My point is that if these 2 cars is not reliable than why those people still drive it? This is so expensive to repair a Pony/Excel because its market value. (maybe only few hundred Canadian dollars). We have a very tough Air-care program here in Vancouver, all cars have to pass the emission test once a year before u can renew your car insurance. Of course it(the Hyundai previously purposely cheaply-made cars) can not compare to those VW Rabbits, beetle, Toyota Corona or Civics(They all in market much longer than Hyundai's & They're purposely better-made but stay in lower prices to attract customers like what the SF is doing now)!

I think Hyundai auto is gonna to be more & more acceptable here now, For the Accent(CDN$12,000) I've seem so many on road now, I almost can see one every 10 blocks of driving. It make me remember the earlier stage of Honda Civic.

With the changing platform of Honda Civic & more expensive now, I think the Accent will fill up a large portion of the market used to be filled by the previous cheap & reliable Civic.

Question! What is cheapest Subaru's model available in North America?
Do they carry any hatchback model like VW Rabbit / Civic ?

Suzuki Grand Vitara vs Subaru Forester vs Hyundai Santa Fe vs Jeep Liberty vs Ford Escape vs Saturn

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