Toyota Sequoia

salm · January 2001

Thanks Cliffy1,
Now that you have explained how all this technically works, how do I get it
working on my vehicle. The Opeators Manual is terribly deficient on this subject.
I won't have a chance to implement these procedures until I get my 4WD/VSC problem
fixed later this week.

Also, why can't I lower the back window from within the car. I can only open it using the
key on the back door. My 4Runner has this capability, and I use all the time.

cliffy1 · January 2001

I would place money that your window lock is engaged. It should work from the switch on the dash unless you have the window lock engaged.

tdill · January 2001

Rruck1 - Thanks for MA dealer comments. I'd heard fairly positive things about Chambers. I pass that Kingston dealer twice daily (thanks commuter rail). They've had a black/gray SR5 that I think has been there since before Thanksgiving. You posted that you'd been informed about $2k below MSRP. If you don't mind me asking, safe to assume that's what you got?

We're in your neck of the woods (south shore) and, while Chambers is definitely on my list, I'm willing to travel around MA, CT and RI. In your search, any other dealers you'd recommend (e.g. McGee, Weymouth, Boch)? We're thinking about a late Q1, early Q2 purchase, but I'd like to get on the stick now. It's heartening to read that you and others are obtaining good deals and, just as important, are positive on the SEQ.

Thanks in advance.

rruck1 · January 2001

I was talking to Sullivan Brothers about the black Sequoia and was told that it was sold. It may be a different one or it may be that my experience with them is not unique and they are having trouble moving even the most sought after vehicles. Good place for a test drive though as there are plenty of hills and route 3 is close by.
McGee indicated that they would be willing to deal, but had nothing to deal with. I will be using them for service, but don't have much in the way of feedback on their sales.
Boch said they would come down $1000 from MSRP, but I was a little hesitant to deal with them anyway. I had a bad experience with them a few years ago when we were looking for a car for my wife. They pulled the hostage' technique on us and I practically had to threaten to call the police to get our trade in's keys back.
Attleboro Toyota seemed very willing to deal and was offering about the same discount as Chambers. The guy I dealt with there was John White. He was very responsive and pleasant to deal with over the phone.
No experience with Weymouth Toyota this time around. If they are the dealer I'm thinking of (on route 3A), they seem to have changed hands alot. Are they the old Atlantic Toyota?
My best advice would be to initiate contact with the internet sales manager at the dealers. Most dealers seem to have one and they tend to be more willing to quote prices over the phone or via email. If you get this done in advance and are happy with the deal, then all that's left to negotiate is trade in. Kelly Blue book was the best gauge for what to expect on trade in.

rruck1 · January 2001

Sorry, I left off the important part.
Yes I got $2000 off the Sequoia and what I thought was a decent trade on my vehicle. I went in expecting to get a wholesale value on my trade and therefore was not disappointed.
If you can possibly sell your current vehicle privately you would probably get more for it.
Remember, the sales person is as important as the dealer. The guy I dealt with was Bob VanWert at Herb Chambers. John White at Attleboro was good to work with as well.
Best of luck.

mdo1 · January 2001

If you're in the LA area and want to buy a limited 2wd for $2000 under msrp email me at uq615537@hotmail.com.

jcnew4whlr · January 2001

I am looking at SR5. Haven't seen much here on the sun/moon roof. Is it a good value? Does it enhance the truck? Is it noisy?

Tires also. Saw some early posts about going with Michelin over the factory standard, but nothing since. Anyone have recommendations or problems with tires?

This has been a very educational site, thanks.

slickrock · January 2001

You asked "Why shift into low on the transmission? If you are in D or 2, the transmission starts off in L anyway but will upshift only as you gain speed. By shifting into low, you limit yourself to the lowest gear. By doing this, the ActiveTrac remains effective."

Clearly the reason you shift into low is to gain the benefit of the locked center differential (hopefully with the help of ActiveTRAC)! If you could lock the center diff in D or 2 (by pushing a button), that would obviously be the better choice, but you lose the locking capability in those cases.

I think there is a lot of confusion about this (as we have seen on this forum), and some of it has to do with the nomenclature Toyota has chosen. On their Sequoia Specifications site they actually refer to four distinct systems:

Vehicle Skid Control (VSC) Standard on all models
Traction Control (TRAC) 2-wheel traction control Standard on 2WD models
Active TRAC 4-wheel traction control Standard on 4WD models
Multi-Mode 4-wheel drive with locking center differential Standard on 4WD models

I think these terms and systems are easily confused and interchanged, and probably noone in the world is absolutely sure how they really work.

Some of the Toyota Land Cruiser feature descriptions that I have seen is even more confusing, referring to "Active TRAC with locking center differential" implying (in any form of English that I have ever seen) that they work together.

I also went and reread the Motor Trend (01/01) preliminary Sequoia test report, and they said "you cannot manually deactivate TCS [aka Active TRAC] even with VCS switched off and the truck in low range. More than one hillclimb was accomplished with the gas pedal on the floor and a myriad buzzing and clicking as the TCS governed progress."

Maybe they had a pre-production unit that worked the way nature intended it...

By the way, re: "Low gear range on an ML" -- I certainly couldn't find any.

rruck1 · January 2001

I have an SR5 with the moon roof. This is the first vehicle I have ever owned with a moon roof & I love it. I'm pretty tall and usually can't afford to give up the head room, but no problem with the Sequoia. I have not noticed any noise issues, but I haven't had too many opportunities to open it.
I have the Bridgestone Dueler H/T tires and have had no complaints. The ride is smooth and quiet - handling is very good. I don't see any reason to shell out extra money for different tires. I seem to recall Consumer Reports rating the Bridgestones at the top of the list for SUVs.

nemos · January 2001

Hi everyone. I'm sold on buying a Sequoia and have been monitoring your conversations for a while. I was hoping for some advice. First, the best price I seem to be able to get so far is $1,200 under MSRP. I was wondering if this seems reasonable, or I should hold out for a few months and hope it gets better. Second, I am deciding between the Silver Sky and the Thunder Gray, but have been unable to see a vehicle in the Silver Sky. Anyone have any color suggestions - I live in the Northeast. Finally, I am a little concerned about people's complaints on the VCR system cutting power to the engine at "inopportune" times. I am trading in my 1998 Chewy Blazer which has been a lemon since the day I got it (it died and had to be towed after having it for one week and has been in the shop over 25 times), and am nervous that there may be a problem with the Sequoia. Could someone please discuss this issue in "layman's" terms so that I can understand exactly what is happening. I appreciate your input.

rruck1 · January 2001

If you live near Boston, please read my previous posts. Several dealers will do $2000 under MSRP. I feel you pain with the Blazer, I had a 1994 Jimmy that only lasted 15,000 miles before I had to get rid of it. I have had my Sequoia for a few weeks and almost 1000 miles with no real problems. This truck is very easy to drive (I was concerned about the size at first)and is incredibly comfortable. I was a little hesitant to buy a new model, but so far all is well.
I don't have any experience with the VCR, so I can't help you there.
I got a Desert Sand Mica SR5 and am really happy with the color choice. Like the silver and gray, the two tone exterior is pretty muted in this color.
Another good forum to check out is www.sequoiasolutions.com if you can't get your answers here.

oac3 · January 2001

nemos: I have a Silver Sky SR5 with Titanium-color leather seat and trim. The car can be found at http://www.tundrasolutions.com/toyotasequoia/images/members/oac/oac.htm

Due to a large number of demands, Toyota would have to build a lot of Silve Sky Seq's bcos this is the ONLY color that is monotone (int. and ext.)

If you ever buy this car, you will love it. Just check to make sure that during the test drive the only sound you hear are no more than 2 clicks for the VCP and Traction Control 'self-checks'...

lcd1 · January 2001

I'm sorry to ask this question which had been asked before but there seems to be conflicting and longish explainations that somehow didn't answer my question.

Would someone of some sort of authority on the Sequoia answer my simple question with a simple answer?

BTW, I think Toyota is not doing a good job at providing information on the Sequoia as they should. Their web site does not seem to offer much of an explaination on how the features on the Sequoia work. I've been monitoring this discussion just to get more info on the truck. Thanks.

shadowpop · January 2001

Can anyone share their views concerning the ride of the 2WD vs the 4WD truck when riding in the 2WD mode? Is there a difference?

rab4fdl · January 2001

My Sequoia is Chestnut Pearle with the silver trim and oak interior. I don't think there are different silver trims as there may be varying silver paint. If you look at the color choices at toyota.com you will see my exact car. It is gorgeous and elicits comments on the beautiful paint from everyone who sees it. Additionally, it does not seem to show the dirt as I feared it might. You have too look pretty close to see the dirt that is beginning to build up. (Much better than my dark blue MBZ.)

We did not get the Desert Sand Mica that we were promised and did use that as a bargaining tool for a little more $$ off MSRP. (Only because our expectations were not met.) However, in retrospect I am happy because Desert Sand only comes in SR5 model. I don't want the color of my car (even though it is a SR5) to be associated with only the "base version" at resale time. If resale time ever comes. (My 7 year old son has his sights firmly set on my car for 2010!)

As for you cliffy1, I'm sure that you are aware that there could be a plethera of reasons why the dealer you commented on could have had a Chestnut Sequoia on the lot for 6 weeks without a sale. (Other than the color) You are a dealer, right? I think that any dealer willing to deal would be able to sell these rigs with polka dots! Besides, this car in this "too brown" color is absolutely beautiful. (What color is yours, anyway?) And as I have mentioned, the chestnut elicits tons of comments every day. I doubt I'll have problems selling this one...I ever choose to do so.

Rosemarie

rab4fdl · January 2001

Is anyone having trouble with a big FAT blind spot on the passenger side? I notice that with the passenger side head rest (row 2) in the way I can't see anything when I check over my right shoulder when changing lanes. Are the headrests removable? I'm average sized 5'4" and had no problems like this with my Trooper. What about those mirrors too? They're collosal! I think a whole class of preschoolers could hide behing the blind spot that they produce! I find myself bobbing and weaving to make sure I don't run anyone down in parking lots!

Rosemarie

nemos · January 2001

Hi everyone. I'm sold on buying a Sequoia and have been monitoring your conversations for a while. I was hoping for some advice. First, the best price I seem to be able to get so far is $1,200 under MSRP. I was wondering if this seems reasonable, or I should hold out for a few months and hope it gets better. Second, I am deciding between the Silver Sky and the Thunder Gray, but have been unable to see a vehicle in the Silver Sky. Anyone have any color suggestions - I live in the Northeast. Finally, I am a little concerned about people's complaints on the VCS system cutting power to the engine at "inopportune" times. I am trading in my 1998 Chewy Blazer which has been a lemon since the day I got it (it died and had to be towed after having it for one week and has been in the shop over 25 times), and am nervous that there may be a problem with the Sequoia. Could someone please discuss this issue in "layman's" terms so that I can understand exactly what is happening. I appreciate your input.

btrader · January 2001

I have a '99 ML320 and it does have an electronic dashboard switch for low range. It does not have a locking center differential.
Toyota's. web site is terrible about info on the Mufti-mode 4WD. I called and em-ail them and those answers were no better.

partaimr · January 2001

I bought my Sequoia on 12/22, and that blindspot is the first thing I noticed. I find myself constantly folding down the second row passenger seat in order to see. I can't believe everybody doesn't have the same problem.

tbever · January 2001

I'm 6'2" and have noticed no problem with blind spots. I do tend to rely on the side mirrors a lot for lane changes over to the right lane.

re moonroof: I have driven with this open many times and I love it. I had a dealer installed wind deflector on the vehicle (no choice) and there is no wind noise at all with the moonroof closed. With it open there is moderate noise as to be expected but the wind deflector seems to keep things under control. In my opinion although the moonroof is about 1000 extra it is worth it.

fanman8 · January 2001

Anybody out there being charged luxury tax on the Sequoia? I have heard that some dealers are and most are not. How are they able to do this? What are the guidelines that govern this tax? Any info from some toyota I&I people would be appreciated.

salm · January 2001

fanman8:
Check out the following site. It describes when the luxury tax applies.
http://www.a1.com/ada/lt.html

salm · January 2001

Looking at the Toyota site, there is no Sequoia that is under 6000 lbs.
But as I understand it, all trucks are exempt from luxury tax.
I'm not the expert.

gottscdj · January 2001

Of note, there are many colors that are only available in SR5's including, chestnut pearl, sunfire red, desert sand mica, and blue marlin pearl. So at this point it is easy to identify SR5 models by these colors or by any non-matching fender flares. I have not personally seen a chestnut pearl SR5 yet but I look foreward to it.

dangsohn · January 2001

There have been many questions as the the price. I bought my Seq. last week in MI and was able to get it @ $2600 off MSRP. This may only apply to the limited; however, you can use it as a bargining chip if you'd like

tdill · January 2001

Thanks again Rruck1 for the insights. Boch always worried me a bit. That whole "c'mon down" schtick and the llamas grazing on his front lawn down the Vineyard... ;D...

You're right re the Bridgestone Duelers. Con Reports Nov 2000 issue rated them the top all terrain SUV tires. On a personal note, we had them on our Subaru wagon. I take the car up to Maine quite a bit and ran it over miles & miles of logging roads. They performed very well, but I wasn't particularly impressed with their longevity - or lack thereof. We had to replace after 35k miles (despite being rotated every 6k and checked for pressure religiously).

brillmtb · January 2001

I'm sure glad I let you guys figure out the 4wd system

.

Slickrock, I see your points but I have to admit I needed to read the comments over 3 times slowly. 4wd mag rated the 2001 models and mentioned some of the concerns you raise. Take a look.

I dont think anyone thinks the Seq can out 4wd SUV with locking centers and rear limited slip with low range but then again with a vehicle the size of the Sequoia why would you try. I think it is better suited to moderate off roading and winter driving with a large cargo capacity, smooth ride with good reliability. "toyotatoys", this is not a negative comment just an objective opinion.

It would be interesting to do the test you mentioned.

I dont believe the ML has low range and this SUV is even one more step closer to a Subaru than a truck (better handling, lower ground clearence, etc) so it really doesnt need a low range in my mind as it is not intended to need it.

lcd1 · January 2001

I'm still shopping and waiting for the right price on a limited. Bill Page Toyota in Northern VA quoted a price $2000.00 below MSRP two days ago but I'm still waiting. SUVs are not selling well in general because of high gas price and an uncertain economy. Hopefully, there will be bigger discounts on competing brands which will drive prices down for everyone.

drew_ · January 2001

...has a low range. In fact, the one of the lowest crawl ratio in its class at 2.64:1. When low range is activated in the M-class, the threshold for the 4ETS is lowered for quicker activation. In low range and low speed, a special ABS algorithm is activated to shorten stopping distances on loose surfaces. Here's a picture of the switch. Look at the upper left hand corner of the centre console, next to the radio/GPS unit.

Hope this clears things up! Oh and BTW, since the ML has 3 open differentials, low range can be used on all road surfaces up to 80 km/hr (at which point the tach is at 5000rpms, even with 5 gears for the transmission).

Drew
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tbever · January 2001

How did you post the picture directly to the message board (I am guessing you somehow inserted some link through photopoint.com) Very cool and adds a new element to these discussion boards!

rruck1 · January 2001

Sorry about the VCR thing, I'm usually reading these posts very early in the morning. I'm sure a VCR wouldn't cut power to the engine. VCS will cut power to the engine under the right circumstances. I have had this happen a couple of times, but it hasn't been a real problem. It has only engaged when I'm actually on sand or ice and in 2WD mode. I decided to treat the truck as 'part time 2WD' and leave the 4WD engaged all the time. Based on other posts that I have read this presents no problem and is probably safer in the long run. I'll continue to operate this way until the snow/ice and sand are gone, which in the Boston area means that I'll use 2WD the last 2 weeks in July.

fanman8 · January 2001

The info you posted was a big help. My Toyota Dealer just called me back and is sending me a refund of the amount I paid for the Luxury Tax. Thanks again for your input.

thirdsuv · January 2001

I find it VERY hard to believe that your
Toyota dealer ACCIDENTLY charged you a luxury
tax. I find it hard to believe that they're that stupid.

I'd be calling back to that dealer and asking
for some compensation for your time to research this topic. Oh... I'd go for about 10 hours at $50 and hour for a total of $500. If they don't agree, I'd think I'd mention calling your
states attorney general. Some people might call
that blackmail, but I'd say that it was just compensation for your time and effort.

Then to prove it wasn't blackmail, when I recieved the $500 check, I'd call the attorney general anyway. I'd give even odds that they
made this "accident" to hundreds of buyers.

Jim

salm · January 2001

fanman8: I'm so glad I could help.
It's good to see that being a part of this, actually helped someone save some money.
Or, in this case, not get ripped off.

For all those interested, I got my Seq. Limited in SD for
$3835 off the MSRP or $1500 over Dealer Invoice.
This is approximately 3.75% over Dealer Invoice.
It took me about 3 hours of negotiating before they finally made this offer.
It wasn't stressful. I actually had a great time negotiating.
I was only willing to pay $1200 over dealer invoice. I was fully expecting to walk away from this
car because I felt they would not come off their $1500 off MSRP price. I got lucky!

lcd1 · January 2001

I am gaga over the Sequoia after testing driving the limited version twice but the price still keeps me from buying. A friend recommended the Yukon Denali. I took a look at the specs and pricing and it does seem pretty attractive. The Denali has more power and features. Compared to the Denali, the Sequoia seems to lack the things that a $45K truck should have. The next step is test driving a Denali. Anyone with experience with both vehicles? Your feedback would be appreciated greatly.

btrader · January 2001

Salm, I'd like to know where you got that kind of a price. I'm looking and not getting close to that.

salm · January 2001

btrader: I'm willing to discuss this, but only offline.
Your e-mail is currently private.
I've made mine public for the time being.
If you could e-mail me.

cliffy1 · January 2001

Sorry about slighting your Sequoia. Colors are very individual and what one person loves, others will not. That is why so many colors are offered. In my experience, the darker browns don't sell as quickly as the other colors and that seems to represent national trends.

Lcd1, the short answer to your 4WD question is the yes, the Sequoia can safely be left in 4WD all the time. Your mileage will suffer a bit but nothing else.

cliffy1 · January 2001

The VSC will not cut power to the engine. The traction control system will. VSC is nothing more than a lateral skid sensor. It selectively applies brakes to one, two or three wheels to prevent sideways skids (understeer and oversteer).

cliffy1 · January 2001

I don't know what is happening in other regions but allow me to comment on what we are seeing in the DC metro area. Last month, we were taking deals at $1500 to $2500 off MSRP. The result of this was to outsell our supply. Right now, I only have two Limited models in the allocation pipeline and a few more SR5s. Prices will be higher this month. Lcd1, if Page is still willing to take $2000 off, you'd better not hesitate. Otherwise, come see me in Springfield.

drew_ · January 2001

I'm surprised to see you write that because stability control systems include lateral movement sensors, yaw sensors, steering angle sensors, as well as the existing ABS wheel speed sensors. Traction control is a component of the stability control system and as you said, if necessary, it will reduce throttle. Obviously it doesn't do this for no apparent reason though. :-)

Drew
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drew_ · January 2001

A picture can be inserted using standard HTML coding. However, be careful not to use copyrighted images. Also keep in mind that not everyone is on a high speed connection, so keep the images (and image size) to perhaps one or two.

Hope this helps!

Drew
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cliffy1 · January 2001

Yes, the VSC can reduce throttle but it can also increase it as well. Whatever is required to pull you out of a sideways skid will be used. My last post was a bit of an oversimplification because of the confusion between TRACS and VSC. It is the TRACS system that was responsible for one member slowing when he tried to merge into traffic, not the VSC.

grogman1 · January 2001

Salm,

I too would like to know the scoop with that pricing - would like to E-mail you.

salm · January 2001

grogman1: I'm willing to discuss this, but only offline.
Your e-mail is currently private.
I've made mine public for the time being.
If you could e-mail me.

looking27 · January 2001

I really like the Sequoia, but the price of 40K+ makes me question if maybe the Yukon may be a better deal,especially since it's the first year the Sequoia has been available. I drive a 89 Chevy Suburban 4WD now. I do like the space and power, however, it floats around the road which people say is typical for a 4WD. Is this typical with the Yukon or Sequoia 4WD's too?

jcnew4whlr · January 2001

I have found one dealer willing to go to 3.75 to 4.00 percent over invoice, but only on SR5 models. That's what I was after anyway. He says demand is still very strong on limiteds and he does not deal as aggressively there.

I'll see him tomorrow, we'll find out if the personal visit is as positive as the phone call.

drew_ · January 2001

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julie2000 · January 2001

Does anyone have any thoughts on how the Sequoia compares to the ML 320/430? I want a car that can seat 7 (including kids). Safety is a top priority. Thanks.

drew_ · January 2001

If space for 7 adults + luggage on long trips is a major concern, definitely go for the Sequoia. If not, the M-class should be suitable.

Safety-wise, they both have their pluses. The Sequoia is heavier, and hence that helps in a collision. It also has stability control (which helps significantly to prevent skids and rollovers), available side curtain airbags, front seat pretensioners/force limiters, as well as selectable full-time 4WD. There have been no crash tests as of yet on the Sequoia, but its cousin, the Toyota Tundra pickup has been tested in the NHTSA's 30mph full width non-deformable barrier test. I was a little disappointed at the 4 star (out of 5) driver rating, and the 3 star front passenger rating. However, I tend to put more emphasis on the IIHS's 40mph offset crash test. The Sequoia nor the Tundra have been tested for this as of yet. Despite this, the Sequoia would still be my pick if I was in the market for a full-size SUV.

As for the M-class, because it is smaller, lower to the ground - lower centre of gravity - and has a four wheel independent suspension (the Tundra only has front wheel independent suspension and a solid rear axle; good for towing, not so good for handling), permanent 4WD and near 50/50 weight distribution, it is a lot more agile and will be upset much less in sudden emergency lane change maneuvers (active safety), even without its stability control system turned on (it's on by default and should remain that way). It is even fun to drive with its accurate steering. Passive safety-wise, it has dual stage/dual threshold front airbags and side impact airbags in all four doors. There are also seatbelt pretensioners and force limiters in all outboard seating positions front and rear. Child seat tethers are in every rear seating position.

Crash test-wise, the M-class was very good in the NHTSA's crash test (4 and 5 stars), and received a good and best pick in the IIHS's offset crash test. Real world performance has also been very good, showing that the strong safety cage holds up even in rollovers (which seem to involve only '98 ML320s with no stability control systems). You can see accident pictures of a few M-classes here: http://go.to/m-class

Good luck with your decision! FYI, the M-class discussion topic is located here.

Drew
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Toyota Sequoia

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